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Cal vs. Washington Playcalling Roundtable

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And now, a last word on playcalling from the Cal-UW game. Well, more like 2000 words.

We look at the fade route on 4th down, the tight end slip pass on 1st down that never materialized, Tedford going for it deep in his own territory.

TwistNHook: First, let me state that I always have a fairly skeptical eye on playcalling criticisms. There are literally dozens and dozens of calls that can be played that are more than reasonable. Obviously, there are unreasonable play calls (dump off to the fullback on 3rd and 10) and low percentage like that can be frustrating. But the vast majority of potential plays are roughly approximate in success rate. If executed well, Cal gains yards. If executed poorly, Cal doesn't gain yards. It is as simple as that.

And when Cal executes well, people say 'What a great play call!" When Cal doesn't execute well, people say "Terrible play calling!" There are certainly other plays Cal could have called at the goal line. Maybe a roll out with the mobile Maynard. Maybe a fullback run up the gut. Maybe a QB sneak. I personally don't see much difference between those in terms of play calling. All are reasonable. All, if executed well, would have resulted in a TD. In my opinion, 2-3 out of 4 of the plays called, if executed well, would have resulted in a TD. Let's take them in turn.

The first play was a throw to TE Anthony Miller. I haven't rewatched it, but IIRC, it was moderately similar to the 2008 Big Game TD to Morrah. Look to the right and then throw to the wide open TE on the left. Miller got jammed at the line and it looked like he didn't make it to the spot of the pass in time. Sads. But it was more of an execution problem than a play calling problem.

Next two plays were running plays. [We've talked about them before; no need to rehash too much. Go here.]

The last play is the fade route.  I hate fade routes.  Hate hate hate.  They are low percentage plays that require a tall WR and a really accurate QB.  Maynard is a lot of things, but accuracy is not his strongest suit.  He threw this pass out of bounds and Keenan Allen did not have an opportunity to make a catch.  

I am fine with the first 3 play calls (although my mind is open on the 2nd call because I do not remember it well), but that 4th play call was frustrating for me. 

Star-divide

HydroTech: I pretty much agree with everything TwistNHook said. Fans seem to judge whether playcalls are good or bad based on their results. But great playcalls can fail due to bad execution. Bad playcalls can fail due to great execution. In my opinion, it's really more about execution than finding that one super secret play which totally exploits the defense. Don't get me wrong -- it helps! But even the most bland play can still succeed given proper execution.

As for that first and goal play where Cal was throwing to Miller, Cal runs that play all the time. The purpose of the play is to test the discipline of the defense's backside pursuit. If the backside defense bites on the run and forgets to cover the backside TE, then the QB passes to the TE for a touchdown. On that particular play, the Washington linebacker was disciplined and didn't ignore the TE. The defense just executed well and arguably better than the offense since Miller couldn't beat the coverage.

Kodiak: I'm okay with the play-fake and attempt to Miller. That's a call where if it works, you look brilliant. If not, you look stupid. Good call considering how hyped UW had to be expecting a power run up the middle. I wasn't pleased with Miller's effort to get off the line.

I'm not a fan of the fade. It doesn't seem to be a throw that Maynard is really comfortable with. He appears to be better with slants or outs, which I might have gone with. But, this is the same play that won the game for us at Colorado. Allen had position, and would have had a good chance to out-leap the defender. I'm okay with throwing the ball to your best player one on one...and the defense was probably specifically looking for an out (which is where Maynard has been picked once per game) or a slant (could have been safety/LB help). I'm okay with the call. Execution...well, it's time for some more reps.

Tedford's decision to go on 4th and 3, deep in our own territory. Absolutely yes. We had definitively proven that we couldn't stop UW at all. I would put money on Maynard to Jones or KA for 3 yards versus our D stopping Price on 3rd and anything. I don't see this call as controversial at all.

Yellow fever: I'm not a fan of the fade on all-or-nothing downs, and a fourth down with the game on the line is pretty much as all-or-nothing as it gets.  I'm fairly certain the success rate on them is not terribly high, especially if you're talking about an inaccurate QB, so I'd be rather happy to see it scrapped from the playbook altogether.

I have no problem with throwing to the backs earlier in the 4th.  If a guy is open, he's open, and it doesn't much matter to me whether he's a back or receiver.

With regards to general playcalling.

Norcalnick: I thought they did a better job calling running plays that played to Isi's strengths.  I don't think he's great up the middle, but pitches and stretch plays that allow him to move outside and pick his holes seem to work better.  There were less plays when he got caught for two yards or less.

Not a play call per se, but I loved the 4th down conversion attempts.  I don't think Tedford would have gone for it on at least one of those 4th downs last year, and I think that speaks to the confidence he has in Maynard and our current crop of WRs.  And it makes me much more optimistic about the future of the offense as long as Maynard is behind center.

Ohio Bear: 1st possession, 3rd and 20 on our own 10 -- "Conservative" Tedford would have called a screen or a draw to get us some yards and more breathing room for a punt. But we played for the 1st down, and we got even more: the 90-yd TD to KA21. When I saw Zach throw the ball on a deep route, I was mildly (yet pleasantly) surprised.

1st play after the fumble recovery in 2d Q. We went deep, to the end zone. (Had a shot to catch it, too.). This was the Tedford play calling of old and I loved it: go for the jugular after a turnover on the plus side of the field.

People have been critical of this one, but I didn't mind it at all: the pass to Isi on 4th and 3 at the UW 36 in the 4th Q. I thought it was a reasonable, if not intelligent, call. Isi is a good receiver, and he was 1 on 1 with a guy. Isi was open, ball was there and catchable. I don't buy the "Isi hadn't caught a pass all year" criticism. He's not a pass catching virgin and he was put in a spot to be successful. I was surprised he dropped it, to be honest.

Kodiak: I don't think that Tedford was calling outside runs solely because Sofele is better at bouncing it outside - with two new starters at OLB, UW has been very vulnerable to containing the edges.  Over 60% of Nebraska's 309 rushing yards last week came from zone-reads or simple pitch plays taken outside.  I'm sure that it showed up in the film room and that was part of the game plan.

When it first happened, I wasn't thrilled with the go route to Deboskie-Johnson as an attempt to convert 3rd and 4 on the drive right after their 70 yd catch and run.  Upon re-watch, this was the exact same play that Maynard and Debo had converted on earlier in the game to set up 1st and goal.  The big difference is the match-ups.  On the successful play, we drew one of their inexperienced OLBs who wasn't able to keep up with CDJ.  On this one, we drew their best LB in coverage who was able to force an incompletion.  I'm not sure if this is a UW adjustment or bad luck, but it would have been nice for someone to have noticed that this was no longer a mismatch and switched to a different target.

UW switched up their coverage in the 2nd half putting one corner in man press coverage with a safety or LB over him, and backing the other off into zone.  It looked like a deliberate attempt to force Maynard to go away from his first read.  Sometimes, he did so, like on the 3rd down conversion where he hit Calvin on the post.  But in other cases, I think it forced him to make throws where he wasn't comfortable.  Considering that 2/3 of their DBs were pretty shaky in coverage, I wonder why we went away from picking on them.  It may be that we were trying to do so, but Maynard was making the wrong reads.

 


As far as why we didn't roll Maynard out or try some zone-read calls, it could be that we had tried the zone-read two times in the red zone earlier in the game without much luck.  The roll out is nice to escape pressure, but it also condenses the field - earlier play-action roll-outs had resulted in Maynard throwing inaccurately.  So, maybe the coaches felt that he would do better with a quick 3-step drop and throw instead of trying to make a read and throw on the move. 

Thoughts on Washington knowing the final play was coming?

Avinash: "Before the final play, Washington defensive coaches knew exactly what play Cal would run. Quinton Richardson told a reporter (Jerry Brewer for the Seattle Times) that his coaches said: "A fade to Keenan Allen is coming. Man up on him and stay outside."

Does that change your assessment of the playcall? Even if Maynard had gotten off a clean pass, Richardson might've been in good position to defend it.

Additional comment from a Bear Insider commenter.

"By the way, on the post-game Husky radio show, an ex-QB had a great point about our formation for that play. He said that Allen was the only receiver split out to the left, but the problem was that he wasn't split out nearly WIDE enough. From where he lined up, the DB didn't have to worry about a slant because there would be way too much traffic in the middle, so he only had to worry about covering to the outside. "

Interesting how much faith Tedford placed in Maynard to land that fade to Allen.

Ohio Bear: Kind of meh on UW "knowing" what was coming. KA was still open. A better throw and KA has a great chance to make the catch. KA has good position on Richardson.

As for the point about not being wide enough - I'm not sure Q Rich needed to "worry" about the slant anyway. UW rushed 4 and had 7 in coverage. Particularly, look at the #1 for UW lined up on the defensive right side. He's defending the slant.

Still, is KA not wide enough? I dunno. He's lined up just about at the left hash with the ball on the right hash. Flip the hashes and you know what? It's the same position KA lined up on the game-winning fade at Colorado.

Kodiak: I agree with Ohio Bear that "knowing the play ahead of time" draws an indifferent shrug.  I don't think Richardson could have stopped KA if the throw was there.  My preference is the old West Coast offense play that Jerry Rice used to run to perfection - motion in, then run the quick out, the ball is thrown before the break.  Everyone knew it was coming...still couldn't be stopped.

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Maynard's rotting teeth

Honey Badger needs to brush in that photo.

by slaphancock on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM PDT reply actions  

You mean that gold mouthguard?

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2011 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe he was trying to make a funny?

California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bad playcalls can fail due to great execution.

I’m guessing Hydro means “succeed” instead of “fail”, right?

Does that change your assessment of the playcall? Even if Maynard had gotten off a clean pass, Richardson might’ve been in good position to defend it.

It does, in that it means we were predictable, and it kind of meshes with Sarkisian’s comments before the game to the effect that he felt pretty confident he knows what we try to do on offense. Who knows if it’s mostly bluster or actually true, but Sark does seem to have our number a bit.

But even then, as Ohio Bear pointed out, Keenan was open and it looked like simply throwing a better pass would have resulted in a touchdown.

California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2011 1:01 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

If Washington really knows our plays so well, it seems strange they allowed us to gain so many yards. Or perhaps they were just waiting until their D was backed up on the 1 yard line to start guessing the plays, but that doesn’t sound like a great strategy to me.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, maybe their players aren’t that good on defense. I mean, even on that last play, if they told Richardson to expect the fade, he was inside instead of outside, which left Keenan open.

California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

That was a perfectly executed game plan of “bend but don’t break more than 30 points worth”.

by cal85 on Sep 27, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't remember and maybe someone can help me

But was Isi or CJA the running back on that first pass play to Miller?

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 1:31 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Maynard had someone in his face as he was ready to throw. I don’t think he could have turned with enough time to see Isi. if anything, I think he could have dodged the rushing defender and ran to the left end zone after seeing Miller covered.

by cal85 on Sep 27, 2011 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

pass to sofele

I thought that was a nice playcall. It almost worked too.
If anyone remembers, he started out his career at Cal as WR his true frosh year.
Not that it matters now, but just sayin

by JustBear on Sep 27, 2011 1:32 PM PDT reply actions  

The less said about the final series of plays the better.

OK. I’ll keep this short. I think all four play calls in the final series were good, in that each one had a very good chance of succeeding if just one or two Bears had executed better. But because all four plays failed due to poor execution by just one or two Bears means the play calling wasn’t “great”. A great call, I would argue, is one that so deceives the defense that it can succeed even when the execution is less than perfect.

In looking up stats for another comment, I saw that Oregon is something like 10 for 12 on 2-point conversion attempts the last two years. Is this success due to:
a. brilliantly deceptive play calling
b. consistently flawless execution
c. superior athletes
d. dumb Duck luck; they’re bound to convert only 3 or 4 of their next dozen attempts

(And this isn’t a rhetorical question. I don’t know the answer, but I sure would love to know b/c it’s killing me that Oregon has distanced itself so far from Cal in just the last 3 years.)

Go Bears!

by California Pete on Sep 27, 2011 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

They have this weird thing where they line up off-set and attempt a 2-point conversion only if the defensive alignment looks favorable. If it doesn’t, they go back to a regular formation and kick the extra point.

Essentially, they’re goosing the numbers by only trying under favorable conditions. It’s an interesting strategy, to be sure.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2011 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

It sounds like a winning one to me. going 10 for 12 rather than say, 12 for 12 in 1-point conversions means 8 additional points scored.

California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2011 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

No moar talk about last 4 playz they broke the internet!

Alright, and after it's all over, you say "Ooh, what a lovely tea party"

by Redonkulous Bear on Sep 27, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

time to move on boys

the bears rb stable for 2011 is what it is: deal with it.

they’ve got 9 days to figure out who’s doing what to whom or else they will get their rear ends handed to them yet again by the duckies…

on national TV no less and then we’re all back to sobbing into our warm brewskies….sigh!!!!

by blueonblue on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM PDT reply actions  

I’m not sure if anyone is putting the RBs at fault for this one

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

I had no issue with the play calling in the game

I liked the aggressiveness that we displayed.

Perhaps the only thing I would have liked to have seen and perhaps we ran one but I don’t recall, a screen pass to our RBs would have been nice.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 1:45 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

As long as it’s not against us, screens can good

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 27, 2011 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like the play call on 1st and goal to Miller

It has worked for us before.

My only issue with it, I would have liked to see CJA as the RB on that play. A big part of that plays success is selling the run, so why not have a big back who we have already used once on the goal line to punch it in for a TD and who is largely just used on rushing plays to help better sale the idea of a run and perhaps draw in those LBs.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 2:05 PM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Agreed. Also, the fake was significantly lame to Isi.

by cal85 on Sep 27, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh we’re talking about the whole game not just the last 4 plays huh.

Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2011 2:22 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

good, good

Alright, and after it's all over, you say "Ooh, what a lovely tea party"

by Redonkulous Bear on Sep 27, 2011 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks....

…..because all the rest of us fans, those who haven’t played the game or run fabulous websites such as this one, are clearly incapable of analyzing a play-call because all we do is call successful plays good calls and unsuccessful ones bad calls.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2011 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

wat

Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2011 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

And wat do you burn, apart from witches?

Alright, and after it's all over, you say "Ooh, what a lovely tea party"

by Redonkulous Bear on Sep 27, 2011 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

well...

…..to hear some tell it. I’m just glad someone with knowledge the site owners can trust chimed in.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2011 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Wait…I just want to make sure…you know I’m kidding right?

Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2011 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

got it, spazz.....

…..no, sorry, it’s tough to pay close attention at work. Read and react, just like our defense.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2011 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

lol! I’m sorry…

Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2011 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Read and react, just like our defense.

Only if you give up a touchdown!

Being an Old Blue means never accepting success.

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dad?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Passing all 4 downs as opposed to running

I think that is fair to say, but when and where has Maynard and Co. been successful throwing short passes for TDs (the only exception in my memory seems to be the Maynard-to-KA in overtime in Colorado) , or short passes in tight space generally. Whether you throw it or run it all 4 downs, Cal should be able to score from two yards out regardless. And whether to throw it or run it pales in comparison as to whether throwing a fade on 4th down is a sensible call.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Whatever…..we can analyze the play calling all we want and have fights between pumpers and Negas but at the end of the day, Cal STILL found a way to lose a winnable game….which is more the pattern than the other way around…. whether it is JT or what not, it still sucks and it still keeps happening and all the smarty pants’ guys can’t fix the problem, regardless if they are CGB guys or professional coaching type guys…

by Cal_Fan2 on Sep 27, 2011 3:16 PM PDT reply actions   1 recs

I usually give the play callers

the benefit of the doubt, but a series of play calls hasn’t annoyed me this much since the Texas Tech game (in which game, probably not coincidentally, we just wanted Tedford to ram it down the defense’s throat).

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2011 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

ding ding ding
Cal STILL found a way to lose a winnable game….which is more the pattern than the other way around…. whether it is JT or what not, it still sucks and it still keeps happening and all the smarty pants’ guys can’t fix the problem, regardless if they are CGB guys or professional coaching type guys…

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, this kind of shit can happen, and it has been happening to Cal a lot, but the whole point of going over the minutiae is to try and gauge whether it is just the way the ball rolls or whether there are decisions that could have been made to lessen the likelihood of these bad outcomes occuring.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way

you can examine every close loss, and every important play in said losses, which is fun and enlightening.

That said, you also need to look at the aggregate. Good teams win their close games; our teams find new and exciting ways to lose close games, and that trend is the problem.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 29, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

Since 2009, Cal is 5-4 in games decided by 1 score (which I define as 8 points or less).

Since 2008, we’re 7-5.

Since 2007, we’re 11-8.

There is no disturbing trend, unless you’re looking at an extremely small sample size (basically, the 2nd half of 2010 until now). Over the long haul, we’re actually doing better than expected in close games (which can generally be expected to go 50/50).

Our problem is that too many games are close now; we’re not good enough to blow the average teams out.

by sycasey on Sep 29, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

fair point

I definitely draw a distinction between games like Oregon last year, which was an awesome performance by our d against a very good team, vs our last two games against UW or similar teams, teams we should expect to be given our hopes for our program. I think Tedford is a better recruiter and game planner than in game coach, and it seems we need to be able to “out-talent” teams in order to beat them (sort of brute force hacking, to use a technology analogy). Put another way, when was the last time we actually beat a team superior to us? Stanfurd 09 is the most recent example in my mind (and what an example!), but I think it’s pretty rare that we actually play above our talent level.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 29, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last year we definitely didn’t, though I think some of that can be blamed on the fact that we had to play Masion.

In a broader sense, though, I don’t think trying to “beat teams better than you” is a great strategy for winning in the long term. We all like rooting for the scrappy underdog, but part of the reason you are a scrappy underdog is that you maybe scratched out a win or two against superior teams and otherwise finished somewhere in the middle of the pack. What we really want to do is actually be the better team most of the time. In terms of talent or scheme or whatever. In recent years, we just aren’t. One way to improve those chances is to improve the talent, so I don’t think a desire to “out-talent” teams is misguided.

For example, we certainly had superior talent to most of the teams we faced in 2004 and 2006, and look what happened there, our two best records of the Tedford era. And boy didn’t the schemes and playcalling look great back then?

by sycasey on Sep 29, 2011 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

see

I look at 04 and 06 and see teams that, while talented (and getting good qb play is huge), were not that much more talented than today’s team. I think it’s more that other teams have upgraded their coaching and their talent level, which has caught up with us.

I too would love to have better talent that everyone, but that is probably not going to happen with $C in the conference and with Nike U up north. In the meantime, we lose every year to teams that are less talented than us (Oregon State for starters, UW the last few years), lose to teams with similar talent, and rarely beat teams with more talent.

What we really want to do is actually be the better team most of the time. In terms of talent or scheme or whatever.

I totally agree with this. As long as we’re winning consistently, it doesn’t really matter how. If it really is all about recruiting, then we’ll start to win over the next few years. If it’s not, and if we’re still mediocre despite a lot of talent, that is indicative of a larger problem.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 29, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

See, I disagree that we have just as much talent now. Those teams had NFL talent up the wazoo. This team doesn’t.

However, as I have mentioned before, I think we are still feeling the after-effects of a downturn in recruiting during the tree-sitter years. The talent level should start to improve as the players from the more recent (awesome) recruiting classes mature. If we’re still stuck in mediocrity after that, I’l agree that there’s a problem with the way our team is coached.

by sycasey on Sep 29, 2011 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good teams win their close games; our teams find new and exciting ways to lose close games, and that trend is the problem.

I don’t believe that’s true. I’ve never seen this as it relates to college football, but in every other sport I’ve seen the data for (baseball, basketball, NFL), what really ends up happening is close games are close to a coinflip (good teams win more often than not, but their winning % is rarely very far above 50%). If you think of it in the context of statistics – random variation, it makes sense. All it takes is one or two lucky breaks to decide the game, rather than talent. I strongly suspect this happens in CFB, too, after all, random variation applies there, as well. Good teams make sure lesser teams don’t even have a chance to get lucky and win.

As for the discussion on Cal, they won the CU game, so we can hardly say anything one way or the other.

by Missing Barry on Sep 30, 2011 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

the conference record since 2007 is alarming.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2011 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is a bit concerning, JT needs to go 4-4

Over the remaining back PAC -12 games just to stay at 500.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 8:35 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

$2.7 miillion per year 4 Tedford… highest paid Pac-12 football coach (to my memory)…that .500 record should sound even worse.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

You think Nike is pissed?

The internet's most successful troll!
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: Read It | Follow It | Like It | Wear It

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2011 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

No but Cal fans should be (slightly), no?

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it is reasonable for Cal fans to be a bit concerned

This years Cal team has looked good but we haven’t gotten into the meat of the schedule yet.

We will know just how much improved this team is after these next two games. In my opinion the SC game is the most important of the season.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 8:58 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not Oregon? Or is it because you think Oregon is unwinnable, and that USC is the challenge to Cal that is actually winnable (considering it is at home and all).

And I’m saying Cal fans should be concerned regardless of how much Tedford earns in salary. However, considering what the school is committing to Tedford compared to the rest of the conference, and how the Cal program has plateaued since rising to the top tier of the conference back to the middle-of-the-pack that needs to grind out every conference win they can, it seems apparent that Tedford’s pay grade does not correspond to the team’s results. That’s all.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

It would be great to pull off the upset of Oregon

However, that is going to be a very tough game and while I can see Cal hanging around (hopefully) throughout the first half I am not sure we can win.

SC is a winnable game and it is at home. If we can’t defeat a sanctioned riddled, depleted SC roster, with Lane Kiffin as it’s HC I will be disappointed.

Cal needs to win that SC game for a lot of reasons.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 9:16 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I KNOW RIGHT?

How long has he been following Cal football?

What’s that?

113 days?

s f posted 113 days ago
s f

Hey, we wanted to know if you would write about Cal Football and Mens Basketball for our blog. E-mail us at goldenbearlair@yahoo.com for more info.

srsly…

Alright, and after it's all over, you say "Ooh, what a lovely tea party"

by Redonkulous Bear on Sep 27, 2011 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

you are an internet wizard!

n.b. -- This comment does not constitute official chemistry advice.

by sec119 on Sep 27, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dont care what Tedford is making or what his salary might be

I am just concerned with his on the field results and PAC 10/12 record over the last 4 years.

I don’t think Tedfords record should be judged with one on his paycheck.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 9:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I dont care what Tedford is making or what his salary might be

I am just concerned with his on the field results and PAC 10/12 record over the last 4 years.

I don’t think Tedfords record should be judged with one eye on his paycheck.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 9:52 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Checked my old post and it looks like Cal pays $225K:

Section 3. Tedford is paid no less than $225,000 per year for all 7 years of this contract in base pay.

The internet's most successful troll!
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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2011 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Talent Fee Questions...

Can anyone explain the talent fee component of Tedford’s salary? It comes up a lot and is often described as “Nike money”. I’ve always thought it was probably used to keep his official UC salary low enough to blunt highest-paid-state-employee type criticism and to separate public money from private sources(boosters, TV/apparel/gear contracts, etc) that pay the bulk of a D-1 football coach’s salary. Basically that it’s for appearances or maybe accounting?

The sfgate article linked in Twist’s contract extension post says:

his “talent fee”’ would see a similar rise from $1,332,500 to $1.575 million. The talent fee is widely believed to be funded by Nike

What does that mean? That Cal chooses to use money from the Nike apparel/gear contract to fund part of Tedford’s salary? That Nike pays the talent fee separate from their main Cal contract? If so, is the payment is specific to Tedford? Wouldn’t that be documented at a public university just like the contract?

by OskiGoDumb on Sep 28, 2011 3:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do not know the answer to that question

The internet's most successful troll!
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by TwistNHook on Sep 28, 2011 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, last time I saw anyone look at assistant coach pay, Cal was either at or near the bottom of the conference. Coaching isn’t just about the head coach, it’s the whole staff. Cal’s staff is not all that highly paid on the whole.

by Missing Barry on Sep 28, 2011 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can put it to you another way: In terms of value — what Cal is getting (in terms of program success W/L) — what Cal is getting from their football team over the last few years has been less than most conference teams. Cal’s AD, evident in their financial commitment to both Tedford and Montgomery, has explicitly expressed their expectation to no longer be average players in the conference in the two biggest revenue sports — men’s basketball and football. Tedford is arguably worth his market value for what he has already done for the program — part of which contributed to the success of the renovation of Memorial Stadium, the state of the art althetic center, etc. — but, in terms of success on the field, Tedford, in a Moneyball sense, one can argue, is like a Johnny Damon.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Generally I liked the playcalling in this game

And, for the record, I AM a fan of the fade route, especially when KA is having a career day, is still 6’3" and Maynard is a good QB (IMO). Some things I didn’t like were how much we ran or threw in the flat to RBs on the short side of the field. I remember it happening a few times, including 3rd and goal from the 10. Throw to the end zone and if you don’t get it you kick. At the goal, I like Maynard rollout, but I’m fine with what was called, too.
 
Isi’s got heart and speed and I’m fine with him as our #1. I like him running outside better than inside and I’ll take his pass blocking over all the others.
 
I wish we’d won, but MAN is this a different Cal team than last year !!!!! Go Bears !

I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.

by BTown85 on Sep 27, 2011 3:30 PM PDT reply actions  

My only problem with it.....

……is that we’d done that already so it was more likely to be covered this time. It would have made a much better second-down play, though. Anything would have.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2011 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about the pass to KA21 that set up the First and Goal at the 2.

Was it underthrown? It was a spectacular catch by Keenan, but I thought that could have been a TD if thrown a little bit stronger.

by JustBear on Sep 27, 2011 3:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Honeybadger tends to underthrow / hesitate a bit on his throws. Too many times the receivers have to either slow down or come back to catch a ball that, if thrown in stride, would be a touchdown. I remember at least four passes like that in this game, and several others in Colorado.

Hopefully that will come to Maynard in time.

Being an Old Blue means never accepting success.

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2011 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thought the playcalling overall was pretty good

didn’t like that 3rd down run at all though. Hindsight is 20/20 no doubt, but did anyone think an off tackle to Sofele was gonna work there? I’m okay with the fade just thought it should’ve been thrown on the near side. That throw was MUCH harder than the throw he made in Colorado.

by Archon on Sep 27, 2011 3:43 PM PDT reply actions  

Is this the thread to talk about resigning Josh Willingham? Dude’s got 29 jacks and wants(ed) to stay in Oakland. C’mon Lew!

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2011 7:17 PM PDT reply actions  

Or so he says…he’s a southern boy and if Atlanta were to offer, I bet he’d be gone…but I’d love for him to stay…one of the highlights.

by Cal_Fan2 on Sep 27, 2011 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if he actively wants to stay. No free agent ever closes off any options. I agree tho, it’d be great if he re-signed.

n.b. -- This comment does not constitute official chemistry advice.

by sec119 on Sep 27, 2011 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

7 million/yr should get it done, right? They’ve got that.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2011 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Twist: I think you’re right in stating that criticism of play calling is highly reactive. It is largely selective based on the play’s impact. But this is not to say that criticizing play calling is irrelevant or, when stated objectively (so far as this is possible), important and helpful. There actually are plays throughout the game that are highly questionable (in terms of play calling) but they don’t receive our scrutiny because, as fans, we don’t care. Usually it’s because the play didn’t come up at what we deem “crucial junctures.” This doesn’t mean there is shoddy play calling through out the game that warrants our most impressive analytical evaluation.

I don’t feel too strongly one way or the other as to whether it was prudent to run vs. pass on particular downs, but what does seem to be clear is calling a fade/out to KA on 4th down was a low percentage play, and thus was an objectively poor play call. When 10 plays off the top of one’s head comes to mind that would produce better options for Maynard it seems pretty warranted to blast the coaches for the play call. I mean, maybe the coaches didn’t like giving Maynard a “read” pass play in that instance — which would be understandable — but I doubt it, nor would it be adequate enough to justify the fade, in my view.

And whether or not UW knew the call (which I doubt, especially since it wasn’t your typical “fade”; it was a fade as an out pattern), KA was still open. But that is never the question. Most guys will be open (especially when they’re anticipating a typical fade route towards the back pylon) on that call, it’s just a very difficult pass to make; Alex Smith has been a pro QB for 7 years and he couldn’t make that throw if he was given 20 opportunities. Then again, Maynard hasn’t shown an ability to go through reads well in the red zone (it seems to me). What do you do? That’s open for debate, but calling the fade route doesn’t seem to be a 1, 2, or 3 option there, to put it mildly.

by salary_cap on Sep 27, 2011 9:14 PM PDT reply actions  

z

Alright, and after it's all over, you say "Ooh, what a lovely tea party"

by Redonkulous Bear on Sep 27, 2011 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

My only issue with the fade route is calling it on 4th down

As I’m sure you know and it has been pointed out in this post, we beat Colorado on a fade route. While I agree that a fade route is a difficult play for most QBs to execute and that It is a low percentage play but Maynard had just executed it two weeks prior.

I like the call, I just might have preferred it a bit earlier, like 1st down.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2011 9:43 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’m still unclear why people seem to think it matters so much what down it comes on? It doesn’t affect the likelihood of completing the pass, does it?

by Missing Barry on Sep 28, 2011 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

You are the new Rocky22354245. Albeit nicer

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 28, 2011 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

at least gimme some background there...

I’m using some pretty simple logic, I know. but, it’s not like I just started watching the game or the Bears last weekend.

by dirt on Sep 28, 2011 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rocky234123424 was a poster that always posted something negative bar none. Usually in a fanpost. Big 50 point win? Nope nothing good happened, fire Tedford. Best almost dies? Fire Tedford.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 29, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope you don’t actually remember the number sequence behind Rocky’s name. As for the comparison….I thought his comment was pretty well thought out….

by Missing Barry on Sep 28, 2011 8:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s just a random string of numbers

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 29, 2011 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

red zone play calling in general...

More worried about red zone success rate of the game in general when the numbers generated by skill players speak for themselves. Not buying that the problem is execution when rb’s, wr’s, & qb had lofty #’s

by dirt on Sep 28, 2011 2:38 AM PDT via mobile reply actions  

Random variation. It’s a thing.

by Missing Barry on Sep 28, 2011 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

disregard

thought that was a response to my comment… silly me strikes again..

by dirt on Sep 28, 2011 3:53 PM PDT reply actions  

Agree that people generally associate playcalling with results. In fact, I’m about to do that. Overall I thought the playcalling was good, because it looked to me like the players had every opportunity to succeed all game long! I’m a big advocate of being more aggressive going for 4th downs and such more, as I believe evidence supports that strategy. So….good stuff. That said…a few concerns. First, I hope on the 5 wide Sofele drop that he was not the primary receiver. I have no idea whatsoever if he was or was not, just that he should not have been. I take issue with the play if he was. Second, on the one pass to our RB (forget if it was CDJ or CJA) on 3rd and 9 or whatever that got like a yard…he looked like the primary option. That play can work, but the QB needs to be able to recognize when it isn’t a good option. It definitely wasn’t on that play. If it’s a tough/tossup call to make for the QB, bad playcall. It may have just been a bad read on a play the QB should have been able to read. Lastly….the red zone sequence. Hate the fade call. I always hate fade calls. All the evidence suggests fades are crappy routes that don’t work. So….yeah. Boooooo fade. Next, I support using Isi given that it was an outside zone. However, I’m not sure whether or not an outside zone was a good playcall. I literally do not know. Good to understand the limits of your football knowledge. No issue with the play to the TE – just hope there was a secondary read available on that play.

If I were in charge on that last sequence, I would have gone shotgun spread, 4 wide. Make the defense account for Maynard’s ability to run. Allen, Jones and Miller should all be viable threats in the red zone. Isi can catch the ball, block, or even run a read-option with Maynard. I think it would have been tough for UW to defend. That was my preference, and in my opinion, the best option. Biggest downfall is the potential for a bad snap. Even if it was the best option, though, I recognize there may have been other good options.

by Missing Barry on Sep 28, 2011 8:19 PM PDT reply actions  

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