Tosh The Traitor Backstabs Jeff Tedford, Backstabs Cal
This is an opinion piece that is not meant to reflect the opinions of the entire CGB writing staff. These opinions are mine alone, and everyone else is free to share in them.
In sports, it always seems to be the guy you least expect.
Cleveland has LeBron James. Boston has Roger Clemens. Orlando has Shaquille O'Neal. Baton Rouge has Nick Saban (okay, everyone knew Nick was a sociopath; he'd betray his mother for a weakside rush linebacker). But it's always the person that you least expect that ends up being the one who sticks the knife, then twists it for good measure.
We all knew the clock was ticking on Tosh Lupoi. We all knew that even as we made big recruiting victory after victory that Cal was going to have to pony up money to keep him. He was too valuable, too coveted, too sought after. The Bears would have to do a lot to keep him.
When he took the Washington job, it wasn't too much of a surprise. I hardly begrudge him leaving for the Monopoly money Sark was throwing at him at UW that Cal would have a hard time matching (and we're talking full salary, not public salary--Tosh is probably getting well-compensated by deep-pocketed Husky donors, plus he has a boat!). It's a killing for a defensive line coach, and he'll be in great shape for years to come.
Even if it was in-conference, even if it was intra-division, it might've just been an interlude. We'd have hoped that one day he would return, possibly to help lead the program in future endeavors. He'd done so much for us. Maybe he could come back and do it again.
But it didn't end at that. How he left the program, and how he's currently conducting himself can't be forgiven.
Based on what I've heard from multiple sources, this is a pretty accurate version of what went down.
Tosh was offered a job at Wash and he came to JT with the "my heart is here speech". JT went and fought for Tosh to get the offer matched. JT and Tosh have a meeting where JT tells Tosh how much he wants to keep him, how he is an integral part of what they are doing, etc. He says that he went and got the offer matched and that he wanted him to stay, but that he won't/can't get into a bidding war for Tosh and that he (JT) needs his (Tosh's) word that this is done and that he (Tosh) isn't going anywhere. Tosh assures JT this is over. Tosh breaks his word, continues talking to UW and gets another offer which he doesn't present to JT, as he has already been told and committed to no bidding war.
JT didn't find out Tosh was gone (by voicemail) until he got off the plane for a recruiting trip Tosh was supposed to meet JT on. They were supposed to meet yesterday to recruit and Tosh didn't show.
Combine that with the fact that Tosh is breaking the unwritten coaches code of only recruiting for one school and he is dead to me and I suspect Cal and JT as well. If you are recruiting and switch schools, you stop recruiting those guys... pass them off to another on staff.
Truly despicable. In my estimation, JT has committed a multitude of sins, but this fiasco isn't on him. No one looks rosy in this, but this is Tosh's doing.
You know what the best part of this horrible story? Jim McGill (who generally has the scoop) says that's the sugarcoated version.
I'll just say this: It's worse than the original narrative.
I get being underappreciated and all the ramifications that come with it but when you clear out in the middle of the night with no warning and are immediately in contact with recruits that morning when your employers don't even know yet and start not only recruiting for your new program the guys you recruited for Cal but tell them, "DON'T GO TO CAL?"
That and other actions make this an irreparable rift, imo.
Who knows what went on behind the scenes for this series of events to take place. Here's what I do know.
- Tosh was recruiting Shaq Thompson the night before he made his decision to go to UW, and spilled on the record that he was thinking of moving on to Seattle. Repeat: Tosh openly admitted with a recruit ON AN IN-HOME VISIT FOR CAL that he might've been interested in taking the UW job. I'm not sure if this is a violation or not, but it is definite sabotage; to do that on Cal's dime is revolting.
The next day he was on the phone with Shaq selling him on the virtues of UW. Who does that? - For those who don't get the big deal about Lupoi recruiting Shaq to UW: You just don't recruit guys on two different staffs in one recruiting cycle, not unless you want to be looked at like an utter slimeball. It's a dishonest and reprehensible way to do business that approaches SEC-level shenanigans. It's not illegal, but it's highly unethical, and it sends mixed messages to the kids and their parents. Ed Orgeron pulled this crap when he left Tennessee with Lane Kiffin, and the Vols lost a lot of good recruits. It's highly dirty recruiting.
If Tosh really believed in honor, he'd have passed the recruitment of Shaq by UW onto another member of the staff to conduct his own affairs. This is DIRTY. - That Lupoi went and visited Jordan Payton a week and a half after securing his commitment to Cal and a DAY after leaving Cal is a total snake move. Even if Payton isn't sold on UW, it might make him break his commitment to Cal, which is exactly what Washington wants. Cal might have ended up with the best recruiting class in the country thanks to Tosh. Tosh clearly wants to make sure that doesn't happen anymore, and will do whatever he can to break up this class and leave it in tatters.
After all, if Tosh wants these kids to follow and emulate him, what better way to do that than by deserting your commitment to Cal?
- Tosh did not inform Gabe King of his decision in any form, which would lead you to believe he didn't inform anyone on the Cal defensive line or defense at all of his desire to walk. No courtesy call, no nothing. Kudos to the players for giving thanks to the man, but this runs counter to Tosh's messages of loyalty and honor (but hey, plenty of time to talk to Shaq!).
- Tosh leaving Tedford out in the lurch on a plane to somewhere (and this is definitely public record) is just plain awful. Not only did it probably ruin a recruiting visit to a top target, I'm guessing it must've been done for Tosh and UW to get a head start on the trail. Meanwhile Tedford is left scrambling all day trying to assuage recruits that nothing's wrong, having to do a rushed in-home visit with a local recruit, then getting back on a plane to Berkeley all the while calling every recruit and commit to make sure everything would be ok.
This reeks of Sark's orders. That Tosh went along with it is vile.
- Finally, Tosh breaking his word to Tedford at that final meeting.
This is hard to stomach, because I always felt Lupoi put a lot of stock into his word. But it's clear that for him to straight-out lie to Tedford meant two likely options.
Option #1: He felt like Tedford and Cal lowballed him with his deal, and hurt by what he was given, reneged on his word and went straight to UW. Even if he didn't like the deal the Bears gave him, lying about not talking to UW shows a streak of immaturity.
If Tosh had any honor, he would've said, "No, I'm going to keep talking to Washington", Tedford would have had ample time to prepare himself for the situation, get a list ready and prepare recruits for the news, particularly a guy like Armstead who had been strongly considering Cal. This Brutus display reflects very poorly on him.
Still, that version of what happened sure sounds better than option 2.
Option #2: He knew he was leaving for Washington the whole time and spent the whole time milking both sides for maximum value on his deal. That would be downright malicious, and would've meant Sarkisian and Lupoi had been planning this for awhile.
Why would they play this game? Only one reason comes to mind: The active sabotage of Cal's recruiting class, all while Tosh was still a Bear.
Sarkisian is no dummy. Other than SC, who will get who they want, Cal is the only other West Coast power landing top recruiting talent (Oregon is a system school and generally finds recruits tailored to their system). Cal took a bunch of UW recruits last year and has lost almost every head-to-head recruiting battle with Tedford lately, regardless of results on the field. Sark wanted to strike Cal a death blow and unravel their recruiting class.
So poach their best with money. Take Tosh, find his asking price, play this game, then force this move two weeks after firing most of his defensive staff to cause maximum chaos for all involved.
Yeah. I prefer Option #1. McGill makes me think Option #2 isn't out of the question though.
(And I'm sure there's an Option #3 involving hookers and blow. But that would require a novella.)
Regardless of what happened, Tosh knew on his trip to Sacramento to visit Thompson and Armstead that he would be leaving for UW, and didn't inform Tedford during the visits. This is the mark of a traitor.
I sure hope Sark the Trojan is happy with his handiwork. Even Pete didn't stoop this low. He'll get what's coming to him in ten months.
***
The past couple of years, Tosh Lupoi stood for all that was good and strong about the program despite the on-field struggles. He was a young, dynamic Bear who was loyal to the program, loyal to the vision of what Cal could be. He'd be the main to lead our recruiting efforts, to build a new Cal football program that would contend for Rose Bowls. The sky was the limit for him in Bear Territory. The next defensive coordinator. The top recruiting coordinator. Maybe even head coach. The main who'd become the part of a new age.
Not going to happen anymore. Not at Cal. Not after this. Tosh looks like a mercenary, a man without principles, a snake in the grass. He's selling out the principles that made him a great figure for Cal Athletics, and he's disgracing his Golden Bear roots with his actions.
Perhaps recruits will still buy what he has to sell now that he's shown his true colors. It's clear that he has an effect on these guys and knows how to interact with them. Plenty of former Cal players stand up for him. I have no doubt that he'll be an effective recruiter at UW. The pitches will be similar (rebuild UW to greatness) and the interaction will be the same. Tosh has built relationships for years with these kids, and he'll do his best to get guys like Shaq and Payton to be Huskies ... or worse for us, not to be Golden Bears.
Still, all the Twittering and X-Boxing in the world won't save him from this one question. "How can we trust you with our son if we can't even be sure you'll be here a year from now?" He could've been secure answering that at Cal. No longer, no more.
I'm through with him. If you bleed blue and gold, you should be through with him too.
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Wow.
What a complete and utter load of crap. In every instance you choose to think it is some big conspiracy theory and that Tosh was out to get Cal. Did you ever think that maybe Tosh loves Cal and that the Huskies just made him an offer he couldn’t refuse? He likely struggled with it for the past couple of weeks. The Huskies had to make a huge offer due to his love of the Bears. It was an offer that most people wouldn’t turn down. They tripled his salary. They knew they had to in order to get him.
The Huskies scored 57 points in a bowl game and lost. That combined with the subpar play of the defense over the last three years caused Sark to fire almost his entire defensive staff. One he didn’t fire was D. Martin who left before the bowl game to coach with Mora. Mora has professed his love for the UW many times over the years and most likely was fired from the Atlanta Falcons because of comments he made on Seattle radio. Guess what they did? They immediately poached one of the Huskies defensive back recruits that Martin had a verbal from. It happens. It seemed shady but then you sit back and realize, this is Martin’s new job. He no longer works for the Huskies.
Having fired his defensive staff Sark needed to replace it. Of course he went out looking for the best talent available which is what I am sure you would excpect from Tedford. He went after the best and given the fact that there were restrictions on how much Cal could pay Tosh he went after him hard.
I don’t think there is any more to it than that. Sark had the job of getting the best guys he could find and Tosh obviously fits the bill after being named recruiter of the year in 2010. You guys will be just fine. You will find a replacement. I am sorry you lost one of your best recruiters but I just really don’t feel it had anything to do with hurting Cal but more to do with bringing a talented guy to the Huskies.
by bigtrain21 on Jan 18, 2012 4:19 AM PST via Android app reply actions
How about the fact that he tells people not only to go to UW, but not to go to Cal.
It’s not just hey, you should come to UW. It’s you shouldn’t go to Cal, regardless of if you come to UW. You don’t think that’s cold?
Why would he do that?
What would his incentive be? You think he struggled with the decision because he doesn’t care about the university. I can’t believe you guys misjudged his character this much before if you really think this is the case.
by bigtrain21 on Jan 18, 2012 4:54 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
What coach would let a resigned assistant address players? You guys would have freaked if he had.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
We would have? What was he going to tell current players other than, “Sorry, but I’m leaving, good luck, gonna miss you, take care”?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 1:27 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Peterson of Boise State is a coach who did exactly that
When Jeff Choate resigned to be linebackers coach at Washington State, Choate called all of his commits and told them that he was leaving. He told him that they should honor their verbal commitments to BSU. Choate went even further, he told Leach he would not recruit any of the players he was recruiting for BSU to WSU.
Choate is a classy guy and I am glad he is on staff at WSU.
by Coug1990 on Jan 18, 2012 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
That’s a classy way to go.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
This was posted in the DBD . . .
www.LosAngelesRams.org
CALIFORNIA ANGELS . . . ANAHEIM DUCKS . . . CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS
1920 • 1921 • 1922 • 1923 • 1937 • 1947 • 1951 • 1957 • 1959 • 2002 • 2007
by AndyHogan14 on Jan 18, 2012 4:26 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Will Heyward attempt to get the recruits to follow him to the Huskies?
"No, I won’t," he said. "That would be unethical. No."
www.LosAngelesRams.org
CALIFORNIA ANGELS . . . ANAHEIM DUCKS . . . CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS
1920 • 1921 • 1922 • 1923 • 1937 • 1947 • 1951 • 1957 • 1959 • 2002 • 2007
It’s like you didn’t read the bottom of the article at all.
Or this part:
When he took the Washington job, it wasn’t too much of a surprise. I hardly begrudge him leaving for the Monopoly money Sark was throwing at him at UW that Cal would have a hard time matching (and we’re talking full salary, not public salary—Tosh is probably getting well-compensated by deep-pocketed Husky donors, plus he has a boat!). It’s a killing for a defensive line coach, and he’ll be in great shape for years to come.
Even if it was in-conference, even if it was intra-division, it might’ve just been an interlude. We’d have hoped that one day he would return, possibly to help lead the program in future endeavors. He’d done so much for us. Maybe he could come back and do it again.
But it didn’t end at that. How he left the program, and how he’s currently conducting himself can’t be forgiven.
I read that part
Then he got into the conspiracy stuff. BTW, when Tosh took the job it was a huge surprise for you guys. We heard for the last week that there was no way he would leave. Plus, people were made immediately and before these rumors were started.
Nobody knows how things went down. There are all sorts of rumors that may or may not be proven true. I think it is best for you guys to follow the lead of your coach and handle it with class.
by bigtrain21 on Jan 18, 2012 4:48 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
"Conspiracy stuff" is only a conspiracy
until actual facts come out to indicate that they in fact happened.
Much of this is no longer conspiracy theory, but documented fact.
It's still a conspiracy
But conspiracies happen all the time.
Hey abaddon, want to go get Top Dog tonight? If you say yes, we will have conspired.
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
You insult my intelligence.
You would do everyone a big favor if you simply left.
"We do not seek men who will bravely lie down to die, but men who will fight valiantly to live."
"Winning is not everything. It is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."
-- Andrew Latham Smith
I call bs
getting paid by Cal and recruiting for UW is unethical. No recruit will ever believe a word Trash Lupus says again.
That’s what Vol fans said about Ed Orgeron two top recruiting classes ago
by Julio Nievas on Jan 18, 2012 5:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Lupoi’s methods are a bit diff from Orgeron’s. Lupoi had the whole halo over my head angel famil thing going. It’ll be more difficult.
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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In other words, he’s saying that Orgeron is dirty and underhanded.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
That is not what he is saying, even if a lot of people do say that. Orgeron’s approach is I AM INTENSE YOU ARE INTENSE LET’S GO KILL PEOPLE LESS INTENSE THAN WE ARE HOOOOORAAHHH!!!!!!!!
That is vastly different than Lupoi’s approach, and by no means dirty and underhanded.
TROLL ON YOU BEARS. - atoms
The difference is that Orgeron didn’t graduate from USC. Tosh was supposedly not just speaking from a football perspective to these kids, but also as someone who attended the university as student. He told all his recruits that they were joining a family.
Orgeron is passionate, but I’m not sure he goes about it from the same perspective or references his personal experience as a student-athlete with the university in his pitches to recruits.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:55 AM PST up reply actions
I want to believe that
but he’ll just say: I loved Cal with all my heart, but Cal didn’t love me. So, I had to join a program that was committed to winning, etc…
That rings awfully hollow, if you believe the stories that Tedford desperately wanted him to say, tried his best to match the first UW offer, and that To$h simply bailed for a boatload of cash. Cal didn’t love To$h, or To$h loved UW’s money?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:46 AM PST up reply actions
You think kids will take the time to research Lupoi's history?
Virtually all if them will have no clue how he came to Washington. And the rest won’t care. These are self-absorbed teenagers, most of whom are in the midst of their own mercenary game. This won’t affect Lupoi’s ability to recruit in the slightest.
by Jeff Nusser on Jan 18, 2012 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, I’m sure in a couple of years this will be ancient history. But for current recruits, trying to explain the switch, “I loved Cal but Cal didn’t love me” seems like pretty transparent bullshit. I know these are young kids and can believe anything, but you’d have to imagine that many of them, especially the elite guys who have smoke blown up their asses all day and all night, can have fairly well-developed BS detectors.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
You act like coaches don't switch programs every season.
Recruiting is sausage making and this is how it goes. Tosh didn’t go from phenom to immoral demon overnight. Nobody was complaining as he was doing his thing foe Cal with the stellar classes over the last three seasons. Nobody is demanding that all of his recruits be cut loose.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
How is that in any way a response to what I said? I’m sure Tosh has many great assets and skills as a recruiter, but at least some small part of his pitch was about being a Cal guy through and through, having gone there and been part of the system and worked there his whole career and how great it had been for him and the kids he worked with. That aspect will definitely be undermined a little bit, at least in the short term, though he has a lot of other stuff he can say. And the explanation that “I loved Cal, but Cal didn’t love me” is patently silly as an answer to the question about why he switched, when the huge payday rationale is sitting right there clear as day.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 1:32 PM PST up reply actions
Kids not googling somebody coming to their house? Ya….
by HelloBowlesHall on Jan 18, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Seems like recruiting is a game of gossip. This is a MASSIVE piece of gosip.
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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I wonder about that. I’m sure Tosh will still be a very good recruiter, but I do question whether he’ll be AS good as he was with Cal. He won’t be able to use the same narrative any more. His main selling point will have to rely on his coaching ability, and how this can help recruits get to the NFL.
Part of me thinks this figured into why he left as well.
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
How do you mean?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions
Why he left.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
I’m sure the money was a big part of the reason for taking the UW job, maybe the biggest part. But I also speculate that Tosh wanted to prove himself somewhere else to validate his abilities as a coach and recruiter.
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
Considering our history, I’d say it’s a bigger accomplishment to prove yourself at Cal than Washington.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Think about this idea for a second – given the way Tosh left, do you really think he believed in the program and the University the way everyone thought a few days ago? If he could sell you on how much he cared about those things (when in hindsight it looks like he didn’t really)…why don’t you think he’ll be able to sell whatever UW’s selling just as well?
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
"the same narrative?". This is funny. Relationships are not built on narratives.
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
You're a troll. Please leave.
"We do not seek men who will bravely lie down to die, but men who will fight valiantly to live."
"Winning is not everything. It is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."
-- Andrew Latham Smith
And an apparently ignorant one, at that. Relationships are all about narratives. You can’t trust someone without having a corresponding narrative about that person—a story that supports the notion that said person is worthy of your trust and respect.
In fact, one probably could argue that “narrative” and “relationship” are virtually synonymous. If I were to suddenly suffer severe amnesia and forget ever having even met my wife, I dare say that our relationship at that point is effectively over, with only the reality of a marriage contract and cohabitation binding us together. Unless I were to recover my memory (i.e., my narrative of her and of us), then the only hope for our marriage would be to start an entirely new narrative/relationship from scratch.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jan 18, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions
LOLWUT
Relationships are not built on narratives.
You have got to be kidding me.
TROLL ON YOU BEARS. - atoms
I take back what I said about UW education. They need to spend less money on boats and Jumbacos and more money on graduating students that aren’t idiots.
Maybe cliffnotes are not you're thing
Sounds like difference of opinion. Narratives are stories that have bias, which you have. Relationships are usually built on empathy, which most narratives lack.
WHO IS THING
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
ARE YOU FOLLOWING ME NOW?
It’s not my fault!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
The guy played Cal and Tedford.
If it was all legit, there would be none of this sneaking-off-in-the-middle-of-the-night bs.
Yeah, I tend to agree. He would have given Tedford the heads-up. “Hey, you know Coach T, I appreciate your effort to match the latest offer, but I just got another offer from the Huskies and it’s way above and beyond anything I could possibly have expected, and it’s way too good to pass up, so I think I have to take it.”
Instead, he flakes on a recruiting trip at the last second, lets Tedford know via voicemail, and immediately goes to work on Shaq and Payton.
So fucking shady.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
I love this. Exposé the traitors, and let the chips fall where they may.
Sark couldn’t recruit to UW. He threw 30 pieces of silver at Tosh to try to steal our programs momentum.
Now, recruits and their parents have a VERY simple choice to make:
Who do you trust? What kind of people do you want to entrust the most import 4 years of your life?
If they like Sark and Tosh and what’s going on up there, by all means go.
If they want an education from a University full of kids who couldn’t get into Cal, good for you. I’m sure things will work out.
And don’t worry… I know in my heart, just like Tedford at Cal, Sark and staff will be there coaching for decades to come. (cough)
Go Bears
Couldn't get into Cal? Now THAT is funny.
Just go ask your DT Deandre Coleman who went to high school THREE MILES from Husky Stadium.
UW wouldn’t admit him, but Cal/Tedford did.
Or, did you forget about Tedford begging upper campus to lower entrance requirements so Cal could be competitive, then threatening to quit over it.
What did the grand school of Cal do? Accepted JC credits and created basic programs like “physical education” that were crediting earning, thus keeping athlete-students eligible.
While I’ll NEVER knock a Cal degree, it’s a HELL OF A LOT EASIER for a football or basketball student-athlete to get into Cal than UW. In fact, it’s why Sark has all but abandoned recruiting junior college players to UW; they are RARELY admitted.
Get the facts before making clueless claims.
by gone-shootin on Jan 18, 2012 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
ucla called, they want their baseless, bullshit excuses back
UW wouldn’t admit him, but Cal/Tedford did.
Or, did you forget about Tedford begging upper campus to lower entrance requirements so Cal could be competitive, then threatening to quit over it.
…
While I’ll NEVER knock a Cal degree, it’s a HELL OF A LOT EASIER for a football or basketball student-athlete to get into Cal than UW. In fact, it’s why Sark has all but abandoned recruiting junior college players to UW; they are RARELY admitted.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Dead on!
The UW lost it’s top recruiter in Martin when he followed Mora to the Bruins and we lost our OC to Alabama. If anything the UW had the greater coaching loss yet do you hear anyone on the UW blogs shouting doom and gloom? Sark got up off his ass and retooled his entire staff in less than three weeks. From what I hear from all of you CAL fans is that Tedford has no ability to do the same? Come on people, Tedford has shown himself to be a great coach who is able to pull in great talent. Do you think he lost that overnight? You’ll be up and running in a couple of weeks just like the Dawgs. We may end up couple of your recruits but that happens every year. You’ve done it to us in the past and we’ve done the same. Life goes on.
Dude, if you think this is all just about a coach moving on, you’ve very much misinterpreted the situation. If Clancy was hired for an NFL job, nobody would be reacting this way. There’s a whole lot more to it than that.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
No difference. Martin pulled a number of recruits with him when he went with Mora to UCLA. He was our top recruiter and left for more money and more responsibility with Mora who by the way is a UW alum and lost his job with the Falcons because he voiced on a radio show that his dream job would be coaching the Huskies. This after he had just taken the Falcons to the Super Bowl. Nussmeire just left the UW to take the Offensive Coordinator position at Alabama. Success opens up opportunity in any business. To tear someone down because they moved on to a better position in life is simply ridiculous. Everyone on your staff came from staff’s at other schools. Are they all horrible people?
Martin pulled a number of recruits with him when he went with Mora to UCLA
If true, it’s scummy. It’s much worse if he was saying negative things about the staff/school he just left to recruits. It appears Tosh did that. It’s also harder to get over when it’s an amazing recruiting class and he’s trying to steal the likes of Shaq.
To tear someone down because they moved on to a better position in life is simply ridiculous.
Obviously. However, there’s a right way to leave and a wrong way. We’re getting pretty good info at this point that Tosh left in the worst way possible – in a way deliberately meant to hurt the organization he’s leaving.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
More revelations about academics...
After doing some research…
While CAL is the #1 public academic institution, CAL is #11 in the PAC out of 12 programs for actually graduating football players! What! I was researching to do some damage control and get us on track again! Then i discovered the UW has 12 full time academic advisory staff for 105 football players, and CAL has 3…This is our commitment to academics!!!!!
How deep does this really go!
No Conspiracy or Hand Wringing Required
Tosh landed a top 5 class. That is worth $1.5 million over three years. He earned it. Add up ticket sales, BCS appearances, national TV, and then repeat after me Jeff and Sandy, “Tosh, we are totally committed to keeping you at Cal and will match any offer.”
That is how you show loyalty, fill a $300 million stadium, win, and make money (or avoid losing it in an empty stadium at 6-6 again). Cal has a window of SC sanctions to amass talent, and this is how we capitalize?
Epic fail by the athletic department in understanding their most profitable product. Talent wins, and sells.
by DancingBear96 on Jan 19, 2012 5:25 AM PST via iPhone app up reply actions
I would agree 100% with this ...
… if we were speaking of the NFL.
While I appreciate that major college football is a “business”, it is still not a total charade (at least not yet) that it is placed within an institution of higher learning, and a public one at that, as well as within one of largest, most diverse Athletics Departments in the country. Football will always be King, but there are reasonable limits to just how much wealth the King can flaunt—even if said King “earns” it through ticket sales, TV contracts, etc..
I will always be a Cal alum first, and a Cal fan second, and I would never want my football team to adopt a win-at-all-costs attitude. If this dooms Cal football to eternal mediocrity on the field, at least in terms of wins and losses, then so be it.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jan 19, 2012 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
...We are speaking about the NFL...
If we are talking about BCS bowls, beating Stanford, (more than our share), and USC…We are talking the NFL caliber player…Don’t kid yourself…
Thanks for posting this. There’s one thing I was sad you didn’t mention. Tosh gets a bonus for every 5* commit he brings to UW. These recruits, including Shaq, are literally just money to him now.
Sounds like another rumor to me...
I have yet to see that verified although I don’t exactly see what is wrong with it.
by bigtrain21 on Jan 18, 2012 4:51 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
If you mean the 5* clause...
I agree with you (incentive clauses are par for the course in all results oriented contracts). If you mean to say you dont’ see issues with how Tosh is leaving town…well, I just hope that isn’t what you are saying
5* clause
I definitely can understand why you guys are angry and hurt that he left and I imagine it was a tough decision for him.
I just think it is really getting out of hand.
by bigtrain21 on Jan 18, 2012 4:58 AM PST via Android app up reply actions
I don't think people are hurt he left
Most commenters seem to not blame the guy for getting paid and wanting to reunite with his pal Wilcox.
But folks are totally justified for indignation at the way he reportedly did it. Pretty classless and, in some cases, downright unethical. Even as a (I presume) Husky fan, you can’t defend some of his actions.
Cal was a good school and starting point for Tosh. I would expect more class on the way out.
by Pac10Bear on Jan 18, 2012 5:19 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
My question is: Is there ever a good time to leave?
What if Tosh left after signing day, or before the season started… He’s going to tell recruits regardless that he’s gonna stay for their 3-4 years.
by Julio Nievas on Jan 18, 2012 6:03 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Timing isn't the problem...
…though it sure isn’t great. And you are right, any time he left would have its own issues (e.g., post signing day = you knowingly lied to recruits). Further, Sark approached him so Tosh didn’t control this. My guess is that Sark turned up the pressure with an exploding offer.
Who knows how it all went down. I just hope it isn’t as represented in some of this article’s more salacious claims. That would be bad form especially from someone who is so passionate about Cal.
And life goes on…
It seems that dawg fans like you
are being willfully blind to the shady part of this whole ordeal which appear to be clearly outlined above.
An USC fan?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
OMG! I made a typo! ON THE INTERNET! You may now heap blame the royal family, atoms.
CGB: The Strangest Blog
Will do! hehe
For the record, I didn’t think it was a typo, since you rarely make them. I thought you were making… wait for it… a conscious stylistic choice :)
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
He didn't just wake up this week and decide to go to UW
It had to be in his mind all while he was recruiting these past weeks and months. It appears as though he was recruiting players to “his team,” not to UC Berkeley.
But really, the guy was an American studies major who became a college football recruiter… not exactly the resume of the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to UC Berkeley alum.
But really, the guy was an American studies major who became a college football recruiter… not exactly the resume of the cream-of-the-crop when it comes to UC Berkeley alum.
irrelevant to and unnecessary.
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
by ikoolykedat on Jan 18, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Defend his actions? You mean the rumors an innuendos being spread by those who are the most emotionally attached to the situation?
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
You're a troll. Please leave.
"We do not seek men who will bravely lie down to die, but men who will fight valiantly to live."
"Winning is not everything. It is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."
-- Andrew Latham Smith
Of course you think it's getting out of hand....
….it is in your interest now to conduct damage control, as it is in our interests. The only thing we have left are the facts, which are on our side. You have what you wanted, so kindly phuck off.
Does he tell the Parents?
Bonus- Is he telling the family “if you sign with UW I get to put $10K in my pocket”?
by MV Bear on Jan 18, 2012 7:13 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
etc
can’t nec blame the guy 100% though…hallmark of a man who’s had an injustice done to him and wanted it reversed (crampgate). In addition, no smart man accepts a ‘final’ offer when suitors continue to raise the stakes.
I do think the shaq recruitment is unethical though.
Sark is smart. Sees that all the former SC recruits were headed to Cal so he tried he killed two birds: trying to prevent a new dominant foe to emerge and build a depth of talent in recruiting. I just hope it backfires on him though.
by rileyslaststand on Jan 18, 2012 4:42 AM PST reply actions
As Avi mentioned, I think many fans sort of understand why he left (whether it was for the money or because he felt wronged by crampgate). It’s the supposed extra ‘F YOU’ to Tedford and the program that’s now coming to light that is making the calmest of Bears angry at him.
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
by ikoolykedat on Jan 18, 2012 7:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
If he was that offended over injurygate
He should’ve left after last season.
It’s not excuse to f*ck over Cal in the harshest way possible and use these scorched earth tactics.
He could have resigned at the time if he thought he was being unfairly scapegoated. And like, I don’t get what the outrage is. He was suspended a game. It was a total slap on the wrist, more of a show punishment than anything else.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
Agree
Hard for me to say, but the notion that he was “thrown under the bus” just seems excessive.
Should JT have stepped up and taken the blame? Yeah, probably. I don’t even remember the full context of what was said publicly.
Barely on topic...
…..but I think they all should have “no commented” the story to death.
What I think was the mistake was when Tedford said he was not going to get into a bidding war for Tosh. Did JT think that if Cal matched UDub’s initial offer that’d be the end of it? Of course UDub was going to come back with a better offer whether or not Tosh said he was no longer interested and for all we knew Tosh told them no a few times before the offer became too good to pass up. It was naive of Tedford to think that a bidding war wasn’t going to happen.
Shame on Tedford for not coming up with any money in the budget to keep a rising talent like Tosh around (or alternatively shame on Sandy Barbor for not giving Tedford enough of a budget to keep rising talents like Tosh around (or another alternative shame on the University for not giving the Athletic Department enough…well hell you can actually stretch out the blame a lot if you wanted to; we just didn’t have the money to keep Tosh here, end of story)). You can’t fault the guy for taking a hire payday even if he at one point said he wouldn’t.
I think you are being a little harsh on JT
I think he was telling Tosh that he could not win in a bidding war but that if matching the offer was what he needed to stay (and where Tosh professed he really wanted to be) he would go to bat and get him money. IOW, if this was about maximizing salary, then be on your way with my best wishes. If not, then let me see what I can do to keep you happy In effect, JT was asking him to be truthful about what he wanted. Tosh owed him that respect.
This happens all the time with star employees who get offers from other companies. All you ask for as a manager in that situation is for the ‘star’ to be honest with what they need to stay. There is nothing worse as a manager than having to go to higher ups for a big ‘save’ counter in a budget constrained environment and then having that fail because the employee wasn’t being straight with you on their stated need/wants to stay with you. And failing to be honest is a great way to burn a bridge (and needlessly so).
Right…he had to pull some strings to match the first offer—something that was pretty monumental considering how cash strapped the AD and the state is. If that wasn’t enough, Tosh could’ve done the honorable thing and state that he will continue to explore the UW opportunity given the higher proposed salary.
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
Exactly...
I don’t begrudge Lupoi’s new salary, nor his boat perk.
I find the manner in which he left just despicable however.
That having been said, it comes back to salary. Ultimately, I don’t have a problem losing a coach we can’t afford to pay given the state’s finances, as well as the precedent it sets in giving an assistant coach a 200% or so raise at a time when the Regents are amping up for more protests over more potential fee increases.
Not to sound like Chancellor Heyman on this (he who said that he never cared if Cal never went to a Rose Bowl at alumni functions), but there’s got to be a point where Cal has to walk away from the table. Tedford told Lupoi the line where he’d have to walk away. it appears he tried to keep him. But then the rest of the shit above went down.
I am not going to fault Tedford for not ponying up more money when there simply wasn’t any, or if it would have created chaos amongst the rest of the coaching staff, such that then even more money would have to be given out. I don’t want to see the fan base having to go through another Cal Baseball / Rugby / Gymnastics situation where the budget means that other sports get dropped so that we can have Lupoi stay to bring in a 17-year-old 5-start safety. What does it say to those athletes in those sports?
At this point, we just have to survive this year. There will always be 5-start safeties to chase in the future, as well as other young coaches that can do the same for Cal that Lupoi once did (Follett?). His magic can’t last forever, especially if this story gets the wings it needs to destroy his reputation if it goes mainstream. Even then, he won’t be a “young” coach forever.
There was just so many better ways for this to have played itself out. It’s sad that it appears that Lupoi chose to take the worst possible avenue to leave town.
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is
research."
by Auricursine on Jan 18, 2012 8:09 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
If the accusations are true he will be black balled.
The coaching fraternity is unique. Recruiting is the lifes blood of a football program – coaches job securities are defined by recruiting successes.
Coaches talk among themselves and if this dude was recruiting players while being paid by the school he is leaving, the word will get out. NO HC worth his salt will touch him with a ten foot pole.
He will be persona non grata and that is how it should be!
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Jan 18, 2012 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
(ex) Bears behaving badly
I think, as bigtrain21 notes, there are other scenarios around how the process worked. I imagine one to be Tosh got a ridiculous counter from Sark post the JT conversation in which he would turn down UW. I can imagine an internal conflict of not wanting to break your word to someone you undoubtedly look up to and respect and jumping at a ridiculous pile of money and benefits (a boat…so Seattle). Slinking out of town would be the behavior of someone not very proud of their actions but perhaps not as nefarious as suggested in the original article.
That said, the rest is hard to find fault with as it relates to justifiable anger and disgust. Yes, recruiting is a nasty and dirty business. Violating unwritten rules and burning bridges is something he will have to live with. But talking a recruit about a job you might take while on Cal’s dime is unethical. And then going after recruits to NOT go to Cal (even if they weren’t coming to UW) is at best spiteful.
It sounds like the guy just flipped a bit and decided that if he wasn’t going to abide by some of his professed honor code, he might as well discard all of it in the bargain. In for a penny, in for a pound. I guess that answers the question of whether JT threw hime under the bus for the Oregon game D-line faux injury issue.
I also doubt Lupoi had some grand scheme to leave Cal all along; if he wanted to do that, I’m sure he’d want to see the look on Tedford’s face as he gave him the metaphorical middle finger. His sneaking away reeks of shame.
Sneaking away in the night is why I don’t consider Tosh a man.
Poaching recruits is why I consider Tosh a scumbag.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
move on
Tosh is gone. We’re all upset, but it’s fruitless to speculate on the circumstances of his leaving. The task at hand is salvaging what we can of our stellar 2012 recruiting class. What can the Cal community do to show solidarity and help this cause?
by WilderThanGene on Jan 18, 2012 5:42 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Agree...horse is out of the barn
The hard part will be the stability narrative. JT is on the hot seat this season. That in and of itself is a tough narrative to sell against when recruiting. But with these two back-to-back coaching losses this close the signing period, the program just appears to be in chaos (not that it is, just that it appears that way from the outside). That isn’t going to help in these 50/50 situations and I don’t really know what they can do to turn that around in the time allotted if there main anchor to the school was Tosh.
My guess is we lose all of the stellar defense commitments which is unfortunate but certainly not the worst it could be.
Part of repairing this is for the recruits to know how Tosh conducted himself and to reestablish relationships with them.
by VermontBear on Jan 18, 2012 6:37 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I disagree, but still kind of see your point. Over the last 2 days, Sandy and Coach Tedford have been targets of many Bears on the internet. Sure, they COULD have had some blame in all of this, but it was premature for fans to jump on them without knowing the ENTIRE story (i.e., twitter idiots calling Sandy a ‘fat cow’ was uncalled for)
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
I agree we should move on and try to stop the RAAAAGE, but I think it makes perfect sense to keep trying to uncover—and make public—the truth.
It redeems Tedford and Sandy and helps reveal Tosh’s true nature, hopefully to keep our recruits for falling for his BS.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Even Kiffin said that he wouldn’t recruit Tennessee commits after he took the $C at about the same time in the recruiting cycle 3 years ago. He and Orgeron did go after players that weren’t yet commited (Ambles, how did that work out?). The fact that Tosh is openly recruiting both Payton & Shaq (CAL COMMITS) shows a lack of ethics on the whole UW staff.
by MV Bear on Jan 18, 2012 5:45 AM PST via mobile reply actions 8 recs
Untrue
Brandon Willis, who is now at UCLA, said that he was being contacted by ogre to follow him to suc but he instead opted for UNC.
"A legend is an old man with a cane known for what he used to do. I'm still doing it." Miles Davis
by milesdavis93 on Jan 18, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
Recruiting for Uw on Cal's dime is unethical..
…if true, and possibly illegal. However, just about everything else you describe, when stripped of its more passionate language, is just normal business. Further, the only source for a lot of that story would be Jeff Tedford, and other biased parties at Cal.
Its a huge problem that Cal is in a situation where so many top players were going to go to Berkley because of one defensive line coach. That is kind of crazy. As a Duck fan, it would make sense if top recruits bailed if Chip Kelly left, but Steve Greatwood?
That said, Huskies are well known as liars and cheats. If Tosh was in fact lying and cheating, he’s found his home.
by matthewcc on Jan 18, 2012 5:46 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
+1
Interesting to see the contrast in recruit reactions (to your point) ranging from ‘love the school not the coach’ to ‘coach is gone, I’m outta here.’ I love the tweet from the one recruit which in effect said the quality of the school doesn’t leave with the coach so he’s a solid commit. I would never trade my Cal experience for something like a coach but that’s me.
I can’t say I envy a coach who makes a living trying to survive the whims of 17 and 18-year old kids.
PS – As I live in Seattle, I share your distate for the Fuskies. Might also help that my wife is a Duck :)
"liars and cheats". Cmon, dude...
…we aren’t all republicans
Damn, my eyeball tastes good.
@chrislandon
You're a troll. Please leave.
"We do not seek men who will bravely lie down to die, but men who will fight valiantly to live."
"Winning is not everything. It is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."
-- Andrew Latham Smith
I'm a republican and you are simply full of shit!
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
While he may it’s not nice to say mean things like that. Please, no personal attacks. Unless it’s Twist.
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
You are right
I should have said “I am a republican – are you calling me a liar and a cheat?”
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
I am a Republican and I have more honor than new Huskies demonstrated this week.
TROLL ON YOU BEARS. - atoms
That’s a low bar, though :)
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said, I AM a Republican. ;)
*full disclosure: I am a sane one. Obama 2012.
TROLL ON YOU BEARS. - atoms
Wow, I feel like I’ve spotted a nearly extinct species :)
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
To me, the real issue isn’t the negotiations between Offer 1 and Offer 2. Tedford made a bold move by telling Tosh to take it or leave this offer for good. Tedford drew that line, for what a couple hundred grand/yr and a boat? Big dollars, but not necessarily obscene dollars. I bet Orgeron makes twice as much.
The real issue to me is why this seemingly loyal Bear went out not just with a better career move, but he went out with double middle fingers up. WHY?! I speculate:
1) Crampgate planted the seed of “WTF?” in Tosh’s mind. Do we know if that 1 game suspension came with a fine of 1/12th of his salary (almost $14k)? Sure, it wasn’t the one and only reason, but it helped him feel less guilt about looking elsewhere I’m sure. That Tepper and Edwards commented on it is noteworthy to me.
2) No opportunity for advancement ($ and responsibilities) despite being The Man and having offers at other programs.
3) Tosh had another “WTF?” moment with the take it or leave it offer from Tedford, although he cowardly said one thing and then did the next. Nonetheless, why didn’t Tedford make a better take it or leave it offer, perhaps by reaching out to big donors with info that the ace recruiter will leave if we don’t pay him and pay him well? I fear Tedford had reached the point where Tosh’s recruiting success was a little to threatening to Tedford. The Loyal, Local Alum is Doing Better than the Head Coach with Nike Money and a Shitty Conference Record of Late.
4) Tosh believes Tedford’s done but will take years for Tosh to get an opportunity to replace him. I don’t think Tedfordists want to acknowledge that, but I think it’s foolish to immediately not consider it.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
4) scares me, not only for what it implies about the stability and morale of the current staff, but also because it’s an easy way to inject all kinds of doubt into our current recruits. If he’s coming back to Payton and Shaq and telling them Tedford may not be around much longer (since he was on the inside and would know), I don’t see how we can recover.
yeah we’ll see how signing day goes and we’ll see how he replaces these guys. These aren’t just good coaches, these are Cal guys. Combined with everything and, seemingly, the odds being against them regarding the questions at oline, that good defenses force Maynard into plays that he cannot make, which will lead to another year of the same. If they don’t dump them, it’s because of the money contractually owed to Tedford.
Which sucks for Jeff. I think he thought he could turn a corner. I thought he could turn a corner.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I think there’s a lot left to interpret in how Tedford approached Tosh with the final offer. When I first read it, I saw the situation as Tedford putting his ass on the line to get a raise for Tosh, succeeding, and telling Tosh “this is the best we can offer you” rather than “take it or leave.”
I also disagree with point 2; he seemed more likely to climb the ladder at Cal than UW. Pendergast has NFL experience and demonstrable recent success in the college game at Cal, meaning both avenues are open to him. Tedford’s seat is getting hot and he could be let go sometime soon. Conversely, Sark and Wilcox are younger and more recent hires, meaning it would take longer for Tosh to get promotions.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
I began to think that Tedford is likely planning on staying until the end of his contract (should things improve and he doesn’t get fired, of course) and then turning the program over to Lupoi—kind of how Chip Kelly took over the program at Oregon.
Lupoi has bettered his financial situation, but I feel that he’s bit further down on the ladder by hooking his star to Wilcox, i.e. his path to a HC job will take longer than if he stayed at Cal to position himself as Tedford’s successor.
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is
research."
by Auricursine on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Given that we’re hearing the company line of, “We couldn’t get close to UW’s offer because we’d have to raise all the salaries of the other coaches despite Lupoi, not them, bringing in the big talent” how would Cal fans feel about Tedford giving Pendergast the axe in favor of promoting Lupoi to DC and being able to pay him more appropriately?
If Tedford did that and he continued with his modest record of W/L of late and god awful offense at several times, would he not be giving Tosh the Inexperienced Coach enough experience to replace Tedford in a couple of years?
Is it impossible to think that a likely replacement combo in the post Tedford era would be Justin Wilcox (HC) and Tosh Lupoi (DC)?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Wow! I re-visited this blog because I like the Cal people
And I find this going on. Assuming what the article said is true, I submit this:
To those of you that support Lupoi – shame on you! You have traded your ethics for flimsy justifications.
To those of you that feel Lupoi sold out on loyalties – Get over it. This is the real world in college athletics and anywhere, actually, whereby greed is involved.
School and personal loyalty doesn’t exist anymore. If Nick Saban (The leader of dis-loyalty) came to Cal’s president and said: “I want to be your football HC and I will come tomorrow if you get rid of Tedford” – what is the likelihood of Tedford hitting the road?
If schools have no loyalty to coaches, why then would coaches have loyalty to schools?
The victims (yes, they are victims) are the players that committed to Cal on the basis and words of Cals coaches. Lupoi lied to them! This is unforgivable and marks him as a dishonest, arrogant scumbag.
No way in hell would I allow my son to be anywhere near a rat like this!
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Jan 18, 2012 6:38 AM PST reply actions 3 recs
Thank you.
I’ll note that Tedford himself turned down an offer from the Ice Dogs (as well as some pro teams) well after Cal had failed to get him the facilities he was promised. In return, after he became far less than a hot property some years later and with those facilities still a couple years away from completion, the school gave him a long contract extension, so that he would actually get to coach a couple years with said facilities in place.
But of course, there’s no such thing as loyalty in college football.
by ososdeoro on Jan 18, 2012 8:51 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Who knew Tedford was so into hockey! And turned down SEVEN diffferent teams!
Tedford himself turned down an offer from the Ice Dogs




Now THAT is integrity.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
What's the deal with the Ice Dogs?
We don’t do much hockey puckey down here in Texas.
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
Regardless of any scenario
Trash Lupus recruited for UW on Cal’s dime: an act below even Lame Kitten. Character shows in the long run. Let’s just see what kind if career Trash has.
Done with this story already
I’m not going to bitch about Tosh anymore. It’s not going to do us any good anyways. Making us look all butt hurt doesn’t make us seem too confident. We have a new stadium coming, a state of the art performance center and a great group of kids in the program. And, oh yeah, a great university too.
If all this is true, it’ll catch up to him sometime. This is college athletics. Take a look at all the moves just in the PAC-12 this offseason.
I'll never fogret it
January 16th will live in infamay forever.
BLUE AND GOLD TIL I DIE!
GO BEARS!!!!
Suck on dese nuts TexAss!!!
by bearblueballz on Jan 18, 2012 7:39 AM PST up reply actions
Tosh Who?
He’s dead to me.
Californian in Exile:
by secret ASian man on Jan 18, 2012 7:37 AM PST reply actions
I second the wow!
Thanks for this great article. I feel pretty embarrassed that I rushed to judgement against Tedford, and want to apologize. At least around here I know I’m around a solid group of loyal Cal fans (Avinash, you aren’t bolting to the hu$ky website after such a great article are you).
But all kidding aside, that is a total bitch move by To$h the Traitor.
Suck on dese nuts TexAss!!!
Wow. I hope this isn’t even close to true, as I’d prefer to blame the system—which almost begs participants to be unethical—rather than the individuals involved. But I wouldn’t exactly be surprised if it is. After all, a young coach whose reputation is built more on his salesmanship than on his teaching ability is not exactly a person you’d expect to be the role model of ethical behavior.
There is a great deal of sour grapes in the following rhetorical question, so please dip it in a vat of salt. But what really is the foundation for Tosh’s perceived greatness, giving him market value of a half-mill. per year?
1. He plays X-Box and otherwise becomes players’ BFF
2. He teaches players how to feign injury
3. He is a loyal, homegrown Berkeley native and true Son of California
Suffice it to say, Ron Gould remains firmly entrenched atop my pantheon of assistant coaches. Hopefully, when Tedford replaces Lupoi and Kiesau, he’ll hire more teachers/mentors, not more salesmen.
(Hmm. I wonder what the Kapp family is thinking about all this?)
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jan 18, 2012 7:48 AM PST reply actions
Leave us out of this
I sure hope Sark the Trojan is happy with his handiwork
SC is not involved in this at all. Sarkisian works for UW, and he’s doing what he thinks is best for his employers. If you’re going there, why not blame BYU, that’s where Sark played in college, if college football is supposed to be the crucible of “making the man.”
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Hes got that Trojan stink on him forever. It never goes away!
FOREVER UNCLEAN!
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: Read It | Follow It | Like It | Wear It
by TwistNHook on Jan 18, 2012 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
THE BEAST!
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer - I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."- Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions head coach
California Golden Blogs
Hes got that Trojan stink on him forever
It smells like sunshine and sunblock slowly singeing off a comely co-ed. There are worse odors ;)
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Sunblock singes?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
It’s more alliterative than “sunblock burning off” – and I suspect that if you put enough on, it does.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Slowly sloughing?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:25 AM PST up reply actions
That’s not a very alluring combination. Why must you interfere with a middle aged man’s happy thoughts about the college experience he should have had?
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Sorry, I’ll leave you to your, erm, devices, my newfound fellow Everton fan :)
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
Wait - I'm still looking up "alliterative"
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
DAMN YOU DC!
now how am supposed to work when it’s 34 degrees.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
Good suggestion.
FUCK BYU. You know who came from BYU? TOM HOLMOE, THAT’S WHO.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
I didn’t know that, actually.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Played on the same team as Kyle Whittingham, which makes Steve Mariucci's lasting legacy at Cal
“didn’t chose the right Miracle Bowl linebacker.”
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Jan 18, 2012 8:41 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Happy to help
I don’t actually like Washington anyway, so sure!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Yes, please do
I’ve happily watched UW beat U$C for some years now, but next year the situation will switch. Mind you, my handle was forged during the years when Cal and $C were fighting for the conference title, and the fact that I have too many familial relations to $C. But I have plenty of hate to go around, and UW is currently top of the list.
blame BYU
Bah, I’ve always known that place was a den of iniquity!
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
Those Jerks hording all the incredible women of Utah..........
"I spent 90 percent of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted!"
For once it’s not my fault, dammit!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Solely that it’s not my fault.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Welcome
To the world of recruiting. While Cal fans are bitching and moaning about one coach leaving , other teams in the conference are out there recruiting. That’s what’s wrong with Cal football fans, once they get hit in the mouth they go in the corner and hide while the bully pillages their locker. If Cal fans want to their team to be relevant then they need to fight fire with fire. This passive bitching by the fans and the school is why Cal football will never be elite
Your comment confuses me. It’s not our responsibility (or even our place) to recruit players. And doing so could create recruiting violations. Tedford and Co, they need to have moved on and be out there pounding th epavement for players.
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by TwistNHook on Jan 18, 2012 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
That’s not our job?!
Crap… I guess that’s why Shaq gets creeped out when I knock on his door declaring I’m there on official business…
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 12:01 PM PST up reply actions
Cal fans should fight fire with fire? Wtf are you even talking about?
Go troll someone else.
no bear, no care
by EchoOfSilence on Jan 18, 2012 8:07 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
You're right!!
I’m going to leave my coaching position at Washington for Cal and steal all their recruits!!!!! That’ll show em!!! Yarrrrghhhh.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:08 AM PST up reply actions
WHARGLBARGL
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
I think what he's really trying to say is
we have to react more angrily than sadly.
Like Tosh,
Tosh, DAMN YOU!!! YARGAARGAARGAYARRRRR~!!!!!
now everything is better. thanks for the awesome comment Howshecanslap.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:15 AM PST up reply actions
QUICK SOMEBODY HIT ME IN THE CHEST WITH THEIR FIST IN A MASCULINE MATTER!! THAT’LL SHOW THOSE CAL RECRUITS!
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by TwistNHook on Jan 18, 2012 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
We need to start a fan union!!! Then we’ll enter CBA negotiations with college football at large and refuse to be fans until Tosh comes back to Cal.
Hell yeah, bro!!!! Fighting fire with fire never felt so good!!! YARRRRRRR!!!!
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:19 AM PST up reply actions
Bad news. I ran out of fire. Can we fight fire with cotton candy instead? I have a LOT of cotton candy. Cotton candy and asbestos.
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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I just got fired from my job as a fireman for fighting fire with fire. Turns out you’re not supposed to take that advice literally.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
I just got hired at Professional Arsons, Inc. When it comes to Arson, we’re your men!
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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You confusing insulation for cotton candy again, Twist?
by SturdyGoldenBear on Jan 18, 2012 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
I think I need immediate medical attention!!!
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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There's actually a kernel of truth in this trolling
It’s OK to be upset, and it’s good to get the facts out there about Lupoi leaving. And yeah, we got screwed over (assuming what Avi posted is true).
But there is this tendency among my fellow Cal fans to play the victim a bit much. We’re still pissy about losing a back-door Rose Bowl invite to Texas 8 years ago!
Instead of being outraged at UW luring our coaches away, we need to ask ourselves why another random public school is able to pay our coaches 3x what we’re offering, and figure out how we can match it to prevent this from happening in the future.
We need to be more like Jorge – when someone takes a dirty shot at him, he just plays harder.
But we don’t want to be the victim. You say that as if we revel in it or something. Hell, I’d rather we were out there bending OTHER programs over and having our way with them. I’m sick of being on this end of it.
we need to ask ourselves why another random public school is able to pay our coaches 3x what we’re offering, and figure out how we can match it to prevent this from happening in the future.
I’ve been wondering this exact thing. Apparently UW makes more money than we do and uses more of it for football or something. I just hope this can be a wakeup call for our donors. I don’t know if we do it, I know some schools name professorships from people who have endowed money… Maybe we can do the same for coaching positions as well.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:15 AM PST up reply actions
First off, great user name. Second of all, what the hell are you talking about? We’re engaging in some VERY active bitching here, it’s not passive bitching at all. And yeah, great, let’s get some better coaches, snag some other team’s guys, and build a winner. But anybody would be mad about what happened.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 9:57 AM PST up reply actions
HONESTLY
Who gives a $hit?
I love my Bears, proud to be an alum, gonna root for my Bears NO MATTER WHAT. I don’t care if the recruits are 5 or* 4* or 3* or JC transfer QB afterthought who was offered while Tedford was scouting another guy on the team who end up being Super Bowl MVPs.
I’m gonna root for the guys on the team. To those that choose to decommit because of assistant coaches that are basically a revolving door, best of luck to them. I hope they realize “UC Berkeley” on their resume means a lot in the real world just in case the whole NFL thing doesn’t work out (oh you know, about 2000 NFLers in the world at a time).
I’m done crying over spilled milk.
My advice: GET OVER IT and MOVE ON. What the hell does a smear campaign against a fellow Golden Bear accomplish?
by w0nderbrad on Jan 18, 2012 8:19 AM PST via mobile reply actions 6 recs
I agree
(But as I get told when I make similar statements, this is a Cal athletics website, not a UC Berkeley website.)
Yea but are these crybabies gonna love the bears less because of who is on the team? Doubt it. Are they going to love the team more because of some recruits?
Pretty sure anyone posting on here are diehard Cal fans. Cal lost a couple coaches, some recruits, whatever. It’s all water under the bridge. I’m moving on and looking forward to the new season in a few months.
by w0nderbrad on Jan 18, 2012 8:33 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
And remember when Randall Carroll committed to UCLA and that was the end of Cal football? How did he turn out? Kicked off the team. And remember when Cal landed Clay and Carter last year? And both dropped out/quit/whatever bc of academics?
Shit happens
by w0nderbrad on Jan 18, 2012 8:37 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Yep. There were people on this blog ready to go off the ledge after Martin ended up choosing Florida over Cal at the last second. Now that guy isn’t even playing football atm.
You never know what’s going to happen. Still sucks to get screwed by one of our own though.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
What the hell does a smear campaign against a fellow Golden Bear accomplish?
It’s not libel if it’s the truth, so I’m very interested as to what you know that we don’t. Care to share with the class?
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
He never said anything about libel
You can smear someone with the truth.
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
You can smear someone with the truth.
Because God forbid we actually be responsible for our actions.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
What the hell does a smear campaign against a fellow Golden Bear accomplish?
Tosh got paid to bring recruits. This includes people like Shaq Thompson and Jordan Payton. It also includes future recruits.
If these guys know the truth, then they’re less likely to trust and follow a shady character like Tosh. They might see his true colors.
by freshfunk on Jan 18, 2012 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Very good point.
California expended huge amounts of money, travel and time recruiting the very players that this goober is now trying to take away from them – players that have actually committed to Cal.
I would love to see the NCAA step in (which they won’t), pass a rule (call it the Lupoi rule) that coaches must reimburse the expenses and costs to the aggrieved school before they can recruit for another school.
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
Lupoi is no longer a fellow Golden Bear
He was one of us, but he’s not anymore. Leaving for more money isn’t the problem per se, but lying about it and actively trying to destroy us is.
by sacman701 on Jan 18, 2012 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares what went down.
Are we seriously going to cry over an assistant coach who left for HALF A MILLION FCKIN DOLLARS?
If I were Lupoi, this is EXACTLY how I would have responded:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eGJOqMHsDI
We’re posting on a message board. I don’t get this attitude of OMG WHY ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING I CAN’T UNDERSTAND IT. This is the internet. It’s where people go to complain about stuff. I am pretty sure nobody is actually suicidal about any of this, but as fans/alums, on a site devoted to Cal sports, yeah, we’re gonna complain when bad shit happens.
Also, evidently your highest principle is the almighty dollar. Good for you.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
What does it accomplish?
Well, it makes us feel better about ourselves for not being complete scumbags and Ted Miller tends to read stuff from CGB so maybe others from the Pac-12 will come to realize that UW is being run by slimy bastards?
Traitor Lupiad
Dawgs want us to “get over it” or claim that this is par for the course. Of course they do. They don’t want recruits knowing how shady Tosh is. They don’t want this to end up on ESPN and tarnish their prized calf now that they’ve spent money on it.
Do not listen to them.
To the dawgs: Coaches have come and gone at Cal but not in this manner. Look, you guys got Kiesau too. Do you see anybody accusing him of being a traitor? No. People understand that coaches come and go.
But the dawg apologists want to make this look like it’s nothing because yikes you are the ones looking dirty.
Tosh is nothing more than a mercenary. He’s a local boy who can’t set foot on the Berkeley campus with his head held high. He backstabbed the coach that gave him the opportunity to become what he is today. He left behind his guys on the DL without a word. Lastly, he played Cal like it was an Xbox.
To see how it's done ethically
look at your own new DB coach Keith Heyward.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=132643661032393000
Will Heyward attempt to get the recruits to follow him to the Huskies?
"No, I won’t," he said. "That would be unethical. No."
by freshfunk on Jan 18, 2012 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Scorched Earth, The Truth Hurts
This is much worse than LeBron James, who merely left his hometown team as a free agent in a bungled way. This is a guy leaving his hometown team for a neighboring town while trying to burn his hometown to the ground. What a complete and utter douche. I wonder: if, as I understand, his recruiting pitch was to speak passionately about Cal and his experience there (i.e., his real pitch was not the specific points he was making but the underlying enthusiasm he had for the school), will it not ring hollow when he tries to make a similar pitch about UW? It will if the details of all this get out widely. Recruits probably thought he was different before, someone honest and passionate. He is not different. He is the same sleazy greaseball on staff at every college – he’ll do anything to win, and cares about himself first, second and third.
Who says he was speaking passionately about UC Berkeley? Based on the comments of the recruits, sounds like he was doing more of the recruiting to come and play with him.
I may be naive, but I assume that when a recruiter gives his pitch to attend a particular school, he mentions the school. What of all that Cal family stuff?
What about it?
Why don’t you drive up to UW and ask him what family means to him now?
Sark the Trojan?
How in the hell did USC get dragged into this mess. Last time I checked Sark didn’t go to USC and has no problem beating them as much as possible. Pete never snatched assistants from other PAC schools, Sark didn’t learn that from his time at USC.
Well that I certainly understand.
This is clearly one bad deal. I would probably be doing the same.
by ev on Jan 18, 2012 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
You know...
…shit really hit the fan when Trojan fans think something’s scummy. I mean, everyone has minor violations, that’s not a complete shot at USC. But for a school that’s known to push the boundaries with fans that don’t care…
like the pissed off kid throwing haymakers with their eyes closed while crying, sometimes other shit gets caught in the path
by JoeCarr on Jan 18, 2012 8:52 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
lolol so true
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:28 AM PST up reply actions
How in the hell did USC get dragged into this mess.
I have to say, it’s a nice change of pace to not be cast as the villain in the piece.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
They really don’t like Washington. My brother went to Oregon and his comment about Justin Wilcox working at U-Dub was “how could he!” – mostly joking. Sort of.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
We don't capitalize washington
I’ve no problem with the Wilcox/Sirmon combo going to the fuskies. Tennessee is a sinking ship. That Wilcox may have helped that ship to founder makes me feel kind of good!
scrappy
by Honka Playboy on Jan 18, 2012 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
No, we spell it correctly.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You are ATQ South, you know
that’s your hug
scrappy
by Honka Playboy on Jan 18, 2012 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
We still like to fart at your general direction, DC.
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
by ikoolykedat on Jan 18, 2012 8:53 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah but these days.....
…..only because it hits UCLA on the way.
And here I thought that was the prevailing breeze off the ocean.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
You know what...
…this season, if UW comes to the Coliseum, I’m going with my friends to cheer the fuck against UW.
Don’t worry, no one in the chemistry, physics, economics, history, psychology, sociology or english departments considers your school a rival…
ohsnap.gif
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
I am crushed, crushed I tell you
I don’t ever expect SC to be on a level field with Cal academically… but what matters to me is the 20 years of steady improvement kicked off by Steve Sample, and the sense of relief that we’re not dependent on the state of California to underwrite maintaining or improving programs.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Give us a day or so...
But I must say, I did laugh when I read, “How the hell did USC get dragged into this mess.” It was like you guys were saying, “We may be evil, but we’re not THAT evil.” LOL
Lawrence Ross
FOREVER UNCLEAN!
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by TwistNHook on Jan 18, 2012 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Now hearing that we may have hired Charles Collins as WR coach… Used to run Phenom Factory
no bear, no care
by EchoOfSilence on Jan 18, 2012 9:08 AM PST via mobile reply actions
From a story on the last lecture by the great Leon Litwack- professor emeritus, pulitzer prize award winner:
“Litwack ended with an eagerly anticipated moment of personal reflection. When he first came to Cal as a freshman, he said, “I could not imagine going anywhere else …. There’s an old saying: ‘Life is a dream; please don’t wake me up.’ That’s how I feel about my life and my years at Berkeley. When I leave here,” he told his audience, “I’ll cherish most of all my memories of you. More than 30,000 of you I taught here.”
The final words of his 43-year Berkeley teaching career: “Fight the power. Go Bears!”
by JoeCarr on Jan 18, 2012 9:10 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I’m not inclined to hate people personally. Even my hate for Mack Brown is really hate for the character Mack Brown plays.
My sense is that Tosh is young and didn’t quite understand what he could and couldn’t do in the negotiating process. This was his first time in career negotiation. Tedford said, here’s how high we can go, but we can’t go higher. Tosh says to UW, I’m solid with Cal. Sark says, well how about a bazillion dollars? Tosh doesn’t tell Cal about the counteroffer because he misunderstood what Tedford was saying. Maybe Cal can’t go higher, but at least they would have some time to prepare, etc.
This would also accord with the weirdness that was crampgate. Tedford first says no one faked injuries. Then later finds out that Tosh instructed a player to fake an injury.
I think Tosh is just young and makes some judgment errors—I don’t think he meant to do anything unethical but he has a history of making bad decisions, and then not coming forward about them. I see the same behavior from 20-somethings all the time. Especially ones that are living charmed lives. Not a strong sense of responsibility in this one. . .
But I don’t hate him. I hate what happened. I think what Washington engineered was sleezeball. But I think in the long run, we’re better off without him and the recruiting violations that he will stumble into. . .
I’m in my 20’s, haven’t had a rough life, but I — and most of my friends — have a pretty good idea about when we’re being scumbags and usually try to avoid said situations.
yeah, I guess I didn’t mean to exclude myself when I was in my 20s, and I’m not trying to say all 20 somethings are dicks. What I’m saying is that all of us make some boneheaded decisions early in our careers. And that a certain type of person, the ones leading the charmed lives, making, say 25x what their peers are making, for whom taking responsibility is difficult in the face of so much entitlement, ESPECIALLY when they’re young.
But yeah, I didn’t mean to imply that all kids are unethical these days. Good point and thanks for straightening me out.
by slaphancock on Jan 18, 2012 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
I’m in my mid-20s and I passed up an incredible opportunity for career advancement (not quite 500k and a boat of Jumbacos, but it takes a truly great scientist to get that offer) because I knew it wouldn’t be fair to my employer to leave under the circumstances at that time.
I don’t think Tosh gets pardoned for being young.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 12:15 PM PST via Android app up reply actions
I’m glad to hear that, and congratulations on the offer!
I’m not trying to say we pardon Tosh for being young, but possibly there is a way of interpreting the situation in which the apparent malicious backstabbing is better described as childish aversion to responsibility.
It’s still bad. But one is out to actively destroy Cal because he hates Cal. The other is that he effectively hurt Cal because he cares more about himself.
Actually, put that way, I’m not sure how different the two cases are.
by slaphancock on Jan 18, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
Shaq, Payton, Armstead,
and whoever admires Tosh, should be informed of this story.
Hopefully they will change their mind at stick will Cal, or at least not follow him to UW.
From Chris Harper's twitter
ItsChrisHarper Christopher Harper
RT @califresh4life: @ItsChrisHarper i dont wanna have to return my Chris Harper jersey< you don’t have to I’m staying
6 minutes ago
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 9:26 AM PST reply actions
So that’s both Powe and Harper saying they’re staying. Treggs hasn’t said anything yet. The WR class still has a chance to be really good imo.
by LouisMurphy'sLaw on Jan 18, 2012 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
Yes he has. Treggs is staying.
no bear, no care
by EchoOfSilence on Jan 18, 2012 9:29 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Link?
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I love this. Exposé the traitors, and let the chips fall where they may.
Sark couldn’t recruit to UW. He threw 30 pieces of silver at Tosh to try to steal our programs momentum.
Now, recruits and their parents have a VERY simple choice to make:
Who do you trust? What kind of people do you want to entrust the most import 4 years of your life?
If they like Sark and Tosh and what’s going on up there, by all means go.
If they want an education from a University full of kids who couldn’t get into Cal, good for you. I’m sure things will work out.
And don’t worry… I know in my heart, just like Tedford at Cal, Sark and staff will be there coaching for decades to come. (cough)
Go Bears
LOL
Washington: Sark has announced everything…Kiesau is OC / QBs. Dougherty remains WRs and adds pass game coordinator. Running backs coach Joel Thomas added the title of associate head coach offense. Johnny Nansen will now serve as special teams coordinator / assistant head coach / recruiting coordinator.
"Our sturdy golden troll"
-cldpc
by Redonkulous Bear on Jan 18, 2012 9:30 AM PST reply actions
I think associate is like assistant to the regional manager while assistant hc is like assistant regional manager
"Our sturdy golden troll"
-cldpc
by Redonkulous Bear on Jan 18, 2012 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Pay of Assistant Coaches
Getting our assistant coaches poached this week has made me wonder whether this is simply a wake-up call for Cal regarding assistant coach pay. A quick review of contemporary Cal football history reveals the following:
Pre 2002
Total and utter neglect leads to a crappy football team.
2002-2004
Cal experiences real success on the football field, and guards this success by paying/investing in Tedford market rate for successful HCs.
2004-2011
Cal slowly but surely follows through with it’s agreement with Tedford and overall institutional commitment to athletics by upgrading facilities to par with the conference. (I say par because I suspect are facilities are only better than other schools because they are newer.)
2012
Cal loses some good assistant coaches to UW solely because of pay.
Honestly, when you look at the disparity between HC pay and assistant pay, the difference appears unstable. HC’s get $1-2, sometimes more. Coordinators are $200-$500, with assistants in the $100-$200 area. I imagine they are all equally invested as far as time commitment, and also equally exposed to the insecurity of the job. What other line of work is analogous? When the boss gets paid 10x more than his workers, this situation breeds instability. The assistants will necessarily always be looking to move up for a bigger payday. It seems more logical to reduce the compensation of the HC and spread the wealth a bit more to the other members of the staff. Whys is this not done?
Here's a much much bigger issue
http://californiawatch.org/dailyreport/professors-earn-far-more-stanford-university-california-9843
“Full professors at Stanford University make on average $39,000 more than their counterparts at UC Berkeley, reinforcing fears about UC’s ability to recruit and retain top professors in the face of deep reductions in state support.
A full professor at UC Berkeley makes an average of $149,100, and at UCLA a full professor makes $153,700. Compare that to a full professor at Stanford who makes an average of $188,400, according to the latest American Association of University Professors salary survey published this week by the Chronicle of Higher Education.”
Of course professor pay is a much bigger issue...
But I’m more interested in considering the football staff in isolation. I’m curious, from an economics/HR standpoint, why is this the norm for the pay scale in college football? Does the HC provide 10x the value of the assistants? If so, how?
Or conversely, is UW (and other schools) grossly overpaying their assistants? Are they getting a poor value relative to what they’re paying? Of course, since football isn’t a business in the sense of a traditional business, the big programs can throw out good money after bad until they get the desired result. A real business would be bankrupt if it made too many poor decisions. Has there yet been an example of a program grasping for success by opening it’s wallet, only to fail and then revert to a more value conscious approach?
College sports is creepy
Let’s compete. But let’s not try to be USC, Penn State, Ohio State, etc.
I think that UW
is overpaying for some assistants, and if they want to be competitive in all sports it will not be sustainable. However, historically, they are not very interested in other sports like we are.
It seems they are also spending the money from the new TV arrangements before it’s in the bank. And we just spent about $400M on facilities. We need to wait until we see what the real additional revenue is before we commit to spending it. A couple hundred K per year turns into real money after a few years.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
until recently
i am 100% sure they paid way more than we do, but we have upped our pay considerably in recent times, but not crazy pants.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
someone did a study of our pay
a couple years ago here.
folks like Gould who were at less than 100K per year when Tedford took over, were up to the 200-250K mark.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
I’m guessing that from an economic standpoint, it would make sense to pay assistant coaches a fraction of what you pay your head coaches due to the higher turnover rate. Bigger contracts means bigger buy out clauses, meaning you’re just throwing more money around that doesn’t need to be thrown. Keeping your HC gives the impression of stability, while you can work with the staff around him for much cheaper. This is most likely cyclical. The assistant turnover rate is probably also much higher because they get paid less and take any chance to move up in the world.
UW and some other schools probably overpay their assistants in order to see if they can smooth that turnover rate down — give them enough money that another school would have to GROSSLY overpay them to get them to jump ship. In this sense, I think they’re getting good value for what they’re paying as long as they get what they think they’re paying for? In UW’s case, they think Tosh is a great defensive line coach and recruiter. They’re willing to overpay for him because they think he’ll continue to do that at UW and don’t want him leaving in a year.
College football is a bit different from businesses, I’m not sure the bottom line really matters so much. I mean, it does, but the end goal of a football program isn’t necessarily to maximize profits, but to be self-sufficient and to help the school with its other athletic departments. You can probably make these gambles and miss more than you can with a “real” business.
So, to paraphrase: HC’s are highly paid because they are the continuity of the program. I remember reading an article that someone had linked that said coaching continuity was correlated to winning. Assistants are not highly paid because they are replaceable when they get scooped. I suppose this suggests that the supply of good assistants is quite high, and that there is then good competition for these positions. If this is true, then perhaps were overreacting a bit to this whole situation (apart from the recruiting implications for this year). Basically, we should be able to find good, competent coaches to replace the ones we lost and get good value for what we pay them.
But — as we’ve been saying for ages now — we’re not pissed that they left, but how. The only reason we’re worried that they left is that we don’t seem to have the means to keep the next guy from leaving either. It’s like your question: how is UW affording this and is it even worth it? Is it something Cal should be looking into? Honestly, I don’t think this is something Cal will ever do. That said, if the TV revenue money can pay off our debt in a couple years ($11 million IIRC), then maybe we will be able to pay our assistant coaches enough to not only keep them happy, but keep others from trying to poach them.
But they get like $2k of that back
Since they don’t have to pay CA taxes. That makes up for it, right?
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
This is hardly surprising but I think a bigger draw for professors to leave (at least in the physical sciences) has to do more with the $ for lab infrastructure. There is enough prestige for someone to come to Cal and stay at Cal over the pay difference.
by LEastCoastBears on Jan 18, 2012 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
Nov. 2nd- Love to See JT Go Schwartz on Sark
Tedford needs to talk to Jahvid and Pain Train about the “proper” post game handshake.
Nah, we gotta win with class.
Let’s just hope we see a killer Cal O-line make Tosh’s new D-line “family” look absolutely useless.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
HATE RANKINGS
List of the other Pac-12 schools, from most hated to acceptable:
1. furd
1a. uw
(big gap)
3. USC
4. Oregon
(gap)
5. UCLA
6. Arizona
7. Oregon St
8. Arizona St
9. Washington St
10. Utah
11. Colorado
Anyone have a different take?
At least UCLA fans don't boo injuries
Even if some traitor did convince our D-line to fake them once
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 10:09 AM PST up reply actions
Mine’s close, but like this:
1. ’furd
2. washington
3. oregon state
4. TIE: oregon and ucla
6. arizona state
7. arizona
8. usc
9. utah
10. wazzu
11. colorado
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
Actually, upon reflection, I’d say ucla is tied for #3 with oregon state, both of which are above oregon
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
Why the Beavers?
Their inability to lose to us when they should?
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Partly that, but it’s largely visceral for me, I don’t know what it is but I just can’t stand them.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
ok
1. Washington
(gap)
(gap)
(gap)
2. USC – I usually root against them even in nonconference games
3. Stanford – nothing against them apart from being our traditional rival.
4. Oregon – Nike $, yuck. Also, your colors are green and yellow. Not black or silver.
Below here I view every team as neutral or positive.
5. Utah – interlopers with ugly uniforms
6. Colorado – interlopers
7. ASU
8. UCLA
9. Oregon St
10. Wazzu
11. Arizona – I like Rich Rodriguez, I’m also a Michigan fan and I thought he didn’t get a fair shake
“interlopers”, really?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
heh
I’d like to see my team beat up on the new guys at least for a few years. It doesn’t look good if they start beating everybody.
Sure. I actually kinda like Colorado though.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Ralphie won my heart when he broke free of his handlers this season. Indomitable!
I find the three major administrative problems on a campus are sex for the students, athletics for the alumni, and parking for the faculty. -- Clark Kerr
by CalBear2007 on Jan 18, 2012 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
He won my heart
when he was born as a buffalo.
by Oski4Heisman on Jan 18, 2012 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
1. ‘Furd
2. UW
3. Oregon. (The booing of injuries really got to me)
4. USC
5. Arizona ("hey, look! Cal’s having a great season, wonder who is on the schedule next?" Cal @ UA “DOOOOOOOOOOM!”
6. UCLA. Baby bears. It is cute when they struggle in vain against their older sibling.
7. OSU (their destruction of our seasons is balanced by their ability to crush other Pac-12 frontrunners, unless said front runner lives in Eugene.
8-11 in no particular order: Wazzu, ASU, Utah & Colorado
I find the three major administrative problems on a campus are sex for the students, athletics for the alumni, and parking for the faculty. -- Clark Kerr
by CalBear2007 on Jan 18, 2012 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
Tosh Lupoi is an embarrassment to the University of California. Hope his parents are proud.
We figured that Kiesau was iffy when he came back after being let go from CU. When he left Cal the first time and said unkind things about Tedford and how his work hours were too long, well you can’t change a dog into a cat, I guess. At the end of the season he was calling a lot of the plays, from what we were told. Holiday Bowl, awesome. Not.
F* all those who are against us.
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
Thank God I am not a Husky!
GO BEARS!
he was a mistake from the word go.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 10:23 AM PST up reply actions
who is it? do we know? story? link? highlights?
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Apparently it’s Charlie Collins.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
The UW culture
Scoreboard, Baby: A Story of College Football, Crime, and Complicity
http://www.amazon.com/Scoreboard-Baby-College-Football-Complicity/dp/0803228104
“Winner of the 2011 Edgar Award, Best Crime Fact category
The adjectives associated with the University of Washington’s 2000 football season mystical, magical, miraculous changed when Ken Armstrong and Nick Perry’s four-part exposé of the 2000 Huskies hit the newspaper stands: “explosive . . . chilling” (Sports Illustrated), “blistering” (Baltimore Sun), “shocking . . . appalling” (Tacoma News Tribune), “astounding” (ESPN), “jaw-dropping” (Orlando Sentinel).
Now, in Scoreboard, Baby, Armstrong and Perry go behind the scenes of the Huskies Cinderella story to reveal a timeless morality tale about the price of obsession, the creep of fanaticism, and the ways in which a community can lose even when its team wins. The authors unearth the true story from firsthand interviews and thousands of pages of documents: the forensic report on a bloody fingerprint; the notes of a detective investigating allegations of rape; confidential memoranda of prosecutors; and the criminal records of the dozen-plus players arrested that year with scant mention in the newspapers and minimal consequences in the courts. The statement of a judge, sentencing one player to thirty days in jail, says it all: “to be served after football season.”
by JoeCarr on Jan 18, 2012 10:23 AM PST reply actions 5 recs
good, well documented.
no bear, no care
by EchoOfSilence on Jan 18, 2012 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
This was 12 years, 4 coaches, and two ADs ago.
I’ve always liked Cal…. my second favorite team in the Pac. I guess I can understand the vitriol but the complete meltdown on this blog is unwarranted.
by wobbly wobbly on Jan 18, 2012 2:15 PM PST up reply actions
dude. it's a sports blog.
irrational vitriol is the life blood.
that said, we rarely complain when someone leaves and they’re not a douche about it.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Jan 18, 2012 2:34 PM PST up reply actions
Moving forward
Looking forward to see who we’ll bring on board. We supposedly already have a new WR coach.
This just really goes to show how much Keiasu went about this better. I’m 100% sure Tedford knew he wasn’t gonna have Keiasu and was given time to find a new guy in advance. Hence, us having someone the day after.
Tosh?
Yeah Keiasu has certainly gotten a whole lot less flak over this than Tosh.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions
Oop...
….well, except that Kiesau was with the unmentionable one at DLS today trying to flip one of our recruits.
That was a really unnecessary #nohomo, I gotta say.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
As a daWg fan I felt (mildly) bad for Cal having stolen two of your coaches. We’d been through the same thing losing our db coach and some recruits to UCLA, and our OC to ’bama so I figured we were feeling some of the same pain. But WOW, talk about a lot of butthurt libel going on over here!!
All of this nasty character assasination based on “trust me, I have good sources (PS I hate the guy’s guts, but I’m being totally objective)”??? Are there no reasonable Cal fans who see this all as a MASSIVE over-reaction? I’d be pissed to — I was upset at Martin & Mora (big time UW fan/alum) stealing recruits — but this vitriol is excessive and doesn’t reflect well on the fan base.
Like the Husky fans give a shit about reflecting well. At least we don’t drive away in state recruits with you. What a dickhead post.
I appreciate the fact that boWdown_ is acting really UWish, but I do not think there is a need for personal attacks.
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: Read It | Follow It | Like It | Wear It
All of this nasty character assasination based on "trust me, I have good sources (PS I hate the guy’s guts, but I’m being totally objective)"?
At this point, we’ve basically had it confirmed by a reporter who’s basically a program insider. It might seem like it’s not reliable info to you, but I’m pretty confident in it now, and I was one of the lone holdouts waiting for real confirmation before making a judgment.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Ok, I don’t know the local media like you do… and you seem like a reasonable fan (haven’t called me a “dickhead” yet)… but even if the gist of it is true, I don’t understand the need to crap all over the man after he’s already gone. Honestly, I couldn’t tell you who our last dline coach was (he got fired, our dline was terrible)… was Tosh really that well known/beloved with the fan base? This whole thing is playing out like a nasty divorce… and honestly, from the UW perspective, Cal fans are coming off like the bat**** crazy ex.
There have been multiple reports
that seem to point in this same direction.
This includes tweets by players saying they had no idea.
All the evidence is pointing in a certain direction.
If you follow it all, perhaps you’d understand better. It’s unwise to assume that we’re all crazy considering we’re a random sampling of people with our only connection being Cal fans.
Fair enough… I haven’t followed the Cal side besides this thread. Interesting perspectives. I’m excited to have the guy if he envokes such passion!
Well, do remember… With the way shit went down just now, I highly doubt recruits and their parents will equate ‘loyalty, integrity, and family" with him anymore. They might still like him and he’ll probably continue to be a great recruiter, but I don’t think he carries this with him (the insane fan-base) wherever he chooses to go.
Speak for yourself!
It’s unwise to assume that we’re all crazy

Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Jan 18, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
We still give a sh*t
because recruiting season is still open. After it’s over, he will only exist as a bad memory.
You come off as a gloating dickhead. Go to the bathroom, get your picture of Tosh on your cell phone and do yourself proud. Get the hell out of here. Unwelcome nitwit.
Cal fans are coming off like the bat**** crazy ex.
If reports are true, this is the college-football equivalent of the following: Your girlfriend of many years tells you the relationship isn’t working and that she thinks she wants to see other people. You’re devastated. You ask her if anything is going on. She admits she’s been flirting with this guy you work with who you really hate. You talk it out and you decide to try to make things work. You go on a trip, and come back to find out that she’s left you for the guy, taken your stuff, and telling everybody you are a horrible person.
Coaches come and go all the time, words are exchanged, promises broken, recruits stolen; its all the name of the game these days. But what I think makes this situation particularly tender, and your analogy apt, is the apparent affection the fans had for Tosh. Most CFB fans can’t name their dline coach, but I’m assuming your average Cal fan saw Tosh as a “franchise” guy, in for the long term; a possible Tedford replacement. I’m trying to understand the depth of the emotion I’m seeing, please correct me if I’m wrong.
We’ve said this in other threads, I’ll say it again.
You know that coach from Oregon State you guys just got? He was quoted saying he would never think of continuing to do what Tosh is doing now because it’s unethical. You know Lane Kiffin? That piece of shit scumbag down in SC that doesn’t seem to have any morals? HE stayed away from shit like this when he left Tennessee. Doesn’t that tell you something about what just went down?
It’s not the fact that Tosh left that spurred up Cal’s fan base, it’s how he did it. Burning every and any bridge on the way, middle fingers up, not showing any class whatsoever. Telling currently committed athletes NOT to go to Cal, even though he was the one that got them to commit. Not telling the players currently at Cal that were DEVOTED to him that he was leaving, having them find out through ESPN. What’s left?
I still haven’t seen a response or retort to this.
Tony Gonzalez? University of California?
by ikoolykedat on Jan 18, 2012 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
I got nothing
recruiting is a nasty business. football’s not as bad as basketball yet… yikes, some people get their feelings hurt over basketball recruits! You should have seen how pissed UW fans were about Terrance Jones last year!
What further explanation do you need?
There’s been 3 huge threads about this already. It’s obviously evoking a lot of emotion.
Now, either get the fuck out, or GTFO.
by CaliforniaBone on Jan 18, 2012 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
That's part of it.
The other part is HOW he went – leaving at (almost) the worst possible moment, in (almost) the worst possible way, and clearly attempting to tear down the stellar recruiting class he just built up and got us excited about. If he’d done it classy – even with the possible salary shenanigans between him and Tedford – that is, he’d been open with the kids he coached, he’d been open with the kids he was recruiting, he’d been open with Tedford, and he’d not tried to openly and immediately steal the recruits before anybody at Cal even knew what just happened – then I think we’d have a DOOOOOM thread (cause of timing and his just plain awesomeness as a future recruiter and coach) but not the bitterness. The how is what is deriving the bitterness.
by HelloBowlesHall on Jan 18, 2012 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
He was a homegrown guy, played for us, was a great story. People were thinking he could be a DC and maybe even Tedford’s successor one day. He was a guy we were all convinced bled blue and gold. His recruiting and coaching successes were to a degree that we weren’t used to, and it was really exciting that a guy like that was one of our own. He was pretty much the last guy we figured would do this, in this fashion.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 12:14 PM PST up reply actions
was Tosh really that well known/beloved with the fan base?
Yes, he was more than just your normal positional coach. He was homegrown – local kid who was a starter on the team within the last decade, then went to GA, eventually became the youngest full-time coach in program history, was a top recruiter in the country selling Cal because all indications were he loved in that much, looked like he’d eventually move up at Cal (I’ve read some reports that he was next in line for d-coordinator when Clancy left, which could have been as early as now if an NFL job came calling)…so, yes. Losing him for more $ is one thing, but the way he left the program….
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
What you call character assassination we call character definition
To illustrate the point, you come over here to tell us how unbecoming it is for Cal fans to behave so butthurt that Lupoi left Cal for UW.
What’s it to you? Why should you care how we feel? There are only two reason I can think of:
(1) you want to rub it in; which proves you have no empathy whatsoever in spite of Martin & Mora moving to UCLA, or
(2) you’re ashamed of how your head coach has behaved in this and worry that it’s really a reflection on you. I’ll give you a hint: it isn’t unless you try to cover for his sorry a$$.
Character definition.
"We do not seek men who will bravely lie down to die, but men who will fight valiantly to live."
"Winning is not everything. It is far better to play the game squarely and lose than to win at the sacrifice of an ideal."
-- Andrew Latham Smith
#2, PLUS...
…..it’s still recruiting season and the Ice Dogs would rather Lupaid stayed squeaky clean so he can be more effective in stealing our recruits. Must do the damage control!
Well if you want to make this about me, I’d have to admit I don’t give a **** about your feelings. I was linked to this thread assaulting the character of a University of Washington football coach, and I wanted to get a better understanding of how he left, why he left, and what the relevant local sentiment was regarding his departure.
I now have a better understanding of the man (after filtering out the noise) and have high expectations for him in his new position. The football program has no reflection on me, as Tedford’s program has no reflection on you… but if you insist I rub something in:
“3 – 0 in 3 years baby!” & 49-38-4 all time
Peace
umadd.gif
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Well, by no means should we rumor monger
Unless the rumor mongering suits our agenda.
If you’re going to be publicly offended when former Cal players openly, under their own names, are willing to discuss injury-gate, then how do you justify trumpeting multiple unnamed sources leading you to incendiary conclusions that you think justify use of the terms “traitor” and “backstab”? You can call it an opinion piece, but you’re also taking several strings of hearsay coming 48 hours after a terrifically emotional incident and making a case that it’s fact. You can say the sources are reliable, but unless they were actually there and are willing to go on the record, then it’s essentially the same thing as Gorcey’s sources saying it was Clancy’s idea to fake injuries. (By the way, you seem to be citing Faraudo’s piece as evidence that Tosh didn’t show up for a plane trip with Tedford, but I keep looking for it in the piece and all I see is that Tedford was flying Monday, which is not the same thing.)
I guess the reasoning is that was bad for Cal so that was airing-dirty-laundry, but this is bad for an assistant at UW so it’s okay?
Look, I think there’s probably a lot of truth here. There’s probably more to injury-gate than we know. And Tosh would have an entirely different view of events. There are complicated men, with complicated emotions and egos, caught in the middle of this. When you’re talking about a decade long relationship working closely together, with evolution from player/coach to coach/GA, to coach/rising star, all in the public eye and with tremendous pressure, stuff is going to happen.
For my part, I find the whole thing incredibly distasteful and sleazy. There’s probably been more sleaziness on Tosh’s part in the last week, but I also think there’s probably plenty to go around over the course of their relationship. Reading about money and egos and adults playing with kids’ futures like they’re a commodity is not why I follow college sports. I got fascinated by the soap opera aspects of all this, but in the end I just feel empty, and the taste is not dissimilar to the taste in my mouth after the Bozeman drama (although I realize this is not nearly on that scale).
So I’m done. Life’s too short. I’m going to go back to basking in the illusion that the guys representing my alma mater on Thursdays and Saturdays are good and virtuous bastions of what is just and right in the world of amateur sports and public education, fighting hoards of evil invading Trojans and Huskies and trees.
All the stuff about what’s happened in this multi-million dollar drama that also involves the futures of multiple young men should be made public. So have at it. I just want to read about actual sports, though. So see y’all for the game tomorrow. Go Bears. Beat the Huskies.
Too early for reasonable reflection
Right now the fight is still on.
Recruiting season is still in full bore.
People have been wrong and positions need to be filled.
After signing day, we can have our kumbaya reflection and discuss the finer points of Confucius.
But right we might fight-or-flight and I choose to fight.
If UW get Shaq I will be super-f*king-pissed. Same goes for Jordan Payton. Of course I will not be mad at them. I wish them the best of luck wherever they go. I’m taking all this out on Tosh, UW and Sark.
We’ve already lost McCarthy, Shittu and possibly Armstead in this whole debacle. To have such a calm demeanor this early makes me feel like we’re lying down and letting sh*t just roll over us.
Don't Get Mad, Get Even
First off, can we give Washington to Canada. Seriously, what is the point of that state. Second, if this is "just business" like the flea infested dogs of the North insist then let’s act like business people. When you get screwed in business, you don’t rant, you sue. NCAA Bylaw 13.01.3 (Off-Campus Recruiting) states "Representatives of an institution’s athletics interests are prohibited from making in-person, on- or off-campus recruiting contacts, or written or telephonic communications with a prospective student-athlete or the prospective student-athlete’s relatives or legal guardians." To$h’s hiring may have been announced, but I doubt seriously whether UW has completed the paperwork to put him on the payroll. If that is the case, then legally he is not a UW coaching staff member (easy enough to find out). If my suspiscion is correct, To$h is an illegal free agent recruiter and UW should be put on sanctions.
That stuff doesn’t get announced until the paperwork is complete. Tosh went directly from the employ of Cal to UW… there was no intermediate period where he was an unpaid booster. Perhaps, as has been alleged, he mentioned his prospective plans to a recruit, which I grant you are warranted to take exception to, but it wouldn’t be considered illegal AFAIK.
Welcome, friend
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
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Tosh is a whore
He serviced two employees one after another without taking the time to cleanse. One other tidbit that needs to be revealed about Tosh is that Sark is paying a bonus to Tosh for every 5* recruit he steals from cal. So recruits, see Tosh for what he really is. You are nothing more than $$$ to him.
5-star on which recruiting services?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
I blame high housing prices in CA
The insanely high housing prices around here are the root of the problem. He only made what, $160k here? And he undoubtedly is continually exposed to the very wealthy in the bay area. On this salary, he could afford a really shitty $450k house in Berkeley. To live pleasantly (2500 sqft. house, 3 car garage, nice neighborhood with good schools) in the East Bay requires a ton of freaking money. $160k is chump change around here, and he probably felt increasingly ‘poor’ each year as he compared himself with the very rich (despite earning in the top 10% in the country, and top 0.1% of the planet). Many of us can probably relate – maybe we make a decent wage, but it just doesn’t get you much around here in terms of big ticket lifestyle items.
And high housing prices in places like Berkeley is really propped up by Prop. 13.
So I say, if we want Cal recruiting and coaching to rebound, we need to abolish Prop. 13, and hope for a severe housing downturn. Are you with me?
When a defensive line coach earning $160k can afford to live well (in subjective terms) in Berkeley, we will have a chance at keeping coaching talent.
We can’t afford ourselves!
P.S. His character sucks, and I’m 100% behind Avi. The haters can hate Avi (and me), they just want to justify making the same kind of scummy decisions themselves when it suits them. Character counts, and sometimes character means not doing the scummy thing for $$$, even if it’s legal.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Jan 18, 2012 2:40 PM PST reply actions
More money, bigger responsibility, etc… In my mind, if Tosh Lupoi was really dedicated to the CAL program, he would have never left.
"I've got a theory that if you give 100% all of the time, somehow things will work out in the end."
--- Larry Bird
by Army_of_One_Nation(Celtic's Nation) on Jan 18, 2012 2:58 PM PST reply actions
Saban, Meyer, Kiffin, Orgeron, Luopi
what the hell spawned these evil demons?
"I spent 90 percent of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted!"
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Saban, Meyer, Kiffin, Orgeron, Luopi
what the hell spawned these evil demons?
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
Jeff Tedford gave Kiffin his first coaching job.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
The other side
I’m a loyal CGB reader, but I tend to stay away from the comments (I’m afraid of trolls). First off, I’m as angry and frustrated as many of you. I truly thought that this year’s recruiting class would be a game changer and am crushed that is going sideways quickly. Anyway, a few hours ago I saw the tweet that Tosh was at De La Salle recruiting, and decided to contact a friend who coaches there. I wanted to get his take on Tosh, and see what he knew. Turns out he was standing right near Tosh at the time, and spoke to him briefly about what went down. Here’s the story that was relayed to me:
1. Tosh went to Tedford after receiving the initial offer from UW, and told him that he knew Cal couldn’t match the money but that he wanted two things to stay (a) a multiple-year contract (he had been apparently working under one-year contracts), and (b) assurance that he would become the DC when the current DC left.
2. Tedford asked for time to try to work this out, but didn’t get back to Tosh for more than 10 days. At which point Tosh contacted Tedford and told him he was leaving.
Now I’m am not trying to defend Tosh here. I honestly don’t know exactly what went down. But the story is so different than the other accounts, that I thought I should share the information. If even part of this other story is true (and I hope that it’s not), it does not give me confidence in the long-term stability of our football staff, and its ability to get us where we all want to go (Pasadena in January).
If that’s true, then how did the offer magically get from $300K to $550K? Or did UW offer $550K straight up from the start?
That seems pretty doubtful.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t know the whole story, only what was relayed to me based on a short conversation with a friend. I’ll share more if I hear anything, but I doubt we’ll ever know the whole story. Frankly I don’t know whether to believe it or not but, at least for me, this cast a different light on the situation.
Well, I’m sure Tosh has (or has come up with) a story to tell in which he comes off in a much more positive light, but suffice it to say I am extremely skeptical of the sequence of events you described.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
Did you hear that the Italian cruise ship captain is now claiming that he didn’t abandon the ship — he tripped and fell off of it. Maybe Tosh tripped and landed in Seattle?
CGB: The Strangest Blog
hahahah yeah something like that.
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 6:28 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah it doesn’t seem like a narrative that could possibly fit in with any of the details we’ve heard. It pretty much contradicts them all entirely.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
reactions
1a sounds like a reasonable request, and assuming such multi-year contracts are at all common (are they?), then I would hope that Tedford and co. could have met this demand
1b is ridiculous. You can’t honestly promise a future job that would open up who knows when, especially to such an inexperienced, junior member of your staff. I suspect Tedford probably said something to this effect, which helped pushed the ambitious Lupoi out the door. If so, I’m on Tedford’s side here, and I pity poor Lupoi in the future when some other coach inevitably reneges on a similar “promise”. Pay your dues, young Tosh, and if you’re as good a coach as you think you are, your time will come.
2 leaves open far too many questions, and it’s hard to believe that there was no further discussion for a whole ten days
3 This story still doesn’t change the fact that Lupoi was dubiously at De La Salle trying to flip a kid he had recruited to Cal. This is the key ethical fail that I think upsets so many of us now that a couple days have passed since the news first broke
And thanks for sharing the story, by the way. Everything we’re reading is heresy, so it’s nice to get multiple perspectives, even if no single one of them can be trusted.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jan 18, 2012 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
*hearsay
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 18, 2012 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
You can’t honestly promise a future job that would open up who knows when
Sounds a lot like the HC-in-waiting stuff to me.
"#caltrollgang" - RB
Right, but even worse because it depends on the actions of a third party.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Agreed – I think that actually IS something that’s possible at the college football level.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 7:27 PM PST up reply actions
Regarding 1a, I was told by my friend (who used to in the AD at St. Mary’s) that multi-year contracts are more the norm rather than the exception. He found it unbelieveable that Tosh was working on single year contracts this whole time.
Regarding 1b, I agree that it is an unrealistic request and that’s the primary source of my skepticism on this whole story.
Regarding 2, I’m sure there’s more to that part of the story. I just didn’t have time to get into it.
On your last point, I specifically asked if he was there to flip Barton and was told “absolutely not.”
Again, take all of this for what it is worth…hearsay and heresy!
Thanks for both your readership, CalBear8, and your information. WHo knows what the truth is?
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: Read It | Follow It | Like It | Wear It
Also, PS, I look forward to confusing you with CalBear81
In the Game of Trolls, you either troll or you die.
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: Read It | Follow It | Like It | Wear It
Avinash Kunnath Article
Since we are conjecturing…
1. Let’s suppose as Mr. Kunnath has: (with a different take)
2. The our HC and our DC have control of game and practice procedure and no asst C would send in a signal to fake an injury without their knowledge.
3, The assit C becomes the fall guy
4. He is further ‘humiliated’ because the HC asked him to take the fall, and, now publicly postures discipline by announcing that our loyal and honest AC was being disciplined and would not be allowed to coach the last game of the season.
5, Our coaches coach at a school where Bureaucracy, (a system controls the organization), AD SB words; ‘…appreciate our community’s willingness to assist in the effort…to have then remain at CAL…’ ‘Community’ at CAL means the bureaucracy…
now let’s suppose Tosh went to CJ upfront, and in fact was respectful and ‘wanted’ to remain at CAL but needed immediate solid up-front input! Considering he was approached by ‘Sark’ at the Coach of the Year clinic, and ‘every’ coach on our staff knew what it was about well before January 16th; including CJ..
He asked for a raise,,,He told Jeff that he was offered $350,000 but would stay at CAL for less…AND, (remembering the word Bureaucracy to make a point), Jeff said I understand and I will do my best but ‘I cannot promise anything’ as you know the school is in a financial crunch…Jeff then tells Tosh he will talk to SB she will talk to the Chancellor, and it may require support form the board and or Grid Club…No promises…
Meanwhile ’CS" because the $$$ made from football goes to football not the general fund, as it does at CAL, illustrates that at Washington, communications are direct, decisive, immediate, and clear!
Let’s suppose CS is waiting for Tosh, for days, and Tosh is waiting on communications from CAL…But the communications are vague, ambiguous, and just feel like you are NOT really wanted, and you need to dicker and debate! …It really hurts but you have to face the reality of a ‘system’ which controls the organization and how that works versus face to face upfront discussion. Now we begin to ‘see’ that both Tosh and CJ are causalities of something that needs fixing at CAL…But we miss that point, just as the admin. hopes we will and we turn on each other…!
Lets’ also suppose that we do have some arrogance in the way we do things and think…Is ti possible that no coach has come to CAL and brought recruits… Because they had none to bring! It is so arrogant to feel that when someone, in our ‘opinion’ does anything contrary to our values we can use words like ‘back stabber’ ‘slime’ and they ‘suck’ but when we steal Jason Kid for example. away, its business!~
More about our intolerable arrogance…It is a ‘fact’ that to the man these recruits said they were coming to CAL because of a relationship they had with Tosh…NOT because of CAL!
So Tosh builds a relationship, and the man verbally commits based on that
‘relationship,’ and Tosh is slime because he tries to influence that relationship he built with the man, and CAL is wonderfully arrogant to believe because Tosh was their property so anyone who he talks to, belongs to CAL! Seriously!
let’s also suppose that CAL is an ‘entitlement’ school and some coaches are hired, given positions and titles because it is designated, NOT earned…AND, let’s further suppose that in 4 years this practice and policy at CAL happens repeatedly. And after other asst C are hired Tosh is NEVER pro-actively given a raise, instead he is glossed over, and each time a position asst, is hired that new hire is designated titles, position, and a far better salary! At the end of tenor and effort, Tosh is the lowest paid asst. coach! What! Finally he makes a demand for a raise, and after some ‘debate,’ and a lot more bureaucracy his salary is raised…But remains the least rewarded for his stellar efforts…
Let’s suppose that the ‘range’ of perception by us at CAL is limited! Let’s suppose that when someone has put in 12 years of their life, dedication, and devotion, and developed relationships with ‘players’ and coaches, as well as so many others, they DO love CAL, but they will always be a ‘first impression;’ a player, a kid, a GA in the eyes of Jeff…No ones fault its just the depth of perception…How many years would you continue for the love of CAL! 1,2,3,4, more…With that reality!
FACT: At the press conference where Tosh was awarded the 2010 Rivals National Recruiter of the Year Award, Jeff said; it’s NOT about Tosh…It is about CAL, the other coaches, etc. etc., According to the recruits it is ‘all’ about their relationship with Tosh, and it cannot be conjectured…According to the ‘players’ it is ‘all’ about their relationship with Tosh. The recruits TOSH recruited, normally headed for schools like Alabama, said it was about Tosh not CAL1 Is this not loud and clear to us! Are we really this arrogant and foolish!
…Life is about our life stories, and the life stories of role models, all along the way, not some essay in journalism, or psych class, or BS media report! Tosh has a life story he tells and it applies at CAL or Washington, or Jones Middle School! He tells us like it is and was, and it means something! What you ‘see’ and ‘hear’ him say in public, to the press, is what people, and the ‘system’ expects and wants…What we hear and see is very different, truthful, encouraging, and meaningful…It adds to our life story as anyone with any class would most desire…
It grabs you! It makes you want to be the best you can be! And we take it personally when our coach is slammed, you don;t know what he told us, and when…He is to humble, face-up, forthright, and personally interested in and caring about us…His heart is broken way more than ours!
And you know what… Keep writing garbage like this and more recruits are going to say ‘that school is like all the rest, a bunch of hypocrites! It’s business, and everyman for himself!
We love you coach!
We will miss you, and hopefully when we meet again the fires will be burning…
Go get em…cause the bears are coming!
Go Bears!
It amazes me that someone would put so much effort into something so flatly incomprehensible.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
I’m still trying to figure out who CS is. Carl Sagan? Christian Slater?
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jan 18, 2012 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
I LOL'd - well played!
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
These recruits came to Cal because of Tosh and Tosh alone?
I have a feeling you’re going to be sorely disappointed by that sentiment come signing day.
Also, regardless of whether any of this is true, it does not change the fact that Tosh is recruiting players for two different schools in the same year, much less players who have already committed to the first school in question. That behavior is inexcusable in coaching circles.
by Avinash Kunnath on Jan 18, 2012 7:29 PM PST up reply actions
what is worse
are the reports that he’s pushing kids he recruited to Cal not just to go to UW (which, although unethical, is at least understandable), but that he’s also pushing them to go places like ucla or notre dame – anywhere but Cal! If that is true, it is truly remarkably unethical.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Almost your whole post is focused on reasons Tosh may have wanted to move on. That’s fine, but kind of misses the point. He may have had legit reasons to move on, including a raise. That’s fine, it’s certainly within his right to do so. Most people here understand that – I know I certainly do, if I had a job in the Bay Area (where I want to be) making $160k a year, and was offered the same job in Seattle for $500k (and a boat!), I would almost certainly take the job offer. I could handle living up there for a while for that kind of money. The real issue is about the way he left. That’s what he did wrong. It wasn’t that he wasn’t that he took the job. It was the way he left – burning bridges with everyone at the organization apparently, as well as not even telling his players and then actively recruiting against Cal (and even telling recruits not to go to Cal) before Cal even knew he was leaving? Yeah, that’s not the right way to leave.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
no need to be an apologist
There is a lot of rationalization and defensiveness in the note above.
The fact is Tosh was able to recruit and establish relationships because of Cal. Yes, maybe he could have done this elsewhere but it was a partnership. It is egomaniacal to think these recruits belong to him. Who outlayed the resources, the airfare, the technology, the facilities (etc)? It is hard, I understand, because he has developed relationships with these remarkable individuals but he did not do this alone and he did not handle himself honorably.
The honorable thing: thank Coach Tedford for the opportunity to start his career at Cal, thank Cal for the great years, and the players for their efforts. There are a number of others who have changed programs and all site it as unethical to recruit players that they recruited from their former employer. If there are recruits who approach you and say, “Hey I really want to be a part of what you are doing” you do not have to turn them down but to actively recruit the recruits you were moments ago recruiting to Cal without a public statement of gratitude for the fact that through your job at Cal and the hardwork you put in there (don’t forget recruiting for Cal with their academic program, their location, new facilities and relative coaching stability is a lucky position to find yourself in to begin with and might have something to do with your rapid rise in reputation as recruiter Lets see how well he would do at Idaho State ) you were able to score a boat, and $500K a year job.
Lets just say I have worked a lot harder than Tosh, every day, for a lot longer, and with more serious matters to address and I wouldn’t be bitter about being a part of a program that led me to receive Tosh’s UW offer.
To complain about being passed up by other coaches when you are only 28, 29 years old — come on. From your hard work you will get noticed. Tosh was being noticed. He had at least a DC coordinator position in his midst (maybe not from Cal) in the next couple years. But maybe not a boat, maybe not $500K a year.
But from what we are seeing now: this young man unfortunately has lost his grounding and moral compass.
The redeeming thing for him to do now and repair his reputation is to make a public statement of support to his former employer, acknowledge that he was confused by the decisions and motivations for the decisions he was making and express that he made some mistakes and missteps in the transition but he is grateful to all who have supported him through his career.
You seem to be someone connected with Tosh and it might be good to get him this feedback
Go Bears!
As an aside: I have heard rumors that his contract boasts a 10K bonus for each 5star recruit he gets to sign to the UW. Sorry but this is what is wreaks with the hypocrisy of the NCAA. Tosh shouldn’t get this money — if it is singled out to someone it should be singled out to the talent themselves not the recruiter. Tosh gets rich off someone elses gifts!
by Landsurveryor on Jan 18, 2012 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Under California law, it is actually illegal for an employee to use information he obtained while employed by one employer for the benefit of a new employer, or to actively solicit customers he worked with at the old employer to change to the new one. Typically, this comes up in the context of salesmen who move to a new company and try to lure their customers away from the old company. This rule exists precisely because the employee obtained that information while being paid by the first employer, and using the first employer’s resources. Thus, it is the property of the first employer.
CGB: The Strangest Blog
by CalBear81 on Jan 18, 2012 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Insights
If what you say is true your points are excellent and I agree.
The problem is my points:
The press conference and comments by CT about Tosh; The comments By SB and CT regarding his departure; the comment about being overlooked for ‘understandable’ reasons…etc.We do not have the funds…are factual and publicly documented, and true…CAL is a football program where bureaucracy is a matter of fact…And CAL is an institution that has all the funds from Football placed in a general fund…etc…My point was more to support CT for the very difficult situation he is in, versus a coach at W…Is it possible that these fine men, both of them, are in a very difficult situation, as compared to other programs…Is this a discussion that merits our attention? Is this great university really about a coach?
We don’t want any coach or fan to unnecessarily go through this again…We want CT to be able to have the same playing field as any other coach in the PAC 12…
Let’s lay the blame where it belongs…At the very top!
NOT on good coaches who face enough pressure as it is…
And, please to compare age and $$$, and NOT understand that a coach like Tosh, making $164,000 regardless of age, who had been identified as the #1 recruiter in the United Sates at the D! Two years in a row… needs to wait when his boss makes $2.8M, come on! That’s embarrassing…
Time will tell. If as you claim it is all about CAL, then who cares about Tosh…If what you say is accurate, why are we worried, as the athletes were coming to CAL to be at CAL, regardless of who recruited them…And Tosh owes CAL, because as you say, without the support from CAL to recruit and so forth, Tosh is nobody…
So why all the concern! Nobody went to W…
Bare Sense - Shame on you, sir!
For making excuses for the inexcusable!
For trying to justify the unjustifiable!
For trying to take the “shit” out of chickenshit!
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
It amazes me...
That is why you don’t coach! You want to talk about a big mac! Not your experience! The players that we want are motivated by true experiences, not dinner out!
Go bears!
I appreciate the dedication you put into your art.
Running your replies through Babelfish is a nice touch.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
It sounds to me like this is someone who might have been recruited by Tosh, and that this is someone who cares deeply about him and CAL. I think that’s all he’s saying here.
It does not amaze me!
now i just read you hope to be a politician…I get it! good luck!
I believe he is responding to AERose’s rather distinctive sig which references politics and fast food.
Old Toothwrangler
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that relieves some of the confusion. I'll still have to kill him for saying I'd ever have anything to do with a politician, though.
(Katanas on the beach at dawn, in case you were wondering.)
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
To$h abandoned his so called family of players without saying a word. The people who supposedly were closest to him. Then we went behind everyone’s back and tried to persuade players away from the team he supposedly bled for! Two-face scum tactic.
Ursus arctos californicus – California golden bear
by berkeleyboy510 on Jan 18, 2012 7:31 PM PST via iPhone app reply actions
Doesn't this pretty much prove that Tosh left at the last second
and had no ill intentions towards Cal. I am am honestly okay with you guys hating UW and such but it just seems like so much misinformation is being ran with. I honestly am not trying to troll or stir things up either. It just seems like if you read this statement you can tell this was a last second decision. He thought he was going to stay at call as late as Sunday night.
Rumors swirled about Lupoi leaving for Washington. Lupoi met with the McCarthys on Sunday and, according to Ed, when he was asked about him leaving Lupoi was adamant about staying at Cal.
“He sat at our house and said, ’I’m not going anywhere,’” Ed said. "There were articles everywhere that he was leaving but he said he wasn’t going anywhere, and then he accepts the job (Monday).
“You can’t fault Tosh for leaving. It’s the nature of the business.”
http://www.insidesocal.com/paspreps/2012/01/breaking-news-monrovias-ellis-1.html
Well, he told Shaq otherwise Sunday night. I think there probably is some misinformation as far as the details of what happened, but the general storyline has basically been confirmed by a reliable source.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
(A reliable source who has inside information)
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 7:39 PM PST up reply actions
But at least we can agree on the fact that it wasn’t some malicious thing where he wanted to hurt Cal. Where he knew all along he was going to UW and wanted to hurt Cal in the process. He may have received the offer he couldn’t refuse in between the meeting with McCarthy & Shaq and knew Cal couldn’t match and still was wrestling with the decision. Shaq may have asked him about it and he answered honestly that he didn’t know. That statement that I found from Mr. McCarthy is completely independent of all discussion about this so I don’t see why he would make that up. As of Sunday night when he met with McCarthy he was 100% adamant he was staying at Cal. I am not sure of the order in which he met the two kids but that at least seems plausible.
I just think for a guy you were all so fond of that it sucks that you think he was such a malicious person. How do you like him for all those years and then think he had all sorts of ill intentions when leaving Cal? I just don’t see that as the case.
no, we can't
what is worse
are the reports that he’s pushing kids he recruited to Cal not just to go to UW (which, although unethical, is at least understandable), but that he’s also pushing them to go places like ucla or notre dame – anywhere but Cal! If that is true, it is truly remarkably unethical.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Where are the reports?
I don’t know what incentive he would have to do that. That sounds like a baseless rumor to me which is entirely what you guys are crucifying him for.
Bigtrain21
And if the “rumors” are NOT baseless, what is your position then? Still defend him to the death just because you think he is a good recruiter and he is coming to your school?
If you would do this then you would also defend Paris Hilton or Cheeta if you thought they were good recruiters, right?
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
That's the thing
No one knows. Just all sorts of rumors and innuendos that all sorts of bad things went down when no one knows a thing.
I have no position because I don’t know just like Cal fans should probably wait to hear his side before jumping to conclusions.
Riding that fence, eh?
Let me repeat as I noticed you neatly skirted the question:
And if the "rumors" are NOT baseless, what is your position then?
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
Some of the stuff I would have a huge problem with.
I wouldn’t like that he was telling other recruits to not go to Cal and instead go to UCLA or Notre Dame.
I wouldn’t like that he was recruiting for UW while in the home of a Cal prospect the night before.
I wouldn’t like he knew about about wanting to leave and was waiting to the last second to screw over Cal as much as he could.
I really don’t think any of those things are true though.
Truth? It will come to the surface, eventually.
What I DO see as true, as an unbiased 3rd party, is that he bailed dead square in the middle of the most imprtant recruting weeks. He also turned right around and started pursueing Cal COMMITS after joing UW. And he did leaves Cals HC in the lurch on a trip he was supposed to be on. This little escapade begs the question as to why he didn’t tell Tedford BEFORE the trip because there is no way you are going to make me believe he didn’t already know he was going to UW. Down here in Texas, we call this chickenshit!
Finally, if the things you don’t believe happened (why are you taking this position anyway – do YOU have different info?) DID happen, would you want him recruiting for your school anyway?
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
by Snide Aside on Jan 18, 2012 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I get being underappreciated and all the ramifications that come with it but when you clear out in the middle of the night with no warning and are immediately in contact with recruits that morning when your employers don’t even know yet and start not only recruiting for your new program the guys you recruited for Cal but tell them, “DON’T GO TO CAL?”
This isn’t coming as just rumor and innuendo. This is from a source who, when he gives out info, is pretty much always giving inside information.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
Man, it seems no one from UW here bothers to read any of our posts and expect us to just answer everything for them 18 million times. And then they either disagree, ask again somewhere else, or just continue to say the same things.
I get the same impression from Cal fans because you don’t know what happened yet you guys are burning him at the stake. You don’t listen to any alternative ideas. I think the quote up above makes it pretty clear that he didn’t have any ill intentions towards Cal but if it makes you guys feel better to go after him because he left for more money then be my guest.
Btw, I had never seen what I posted above anywhere so if I was copying someone else or rehashing something it was unintentional.
We’ve talked this to death over the past three days.
You’re not changing our minds. We won’t change yours.
I’d recommend that we just leave it at that.
See you on the field.
Old Toothwrangler
That's probably the best idea
I just wish you guys would have facts before making your decision. This has really gotten out of hand. I certainly can’t say whether he was in the wrong or not. He may have been. We simply don’t have enough facts to know one way or the other though.
I can understand why it sucks to be on the other end of it because we were on the other end of it in mid December with Coach Martin when he left and took one of our verbals.
Anyway I hope you guys have a great recruiting class and I really wish no ill will on you guys. I don’t think Sark was being malicious by going after your coaches. I just think he had positions to fill and did his best with the resources he had to try to fill them.
Well, lest you think we’re just going nuts here, we’re basing our opinion on reputable info from a trusted and respected local insider reporter. You’d have to re-read a few thousand comments to find all the details, but they’ve been pored over in painstaking detail already.
Obviously, the casual fan would have no idea. I’m sure there are two sides and plenty of sordid details that will never see the light of day.
Everything said may not be true, but there are enough definite facts for us to be seriously displeased with the way that this went down. You seem like a decent fellow, so I hope you can understand that your plea for reason and “getting the facts” is a bit akin to trying to put out a wildfire with napalm right now.
Old Toothwrangler
I understand but some of the stuff that is getting put out there is part of a spin campaign or something. There is always two sides to every story.
I know the feeling though and am impressed that you guys have really passionate fans.
It’s not true, you know, that cliche that there are always two sides to every story. Most of the time, yes, there are two sides. But sometimes, one side is just dead wrong.
CGB: The Strangest Blog
What’s funny is that apparently what went down is even worse than what we’re saying because the sources don’t want to be responsible for telling us what REALLY happened. So even if there were two sides to the story, Tosh’s actions are most likely to be even more of a polar extreme and he obviously didn’t choose to be the better man. That’s enough for me to dislike his moves. No one said I couldn’t hate Tosh/UW and be extremely disappointed at the Cal AD at the same time. But for now, I have no reason to be pissed at Tedford/Sandy and all the reason to be mad at Tosh. If the need arises for me to add to my emotional distress, then I will do so.
I just wish you guys would have facts before making your decision.
See, that was me two days ago. At this point, we really are starting to get reliable information that suggests the reaction was earned on Tosh’s part.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
You don’t think it’s possible that he was lying to McCarthy like he did to everyone else? Your evidence is an interview. Our evidence is someone with inside information that hasn’t been really wrong on anything for years. HMMMM.
So he was lying to McCarthy and saying he would be staying at Cal and trying to get McCarthy to go to Cal for what reason? What incentive would he have to lie to McCarthy? If he knew he was leaving at that time why would he even make that in home visit to try to get McCarthy to Cal? You really need to take a deep breath and think about it.
As far as your inside sources I am not sure how they would know things like this. It was likely him and the recruits so your inside sources have know more knowledge of this than you and I.
No, the inside sources won’t have information on everything – for example, a meeting between Tosh and McCarthy if nobody else in the program was present. What we have been told is that the general narrative of how Tosh left was basically true. Doesn’t really leave room for another side of the story that would justify Tosh’s actions.
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
OK, so, absolute BEST case scenario...
Forget anything about conspiring with Sark or Wilcox or Kiesau or whatever to screw Cal. Forget about recruiting guys while on the Cal payroll or talking to them about his considering other schools. Forget having an offer in hand and maybe being one foot out the door the last day or days he was recruiting for Cal. Lets work off the assumption he received and accepted the UW offer sometime Sunday night with no premeditation:
First he accepts a position he has denied intending to take as recently as that same evening. Then he clears his office over a holiday weekend and is actively recruiting Cal commits to UW the NEXT MORNING sometime before or after quitting on the only boss and coach he’s ever worked for by voice mail. Without telling any of the players he recruited to Cal and had coached or GA’d for 1-5 years.
That’s the best possible scenario
But at least we can agree on the fact that it wasn’t some malicious thing where he wanted to hurt Cal. Where he knew all along he was going to UW and wanted to hurt Cal in the process.
I can’t agree with that. I can’t say anything one way or another – I have yet to see enough details to feel confident I know anything about that one way or another. For instance, I have yet to get a timeline I trust is accurate on when different offers were extended. If I have no idea when the offer was made, how could I really know one way or another anything about his intentions and the sincerity of what he was saying?
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 8:42 PM PST up reply actions
A little off topic but
Cal is the only other school landing top recruiting talent save for SC? Uh, hello? Oregon is not a ‘system’ recruiting school. Frankly, they consistently beat Cal in the recruiting rankings every year. For “top talent”. Losing Tosh is a kill-shot.
- Pained Bear
They're totally a system recruiting school!
It’s just their system is dudes who run really fucking fast.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Kind of this.
Not necessarily 5* guys, but guys who would work well within their system (fast). It’s important you have a QB who can do basic reads, run fast, and throw accurate short-to-mid balls. The receivers and running backs will do the rest. Ducks don’t need 5* offensive linemen because the target is a bit different from a more standard offense’s needs. Defense is more standard recruiting targets.
I would submit that Oregon's recruiting methods are a little suspicious - based on their recent history..
"We're Texas. We don’t derive our value or self-definition from conference affiliation.
If that strikes people as cocky, so what? It’s also true. None of us will chant our conference’s name when we have an off year and Texas Tech wins their bowl game. Our definition of self comes from us – not our conference, not our rivals, not media perception.
"Getting the band back together"
Lasted as long as about the last Van Halen reunion.
But they got back together again! Who’d-a-thunk-it!
"The next day he was on the phone with Shaq selling him on the virtues of UW. Who does that?"
Demetrice Martin.
"Attending Washington State is great preparation for real life. It teaches you not to expect too much."
You're right. Sark was sick of UW recruits flipping to Cal.
More importantly, he was sickened by the way Teford instructed UW verbal commits to handle it (specifically Bigelow last year). Specifically, to remain verbally committed to UW, per Tedford’s instructions, until signing day, but then sign with Cal. Leaving UW, and Sark, with no options; hence the scramble for UW to try to find replacement RB recruits – from anywhere – after signing day. UW didn’t find them.
So, after the SECOND YEAR of these tactics, Sark figured enough’s enough. And he screwed Tedford the way Tedford has had recruits screw UW.
PS – If Cal, and Tedford, are/is so great, why would a Cal grad, former Cal player and Cal coach, hang them out to dry like this?
Note: Might want to check into the hanging out of Lupoi for the fake injuries against Oregon.
Yeah, Cal, and Tedford, sure are ALWAYS about class.
wow, what a compelling story
too bad Bigelow publicly committed to Cal on December 10th, approximately 2 months before signing day. Whoops.
http://california.scout.com/2/1030158.html
I also like this little nugget from the article:
Despite being a verbal commit to Washington since January, Bigelow says Cal moved ahead of the Huskies in the spring after attending the Bears junior day in late February.
“I wanted to decommit and look at other schools,” said Bigelow. “But the [UW coaches] wouldn’t let me,” he chuckled.
And that takes care of your second explosive, completely fabricated claim about Bigelow. I guess you’ll be running along now, little man.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Jan 18, 2012 11:22 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Don’t count on it, CBK. Folks like Mr. shootin never seem know when the party’s over and it’s time to go home.
CGB: The Strangest Blog
21-6: UW vs Cal since the early 80s.
And your prized alumni won’t even choose to stay there with Tedford.
Tells me all I need to know about Cal.
Hope you’ve enjoyed your recent, albeit moderate, success. That was the highest the program will be… ever. Congratulations.
by gone-shootin on Jan 19, 2012 12:35 PM PST up reply actions
Nice work. I do wonder where those kinds of silly ideas come from – the ones that don’t even stand up to a little bit of fact-checking…
by Missing Barry on Jan 18, 2012 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
PS – If Cal, and Tedford, are/is so great, why would a Cal grad, former Cal player and Cal coach, hang them out to dry like this?
That massive bump in pay. If Cal were so horrible or if UW were a desirable destination, he would have left for less.
by TheScientist019 on Jan 19, 2012 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
Talk about LIES in recruiting!!....
“(Oregon is a system school and generally finds recruits tailored to their system).” ROFLMAO!!!!! BWA-AHA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!…. Is that why Oregon consistently has Top 25 recruiting classes of top level talent? Is that why Cal and Oregon have virtually the SAME number of players in the NFL? Your statement is idiotic…. And you call yourselves fans of “the best public university”… Tsk tsk.
Tosh is an able recruiter sure, but not a very good coach. He is better known for giving his DL scuba diving lessons than getting the most out of their talents.
Cal Football. Where top talent goes to be AVERAGE.
You signed up just to say this? We (Oregon) do, in fact, find recruits tailored to our system. We have gotten better and better classes with the increased success, but that isn’t anywhere close to an “idiotic statement”. Secondly, the “scuba diving lessons” thing has been thoroughly exhausted on this site and AddictedToQuack so please just save it.
Signing up for a blog of a team you don’t even root for and making your first post something like this just makes you look like a troll and reflects poorly on your own team’s fan base. Please stop.
by MarineCorpsDuck on Jan 19, 2012 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
One side issue
I am surprised at the level of discontent with Tedford especially on BI
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
by CalBear949 on Jan 19, 2012 9:41 AM PST via Android app reply actions
fickle
The least patient fans tend to be the ones who think that their school is special and has unique advantages even when the evidence should be clear that this isn’t the case. Cal has never been an easy place to win. Tedford’s 36-28 record over the past 5 “disappointing” years is still better than anyone since Pappy Waldorf, who retired in 1956! But since it’s not as good as his first 5 years (which of course represent Cal assuming its proper place in the world), he should be fired.
We will soon know the truth
All the conjecture about ‘the truth’ will soon be put to the test!
According to all accounts and from CT and SB they could NOT offer Tosh above $225,000 to keep him…
If they pay the new guy anything ‘substantially’ more…Especially close to the $300,000 Tosh asked for, they are liars! Simple… cut and dry! And,everything else about our ‘creditably’ ‘hinges’ on this one fact!
Think about it!
what is worse
are the reports that he’s pushing kids he recruited to Cal not just to go to UW (which, although unethical, is at least understandable), but that he’s also pushing them to go places like ucla or notre dame – anywhere but Cal! If that is true, it is truly remarkably unethical.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Blame Tedford and Cal. (Which people on here I have, I've found, a hard time doing.)
by gone-shootin on Jan 19, 2012 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
What is even worse
Are the reports reliable? Are they ‘verified’ by any athletes themselves? Or. as we read, and some say, the information comes from reliable insiders who cannot be named…Why not! Here is where it gets fuzzy…CT initial comments were very positive, as were SB. about the departure…AND the reason…NOW we are to believe CT witnessed Tosh recruit kids to W, while with him, the night before? If that were true I would imagine CT would fire him on the spot! And, more… express his outrage, immediately…Instead we get this input ‘days -after’ departure? Sorry it simply just does not ring true…And the stuff about Thompson, his relationship with Justin, and his teammate at W, and Tosh had him committed to CAL, only illustrates just how effective Tosh is…
And/or, and I am sure this is true, I am confused and missing something…On the one hand we seem to say CT and all the staff and CAL has all this to offer, and 1 coach can turn them away with a phone call in a few hours… Who is this guy!!!~ And how committed were these athletes in the first place to CAL if they could so quickly be turned to all these other schools if it is true about Tosh…The more believable scenario is simply this…They all read about it, as we did, and said good by to CAL! Tosh did NOT need to say anything…
If true that is even worse…Agree?
No...
I don’t think Tedford is remotely squeaky clean in this scenario. BUT
the reports are reliable, as the primary source are the recruits themselves, telling people what Tosh said to them with his own mouth and vocal cords.
Furthermore, even if we accept everything you say at face value (and you clearly are spinning it to make Tosh look good, whatever your motives), that does not excuse the fact that his behavior I mentioned in the comment above is INCREDIBLY unethical. This
“And how committed were these athletes in the first place to CAL if they could so quickly be turned to all these other schools if it is true about Tosh”
does not change the fact that Tosh pushing them away from Cal is just remarkably unethical, and if you can’t see that, you’re just blinded by the li-ight…revved up like a deuce another runner in the night (EVERYONE NOW) Blinded by the light…
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Really
Please point me to one evidence any kid himself has said while a coach at CAL tosh tried to recruit him to UW…Or, Tosh called and told them to go to UCLA etc…You ‘see’ if this were true it would be all over the wire and reported by the sports media and press! That is very big ‘juicy’ scoop for any reporter…Especially the CAL reporter who started this dialogue!
Instead all I ‘see’ and reads is disgruntled CAL fans expressing their frustration. Thus I am holding to my premise: Sooner or later CAL will hire a new D line coach…And if that guy receives anything close to the amount SB and CT said they could not possibly raise for Tosh…$300,000, and/or is the new ’recruiting coordinate, a tile coach Thompson now has, that Tosh wanted as co-coordinator but could not garner…
Case closed!
CT needed Tosh but did NOT want Tosh at CAL for whatever reason, anymore…
And all the conjecture, fall out and outrage, falls back on us…End of story!
You can’t tell one guy one thing and another guy something else and claim you are truthful!
So, the litmus test is about to occur…And, it is what it is…
Dogs or Dawgs...
Come on man, now you are sounding like a dog, not a dawg!
Come on.
BeastMode is amazing.
In all seriousness, the title of this story says it all. It was clearly written by an angry, irrational Cal fan and is based on multiple assumptions and hypothetical (if not crazy) scenarios. It hardly seems like a debate with any potential to be won or lost. The story is intended to create bad blood towards Washington, and somehow turn Cal and their respective fans into the innocent victims in the cutthroat world of recruiting. It is part of human nature and our defense mechanisms to replace grief with hatred because it’s simply easier to digest. Nobody knows what truly happened except for Tosh, including Tedford and Sark.
I think it’s important for programs to be ethical and hold themselves accountable. I think it’s important because they are setting an example not just for their student athletes but for the student body as a whole. If some of the allegations in this story are true, I will be disappointed. But for now, this is the time period where Cal fans whine and complain, twist facts in their head, feel sorry for themselves and sling mud. It’s inevitable and we’ve done this ourselves many times in the past as Huskies fans. The good news is, strong programs like Cal (and their alums) will recover and move on.
If some of the allegations in this story are true
The problem is that they are true.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
uhhh
we have tons of local media and well connected donors reporting it? Going to be tough for me to get Tosh on the phone right now it turns out…
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Please provide a link.
“He knew he was leaving for Washington the whole time and spent the whole time milking both sides for maximum value on his deal. That would be downright malicious, and would’ve meant Sarkisian and Lupoi had been planning this for awhile.
Why would they play this game? Only one reason comes to mind: The active sabotage of Cal’s recruiting class, all while Tosh was still a Bear."
I would like a link to the local media reporting this as confirmed by multiple sources, like you have suggested it has been.
Like I said, if some of the things speculated upon are true, I will be greatly disappointed.
for one, read local media and check the BI message boards and the comments on this site for various insiders posting their knowledge.
We have received plenty of info from reliable sources behind the scenes, which of course are off the record for obvious reasons.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t write this post and I don’t ascribe to that theory. But I think the theory that Tedford actively ignored Tosh for 10 days, (while they were recruiting together the whole time) is completely bogus. It also runs counter to what we’ve heard about multiple offers to Tosh from Tedford and the AD.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Interesting.
For what it’s worth, I didn’t write this post and I don’t ascribe to that theory.
Do we need to have a refresher on the difference between a hypothesis, a theory and a law? If in fact, it is just a theory (as I also stated above and based my remark upon) then this whole conversation between us was a waste of time. You said it was true, which led me to ask for the proof of that.
I’m going to excuse myself from this conversation now. I think it’s a little petty.
uhh
I quoted this:
If some of the allegations in this story are true
and said that they are. You didn’t specify which one, and as I said, I don’t ascribe to the one you pulled out later. But that doesn’t change the fact that many, or as you said, some, of the allegations are painfully true.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Amen!
Thank you for perspective!
Go Dawgs! Go Bears!
You do realize, don’t you, that you have just praised and seconded the article which says that Tosh is a back-stabbing traitor?
You need to click on the button at the bottom of each comment that says “reply” in order for your comment to be made in response to that comment. Otherwise, your comment is being made in response to the original article.
CGB: The Strangest Blog
opps!
Thanks CalBear81 as you can see I am new at this…
I understand, I disagree...
Listen to what we are saying is true and highly probable where we really do not know: It makes sense for ‘us’ a coach with Tosh’s record and ‘proven’ ability, recruiting 18 year old football players to CAL like NO ONE EVER HAS, with our reputation of very high academic standards, very poor if not the worst facilities in the PAC 12, (during Tosh tenure), and a reputation of a revolving- door- of coaches, and, where All our best juniors ‘bolt’ to the NFL…Except Tosh D Line-players…Would himself ‘Plan’ or "conspire’ and wait until the last minute, then try to ‘flip’ players after selling them on, himself and CAL… To do what? To ‘see’ if this incredibility confusing scenario could be overcome by his prowess as a recruiter!
With his rep…He could have told JT I am leaving CAL for more money and a better position…And, avoid all the drama, and get going as a top respected and renowned recruiter, without any controversy at all…
What does make sense; Tosh did commit to CAL, as he was satisfied, with an offer. He wanted to move forward and do his thing…And stick with the ‘known’ commodity, doing what he did, best! BUT! And this reminds me of a situation back in the 80’s with Jack Elway…Jack went to the AD, to sign on the doted line, and guess what…It was all verbal! CAL ‘expected’ Jack to begin his new career at CAL without a contract! that would come later… Jack committed, and later coached at Stanford…
Tosh behavior so much more indicates he was hoping to get the contract done at CAL…His ‘mistake’ was, after receiving verbal input, he realized the written contract was NOT forthcoming…
Sark seized the moment…‘Tosh our contract is ready to sign, get CAL to do the same for your own benefit and confidence!’ This scenario is highly probable, and explains the confusion…Tosh was obviously confused…Saying i am staying at CAL Sunday morning, and, by Sunday evening he is gone!
If planning to leave, why would he make any statement about staying…If it was about a bidding war, you just ‘publicly’ told Washington, see ya! Why would you want to look so ridiculous and fickle, purposely! The last minute decision by Tosh, was because we did not have that ‘contract’ in hand, for him to sign, with our promise, whatever it was to him…And, Tosh was so frustrated and so upset, he did make an Emotional decision…It appears his strong suit is his passion and emotion…
We are a bureaucracy! The chancellor already said he knew ‘nothing’ about any of this. Paraphrased…
the fact is SB ‘already’ said as did JT we have reached an agreement! If so you ‘had’ to run it by the C…You can’t write checks without his knowledge or make budget decisions without his understanding… C said…I knew ‘nothing’ about this, so, it stands to reason no contract was offered as so many have developed theory about…
Forget about all the boats, $$$, and co-d-coordinator title at W..In the ‘midst’ of all of this would you, as the head coach, call Tosh and expect him to meet you in Maryland, to recruit, knowing he had a drop dead date, by W, to sign a contract, and at the same time CAL had NO CONTRACT for him to sign! It makes absolutely no sense for any head Coach or AD, to be asking anyone to do anything who was in a tug of war situation about ‘contract’ until you get him to sign yours!
Does ‘everyone’ understand that every assistant coach is a year-to-year contract…My sense is, his was up! First order of business for CAL and AD get our guys signed up! And, if we delay, contracts, don’t blame a coach when he is trying to negotiate his, but there is nothing in writing submitted for him to sign…
Meanwhile the other program has an offer, IN WRITING!
Our expectation is since Tosh was such a CAL guy, he needed to stay and finish out the job, without a contract, then, see what happens, and meanwhile, loose the W offer…
Because his immediate family, his future, and his career need to be ‘subjectively’ subordinate to our needs, values, and wants because we are CAL…
I wonder if CT would be at CAL, if his contract was NOT signed and secured meeting his expectations and ours…A YEAR IN ADVANCE!
And, while I understand the outcry, I respectfully disagree… Mooch told us he was a bear forever…Up to the last minute, and when he left it sounded, like Mother Tereasa was leaving the house?
That is how we got his asst, Tom Holmoe, because we were ‘scrambling’ or we would loose the entire recruiting process with most staff not knowing if they even had a job…Mooch flushed us like C—- down the toilet!
Forcing our hasty decision to hire Tom, because we had too! Talk about damage to the program!
So, while this Tosh thing sucks, and it does suck big time…Again let’s put the pressure where it belongs on a Bureaucracy that has CT hands tied, behind his back, unbelievable pressure with a bunch of fans, who said before his hire…all we want is to be competitive in the PAC 10, win our share of the ‘Big Games’ and beat one of the So Cal teams each season…CT changed our expectations, now we want a BCS bowl, Rose Bowl, and to retain the coaches it takes to get it done, with the same BS Admin, policies in place…
Tosh and CT are casualties of the Top of the bureaucratic dissociated too busy at the golf and cocktail party folks to get it done…
And. let’s remember the C comment…I had no idea about any of this…Really! Meanwhile we have Ad’s coaches in Alabama, Michigan, and Florida commenting about how the move to W will impact them!
Interesting
I posted a memo of which the heart of the content was about ‘contract.’ I learned Tosh was NOT on contract…I learned that while CT and SB said they made an offer, and Tosh agreed, it NEVER happened and, he was told it might take 40-50 days before they could ink, the offer!
SB and JT cannot make any agreements without the knowledge or approval of the chancellor, who was reported in the paper to say, I knew nothing about this…
Washington did make a written offer, for signing…
My memo, explaining this scenario, has been removed from this blog site, which also contained much more possible insight…And, I used no profanity, and n slurs…just pieced together some very significant information from the reports by journalists and more…
Let’s ‘see’ if the post goes back up…If not there is something in it that is highly accurate and damming…
I don’t believe any of your comments have been deleted. Maybe you hit “cancel” instead of “post” on accident?
"i, for one, welcome our new atomic overlords" - GoldBlooded
by atomsareenough on Jan 20, 2012 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
UW
A fellow Old Blue (he is very wise, and someone who I respect a lot) put it in perspective for me… He said that this shall pass, but this snake (my word, not his) will always remember this. It’s unfortunate, but one player doesn’t make a team. Cal stands for much greater things than such shenanigans. Frankly, since this schmuck didn’t know that, good riddance. Cal will move on! If Thompson and the others realize this, then they’ll make great Bears. If they ultimately decide to go elsewhere – and I hope they do not – our great university will be just fine. Be forewarned, the vultures are out… Led by Jim Mora, Jr. & Co. A few players do not equal W’s. Rather, I want folks who want to be Golden Bears. Evidently, the schmuck who went north did not. Personally, I think that reveals a lot about one’s true character. He has to live with his greedy decision. I wish the Cal football family the best. The one good thing is that it’s probably warm in hell after all those cold days in Seattle.

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