If Cal Band Wants To Play During Football Games, Move From RR
by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 10:30 AM PDT
in California Golden Bears Football
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PrintFor the past year or two, I've been hearing about the constant complaints concerning the muzzling of the California Marching Band during football games. Some of these issues are unfortunately intractable for the near-term--the loud blaring ads that provide the money-starved Athletic Department require band silence, and unless we do annoying tie-ins ("vote for the song you want to hear by texting AT&T!"), the band probably won't get a lot of opportunities to play during breaks in the action.
But the other pressing issue I do hear is Jeff Tedford imploring the Cal band not to play during offensive huddles because the sound disrupts the offense. While many of you might think this is the case of a coach overcoaching, it should only take a glance at a seating chart to see why Cal band is complicit in this problem.
Cal's band is situated RIGHT behind the player bench in RR. The band plays right into the player sidelines, disrupting communication between the offensive coordinator relaying signals to the offensive coaching staff and the quarterback. If you think this doesn't have a significant effect, then I'm guessing you've never attended the university. The band can get loud, they can get exuberant, and they definitely make it difficult for players to communicate with coaches on the sidelines.
Now, after the jump, compare the band location to where other Pac-12 bands are situated.
Arizona Wildcats (Front of Section 10)
Arizona St. Sun Devils (Section 37)
Colorado Buffaloes (Lower half of 110)
Oregon Ducks (Bottom 2/3rds of Section 2 in the end zone)
Oregon St. Beavers (Front half of section 124)
Stanford Cardinal (Front half of 106 & 108--where the obnoxious text that says RED ZONE is situated)
UCLA Bruins (Bottom of Section 6/7 in Student Section)
USC Trojans (Sundeck)
Utah Utes (south endzone section in S1)
Washington Huskies (lower 2/3rds of Section 25)
Washington St. Cougars (Front of Section 34)
(All images courtesy of this awesome thread from The Gaming Tailgate)
As you can see from the pictures above, Washington's situation is closely analogous to Cal in terms of band location, but they don't have the same issues because they're well-buffered from the sidelines by that huge track. UCLA is also close, but they're still further off to the side in a much bigger stadium. Furd, Arizona and Colorado are all situated in the corner. ASU, Oregon, OSU, WSU & USC, Utah are situated where most college bands are situated these days--in the end zone.
Point is, college football coaches don't really want to deal with band noise. They don't want loud acoustics disrupting signals between playcalls and huddles. In a game like college football, one bad signal or playcall could turn into a disaster for our team, our season, our staff, our players. Hence, it's a pretty obvious move for Tedford to ask for silence when the offense is on the field.
Cal band members can easily play during games if they're willing to make some concessions, take the initiative, and move to a location in the football stadium further away from the home sideline (the corner of the young alumni section or even the Reserved Side, maybe even one of the end zones). The Straw Hat Band is pretty unabashed at other events (basketball & volleyball the two most prominent sports) because they're situated away from our athletes. This is an easily fixable issue.
Everyone wins if the marching band moves away from RR. Cal band gets to play more and be its usual exuberant self. Cal football gets to call the plays without much trouble. The athletic department frees up a crucial section to sell good tickets for students/alumni. Right now, everyone loses.
I think we can all agree we want to hear more of the Cal band during games. It's up to the Cal band to arrive at and address the obvious solution to their problems.
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Just to be clear, the views of Avinash here are not necessarily the views of CGB as a whole, but instead his own!
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Just to be clear, I do not wish for the band to be moved anywhere at any point ever. Just to be clear.
ALso, it amuses me that even Stanford’s mock up of their stadium is obnoxious:
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I agree with you on both counts. If we move the band, why not move the students too?
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by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Disagree
One of the best things about Cal is the way it has treated its students. It is unreal for the students and band to get tickets in territory that could be sold for double or triple what the students pay. Just giving up those seats and moving to the end zone will not allow the band to play that much more, or at least, not enough to give up one major perk. The biggest problem was the lack of communication between the “GameDay Experience Coordinator” and the band. Though the director is on a headset with them and is given a copy of the script, things get changed at the last minute, and opportunities to play are lost when yet another ad is read.
I think this is all part of a larger issue with the band and athletic department and university. Maybe it is time to think about moving the band and the students to the end zone, but it destroys too long of a tradition to just axe at once.
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by oskisunbear on May 27, 2011 10:54 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
this is exactly what I wanted to say. I assume most non-student paying fans don’t want to sit next to the band, so any band move is also a student move. Cal draws a lot of students who grew up cheering for So Cal colleges and all sorts of out of state places. It’s the game day experience that turns them into Cal fans and future donors.
by Josie Becker on May 27, 2011 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Few Q's
1st question. Band be moved. Students stay where they are.
2nd question. No, I’m guessing it’d at least have to be two sections over.
3rd question. Interesting point. I’m not sure how well it would trap noise.
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by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Why not just move the band one section over, to the bottom of the Young Alumni Section? It would take them away from directly behind the bench, continue to keep the Band with the Cal population, and also offer a bit more coverage to those sitting in secs T – V who would otherwise not really hear them.
Or is that some sort of sacrilege?
I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.
get ready for the QQ uproar when their seats get taken away! lol
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 27, 2011 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Whole stadium is getting reseated
and most of those in QQ will not be in QQ anymore – they are no longer young alumni (I’ll be losing my beloved Q tickets).
Now’s the time to think about these kinds of things with the whole stadium reseat.
by HelloBowlesHall on May 27, 2011 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
There are non-Young Alums seated in sections Q and QQ. Couldn’t people who wish to purchase tickets in those regions easily still purchase tickets in those regions, albeit at a higher cost than before?
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We’ll see, but I doubt it – I was in the young alumni section but I couldn’t choose those tickets for AT&T, bet the same will apply. That is, I think if you chose seats in the Young Alumni section there will be a proof test required.
That being said, like half of the young alumni section wasn’t young alumni, so I’m betting that they’ll be reselling those seats for higher prices after they don’t sell out during the seat choosing period.
It used to be that you could do what you asked, yes – you would just renew at the higher price and ask to stay in your seats and they’d do it, that’s how I’ve been in Young Alumni for roughly 15 years. With the global reseating I think that is out the window.
by HelloBowlesHall on May 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
I am confused. I think I might have confused you a bit with my comment. I am asking if I will be able to purchase a seat in Section Q or QQ or anywhere in that region, really, I don’t much care when 2012 comes around. That’s really all I need. One ticket somewhere between section QQ and the visitor’s section. Will that be possible?
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Ummm...
Dunno. My money is on it being possible, but you’d probably have to NOT select during the normal seat choosing and then wait for them to open up more generally.
Not sure it is worth it – there are equivalent sections in say U on the other side, I’ll probably do a low donation and do T/TT or something.
by HelloBowlesHall on May 27, 2011 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
All I need is a ticket somewhere on the Southeast side of the stadium and I’m good.
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Who's to say?
In recent years, the Visitors Sections have typically been O, OO, P, and PP. Blue Zone has helped to define the limits of the Visitors Section, and it has been as expansive as Sections KK through O (8 sections) and as small as Sections L-M (3 sections).
If the Blue Zone stays small, and the Visitors Section doesn’t exceed 4 sections, then I’d say there is a more than fair chance you’ll have seats available in the SE quadrant, even if you can’t get into Young Alumni.
I personally do not believe there is need for compromise. As goldblooded noted, the true problem that is limiting the band is the ads. The team might have some concerns, but it is the ads that are really cutting into playing time.
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Why were there more ads to begin with?
Was this a function of the marketing agreement that Cal signed with ISP Sports?
If so, then my understanding is that they’re gone after this year. Maybe things will change for the better because the band will have more opportunity to play.
I guess so. All the articles about the Pac12 contract indicate that Cal will not make as much money as one might think because they have to buy back a bunch of rights from ISP. So, maybe you are right. But I don’t see the experience becoming less commercialized. They’ll probably still have ads, but just through a different service.
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Part of it is a tech upgrade
The time that the band got for performances has lessened after the installation of the BearVision jumbotron on the SE rim of the stadium. Before that, the animated screens on the north and south scoreboards did not have the ability to transmit the commercials that companies wanted, but only simple animations. With that board, Athletics was able to get more money for its advertisments. The same is true for Haas Pavilion—-in the beginning they used to use the simple boards for animations and advertisments, but now they simply turn them off
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by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry, but I can’t read “Bearvision” and “Jumbotron” in the same sentence without laughing so hard I pee my pants a little bit.
by SanMateoBear on May 27, 2011 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions
better coordinate the timing
they should just play the ads when tedford wants the band to be quiet (offensive timeouts, huddles, etc) and the band plays the other times. i’ve noticed lots of dead air time in recent seasons. i think the band student director and the ad coordinator should get some football basics lessons.
by bluegoldandgreens on May 27, 2011 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I too like the CMB and their fantastic musical arrangements and would like to hear them play more during the game.
I also like any advantage our football team can gain from increased concentration.
Additionally, I don’t really care that CMB members would be getting worse seats for the games and I don’t really like Twist, so I say move the band!!!!!
/ducks
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
The location of the band is the problem! It’s all clear now! Seriously, Avi, please explain the success Bruce Snyder had while the band was located in the exact same spot and was actually allowed to play during games. And while you’re at it, please explain how Pappy Waldorf managed to win three straight conference titles with that dreadful band playing all the time.
If you think this doesn’t have a significant effect, then I’m guessing you’ve never attended the university.Yeah, that’s me. I never went to Cal and I am completely ignorant of the history of Cal football. You got me! And I guess when Pappy Waldorf called the Cal Band, “The epitome of the University of California,” he was just showing his ignorance, too.
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by CalBear81 on May 27, 2011 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 8 recs
I <3 u.
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by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions
Would you say this is how you feel about the proposal in this post?
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by TwistNHook on May 27, 2011 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Your answer seems to assume that the game of football hasn’t changed since the Snyder, Waldorf, era etc. and thus that Tedford shouldn’t have any problem winning either with band the band in its current location and from the noise it produces too. I’m not old enough to know how much different the game of football was back then for them, but noise does have an influence on the modern game.
I’m not saying band noise is a reason for Cal not winning Pac-10 championship games or anything, but band noise certainly is a factor in inhibiting the efficient running an offense. And when games can be won or lost on one play alone, the risk of band noise causing that one play to fail is very real.
For those people who don’t closely watch the Cal offense and what it does between plays, I think they often don’t realize the impact that noise has on the team. Whether you’re one of those people or not, I don’t know. But I am. I’ve seen it both as a fan and as a former Cal Football employee. I’ve seen the players and the coaches tell the band to stop playing because they can’t hear instructions in the huddle and on the sidelines. We’ve done interview with a former offensive linemen who vouched for the effect that noise has on the offense and how it gets put at a disadvantage. This noise stuff is no joke, whether it is coming from fans or the band.
I don’t have an opinion on where the band should be seated during games, but I do feel like the band should be very careful in choosing the direction which it plays, the amplitude of its playing, and the timing of the songs.
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by HydroTech on May 27, 2011 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only thing that has changed substantially since the Bruce Snyder days is the whining.
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by CalBear81 on May 27, 2011 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
BTW, the level of annoyance in my post is primarily based on the insulting way Avi presented his argument: if you disagree to him then you probably didn’t even go to Cal.
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by CalBear81 on May 27, 2011 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My take
The problem is the ads. Since the athletic department is imminently about to increase its income by at least $15 million per year, can they at least make the game-going experience more attractive by dumping the loudspeaker ads and either replacing them with nothing or with a perimeter billboard? And letting the band play more?
While I think that the band should get good seats, I’m sensitive to the football team’s needs. Section Q should be more than sufficient, and in fact more people in the stadium will be able to hear the band from there.
but the band is composed of students. they already get seats off of the 50, and they provide a service to the university. why punish band members by moving them into shittier seats?
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 27, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
The Athletics department has indicated that its future projections took into account Pac-12 money. Now, Larry Scott actually got 1.2 million per year above and beyond what they thought they would get. So, 1.2 million extra is amazing and great. But its not like were out of the blue here. I hate the ads as much as the next guy, but we might still need to look into using them. I dont know what Athletics plan is.
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Well,
If they keep up with the audio crap and keep the band from playing, I’ll be watching on TV. I’m not even sure how many games I’ll attend this year and I’ve been a season ticket holder for years.
by ososdeoro on May 27, 2011 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bruce Snyder and Pappy Waldorf didn’t have to deal with the power of the Oski Shuffle, and the Cal Pet of the Day, and the other random nonsense that we get during commercial breaks.
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by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
so would we be better if we went back to band songs during those times instead of ads?
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
Yes, but the ads aren’t going away anytime soon, so a compromise must be made until we can rid ourselves of them.
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by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
In the words of...
…..the judge from “What’s Up Doc?”,
“Stop saying that. Somebody make him stop saying that!”
Are we sure about that? I know Cal has to buy back their marketing rights as a part of the Pac-12 stuff, and I think that might include the stadium junk.
Admittedly, even if that’s true it’s all likely to be replaced with different annoying ads, but maybe there’s some hope.
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DONT SPEAK ILL OF THE CAL PET OF THE DAY
I hope to get my beloved cat on there someday. Someday. I need a good hook, though. But what? Cal jumpsuit? Cal yamulke? What plus cat equals Cal Pet Of The Day????
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I believe they pick the Pet of the Day randomly from the entries into the Cal Dress Your Pet contest.
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Sounds like I need to find out which employee chooses them and then slip them a Benjamin Franklin or three.
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I only have a Cal rain coat for my dog, but I’m hoping to get a collar and leash or something, then I’d be a shoe-in!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
I need to get an Oski suit for my cat!
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then pose him on a chain link fence next to a child in a cal hat, pure gold!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
we had an all-band discussion when we (oskisun and i) were juniors or seniors, 2007 season, i think. bob put it to us that the athletic department would be willing to let us play more (not a lot more) if they moved our seats to the endzone. the majority of the band agreed to play less and keep our seats.
with that said, though, the band used to play a lot more where they are, even when tedford was there. the 2004 and 2006 seasons come to mind. the yelling of the coaches had become noticeably worse by the 08 and 09 season, but it doesnt affect playing time nearly as much as the ads do, like oskisun said. the coaches being concerned with the team being distracted is more of a pathetic excuse, and frankly embarrassing. what are the coaches’ excuses when our team can’t focus because the amplified southern cal band plays that same song every down?
i understand why the band plays less, but it doesn’t mean i have to agree with it.
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Better Idea
This is my response to the suggestion on Golden Blogs to move the Cal Band to the end zone because Coach Tedford (JT) allegedly thinks the band playing is disruptive to the offense.
JT probably also doesn’t like having the rooting section immediately behind the team’s bench, as they can be even louder than the band. And the real point of the rooting section is for the band to the student section to all work together to support the team.
My suggestion: move the Cal team’s bench over to the press box side of the stadium. The alumni section makes a lot less noise than the student section. This will minimize noise disruption for the Cal team and coaches.
With the visiting team’s bench directly in front of the Cal student section and the Cal Band, the band and the student section can make all the noise they want to disrupt our opponents.
JT can still encourage all fans to make more noise when Cal is on defense and less noise when we are on offense.
by Randy Parent on May 27, 2011 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
You are smart. And I like your idea.
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by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
I think Pac-10 rules prohibit the student section being placed right behind the visitor’s bench.
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by GeoFreak on May 27, 2011 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
this is correct
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
I hear the Pac-12 rules totally allow something like this! LET’S DO IT!
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by TwistNHook on May 27, 2011 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Press Box Side = Visitor's Side in the Pac-12
Also, as GeoFreak noted, Pac-10/12 rules prohibit locating the student section behind the Visitor’s Bench.
As much as it pains me to say it, UCLA’s solution may be the most elegant. The UCLA Student Section (and their band) is situated between the 30 and the goal line at the north end of the field opposite the Press Box. The sidelines for both teams, by NCAA rule, is located between the 25-yard lines. There is a bit of overlap, but it’s clearly away from midfield which is where the offense and defense are likely to congregate when they’re on the sideline.
Then we go independent!@!!!!##$
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by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
the UCLA student section is so ignored though, off on their own little island
by Josie Becker on May 27, 2011 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions
yeah, they suck!
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 27, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
UCLA’s solution may be the most elegant.
Fail. First for not properly spelling Uclol. haven’t you seen the sides of their helmets? There is only one capital letter. Second because their solution is far from elegant. The place of the students in the center of the field is one of the things that Cal should never change. Students belong there. They are the ones who bring the most passion. Tossing them in a corner completely ruins that. Moving the band slightly to the edge would be about as far as I would consider elegant.
I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.
Oh noes the poor football players, having to play football when it is so noisy! I propose they move football games to Zellerbach Hall where the players can properly focus on their game without the distractions of crowd noise, cheers, and fight songs. Don’t let people into the game until intermission, I mean half time, if they arrive late! The lights are flashing, guys, return to your seats for the third quarter!
by kittwin on May 27, 2011 11:30 AM PDT reply actions 6 recs
You’re onto something. Football games should be run like tennis matches. The refs should say “quiet, please” and halt play until there is absolute silence. Any fan who makes noise or moves from his or her seat during play should be ejected.
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Well, if you went to Cal, CalBear81 (by the way, odd handle for someone who has not attended Cal), you would understand. But you did not go to Cal. So you don’t understand! Why didn’t you go to Cal!?
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s why she posted those articles about my middle school (Jane Lathrop Stanford)
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd rather us drop football
than turn it into a pro football experience.
it is already edging that way, and it sucks.
Go Bears Go
But we have been playing so well at home
Yeah, we lost more games at home this year, but before Riley went down, Cal offense played amazingly.
We lost vs. SC and OSU in 2009, as usual, but were undefeated at home in 2008 i believe.
Result wise, I dont see the band noise making negative impacts.
why not just move to the top of the student section?
by j.lee on May 27, 2011 12:07 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
I just want to hear CMB renditions of Thriller on a more regular basis, is that so much to ask?!?!?
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
u need to talk to the stud and MAC a season in advance. also u need to get the band to elect a mello player to StuD, basically.
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 27, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
K, what’s his email?
We need more Michael man, I mean sure he touched some children, but he’s Michael Jackson. MICHAEL JACKSON!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
we did a whole awesome michael jackson show in 2001. I believe it was the USC game where we scored 7 points and then USC scored like 55 unanswered points! I think every generation has their own awesome michael jackson show.
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Cal Band did a Halloween show in ’92 and (of course,) ended with Thriller.
Brought. The. House. Down!
Dude, our 2001 Michael Jackson show was the best Michael Jackson show the band has ever done!
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Did Michael Jackson ever do a Cal Band show?
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Yknow, the Michael Jackson show might have been in 2000 UCLA now that I think about it. I had breakoff band afterwards and I dont think I did breakoff in 2001 USC. I cant remember, it was so long ago and Im so old and potentially balding now.
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Ha!
The ’92 Halloween show was a totally better Michael Jackson Show than the non-existent 2001 Michael Jackson show!
No, this show existed, I know it.
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Justin Beiber was like 6 years old at the time!
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Inappropriate Acronyms
Where did “CMB” start and why? Let us put an end to this BruinsNation (BN) habit of abbreviating everything. It is “Cal Band”, people.
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by CBKWit on May 27, 2011 12:38 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I, for one, am eager to see even more BNification over here at CGB. It all starts with Acronymizing Everything (AE) Once the AE is complete then the BMs (Blog Mods) can start their POC (program of control) to ensure that all CGBMs (members) strictly follow PPP (Proper Posting Protocol), on threat of BFB (Banned from Blog).
So, let’s continue our discussion regarding whether JT is correct in blaming the CMB for all of KR & BM’s problems last year, and whether moving the CMB from the SS would help the OL protect ZM as he throws to KA for TDs to gain Ws so we can win the P12N, take the P12C, and make it to the BCS RB.
GB!
I'm thinking of having a little party down in Newport.
by SoCal Oski on May 27, 2011 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
yes?
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 27, 2011 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not a “BM”, thank you very much.
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by atomsareenough on May 27, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
According to our charter, it is the California Marching Band.....you may credit the UCMB to Bill Ellesworth
we also used to be “a sponsored activity of the Associated Students of the University of California”
instead of “the pacesetter of college marching bands, the Pride of California”
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions
apologies, yes thank you for the correction
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Obviously there is going to be a visceral reaction from former Cal Bandsmen (and Bandswomen)
Avi and other band haters,
I assure you that every Bandsmen ever to join would support the team in whatever way they could; one of the ways they have all chosen is to play music. We would never want to hinder the team from doing their best .
My guess is that this has been an issue since the beginning of the Cal Band. Certainly it was something the AD talked to the Cal Band director about when I was in school. We were able to coordinate and resolve the issue with everyone being happy and the Cal Band still playing just as much.
Perhaps this is a problem of execution rather than planning. After all, I refuse to believe that intelligent people at Cal are unable to figure something like this out (again.)
The bigger problem IMHO is the advertising. While smart people can easily figure out how to coordinate noise deconfliction, it is much harder to solve a lack of money. I fear we will need those advertising dollars for the foreseeable future. Can we move THOSE ads to after the game? That would definitely improve the gameday experience.
I’m very confused how “moving the band so they can play more” makes me a band hater.
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by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
Just ignore these people, Avi. They probably didn’t even go to Cal.
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by CalBear81 on May 27, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
But yes, you are correct, the advertisments are the problem, and they are an intractable one for the near future. Moving them after the game would ensure the advertisers would pay much much less for us to air them.
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by Avinash Kunnath on May 27, 2011 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions
The solution is obvious to all of us who attended Cal—replace the Cal Band with billboards! Not noisy at all and they will generate tons of revenue! I don’t know why the Cal Band hasn’t implemented this obvious solution yet themselves. Maybe they aren’t actual Cal students so they don’t get it?
by kittwin on May 27, 2011 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Why didn't I think of this sooner
I can hear the Cal Band announcer now " The music of Journey, brought to you by Henry’s"
Cal Memorial Stadium re-seating may piss off a lot of people
First, let me say that I am very comfortable with the historic seating arrangements at Cal Memorial. It’s part and parcel of my experience with Cal football and that I’d like to see it preserved. I enjoy that the Cal Marching Band is located where it is and that the Student Section is located where it is. Changing that drastically would be sad to me. It might even be unnecessary and reckless! ;)
When Cal announced on May 10, 2010 that they would play the 2011 football season at AT&T Park, Sandy Barbour said that AT&T would be the bridge to Cal Memorial in 2012. I took that to mean, in the most general sense, that AT&T Park would simply be Cal’s home away from home for one year.
Now, I’m not so sure it doesn’t mean something more than that.
In doing research on AT&T season ticket sales, it became obvious to me that AT&T is not just Cal’s home away from home for the 2011 season, it’s also a laboratory for re-seating Cal Memorial. The consequences may be far reaching.
Look at the 2011 Cal Football Ticket Pricing Map.
What big picture details emerge? Here’s what I see:
(1) There are big donor seats at midfield on both sidelines,
(2) The Students are in the North End Zone,
(3) “New Alumni” (the AT&T Park analog of “Young Alumni” at Cal Memorial) are schematically adjacent to the Student Section,
(4) Visitors are in the South End Zone (opposite from the Students Section).
I think that this may be indicative of the Athletic Department looking at re-locating students away from midfield for the sake of more ticket revenue and donations.
The trend that may be comforting to myself and many others here, is that ticket sales in Sideline Sections A, B, and C are abysmally slow and may have sent a clear signal to the AD that moving the Students Section will be counterproductive. I certainly hope so.
I really hope that you grace us with a fanpost or two on your analysis of the ticket sales at ATT. No trolling, serious.
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I agree Fiat…but what I hope they take away is their TOTAL and COMPLETE FAILURE in their designs. No one (okay maybe some random people) bought tickets in the bleachers and now they’ve had to lower the price $200, but that may very well be too little too late.
They should have placed the students there from the get go and they screwed the pooch on that one. One can only hope they learned their lesson. They may be trying to squeeze money out of alums but they need to realize us Cal folk are very traditional in our ways. Don’t mess with our seats! Or our band! You want money? How about you ask us? We’ll pony up if we feel it matters (see Save Cal Baseball)
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
I tend to think this is an oversimplification of the issue. I think the ATO messed up pricing AT&T in a couple ways:
1. Bleachers, despite all levels of awesome location (I sat there for Emerald Bowl, a wonderful experience), were valued WAY less by fans than they thought. I think that people are eager for a year of chairbacks and amenities after decades of Memorial Stadium (sorry CMS) ;-)
2. In general they just overpriced it. I think I read this over on Bear Insider, but as a percentage of all seats each donation level way way increased.
3. Despite their best efforts, I think going into the City for games has not turned out to be as popular as they thought. The Haas experience should have taught them better…
Coming off a losing season REALLY killed them too. I believe that they just did the math before the season – we can fill AT&T almost exclusively with season ticket holders, so we’ll milk ’em and make up the lack of quantity up with more revenue/ticket holder. This logic failed – they were not able to fill AT&T with season ticket holders, and those season ticket holders they got went for cheaper seats.
It will be very interesting to see what happens in 2012 – I think their non-ESP donor sections will have to be much more moderately priced (unless we have an extremely good season, and maybe not even then) or else they will be selling a lot of end zone ticket / corners and not many donor tickets….
by HelloBowlesHall on May 27, 2011 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions
I have to agree with you that yes it is definitely an over-simplification.
The losses I believe you are right contributed more to the overall “enthusiasm” for buying tickets. But in terms of the discrepancy regarding seats sold….it’s all about price. They totally screwed that up. David Dempster at BI has done a nice job tracking the sales and they never got above 5% in the best case scenario. That is worse than abysmal. Some one REALLY messed up…someone who 1) didn’t know what they were doing or 2) was told to price higher with some other plan in mind.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't mind.
I think the value of the music of the band is higher than its location. If moving a section or two over means playing more, I’m all for it.
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Small clarification
As you can see from the pictures above, Washington’s situation is closely analogous to Cal in terms of band location, but they don’t have the same issues because they’re well-buffered from the sidelines by that huge track.
A pretty significant uproar was made earlier this year when Scott Woodward and the athletic department announced they were moving the student section and band from the sideline to the endzone after the upgrades to Husky Stadium are made. They didn’t shy away from telling everyone, either, that it was for the sake of generating more money from those high-value seats.
If I were Cal, it’d be best to just tell everyone now that, like Fiat said, the AT&T seating design is a preliminary guide to how the new stadium will seat attendees. Something tells me you all will be far less incensed at the idea of the student section and band in the endzone if you’re told about it more than a season in advance with a testing period at AT&T.
AD vigorous rejects this idea
For what it’s worth, I put up a post about moving the student seats in the summer of 2009 and got a personal call from the AD’s director of information asking me to amend my post to make it clear the idea was not coming from them:
http://excusemeformyvoice.com/blog/?p=1303
The language in the post is more vague than what he told me in person, but he made it pretty clear the were NOT going to consider moving the students.
by kencraw on May 27, 2011 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
She has not only saved Cal sports, she has made Cal sports relevant and in the future will make Cal sports DOMINANT. She is the great AD in the nation right now…and all the Sandy haters are ignorant morons.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions
what about the ads? the radio delay? there have been mistakes made. she ain’t perfect.
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What ads? What radio delay? I ask, because I am genuinely ignorant of these criticisms. Are people criticizing her for bringing in advertisements? That seems foolish.
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i guess they’re a necessary evil. but they really make going to football games suck more. i have no idea why the radio delay was instituted, but all of these things that are being done to the gameday make it seem like fans are less and less welcome.
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
Frankly, I don’t think she has a choice. It’s either that or cut sports. You try telling three or four sports teams that they are cut because you don’t want to see the stupid dot races on our mini-tron.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
No, it's a gameday experience thing
Many people have noticed that there are ads during media timeouts and team timeouts. It seems that this has come at the expense of the Marching Band playing during these same periods. Ergo, much less satisfaction with the gameday experience.
Radio delay – the last two seasons there has been a built in radio delay (5 secs?) on KGO broadcasts received over the radio. UNLESS you buy a special radio for $20 that doesn’t have the delay. I’m pretty sure this was a move made by ISP. I’m also pretty sure that not more than few hundred units were sold.
All it served to do was to piss people off and made me even more certain I would not listen to KGO, period.
I dont listen to the radio, so I dont know much about that. That does sound like a money making ploy. If we get ISP out of it, then maybe thatll go away.
As for the ads, Im well aware of the ads. Im well aware they suck. Im well aware we were worse than flat broke until recently.
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Yeah, I hate the ads as much as the next person….but until a better system is devised or we rake in huge amounts of dough from donors they are here to stay.
I think it is fair to criticize the marketing department for making the ads seem rather obnoxious rather than integrated into the gameday experience. There has to be a better way to get sponsorship than what they are doing…but that is on marketing. In that regard I hope Sandy lights a fire under their asses because Cal marketing has sucked for a very long time.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you think that's still valid in 2011?
The seating configuration at AT&T begs the question: if AT&T is a bridge to Cal Memorial in 2012, why doesn’t the seating configuration reflect that idea or promise?
Here’s where I would have made changes to the AT&T Seating Configuration:
(1) Sections A&B would be the Student Section,
(2) Section C would be New Alumni,
Changes (1) and (2) would have required the Cal bench to be in front of Sections A, B, and C. But it would also mirror Cal Memorial in 2010 and affirm the AD’s commitment to the Students in Cal Memorial in 2012.
(3) Sections 136-142 (Left Field Bleachers) would be equivalent to Gold Zone or Blue Zone seats,
(4) Sections 132-135 (Left Field Promenade level seats) would be $0 donation $300 seats,
(5) Section 125 would drop from $1200 donation to $800 donation; sections 121-124 and 128-131 would change their donation levels downward,
(6) Sections 115-119 would drop from $100 donation to $0 donation $300 seats,
(7) Sections 214-219 would drop from $800 donation to $400 donation seats,
(8) Sections 202-213 would drop from $800 donation to $200 donation seats,
(9) Sections 320-331 would also see reductions in donation levels.
I bet with those changes Cal would have sold another 10,000 season tickets by April 15th.
I wonder if Cal is complete control in setting those prices. AT&T Park must be getting a cut, I wonder if they were against giving premium seats away to students, or if Cal would have trouble making rent if they did
by Josie Becker on May 27, 2011 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s just as much if not more of an assumption to assume that the AT&T seating corresponds to what they want to do in 2012 as is my assumption that what was said 2 years ago still remains true. There are a number of reasons, Josie’s example being one, that they could have been obligated to use the seating they’re using at AT&T. Perhaps Tedford wanted the grandstand side for the Cal bench (out of the sun, etc) but the AD wasn’t willing to stick the donors with the bleachers and so the students ended up in the endzone, since they couldn’t be behind the visitor bench. There are other possibilities as well.
To put more clarity around my original comment, doing Cal football reporting work from 2006-2009 for Rivals, I always feared getting a number of calls about my blog posts, so I tended to keep them tame, particularly at first. Nevertheless, this was the ONLY time that Beneson called me about the blog. It was blazingly clear that it was pretty important to them to cut off that rumor before it started.
It's a given that Cal is paying rent to the Giants
I can’t imagine that Cal wouldn’t pay rent. But I also think that Cal otherwise has complete control in setting ticket prices. Where would the Giants have an interest in setting ticket prices?
I can easily imagine that Tedford wanted the team in front of the grandstand, especially if it’s true that he doesn’t want the Marching Band playing while coaches are trying to talk to their players. But then that begs the same question about Cal Memorial in 2012. Why would he get his way at AT&T and not get his way at Cal Memorial in 2012? Further, why would the AD risk not selling the vast majority of 5,000 seats (and forgo about $800K in ticket revenue) just so Tedford could be away from the Band for one season? It doesn’t make sense.
The Sideline Bleacher seats did not sell because there are no concessions and restrooms close by and the price being asked was more than most seats at AT&T. What was the thought process there? As I said earlier, put the Students and the Young Alumni sections in the Sideline Bleacher sections with the Cal team in front: it would make sense.
With all due respect to Herb Benenson and to you, the reason it was important for Cal to get in front of that speculation is that they want to control the timing and the content of what’s coming out: that’s advertising/marketing 101. Let me be clear: I’m not intending to cast aspersions on anyone. I’m merely saying that circumstances change over time and it’s not absolutely clear what the configuration of Cal Memorial in 2012 will be beyond the ESP and other donor sections on the West Side.
Fair enough, we won’t know for sure what they’re going to do until they do it and things do change over time.
But I still think you’re placing too much weight on what’s happening at AT&T. Just remember this, if Tedford wants the team on the grandstand side for whatever reason, the students CAN NOT, per Pac-12 rules, be in the bleachers on the opposite side.
If the AD had realized how poorly those seats were going to sell in the grandstands (and I agree with your reasons), I think they may have made adjustments to the plan and placed restrictions on what Tedford wanted. But it’s giving them too much credit to assume they appreciated how poorly those seats were going to sell.
Unfortunately there’s no way for me to back this up, but I feel pretty strongly that when Herb called, it wasn’t a calculated marketing move. It was a honest attempt to get in front of what could turn into a false rumor, something that they felt pretty strongly about not changing. It was strong enough in my mind that I don’t think 2 years time passing would change the mindset.
But I guess we’ll find out for sure in about 9 months.
This is an important point
But I still think you’re placing too much weight on what’s happening at AT&T. Just remember this, if Tedford wants the team on the grandstand side for whatever reason, the students CAN NOT, per Pac-12 rules, be in the bleachers on the opposite side.
At the same time, I don’t understand why some of the most expensive seats would be in the Sideline Bleachers precisely because concessions and restrooms are not conveniently located. It boggles the mind. I suppose Marketing screwed this up, big time. That’s the simplest explanation.
If the AD had realized how poorly those seats were going to sell in the grandstands (and I agree with your reasons), I think they may have made adjustments to the plan and placed restrictions on what Tedford wanted. But it’s giving them too much credit to assume they appreciated how poorly those seats were going to sell.
And I wonder who developed the pricing strategy. The whole thrust of the AT&T plan went against evidence of what was selling at Cal Memorial and what was planned for 2012. But again, it raises the question in my mind, “Why would anyone place $600 donation seats in bleachers with concessions and restrooms a significant distance away? Isn’t that pertty much what the East Side at Cal Memorial is like?” It’s a question I can’t shake; it’s a question that gives me pause.
Unfortunately there’s no way for me to back this up, but I feel pretty strongly that when Herb called, it wasn’t a calculated marketing move. It was a honest attempt to get in front of what could turn into a false rumor, something that they felt pretty strongly about not changing. It was strong enough in my mind that I don’t think 2 years time passing would change the mindset.
I haven’t spoken to Herb in a few years, but I still agree with this. No matter who you are, though, either you control your message or others will. It’s a basic principle of business.
SI think you’re absolutely correct that we’ll probably know what’s up for the 2012 season by next February or March.
But again, it raises the question in my mind, "Why would anyone place $600 donation seats in bleachers with concessions and restrooms a significant distance away? Isn’t that pertty much what the East Side at Cal Memorial is like?" It’s a question I can’t shake; it’s a question that gives me pause.
I totally agree with you here, FiatSlug. There is no way the Great Bleacher Experiment wasn’t a test to see whether people value amenities or field position more. Which, it’s hard not to conclude, was someone testing whether moving the students would create a financial windfall.
The good news for the students and the lovers of tradition is that rich people have spoken more loudly than anyone could have imagined that they value amenities over field position, so one would have to guess the student section is safe at Memorial.
I think (hope) 2011 is one giant exercise in the elasticity of demand and understanding how the customer base prioritizes different features. There was a lot to learn from how people behaved in choosing their seats at AT&T. It’s the only time the ATO has had visibility into the process, since in a normal year most people just keep their same seats.
I do expect we’ll see some changes out of it, probably some that a lot of people won’t like, but that enough will to make it worthwhile. But I’d question whether Memorial in 2012 will mirror AT&T in 2011, precisely because mistakes have been made at AT&T and there is a chance to rectify them in Memorial.
Firstly, I think anyone who opposes Avi’s proposal should say whether they are/were in the band. Let’s get any potential points of bias out there.
Secondly, it’s not like Avi baby’s suggesting the band not play at all. Rather, he’s saying to move them over a bit so maybe our offense and, perhaps, team, can get on the same page on gamedays. Kinda lame, I know, but maybe it’s needed.
Thirdly, I think they should go right next to the donors. They could use a little life. Moreover, we’r moving more towards inhibiting the opposing team.
Yes, they’re still in the stadium, yes the student’s will still be fine, and, yes, overall, Cal will be for the better.
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I was never in the marching band and am an unbiased source. In fact, I actively hate the marching band and am, thus, biased against the marching band. So, you can trust me on this!
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions
I too have no affiliation with the band and think anyone who considers moving them to be worse than Hitler.
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by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions
the band already doesn’t play at all. as in my previous post, i believe that the band has not changed much in a few years since we’ve been out of it, and that they still value their seats more than playing time, as we did in 2007 when it was first suggested that the band be moved.
secondly, if the team can’t get on the same page because of the band barely playing as it is, there is a much bigger problem than some music. it’s silly to blame the band. leave them there. let the revenue try to pour in from the TV deal and maybe the ads go away. the band can play less for now while we wait for things to get better. in the meantime, don’t move them further away from their awesome seats.
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Agreed that this certainly seems to be an issue of communication. Perhaps a Red light/green light system can be integrated into the skybox visually so the band know when they can play (without the need to headsets, etc). I mean this is the 21st century, there should be wireless technology that allows proper communication to happen and maximize the band’s playing.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
tell the dude/lady on the other side of the earpiece, the StuD directs when he gets the O.K.
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So why is it the “other side” is making it difficult to play? Is it one way communication? Are there time-frames that make it hard (i.e. you have thirty seconds or two minutes etc)?
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Completely disagree
With the notion that moving the Band is needed.
With a little better coordination, there would be no problems with the band playing when the team didn’t want. How do I know? Because this was an issue when I was at school and we worked it out. No one had to move and everyone was happy (or at least satisfied.)
I have never been in the Cal Band or any other band, and have no musical talent or abilities whatsoever. That makes me an expert, apparently.
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I, like you, like the band even though we weren’t in it. Put another way, if the band was somewhere else in the stadium already, I wouldn’t say “WE NEED TO MOVE THEM NEXT TO THE STUDENTS!!!”
I think they’re a fantastic part of COLLEGE football, but apparently they interfere with Cal’s ability to succeed. If this is really how the football team feels, then I say let’s try and accomodate them. If it doesn’t bother them at all, then I’m fine with the band staying.
I just feel like a lot of the folks opposing Avi’s post are or were in the Cal Band and they oppose anything that’s anti-band?
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I was in the band
but I oppose it more of the idea that Tedford’s desire to control absolutely everything, which has increased in recent years, seems to mirror the decline of his teams. It’s akin, in my mind, to the closed practices. I don’t think it’s much of a stretch to find a connection between how tight the team seems to be and how tightly wound Tedford is/how tightly he controls everything.
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Sorry I disagree, I think that’s a stretch.
Tedford has a right as the head coach to ensure that he is putting his team in the best position possible to succeed. Also recognize that JT LOVES the band. He loves the Cal tradition. He pumps it up all the time.
It’s a tough thing that airtime is in such high demand at Memorial Stadium. But that’s not JT’s fault.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Tedford loves the band. I have heard otherwise around campus. But I think that’s sort of beside the point.
I agree that the ads are the biggest thing impacting the amount the band plays, by far. So, in that sense, I don’t really see how moving the band will solve anything. If moving the band over a section or two meant that they’d play 50% more, I’d be all for it, but I highly doubt that’s the case.
In any case, my main point is Tedford tightly controlling all of these seemingly insignificant details, and how I think that misses the point in building a good team. I don’t think it’s a particularly good strategy to require that everything be perfect in order to run an effective offense – this is college football after all, and weird shit happens all the time. And I think it’s a HUGE stretch to suggest the band is somehow responsible for our inept offense the last few years. That doesn’t hold much water to me.
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by CBKWit on May 27, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
And I think it’s a HUGE stretch to suggest the band is somehow responsible for our inept offense the last few years. That doesn’t hold much water to me.
Agree with this statement, but could the Band be a tiny tinny little bit responsible?
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
the band being responsible for our inept offense?
if we’re going for reasons behind our suckitude, I’d say the band ranks somewhere between the ghost of Tom Holmoe and Planned Parenthood
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by CBKWit on May 27, 2011 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
My issue
Is with the assumption that moving the Band and not letting them play are the only two options.
I think that’s just Avi making a post that would get people talking and thinking. He’s certainly done that given the number of comments flying out. So he wins! ;-)
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the takeaway message here is that former band members are both
1. Flexible to change and
2. Willing to do anything to help the team
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
And
4. Didn’t go to Cal.
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My personal view is:
1. The “Band Hurting Team” thing is overblown.
2. The change, as outlined here, would not provide substantially greater opportunities for the band to play, in any way directly lead to any improvement in the team itself, and ruin a great tradition.
I honestly do not see the upside to the change, as outlined in this post, based upon my appreciation of the importance of the facts. I think some people think certain facts are more important than I do (i.e. how much affect the band’s playing has upon the team) and that is why they have differing views. Fair enough.
Your post seemed to denigrate the marching band alums, but I believe that you can disagree with Avi’s proposal withough being resistant to change or wanting to hurt the team or whatever.
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by TwistNHook on May 27, 2011 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well, the upside would be the band playing more, firing up the crowd more, and leading to happier alums, ultimately helping the team. Shouldn’t that be the ultimate goal of the band?
It just seems like the general response has been for Tedford and the team to suck it up because Snyder’s teams could. Very Us vs. The Man and not “let’s find a workable solution.”
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
In my view, the limiting factor to the band playing more is not whatever Tedford is doing, but the ads (and also apparently poor communication between the band and some Athletics Director of Gameday Experience). Multiple band members of a most recent generation than myself have confirmed that in this thread.
So, again, by moving, I am not certain that it will lead to playing more, firing up the crowd more, and leading to happier alums, ultimately helping the team. I am certain it will ruin the tradition.
You state that we should be focusing on “finding a workable solution.” We disagree on the basic threshold of whether there is even really a problem here.
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Even if the gain is minimal, it is still greater than zero, no? What, in your opinion, is the downside that outweighs this gain? Worse seats? Less student connection?
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
it’s needless. the band is not a problem. why move it when they’re happy where they’ve been for as long as we all can remember?
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
I’m being told the band is a problem…
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve seen, with my own eyes, both Jeff Tedford and football players yelling at the band to tell them to stop playing because they can’t hear shit in the huddle.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps the “band” is not the problem as much as “when the band plays” in the current conditions is the problem.
But the point Spaz is making: there’s a problem.
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Fellow Calbandmen can correct me if I'm wrong
Not one of us thinks playing when it hurts the Football team is OK. That does not equal we need to move the Band.
Yeah, I’m actually not pro-move either. But it is worth considering what is the problem and clearly defining it. I think Avi could do a follow-up post in this regard with a little investigative journalism…?
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by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
i’m of the thought that it’s silly for someone to say that the band hurts the team in any way. firstly, we’re not nearly loud enough, and secondly, noise shouldn’t be a problem for a football team. noise should be ever-present in any respectable stadium and everyone should have to deal with it! this is only what i think, though.
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
1. Tradition. Thats the biggest thing. The band has been there for a billion years. To me, that is a big thing. You might value it less, fair enough. But I place a lot of value on that and so even a minimal gain would not be enough to me.
2. Having the band with the students creates this great ball of energy there. Moving that disrupts that energy.
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Well, I disagree on both counts and lets just leave at that.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think Spazzy is saying the band “has to go.” But rather that a solution should be found. I can support that AND the Band.
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
No, no, I AM saying the band should go. Instead of a band we should simply give everyone in the stands either a free kazoo or vuvuzela. Their choice.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
That's exactly it
1. It is not clear that the band WOULD play more if they moved.
As previously discussed, the biggest reason the Band doesn’t play more has nothing to do with the coach.
2. Moving the Band is the ONLY way to prevent them from interfering with the team
Again, when I was in band, we had the same issue and we worked it out pretty easily. I believe that a system HAS been worked out, but it seems it is not being used well and maybe if we fixed that problem, this would be a non-issue.
Ultimately, this proposal asks for students (in fact the whole Cal community,) to give something up for no discernible benefit.
by yorzepol on May 27, 2011 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
What exactly is being given up?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it really? That’s it?! One section?!
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions
I dunno, 50 yard line seats versus end zone seats is a big difference.
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions
PS — not and never was or had any desire to be in the Cal Band.
PSS — Cal band GREAT!
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions
Cal Band Great and all, but … world’s tiniest violin incoming…
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I also think if the band moves they are lending credence to the absurd suggestion that they are somehow a detriment to the football team, which I think is insulting to those students who put all their time and effort into the Cal Band.
I also think if the team has to change huddle strategy they are lending credence to the absurd suggestion that they are somehow a detriment to the band, which I think is insulting to those students who put all their time and effort into Cal football.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know where you are getting the idea that Cal Band thinks it is above the Football team; certainly not form the Bandmen on this board.
We vehemently disagree with the notion that the band must be moved because it is without merit. Thinking we know whether the band is potentially a detriment to the football team is not the same as thinking we are more important than the football team (whom we have not heard from BTW)
What if we moved the band to the 50 yard line?
I don’t mean seats, I mean literally the 50 yard line.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
I have. From the band members.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
What if the Band played jingles instead of Cal songs?
Can we get rid of the ads if they do a Bank of the West jingle? Maybe a Muscle Milk diddy?
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:08 PM PDT reply actions
Old Spice Man whistle
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions
oh oh oh and dress up members of the band as Odwala bottles and race em across the field, I got my money on the Mango Tango Sousaphoner!!!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on May 27, 2011 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m going with the C Monster Glockenspiel!!!!
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I HAVE THE SOLUTIONS!!!
Instead of calling plays with hand signals and yelling. We can take a play out of the Oregon teams book.
But rather than using stupid signs…..wait for it….
WE USE THE BAND!!!!!!! TO CALL IN PLAYS!!!!!
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on May 27, 2011 4:18 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Okay this is fucking brilliant.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 27, 2011 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions
Are band members in fact geeks?
Ok, I just used that title to get your attention.
1. Someone asked above for people to say whether they are/were in the band. I’d also ask for people point out if they are/were on the football team. We can pontificate about the effect of the band on the football team, but I’m guessing no one here really knows how it may or may not affect them. I’m guessing most people posting here haven’t played Div 1 football.
2. I don’t see “tradition” as being a good argument for not moving the band. First, things change, deal with it. Second, we also have a strong “tradition” of not going to the Rose Bowl (not saying that’s the bands fault in any way- just saying, not all “traditions” are good.)
3. yes
I feel like I should add that I don’t think the band needs to be playing songs between plays all the time, especially offensive plays. I think pregame, halftime, Fight after TDs/field goals, Big C on a big defensive play, maybe a rock song after the third quarter, and post game. That seems like more than enough to me! The band is there to create a home game “Go Bears!” atmosphere, not to put on a 3-hour long concert. The whole idea of “the band wants to play more,” “we want the band to play more,” “the band can’t stop putting their instruments in their mouths every 30 seconds and thus are ruining our offense,” and “the obvious solution is to move them” is just really incomprehensible to me.
that’s all that exists now, pretty much. i like to think that hearing the band is more pleasant than hearing ads. given an alternative, i would choose the band. i think it’s a matter of the fact that the band used to play more, and some fans want to see a return to that. obviously, not all fans care either way.
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
The band doesn't play enough!
In my day (early 90’s) the band played a song, whether a Cal song or rock song, at least 90% of the time when there was a stoppage of play due to a time out or the end of a quarter. So, that meant maybe we didn’t play for one or two time outs TOTAL out of an entire game. Sometimes we would even play little “song clips” lasting 15 seconds or so after a good offensive play. Remember “Superman” after a Russell White first down? With this as my history it just seems plain WEIRD to me that the band doesn’t/can’t play on every time out. When a commercial is showed/announced at the stadium I wish I had a DVR remote to fast forward to the football action.
Maybe I’m a dreamer but my ideal college football experience has no room for ads that demand my visual and/or auditory attention. The experience should be football, BAND, spirit groups, lively/rowdy students, and maybe some acknowledgement of campus heroes during a timeout. That’s it. I think the only good ads are the ones flashed on the video screen or scoreboards in SILENCE when the band is playing.
Oh, and Avi, lay off the Band’s seats. Just because you couldn’t sit in them….
if the band is indeed "too loud"...
for the coaching staff to communicate with the offense, then the athletic department should also seriously consider forgoing all of the revenue associated with sections of Memorial Stadium filled with away fans. Away fans, loud and highly detrimental to efficient Cal playcalling.
/snark
one thing i hope to never learn from alumni
apathy is acceptable!
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
Meh.
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions
How can a football team that can’t call plays when there’s noise ever win on the road?
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
Apparently, we can’t.
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
I blame the Nevada band for our loss in Reno last year!
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Apparently this is true. We can’t win at home against $c because their band and fans make too much noise when we’re on offense.
by SanMateoBear on May 27, 2011 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions
you’re really missing the point here. it’s a hard fact that noise makes it harder to run an offense. Every team playing on the road has to deal with noise. But why make things harder at yourself at home by subjecting your offense to more noise than necessary? That’s all that the less-noise people are saying. But To say that teams can win on the road despite opposing crowd noise and thus the home team should have to deal with friendly fan noise is ridiculous. Do you really want to throw the home field advantage out the window and make our own Memorial stadium as hard to play in as Autzen?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
My overwhelming takeaway from this discussion...
…is that the Cal band thinks it’s more important to the gameday experience than the football team is. It’s really mind blowing.
by Scootie on May 27, 2011 6:04 PM PDT reply actions 4 recs
I don’t see that at all. My mind is somewhat blown that you do.
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
by CalBear81 on May 27, 2011 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That’s a pretty glib interpretation. I’d suggest that some of us feel that blaming the band for the team’s troubles is absurd and moving them is not the solution, especially since the band has already made adjustments not to play during certain situations.
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on May 27, 2011 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions
If that’s your take away from this discussion, you are pretty dense.
by SanMateoBear on May 27, 2011 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I may disagree with Scootie, but the last thing I would ever call her would be dense.
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
Counsel, how, exactly, would you quantify her mass per unit of volume, then? I rest my case.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on May 28, 2011 1:23 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe that would be a relative assessment. Scootie is probably more dense than a helium balloon, but less dense than, say, a lead bar.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on May 28, 2011 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
My takeaway from this discussion is that some people believe that the band is genuinely affecting the football team. Others do not.
Merely because the people do not believe that the band is genuinely affecting the football team does not mean that they think the gameday experience is more important than the football team.
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I will admit that there have been many, many, many times over my 40+ years as a Cal fan that the Cal Band was the ONLY enjoyable part of the gameday experience.
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
aka every time you watched me play out there?
The internet's most successful troll!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
I don’t think the question is whether the band affects the football team or not. It does. It’s a fact. Anyone who believes otherwise is just a plain idiot. The real issue is whether the football should have to just deal with band noise or not while at home. Cal band supporters always say yes and then something like, “but football teams have to play despite opposing fan noise when on the road so band noise at home should be fine too!” but that reasoning completely dismisses the entire idea behind home field advantage. And when pro cal band people throw out reasoning like that, it is no wonder that people get the idea that Cal Band members think they are more important than the band (as Scootie so perfectly illustrated).
So I guess where that leaves us is a big discussion on what is more important to the game day experience, the band or the football team? I’m going with the football team. And I say that as a huge Cal Band supporter too (more than most of you probably know).
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
the band has been on the no-playing-on-offense plan since 2007, so this is, as i have stated before, a nonissue with today’s and the most recent teams anyways. and the only current cal band member commenting here, as far as i know, is joe bandsman.
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 28, 2011 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Anyone who believes otherwise is just a plain idiot.
Wow, Hydro, your arguments are even more clever than Avi’s!
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
by CalBear81 on May 28, 2011 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
My overwhelming takeaway from this discussion....
Pictures of Pac 12 stadiums with student sections
Point is, college football coaches don’t really want to deal with band noise.
This is one of the silliest, out of touch statements I have ever seen when your only evidence you have offered up is the seating charts for all of our conference members. That football coaches have any say in how seating is configured is absurd. Seating is determined by the Athletic Department, not the coach.
And now for our history lesson of the day……there is a reason Cal’s students have always been seated on the eastern side of the stadium in by far the best seats in the house. It is because at this fair university athletics used to be run by the students, for the students, and therefore THEY determined where their own seats were placed. When the ASUC sold Athletics to the university in the ’50s (for the bargain of a building at Bancroft and Telegraph, to be the new Student Union), the students were able to retain their section behind their team, between the 30 yard lines. There have been many attempts made over the years by many athletic directors to wrest those very expensive, lucrative seats from the students, but every time alumni, the students, and even chancellors on occasion have come to their defense.
As a group made up of students and run by students, Cal Band will not be leaving them for any reason.
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
What about as a group of hobos riding the rails and holding all of their worldly possessions in a hankerchief wrapped around a large stick? Will the Cal Band be leaving then?
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And what if Governor Reagan places Berkeley under martial law?
Official Acceptor of TwistNHook's Unconditional Surrender Person of CGB and Queen of Spite Recs
Basses save the world?
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Why doesn’t the bad just play all the time on defense and then keep quiet on offense? They can stay where they are because the student section (should be) making more noise than the band and it’s right behind the team bench.
As of the opposing team? Fuck ’em. Especially USC considering what their “band” does.
In other words, Go Bears!
Athletics is making money off commercials, and we’re not allowed to play over said commercials
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions
Do said commercials play when the opposing team is on offense (and we are on defense)? I think not. Plus it helps distract them
In other words, Go Bears!
pretty much every second that the ball is not in play on the field
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
How about moving....
the team to the alumni side where Tedford can scheme in front of a bunch of librarians? If that were to happen the band and students can stay put allowing the band noise to annoy the opponents instead of the frail leadership of Jeff Tedford.
AGAINST CONFERENCE RULES
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
by Joe Bandsmen on May 27, 2011 11:46 PM PDT up reply actions
All Tedford has asked is for the band to stop playing during offensive huddles
That means his leadership is “frail”?
Keeping January 1 open. You know, just in case.
I think JT’s leadership being frail or not is a separate question better addressed when we discuss the blowout losses of the past two seasons. Hopefully after our 2011 season this will be a moot question.
by SanMateoBear on May 28, 2011 7:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Just gonna leave this here as I am quite neutral in this bickering.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on May 28, 2011 12:29 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I still don't see why moving the band a few sections away from the team is wrong??
Tradition?? Well, things change. And not all traditions are necessarily good.
Because it doesn’t really affect the football team?? Everyone arguing for not moving the band is likely a pencil neck geek who hasn’t played Div 1 football, so how do they really know what does or doesn’t affect the football team.
The only thing I can come up with is that the band wants to be closer to the cheerleaders… the closest they’ll get to naughty girl parts since they were pushed through their mom’s birth canal.
Woah, slow down there, big boy, there are many girls in the band, too! I mean I kept my distance thanks to a phlanx of restraining orders, each one more appropriate than the last. But still!
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i don’t think you had to try to keep the girls away, twist!
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 28, 2011 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
sorry joe, but you’re going to get thrown in with the pencil-neck geek crowd since you’re posting on an internet forum. them’s the breaks. plus, none of us here are even in the band any more. why don;t you go back to posting at BI or wherever the tough guys hang out?
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on May 28, 2011 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions
oooh, band geek stereotypes
if we’re going to delve into this level of debate, I would like to point out that, during my time in band a half decade ago, band guys (and mic men and spirit group people) fucked more cheerleaders than the football team, precisely because the band/spirit groups/dance team work together and interact with each other a fair amount.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Interesting thread!
Great thread.
As a huge traditionalist, I think the idea of moving the band to section QQ actually has some merit and is intriguing.
As a huge anti-traditionalist, I think this whole proposal is a non-stater.
First, the band no longer plays when the Bears are on offense anyway.
Second, the band could be on Tightwad Hill, and Tedford still wouldn’t want them to play when the Bears are on offense.
Third, the tradition I am most against is the most recent one of our team having a crappy offense. Just as having the band not play is under JT’s control, so is this. I am hoping he is as successful in fixing the offense as he has been in having the band not play.
by SanMateoBear on May 28, 2011 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Things change
Move the band, play in SF for a year, have four different home uniforms, litter games with ads, cut down trees, add two more teams to the conference, have a game after the Big Game, play on Thanksgiving weekend, have a conference title game. We’re supposed to get over it, deal with it, get used to it, move on, adjust.
Tradition is just so old fashioned.
As a band-loving traditionalist whose been a regular at Memorial Stadium since Randy Gold was under center, the only tradition I want to see changed is the 52 year tradition of not going to the Rose Bowl.
Too much noise at a football game? What’s next? All the blue clothes in the stands is a distraction. Jesus wept….
CAL Band
This was never a problem before Tedford and before the athletic department decided to run ear shattering commercials after every timeout or break in play.
Love your handle.
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on May 28, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
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