LeonPowe:Well, I think we would've preferred him getting paid Cal dollars.
I think there's a couple of questions that are obvious looking at the immediate future - long term, I think we'll be ok with the SAHPC, but are we in danger of losing recruits from this class and recruits that were in the pipeline? Also, who will step up and be that link between the older coachs (Tedford, Pendergast, Coach M) and the young kids who play X-Box who Tosh has such a good connection with?
(LeonPowe's suggestion: Zach Follett)
Cugel:No fun being a mod today at all.
I guess it just good it's UW instead of Oregon, only 1 troll instead of 100.
NorCalNick: This kind of topic is the opposite of fun. I like talking about what happens on the field, not the back room machinations , important though they may be. It's frustrating that one assistant coach can evidently be so important that everybody freaks out that he leaves.
Personally, I'm going to choose to believe a few things: 1) Tosh has already recruited enough talent to make Cal competitive over the next few years 2) The natural advantages Cal has (education, location, facilities, etc.) will allow for any coach to recruit to a reasonable level.
I'm not going to let this news get me down because as soon as I start getting depressed over assistant coach job changes I've officially entered the danger zone of college football obsession . . . oh, who am I fooling, I'm already in the DANGER ZONE!
Kodiak: Whenever a Cal alum decides to switch allegiances, it's a sad day.
Speaking as a small business owner, it's tough when one of your best people decides to go elsewhere. From a pure business and $$$ standpoint, sometimes the math just doesn't add up and you can't begrudge someone for doing what's best for them.
It's easy to say, "why didn't we just pay him?" Well, giving a huge raise to one position coach without doing the same for other coaches who might have equal or more seniority, experience, and value could destroy your team. And given the financial state of California and Cal Athletics, that just might not have been feasible.
It does bother me that Tosh would leave without letting his players know about it. How can you preach about family, trust, and accountability when you're willing to bail without so much as a meeting? This might be the part that bothers me the most. Would a "hey guys, I'm sorry, but..." talk have been so tough? Either this says a lot about Tosh as a man, or it says a lot about the inter-personal dynamic of our coaching staff. There are no good answers here, just varying degrees of ugly.
For a silver lining dose of sunshine pumping, keep in mind that Mariucci and Holmoe were both considered great recruiters. Tosh connected well to several recruits, but it was the shift in the overall Cal approach over the last few years combined with the facilities that has sold well. There's no way to sugar coat the impact. We could lose some commits and recruits who were wavering over the short term. But, the pieces are still in place for the Bear to not quit, nor die.
TwistNHook: At least we can use the term "Tosh.No"
Berkelium97: Would you guys have been comfortable if we matched the 500k offer?
Personally, I think 500k is a bit steep. That is far more than any of our non-Tedford coaches earns in a season. Lupoi was a tremendous coach and a fantastic recruiter, but 500k? I am surprised a public university like UW was able to pony up that kind of cash.
Avinash: If we could pay it? Yes. You want a first-class football program, you have to pay for it. Particularly in the Pac-12, where you see teams paying exorbitant amounts to their new coaching staffs. Cal can't pussyfoot around and try to nickel and dime their coaches just because it's Cal and everyone will stay here forever.
That Tosh would make a lateral move to an average-performing program after talking about being a Bear forever tells me that we really didn't do enough on this front.
Kodiak: 500k is just the official salary. We have no idea if there are any undisclosed bonuses from private donors.
On the one hand, you could look at it and say that 500k is a small investment versus the quality of players that Tosh would bring in, and hopefully, the ensuing success with corresponding revenue to our football team. On the other, I don't see how you could pay Tosh that type of scratch without giving a similar bump to Gould, Michalczick, and Pendergast at the very least. Let's face it. We're not one of the bluebloods of college football. Not sure that we'll ever be, less sure that we'd want to be. We are who we are, and that engenders a moneyballesque approach where we're never going to be able to keep up in the arms race with schools who will sell the farm and damn the torpedoes to pay for their pound of flesh. Time will tell whether UW has made a fantastic steal, or will experience buyer's remorse.
NorCalNick: On a side note, everybody knows you can't pay players. But it's kinda creepy that UW is basically dropping half a million to pay the guy to get you players. Good ole college football, paying the middleman to avoid appearances of impropriety!
Avinash: I find it hard to believe that the Pac-12 TV contract could not be spent on bolstering coaching salaries just a bit for everyone at Cal. I don't even think Tosh would've had to be paid as much as UW. $300k or so and then boosters would take care of more of that.
If Cal has to go moneyball, they're really wasting their natural advantages they enjoy over Oregon, UW and other Pac-12 schools not named USC or UCLA now that they have the facilities and new stadium all ready to go.
TwistNHook: The thought that I have is that Tosh was very successful being a recruiter, in part because he was able to preach the "family" approach at Cal.
Now, having burned his "family," how much will that hurt his sales approach? I know that he'll still be very successful with UW, but he's definitely lost credibility with this whole situation. Does that hurt recruiting?
Avinash: I doubt what happened with Cal will make a huge impact. When it comes down to it, leaving Cal isn't really thought of as a huge betrayal as it would at other big programs. It's considered an 'upward move', even when it really isn't.
What will make an impact is that he's in UW. California recruits generally don't leave California unless no one else wants them. It's been a long time since Washington has landed major defensive recruits.
What will matter more is how much the defense improves next season with Wilcox and Tosh leading things in the trenches. If the defense looks great, then players might start taking notice and Washington might emerge as a power. It's clear they have the offensive talent to succeed.
Solarise:BTW - Justin Wilcox has tried to poach Tosh from Cal while he was at Tennessee. Looks like Wilcox has finally succeeded by ceding some D-coordinator duties with Tosh.
I really have no doubt that Tosh will be a great coach wherever he goes. He's proven himself developing 1st rounders like Tyson Alualu and Cam Jordan. Tosh's void left at Cal will be felt on both the coaching and the recruiting front. I think it'll take the combination of both Hardy Nickerson Sr and Zach Follett fill the void unless we find another young + upcoming coach+recruiter. Is Brennan Carroll, Pete's son, available by any chance?
Avinash: Zach would be a nice grad assistant and a great recruiting guy. But I doubt he's ready to be a coach. Certainly not at a position like the D-line.
Nickerson wants to coach college? I guess he has a year of experience, but that's with his specialty, linebackers.
LeonPowe: I don't think he loses cred at all because he'll be building relationships with the UW defensive players and I'm sure he'll cultivate the same sort of atmosphere in Seattle. And recruits will see that.
Solarise:Avi has just killed our Twitter fantasy D-Line Coach and Recruiting Coordinator list!
Atomsareenough:Sorry I was out today guys. Man, WTF. I haven't seen any of the comments or anything yet, so this is just my initial reaction.
I wish I shared Kodiak's sense of perspective on this one, but I'm having a hard time. It's not just that "one of our best people decided to go elsewhere". He decided to go not just elsewhere, but to a DIRECT competitor. Lest we forget, Washington is not just in our conference, but they're in our division. We play them every year, and we're vying for the exact same spot in the Pac-12 Championship game every year. So, they are one of the worst teams he could have gone to, Plus, they're the team I'd say that is currently the most at parity with us in football (let's face it, Oregon and USC are a cut above at this point, and probably Stanfurd is too, though who knows what the post-Luck era will look like), so this could very well swing Washington ahead of us as well.
...and to compound matters, not only is he leaving us for them, he is leaving at pretty much the WORST possible time. Armstead was expected to announce for us today, and instead of us getting to celebrate that, we have McCarthy flipping and Armstead on the fence. LOI day is just a couple of weeks away and instead of a top 5 class, we're now just hoping we can hang onto some of the guys we have commitments from already. There is really no positive to this for Cal in any way.
Furthermore, I think "why didn't we just pay him?" is a totally reasonable and legitimate question. Tosh didn't leave us for a fancy private school with unlimited coffers. He didn't go to USC or Notre Dame. He went to Washington, which is another public school in the same conference, whose budgets should not be light-years ahead of ours in any way. Obviously Tosh had a lot of value in the marketplace. We've known for weeks that Washington and other schools were coming after him hard. When it comes down to it, you have to pay your high performers what they're worth.
Man, this is just really, really disappointing in every dimension. I am significantly less hopeful and optimistic today than I was yesterday.
TwistNHook: And with that, a mighty cheer went up from the heroes of CGB. They had banished the awful Tosh Lupoi forever, because he was haunted. Now let's all celebrate with a cool glass of turnip juice.