Cal Football: One Quarterback Away Once Again
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 9:48 AM PDT
in California Golden Bears Football
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The California Golden Bears really had a chance in this one against the USC Trojans. Zach Maynard let it get away.
He's not the only culprit. The Cal run game, which looked like it was finally making progress against Oregon, was completely clamped down by the USC front seven, daring Maynard to throw on every occasion. There were special teams gaffes like an ill-timed fake punt that set up USC with great field position. A Keenan Allen early fumble started the trend of trends, and Michael Calvin not maintaining a clean handoff from Maynard put him in a precarious situation to throw his first of three picks.
But ultimately, like so many Cal losses over the past five years, this loss will fall on the quarterback's shoulders, and this one deservedly so. Maynard knew it, Jeff Tedford knew it, everyone in the stadium resignedly knew it. This game was a golden opportunity to show that the Bears were finally ready to compete with the big boys of the conference. This was a game that could've gone down to the wire if Bryan Anger just kept on booting footballs. But because they traded in turnovers on short fields for 20 USC points on 62 yards of Trojan offense, the Bears are looking pretty low on the Pac-12 pecking order right now.
Maynard always seems to bring out a new tendency every game that has to drive Cal fans crazy. Against Washington, he couldn't hit anyone in the red zone after proving he could shred defenses anywhere else on the field. Against Oregon, a thigh contusion seemed to make his erratic mechanics even more deficient. And against USC, to seemingly improve his accuracy (which was pretty good), he honed in on his first read again and again.
The Trojans secondary was there and ready to pounce.
Every pick was fundamentally egregious, particularly the throw to Marvin Jones in the end zone that attracted THREE USC defenders. His helmet was turned toward the receiver early, his windup was slow, and the linebackers and safeties were breaking on those throws.
Keenan Allen, who had his latest career night, noted that his brother seemed to target him too much (which led to an early interception deep in Cal territory).
Maynard defended his tendency to throw to his brother, saying that he was a playmaker. No doubt, but Maynard's desire to hit the big play has come at the cost of balance with the offense, as Allen and Jones were targeted too often and USC defenders were ready to pounce on those routes. The downfield passing game seems to have sacrificed other parts of the offense, and made Cal a team that was susceptible to turnover after turnover on Thursday night.
It hurts even more so because Maynard proved he was resilient and could bounce back. After a first half to forget, his third quarter was quite good, as he led the Bears on two critical scoring drives that gave his team a chance to believe again. He didn't go into a shell or start throwing footballs all over the place. He tried to make the right play and often did. One quarter of great play can't cover up three quarters of bad decision-making though, and it ultimately sunk Cal's chances.
I wrote after Maynard's first stat that he would have his chances to really step up and do special things. He can make plays with his feet and his arm, and he's making them with greater frequency. You saw it on his scramble on 3rd and 20 when he nearly picked up the first down, or that zone-read touchdown that worked perfectly. Things are clicking here and there.
There was peril there too--Maynard just doesn't have the fundamentals of the game down, regardless of the big plays he can make, and that leads to frustrating erratic play on too many snaps. For a former QB like Tedford, it has to drive him crazy to see Maynard throw so often into double coverage, or target his first read early, or get his feet set, or not make a quick decision with the football when he can't find his primary target. These are unconscionable errors that'll cost you, regardless of the offense being run or the plays being called.
Tedford could budge with Maynard. He was visibly agitated with the turnovers. Even in his postgame comments, he talked about belief in Zach's ability to improve rather than firmly committing to him as his starter. This doesn't sound like a quarterback secure in his spot, even though Allan Bridgford probably shouldn't start thinking he's about to park in and get through it. Bridgford might not be ready to uncork a deep post route with great timing, but his ability to throw a catchable ball and solid technique sure do look attractive right now.
Tedford seems ready to ride with it a little longer. He knows if Maynard clicks and starts hitting everything with greater regularity, this offense could be really deadly, fundamentals be damned. We'll see, but I think the QB competition could still be worth monitoring. Bridgford knows that this could be a great moment of opportunity to prove his worth, and he'll start going as hard as he can to try and impress the coaches that he's ready to be the guy.
It's a treacherous road our head coach rides, because he has to know that of all the things the fans wanted to see this year, an inaccurate quarterback who throws game-changing picks was somewhere between "Tosh Lupoi faking an injury on the sideline" and "Oski actively pounding Jamesons in his eye on-camera".
Halfway through the season of rebuilding, Cal flashes great potential week-by-week in certain places. The defense is shaking off its September jitters and starting to look like it could breakthrough with some big performances this season. Stefan McClure and Steve Williams proved why they could potentially lock it up on the outside the next couple of years if they continue in their progression. Jones and Allen won the battle of all-conference receiving tandems with Robert Woods and Marqise Lee. And the season of Giorgio Tavecchio rolls on, even if it would be nice for his protection to allow him to kick a clean extra point every now and then.
But again, like so many times before with this team, we're left talking about what the Bears could be if their quarterback could do the things we need him to do. Same old story in Bear Territory.
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It was pretty clear that USC’s plan was to force Cal to prove themselves through the air. If my memory is right, the first play from scrimmage had 8 USC guys in the box: the D-line, all three LBs and one of the safeties, all within four yards of the OL, and none of them really playing wide. It was such an obvious lack of respect for Maynard’s ability, it was almost insulting.
I say almost because, well, they were right.
Being an Old Blue means never accepting success.
Maynard just doesn’t have the fundamentals of the game down, regardless of the big plays he can make, and that leads to frustrating erratic play on too many snaps.
In the second quarter, particularly, I kept wondering if Maynard’s upside could outweigh his shaky mechanics and poor decision-making. He locks on to receivers, struggles with accuracy, and tosses passes that have no business being thrown (another jump pass?). Sure, he can make big plays with his feet and buy time when the pocket breaks down, but is it worth it?
"Some people watch adult videos on their computer - I go to YouTube and watch Jahvid Best highlight clips. That’s what gets me going."- Jim Schwartz, Detroit Lions head coach
I really don’t think it is worth it, but part of what we’re seeing may be related to a promise Tedford made to the North Carolina bunch to get Keenan Allen on board. Just speculating. But I’m guessing JT promised that Zach would be given every opportunity to prove himself, and that we’ll only make a change if it’s incontrovertibly clear to everyone that change must come.
Maynard seems like a great kid and does have impressive athletic ability. He might be able to make the necessary corrections in his game, but if that doesn’t happen soon, we may be looking at another losing season and the need to start grooming next year’s starting QB.
by Monica's Dad on Oct 14, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
I very much doubt that. You give preferential treatment to a player, you lose the locker room.
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
"soon" has come and gone. unless we're talking about winning one of the
halves of next game….or a quarter.
ack-A
It would be fun to have Maynard with Tim Tebow-type packages. Just 25 fun plays or so with a few formations…just enough to be effective but not too much that it’s not run extremely well.
That would require, of course, someone to be the primary QB.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Doesn't Maynard give up 40 lbs to Tebow?
Tebow was a beast in college. Maynard may be too skinny to run those types of plays very often.
Middle-aged toothwrangler (HT: Kodiak)
by 1988goldenbear on Oct 14, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I'd kind of like to see Oski pounding Jamesons through his eye...
It’s not like he doesn’t have the excuse. I’ll buy the first fifth…
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
by VandyImport on Oct 14, 2011 10:02 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Here Here
Oski pounding anything would be preferable to the offense’s on field action last night. If it gets much worse, they will have to start passing out beer bongs before the games instead of those gold foam things.
by One Armed Explorer on Oct 14, 2011 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
MayBELL
Quiz: My initials are AGB, educated abroad, and I am credited with the invention of this in 1876.
I hate being one who criticizes from afar, and always want to support our players, but this is an obvious ’issue".
I'm Batman
another clue
what do I have in common with Zach Maynard?
by slaphancock on Oct 14, 2011 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
Left handed?
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When we win next weekend this’ll all be mostly forgotten.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
Until the next time we lose, when it’ll all be remembered again!
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
yes
beating an 0-3 utah team without their qb surely makes up for getting blown out repeatedly.
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It’d be a step in the right direction.
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All we can do is win the game in front of us. It seems like rock bottom right now. I hope that means there is nowhere to go but up!
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well
let’s just schedule 13 games against presbyterian and then we have no reason to complain
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You seem rather ornery this morning.
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To be fair, he was ornery yesterday too!
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
But now its “rather” ornery. That was just some basic ornery-ness!
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I just think it’s absurd that losing three straight, getting embarrassed on national tv two weeks in a row, losing yet another hopeless game to sc is somehow ok if we beat a shitty utah team next week.
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I agree. That does seem absurd.
However, beating Utah is a step in the right direction. It doesn’t make everything “somehow OK.” If we win the next 4 games and end up at 7-5 (with a potential bad bowl game victory), then that would be “somehow OK.”
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^^this would in fact be an improvement over last year, and would leave me very optimistic about next year.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions
we're going to win our next 4 games?
I’d love to see some odds here.
beating Utah is a “step in the right direction”, in that it’s not another loss. However, Utah is a shitty team right now, and beating them does not make us any more likely to solve our problems, namely beating decent to good teams or winning on the road.
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I have no idea what the odds are. All I know is that I believe Cal has a reasonable chance at beating the 4 of them. And that if we want to meet my expectation for this season, we pretty much have to.
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well
I’m willing to put up a lot of money that we do not win the next four, as I mentioned to Avi next week. Hoping I’m wrong and you’re right!
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Hoping I’m wrong and you’re right!
Happy to see we can finally agree on something!
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But they don't hear you CBK!
I am not so sure we even beat Utah next week.
Afterall, Wittingham is already 1-0 against a Tedford coached team.
Guys, SDBear is clearly telling us that he has 7.2 million in cash to buy out Tedford’s contract, and will do so at a moment’s notice.
Go for it SDBear! I salute you! Thank you for your donation and dedication to our athletic program! Signed sealed and delivered!
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I never said I would buy him out. Why are you so mad?
I have donated to Cal athletics, even in this tough time. Is it a lot? No but hey at least I gave something. I can continue to support Cal football, I am sorry I just don’t share the same belief and support in Tedford anymore.
I will try to fall in line after we beat Utah. I am sorry Spazzy.
Mad? I’m not mad! I’m happy that someone as strong willed and as rich as you come here and fill the board with negativity only after losses. That’s definitely when and if we need to hear it, because no one else has the balls to say it! Tedford should definitely be fired, instantly, no questions asked. I completely agree with you! And I’m glad that someone with deep pockets has the stones to stand up to all us idiot Tedfordistas and buy out his contract so we can finally get a good coach!
Thank you! Thank you once more!
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Spazzy, while I sympathize with your point, I think SDBear has been relatively measured in his criticisms, and even if he’s venting a bit and it’s not realistic to fire Tedford immediately, he’s not been overly caustic or deranged about it. Your sarcasm is getting a little over-the-top though.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you very much Atoms, I appreciate that
I think I have been respectful. I haven’t been ranting or raving or attacking people for supporting Tedford.
I did not say he should be fired after this season, I did not ask about his buyout.
I understand we are all frustrated with this loss but I don’t believe I have been out of line.
I’d hate to see you when you’re “disrespectful.”
I did not say he should be fired after this season, I did not ask about his buyout.
Then, really, you have absolutely nothing to add.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Now you are just projecting
Okay here:
The defense looked great last night.
The OL and WR, despite having a few rough spots here and there looked greatly improved from the last two seasons.
I think a lot of our younger players show a lot of promise and I am excited for them.
While our pass rush hasn’t been as good as last year in terms of sacks, it is applying pressure and the young OLB are getting close.
Despite having my doubts about Isi to start the season, he has really won me over and now I strongly support him as our starting RB. I really hope CJA or some other RB can step up to help carry the load with Isi.
See it isn’t all the sky is falling with me.
I’m not being sarcastic here when I say that this post was good in both quality and quantity and I look forward to reading more of them!
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Posting the verbal equivalent of “Tedford sucks” ad nauseum after every is deranged and caustic, in the context of it being a multimillion dollar proposition to get a new coach.
I’m pointing that out, and I’m not personally attacking anyone. What’s the problem here?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
*after every loss
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
I guess you could read it as “Tedford sucks Tedford sucks Tedford sucks”… Certainly he was being quite critical of Tedford and expressing a lot of pessimism about the future of Cal under Tedford.
Looking back over the postgame thread, I guess some of his comments seem like overreactions, such as
Kiffin can always count on a win
against Cal so long as Tedford is still our HC.
But then he also said,
It’s not, I agree Tedford gets and deserves the end of 2012 I have said that in the past.
I am not advocating for him to be fired after this season.
However, I just feel that we have had a decade of wait and see with Tedford. How much more do we need to wait and see with him….
…I hope he turns it around but his record and evidence doesn’t seem to support the hope that I have.
Anyway, we’re all a little frustrated with how the team has been playing lately and even some of the biggest Tedford supporters are feeling like our loyalty is wearing thin. So yeah he’s harping on it a little and venting some frustration, and so it’s fair of you to point that out. But then you following up on all of his posts with jibes about him being a millionaire donor don’t help either. A little more civility all around is all I’m asking for. Thanks.
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by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
Thank you. I am sorry for that first comment
it was out of frustration with the loss.
I have said this before and I will say it again. I respect Tedford and what he has done on the field, off the field, and in the classroom with Cal. He absolutely deserves next season.
However, I just feel that where a lot of Tedford loyalist are at today and what they are feeling now, I was at that point after last season, especially after the blowout losses to SC and stanfurd. Last night, it just kind of reached a boiling point and I am still coming down from the loss.
The thing that hurt about Spazzys post to me was all the rich stuff. I am not a rich man and I do not come from a wealthy family. I am still paying of my student loans that I took out to go to Cal. So all those shots about being rich were not cool.
I’m sorry if I hurt you SD, not my intention.
I’m putting the whole thing in context. NONE of us are rich. Not the school, not the program, and definitely not the AD. So the constant inferred calls for Tedford’s ouster at the tune of $7.2 million ring particularly hollow to my (and to any Cal fan’s) ears! Since it’s SO freaking unlikely to get rid of Tedford, to me it only highlights the total uselessness of the negaposts! Does that make sense?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions
Yeah, it is all good
we both want the same thing at the end of the day. For Cal football to be successful, beat stanfurd, and go to a bowl game.
Last word on this, I just took as it an attack on me
because I know I was not the only one questioning Tedford in this post. CBK is in here questioning Tedford and the current state of the Cal program, as are others but I was the only one you directed the buy out stuff to so it felt like a personal attack.
I come here during the week, I come here during wins
I was in the uniform post, I have been a lot of non game day losing post. I shouldn’t expect us to beat SC and I shouldn’t vent because it clearly bothers you.
Clearly you are mad at me. I am sorry for that.
Keep on attacking me if it makes you feel better.
I never said I was rich, I didn’t even ask about his buyout. Look through the threads and post. I never said he should be fired after this season, I never asked about his buyout. Why do you keep attacking me? Am I the only one here questioning Tedford?
There is a difference
between noticing major problems with the program and being naive about Tedford’s contract situation. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Nope, I am paying for the whole 7.2 million buyout CBK or else
my opinion doesn’t mean shit and I should STFU and keep it rollin and fall in line.
After all, if I were a true fan I would “man up” and buy out Tedford.
;)
There is no middle ground! Either enjoy the 21 point beatdowns or buy out Tedford
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Well, since we are “stuck” with Tedford and his (many-times-noted) instransigence unless someone can foot the 7.2 mil buyout bill what’s the use in pointing out his intransigence?
I don’t think anyone disagrees with you CBK, and no one is happy with the results, and a lot of people are decidedly mediocre to negative (myself included) on Tedford right now. But what’s the use in SDBear making sweeping program-generalization about every bad thing that happened in the game? Seriously…what’s the use?
Question goes for you too SD: What is the use?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Please show me what you are talking about and I wil try to answer
SDBear making sweeping program-generalization about every bad thing that happened in the game? Seriously…what’s the use?
Well, since we are "stuck" with Tedford and his (many-times-noted) instransigence unless someone can foot the 7.2 mil buyout bill what’s the use in pointing out his intransigence?
Since we are stuck with the current President/Governor/Mayor/etc. until his term runs out, what’s the use in pointing out what he does wrong?
Vote Pederson 2012
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions
if we're not allowed to discuss what we're seeing
then why are we on this blog?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Tedford’s contract will be extended by popular vote in 2012?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Rick Perry for Cal Coach?
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He would call a hail mary on every play!
how is that for going deep and taking shots down the field.
Tedford for State Comptroller!
Do you thinka Comptroller just trolls a lot?
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Are you saying I am trolling
I was trying to make a joke. I guess I am not very good.
I have no issue with how many deep passes we run or Tedford calls. He sees the field and scouts the defenses we play more than I do. If he sees we have a chance to exploit a team deep, he will. If not, well we will stick to the short/medium range throws.
No. I just thought of all the wacky positions in government and then Comptroller came to mind.
People seem to be looking too deep into my comments recently. I can’t win!
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Ya, I’m mostly just a Comptroller, really!
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No, of course there is no voting on football coaches. But pressure from the fan base can convince an AD to make a change, without a doubt.
So, Occupy Simpson Athletic High Performance Center, then?
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Well, let’s show those 1% bastards that we mean business! But let’s grab one of those cool Cal hard hats first!
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I certainly don't know if we'll beat Utah
but at least it’s a virtual certain loss like the last couple.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
No need to apologize. I do agree that jokes are a great way to try to release some of the tension. Normally, I do make a lot, but I guess i’m just a little down from the game last night. I appreciate the attempt here to cheer me up.
Here is a joke I attempted to do in the DBD that failed miserably, so we’ll see if I can pull it off here.
Knock knock
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No? OK. Criticism Accepted.
Rough morning for me.
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Its OK, it wasnt that good. ;)
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Awww poor Twist.
Now that it’s the second half of the day (see what I did there?)… Who’s there?
by FromCtoShining(Blue)C on Oct 14, 2011 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Washington State
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Ya, I’ve never heard of them either.
BOOM!
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Twist, you have won the second half!
by FromCtoShining(Blue)C on Oct 14, 2011 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions
I credit Coach Tedford. He taught me everything I know!
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Yes. Winning does make up for losing.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions
so true
beating a shitty colorado team in ot makes up for getting blown out by usc for the third year in a row.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
CBK…honest question…did you really think we would beat SC? If the answer is no, then I dunno what you’re so upset about. Quarterly results were in line with earnings expectations…
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
CBK…honest question…did you really think we would beat SC
Not at all, and that is the main problem with our program right now. There is no reason for us to expect to beat any decent team, nor win any road game against a top 80 program. As Twist put it last week, our only hope going into the oregon game was not to get blown out on national tv, and that’s what happened, two weeks in a row.
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Actually…the Bears had a good chance of beating USC but for Maynard’s poor play.
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Yeah, that’s the really disappointing thing. USC did not play well at all last night, and they still blew us out.
I respectfully disagree, as I think getting blown out would be down 3 TDs by the half, or getting torched by Woods like we did by Richardson at the Buffs game, which we won on two (?) decent throws on the run to Allen. Maynard have mechanics to work on but I think we are in the right path. Moral victories don’t count for much but just gotta keep the faith and hope for a good run to the Stadium opening. I’ve moved on to acceptance and not expect a bowl berth by now.
by goldenfleche on Oct 14, 2011 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
as I think getting blown out would be down 3 TDs by the half
we were down 20-0 at half.
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23-0, wasn’t it?
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I believe it was 20-0
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Yeah, that’s right.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions
Just made the cut!!!
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No, it’s right below CBKWit’s 21 point definition!
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Sounds like Coach Tedford and the Cal team did GREAT yesterday!
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I was pointing out
how absurd it is to claim that 21-0 is a blowout, but since it was only 20-0, that’s somehow not a blowout.
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I agree. Not a blowout.
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I decree
that my definition of a blowout at halftime shall henceforth be Cal’s deficit at half, plus one point!
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It’s a good thing Cal wasn’t down 43 points at half last year. 43 points, of course, being the statistical definition of a blowout!
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What can I say?
If there’s one word that could be used to describe Cal fans it is definitely “lucky!”
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We were down by 2 scores with tons of time left. Easily surmountable. This game would’ve been totally different without the TO’s, and TO’s are just about the last thing a coach has control over.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions
We were down by 2 scores with tons of time left.
You can say the same for our game against sc last year, or any of our blowout losses.
I think coaching does have something to do with our qb throwing three ints directly into coverage. And I think it’s absurd to say that 21-0 at half is a blowout, but 20-0 isn’t. That’s quite a magical 1 point.
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I didn’t say that. And I don’t think 21-0 at half is a blowout, either.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s fair enough. But given we were down 23-9 in the third, what if, by some inexplicable magic we got to 23-16. …Is the 20-0, 21-0 whatever at halftime still “blowout”?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions
fair enough
I didn’t see anything in the first half resembling a pulse, so I think kicking off with a 20-0 deficit is pretty blowoutey. But certainly you can take a different view.
My main point in highlighting that quote was this comedy:
my definition of a blowout at halftime shall henceforth be Cal’s deficit at half, plus one point!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
spaz is right
We got the ball back with 7 minutes left, down 14 points and having moved the ball as well as they had. By any objective measure, we were still in the game. If the game is still competitive in the middle of the 4th quarter, it’s a stretch to call it a blowout.
point taken
(and pun intended) to me getting blown out means you’re down by so much it’s insurmountable, and the prevailing sentiment here is that it was a winnable game, hence the usual frustration. When our defense showed up and we punt them deep down by 2 scores we were all hopeful. Painful loss yes, but blowout far from it.
by goldenfleche on Oct 14, 2011 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions
semantics
Call it a blowout if you want, but there’s a huge difference between being annihilated on both sides of the ball like we were in last year’s SC, Stan, and Ore St games and generally going toe to toe with the other team (and still being in the game late in the 4th quarter) but ultimately losing big because of a handful of mistakes. The second problem is far more correctable than the first.
You are aware that this is Cal football….?
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
painfully aware
this is cal football right now, and that’s the problem.
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I didn't expect us to beat SC because Tedford has proven that 03 was a fluke
and he can’t consistently beat them, even when SC is a really bad team.
However, I did believe that we could somehow keep it close this year but we can’t even do that anymore. It seems the more mediocre SC becomes, the more we will lose by.
A lot of Pac12 coaches have proved they can beat SC or at least keep it close over the last four years, sadly Tedford is not one of them.
You are rich and smart and astute! I can’t wait to hear the news that Mega Donor SDBear’s check for 7.2 million is in the mail, on the way to getting rid of our tumorous head coach!
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, someone is really mad, why so MAD Spazzy
I simply stating my opinion, just like you did. I am sorry you don’t agree and have to revert to sarcasm to try to attack me. Keep it rollin bro!
Was I wrong that other Pac12 coaches and teams have proven they can beat SC and keep it close.
Oh that is right, WSU hasn’t done that yet!
If I say I don’t like Tedford’s coaching style either, can I have some money? I really want a rich friend!
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Tedfords coaching style? If by coaching style you mean losing by 3 TD's
then yes I don’t like it. I am not criticizing the play calls, I am simply questioning Tedfords ability to coach QB’s at Cal, not his coaching style.
Why are you so stuck on this rich issue? Are you posting from Occupy Wall Street right now? If so, I am a 99% too.
I’m not CBK, but I’ll answer as well. I think we had a great chance at beating USC. USC is not very good this year. I didn’t think it was in the bag by any means, but I thought we could at least be competitive and possibly come away with a W. Having watched the game, USC it only made it that much more evident that USC was EMINENTLY beatable. We had no business losing that game. If we made only half of the many mistakes we made, we would’ve won. Any fundamentally sound team with our talent level would have won.
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by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes, but you’re not CBK. You guys think totally differently.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions
…and that’s why I didn’t just +1 his answer.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
USC was EMINENTLY beatable
$C has been eminently beatable for a while, and we haven’t come close to beating them. Expecting a different result is pretty naive, in my opinion.
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Exactly. So I don’t know what the big deal is. You (and I) thought we’d lose. And we lost…
GG. On to Utah.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions
well, I guess that depends on you look at it. We’re certainly not missing my expectations, as you noted. The problem is that our expectations are for a really mediocre program, and I would prefer not to have a really mediocre program.
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Likewise.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Why? There’s nothing magical about USC, and the fact that other teams in the conference have beaten them proves it. Every year each school fields a slightly different team with different players on both sides. Yeah, we’ve lost 8 years in a row now, but most of those years they were in fact better than us. The past few years they haven’t been and we’ve lost anyway, but it’s not because they have some secret voodoo hold on us. We just haven’t executed. We shouldn’t just expect them to beat us because they’re USC and that’s what they do. The context of them being not very good anymore and us having a lot of talent should matter as well. We are capable of beating them, and just because we haven’t doesn’t mean we shouldn’t.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
You don’t have to take the view that there’s some “magic” or “voodoo” about $c to understand that they have dominated us. I certainly don’t take that view. Perhaps the voodoo or magic is simply better coaching.
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Sure, but we haven’t had a million turnovers in our other games. If we’d simply played like we played against Washington or even Oregon we would’ve won this one. That’s why it doesn’t seem unreasonable to say that USC was beatable and we should have beaten them.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I think the point is that even when we “should” beat USC, we won’t.
Maybe it’s coaching. Maybe it’s that it is always a big game, and Cal chokes in big games. Or maybe it is just a self-fulfilling lack of confidence.
I tend towards the “magic” or “voodoo” explanations myself. It should open us up to the mysteries of life and the universe.
Douglas Adams once created a character, a lorry driver, on whom it rained his entire life (he lived in Britain). Whereever he went it rained. He heard about sunshine, and understood that weather patterns should have no interest in his geographical location, yet at what point, after how many years of constant rain, would you find it reasonable to say that something magical was happening?
We witnessed magic last night people! It exists! I’m going to hunt a dragon now!
Many years of constant rain are not the same as 8 discrete events, even though the 8 discrete events may feel like years of constant rain. I can flip a coin and get heads or tails 8 times in a row and it wouldn’t be some magical event.
Now, I’m not saying our losses to USC have been coin flips or anything, as they all had their own set of reasons why they happened, but I don’t think it’s all one connected thread with a single over-arching explanation. We’ve beaten them before, and we’ll beat them again. Hopefully it happens next year. I don’t think the past 8 years will have all that much to do with it either way, though.
I mean, we’ve been blown out by Oregon a couple of times now, but did that stop us from beating them in 2008, or coming oh-so-close in 2010 (I’m convinced we would have won with Riley)? No.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
This is a serious response to my call to believe in the magic of Cal defeatism. I accept the challenge.
We’ve beaten them before, and we’ll beat them again.
The first point is correct. We have beaten them before. The second point is speculation. There is no evidence to suggest that we will beat them again. Ever. This is not a flip of the coin, in which probability evens out to 50/50 over time. There is nothing to prevent us from losing the next 15 games against USC until conference realignment puts them in the NFL and Cal decides to discontinue football altogether.
You might say we will probably win, but in that case the gods of chance magically bestow us with a win based on sheer improbability alone.
Maybe what I mean by magic is the appearance of it, not the essence. When you see constant correlation in nature you can either attribute it to a cause or to coincidence. I think you’re saying coincidence. I choose cause, but I don’t think there is evidence either way that would debunk either claim. Are we doomed or just unlucky? And is it possible to be constitutionally unlucky (wouldn’t that undermine our conventional senses of luck?)?
My position (magic and voodoo) just happens to be looney, but it’s how I find a silver lining in the miracle of Cal’s misery.
The first point is correct. We have beaten them before. The second point is speculation. There is no evidence to suggest that we will beat them again. Ever.
C’mon man. UCLA beat us TWENTY FIVE YEARS IN A ROW in basketball, but even then, we did beat them again eventually. That was 52 straight games, not just 8 games. It must have felt like a cosmic certainty that we would never beat them again. But yet we broke the streak. Nothing lasts forever.
When you see constant correlation in nature you can either attribute it to a cause or to coincidence. I think you’re saying coincidence. I choose cause…
It’s not constant though. It’s 8 years. I’m not saying it’s entirely coincidence, but USC has been very, very good for most of that period. They’ll have some more down years coming up, so I don’t see why we wouldn’t have a chance to beat them again finally.
My position (magic and voodoo) just happens to be looney, but it’s how I find a silver lining in the miracle of Cal’s misery.
Well, at least you’re self-aware, I’ll give you that :)
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Nothing lasts forever.
So true. What I’m saying is that, however improbable, college football, these conference alignments, etc. are also not forever. It is pessimistic for me to say that we will never beat USC, but it is absolutely possible.
so I don’t see why we wouldn’t have a chance to beat them again finally.
I agree that we will have a chance to beat them, and that I will root for this with all my heart, and then, when we lose, I will return to the theory of cursedness until the next year.
maybe I should add that, I’m not advocating for everyone to agree with me. I just cannot, with honesty, say that I believe right now that we will ever beat USC again (until I die, or the program folds, martians invade and teach us a new sport, etc.).
That totally irrational certainty is what I’m calling a feeling of magic, and it is peculiar to athletic fandom and religion and human nature. It is a poetic feeling, and I’m trying my best to enjoy it in a Zen-like unity with forces I cannot understand, but which hate me.
voodoo my eye
Streaks come and go. In the 70s and 80s we lost to UCLA 18 times in a row. Since then we’ve beaten them more often than not. From 1977 to 2001 we always lost to Washington. We then beat them 5 times in a row. We lost to Stanford 7 times in a row from 1995 to 2001, then beat them 5 times in a row.
well, feel free to keep dissecting every loss
as I mentioned before, “Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.”
Next year it could be no passing game (good bet), shitty defense on the road (another good bet), special teams gaffes, no running game…it doesn’t really matter. We haven’t been within 10 points of these guys since 2007. Yes, we could have beaten a mediocre usc team at home – we were only 5 turnovers and 21 points away. So close!
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We were really only about 2 or 3 turnovers away, tbh.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions
lol
well, have fun building up your hopes for next year. Hope it works out for you.
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We could have gotten away with a couple of turnovers and still won, is all I’m saying. But not 5, certainly.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions
hey, if we had kept them to only 10 points, we would have been right there!
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Well, yeah… and if we didn’t just hand them the ball at the 30 yard line so many times, we had a damn good chance to hold them to only 10 points.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Cal football: where cheer up, that 21 point loss was way better than it seems if you take away the main factors that lead to said loss.
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Ask CBKWit
Will San Jose’s defense be legit, or are we pretending that we’ve made real changes and Marlo and Thornton will be invisible in the May.
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I like the Sharks a lot this year
I said that at the beginning of the playoffs last year, and was quite wrong, but I like them more now. More balanced to my eyes
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Have we been giving up 5 turnovers a game deep in our own territory all season long and I just didn’t notice, or is this a bit of an aberration?
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions
It wasnte ven the turn overs.
It was the field position. I felt like Cal started a lot of their drives deep in their territory.
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It's really just about the crumbling of the program as a whole
Not something specific to playing against USC.
eh
I think it’s pretty fair to say that $c has our number at this point.
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With totally different coaches and players?
When it was Carroll’s teams it made some sense. The last couple of years it’s just because we suck.
I don’t think that determination is supportable (especially since it’s a different coaching staff now), but obviously I’m not going to get anywhere with you on this. Conversation over.
It is and it isn't a different staff
It is a different staff for the most part but Kiffin was at SC during the PC years so you have to figure that Kiffin is familiar with Tedford from those days. Did Kiffin keep much of the old PC staff? I think he kept the RB coach but I believe he was let go after the Bush incident.
I might be wrong,
But I don’t think there is a single coach from the 2009 USC team on the 2011 staff.
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But I am the bad guy for saying this. Just a joke Spazzy!
No but that is some real dark and negative thoughts that I have ever read.
You were not saying anythign like this…
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions
5 turnovers and only being down by 14 in the 3rd quarter IS pretty amazing.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
No it isn’t. Lots of teams gain more yards than their opp. and still lose. SC feasted on short fields yesterday.
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s pretty amazing to outgain an opponent and lose by 28. The margin is the key. Certainly, you can outgain an opponent and lose, but usually not by that ridiculous a margin.
It’s like hockey, the pens outshot the caps last night 41-19 and lost 3-2. That kind of thing happens. If they outshot them 41-19 and lost 6-1, that would be pretty amazing.
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We are special like that!
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
SC has not been eminently beatable for a while – not to us anyway. This was the worst USC team we’ve played in a long time. Barkley wasn’t very sharp, they really weren’t scoring in bunches – we had a good shot at a win, if we learn to hang on to the damn ball.
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I highly doubt this will be forgotten
If it was a loss to an SEC team sure…
And it could have been far worse – Lee got injured early, and Woods and the other guy were wide open on at least two homerun shots that Barfly overthrew. Maynard can definitely scramble – and I would almost say he’s better out of the pocket, but I’d rather eat chalk than agree with Wilner.
And what was exactly the cause of the flag that had us kicking off from our own 20? I hate that rule…
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I could be wrong but I thought the ref signaled a “personal foul” on that play, not an “unsportsmanlike”…
Yeah, it was a personal foul.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
That was the kind of play I expected against UDub from the 2…
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
yup
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure Tedford knows this already
but what is up with Maynard’s deathlock on one receiver…usually his half-brother.
Cal might else well just run a one-receiver set since Maynard doesn’t go through his progressions anyways. How does a QB leave HS staring at his receiver(s) the entire time?
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#80, Tight End MILLER
So, 2 years ago this guy seemed to me to be an NFL stud in the making.
Has Maynard thrown the ball his direction?
Basically no
10 catches for 94 yards…0 last night
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Why?
Don’t you want to mix it up on the defense? Isn’t that a theme of this post?
Let’s get the TE involved, eh?
There are many reasons
1) In ’09 Miller was coached by Alamar who for all of his faults was a great TE coach. The last two years he has been coached by Genyk who has previously never coached TEs.
2) Miller has issues getting open (see #1)
3) Maynard locks onto his first read and if hell freezes over and he goes to his next read then that usually is Jones not Miller
In other words, Go Bears!
- is the overriding reason…
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Actually
I agreed…my post said that No. 3 is the overriding reason…autocorrect?
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Yeah, you can’t start your post with the # sign.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions
Can’t we split the TE’s between Michalczik and Kiesau? Why are they grouped with ST??
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions
I believe the answer is you only get so many asst coaches, and there aren’t enough to have TE’s by themselves. I think it’s a dumb rule, but whatevs.
It then becomes how each program wants to divide up the X amt of coaches they have. Some have interior/exterior OL coaches (Stanfurd), with the TE’s being included with the exterior OL. Of course, as soon as you get poor play the obvi “is the 2 coach expt working out?” gets asked. Other teams, like Texas, has DT coach and a DE/OLB coach and a ILB coach.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Right
…but can’t they do blocking drills with Michalczik and receiving drills with Kiesau? I’m aware that probably increases everyone’s workload, but it would also allow Genyk to focus more on ST play.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Last night, there was a 3rd and 7 and he threw it towards Miller abvout 2 yards down the field. He did not throw it near Miller.
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Also what is up with the overthrows?
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The throws.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
As NorCalNick stated to me yesterday, Maynard appears to throw more accurately down the field than towards the sidelines. Unclear why. The throw to miller was to the sidelines
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True. His throws straight downfield to #21 and #1 often look great. Well, those receivers simply look great, let’s say that, too! But some of the throws last night across the field had Pick 6 written all over them. The ball was completed at least twice and I was in my seat, peeing for fear of what could have been. One completion was in double coverage – thrown all the way sideways for a 5 yard gain. Very scary
.
Yes, which is why I’m in favor of just not calling the sideline passes. Seriously, just rip those pages out of the playbook. Attack the edge in some other way, like moving the pocket or rolling out or something. Anything to turn it into a throw that Maynard can actually make.
You can’t take away the sideline passes. Do that and everyone starts loading up down the middle to unload on Allen and Jones. You have to stretch the field.
I do agree that rollouts do seem like the preferred option to make Maynard more effective. But he needs to work on his timing with those routes because he will always be throwing into a numerical disadvantage and a smaller part of the field.
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
Starting receivers next season
Who’s going to be starting alongside Allen? Will Clay work out his academics? Allen-Treggs-Clay could be a pretty good looking receiving corps.
In terms of the QB position, I think you gotta let Bridgford have his shot. I think we can be good next season, but our next chance to be elite is in two years, when Bridgford would be a RS Sr. and Maynard would already be gone.
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Pretty sure Boehm gets into the mix next year
Really like Boehm from what I’ve seen of him. Solid technique and can play from under center, something we haven’t seen from anyone lately.
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions
I remember I once read good reports about Mansion as well
Who the hell really knows since Tedford closes practices. God forbid the word gets out that our QB’s are wildly inaccurate and show little improvement.
Bridgford
I don’t understand why Bridgford didn’t get into the game after Maynard threw his 3rd INT. I mean, Tedford pulls RB’s who fumble twice. The game was out of reach. Why not have Maynard sit and let Bridge get some reps???
That said, Maynard did come back and rack up some yardage in Cal’s final turn with the ball. So, that must have left him psychologically better off than giving up.
That is is the frustrating part
I can see Tedford thinking: “Oh, I need to let Maynard work out his issues since he is relatively inexperienced against upper tier teams.” But it remains to be seen if he will ever work said issues out…
*Insert something witty here*. Oh, and Stanfurd Sucks.
Tedford is pretty loyal to his QBs…look at Riley and Longshore.
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FALSE
DID YOU GUYS FORGET 2008!!??!
Jeez Tedford constantly kept switching Riley and Longshore and led a lot of fans to believe he was not loyal enough to his QBs.
In other words, Go Bears!
Wasn’t Longshore coming off an injury in 2008…
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but psychologically damaged.
he always threw off his back foot after that injury, and was never the same.
This
Longshore had some much potential…Jeff George-esque in his arm strength and mobility but with much less attitude
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Rumor is that Tedford screwed up by continuing to play Longshore in ‘07 when he was still injured. Should have just shut him down and let him heal up. He stayed, didn’t play well and it messed up his mental game. Then with the ridiculous back-and-forth in ’08, he had no chance.
Gotta say Tedford dropped the ball on that one, Longshore was pretty damn good pre-injury.
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Also, it seems to me that Tedford has been vindicated in those QB decisions. That would mean that Maynard might be the best we have right now. Which seems odd to me.
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I’ve had this discussion at length with Hydro and others, and if I’m remembering correctly…it’s the thought that it’s the QB1’s team until it absolutely isn’t. I argued the starting pitcher/bullpen angle (guy “doesn’t have it” so pull ‘em), but Hydro argued it’s your starter all the way until he’s hurt or it’s a real blowout.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
After a good night's sleep
(and a hangover). I’m actually not that down on Tedford anymore. I’m in more of a look and see camp
In other words, Go Bears!
Look and see?
That’s kind of funny to me, because we’ve been able to look and see for 10 years now.
Look and see is for a new guy. By this time, we know what we have.
I’m sticking with him!
But a decade is too short a leash and not enough time, he needs more time!
Tedford is averaging one win a decade against SC so he should be able to beat them again sometime this next decade.
I’m not saying we need a decade long leash. Just until end of 2012. Why is that so hard to understand?
In other words, Go Bears!
It's not, I agree Tedford gets and deserves the end of 2012 I have said that in the past
I am not advocating for him to be fired after this season.
However, I just feel that we have had a decade of wait and see with Tedford. How much more do we need to wait and see with him.
In this last decade, especially the last five years we have learned Tedford struggles to beat SC, win in LA, beat Mike Riley, win on the road, and lately develop QB’s that are capable of winning in the Pac10/12.
I hope he turns it around but his record and evidence doesn’t seem to support the hope that I have.
What?
There is some doubt about Tedford? For what all he has done for the program and the university, I’d give him a life-long contract.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
That is what I meant but executed with Ayoob type precision
If there are three groups of people: Tedford haters, Tedford so-so’s, and Tedford diehards, I believe all the Tedford diehards have become Tedford so-so’s.
I support the NBA player's union.
I think Haters is a bit harsh. I do not hate Tedford, I respect him and am grateful for what he has done at Cal
I just believe the Pac12 is a lot better and has better coaches today than it did a decade ago and Tedford can’t compete on a consistent basis.
WHAT IS THIS REASONABLENESS!!!!
YOU EITHER HATE OR LOVE HIM!!!! THERE IS NO MIDDLE GROUND
I support the NBA player's union.
that's the thing though
SD and I both catch a lot of flack for taking what I think is reasonable middle ground. If you criticize Tedford at all, or if you think that the coaches bear some responsibility for the team’s execution, to some people you become a “Tedford hater”.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
This is what bothers me. I am not coming in with hate post
I present what Tedfords record is against the current HC’s of the Pac12, especially those coaches that we will have to play against every season yet I am dismissed for this.
I am not even for calling for Tedford to get Stooped or even fired at the end of the season. I recognize he should be given 2012.
For what it’s worth…I think you have a more moderate stance than CBKWit.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
lol!
Number one fan of Justin Bieber being the number one fan of the Dodgers, and not the [2010 World Series Champion] Giants.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Oct 14, 2011 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Time running out for Maynard
We are 1/4 the way done with the Zach Maynard experiment.
Here are mental mistakes that really cost us, off the top of my mind.
1) Not looking shotgun snap into hand – instead, thinking about where to pass to. That’s a sign of being mentally harried.
2) INT into triple coverage in the endzone before 1st half ends.
3) 2 more INTs later in game, not the result of tipped balls or great defensive plays – just right into USC chests.
4) Locking into receivers, brother, as discussed above. Not going thru his checks as the play develops.
Look – I couldn’t do any better, not by a long shot. I’m not trying to bash.
On the positive side, he has delivered many good looking balls to Maynard and Jones and his passing yardage stats are pretty good, I think. Maynard can also avoid the rush well enough and no play was as exciting as the spinning scramble rollout, spin off a sank and throw for a 1st down play.
We could definitely do a lot worse (Ayoob and Vetter come to mind – sorry guys).
But I’m just saying that Maynard only has about 18 more Cal games to go before his time is done. Can we expect these things to be resolved? Or are we just in FILLER mode until the next great one arrives. Certainly, Riley was doing okay (despite some repeated madness overthrows) before being injured last year, but we all knew it had denigrated to filler mode.
Who’s the next savior for Cal football that we are all waiting for at this point? Kline is getting most of the current hype. I’m going to instead say it belongs to a group of KICK ASS LINEMEN. PLEASE – WHERE ARE THEY?!?!?! O-Line Recruits. Come to us.
I give Maynard
Utah and UCLA to start seeing improvement. If he doesn’t it is time to start thinking about Bridgford.
I support the NBA player's union.
Good point
I will restate that I predicted Cal would lose the first 3 Pac12 games (in the pre-season poll) but then would win the rest. So, expect a Cal Roll here! Maynard will be happy with that!!
If we make the switch today, which would be as aggressive as fake punt running with Anger on 4th and 7, we could build B-$$$ confidence over the next 4 and then beat furd asu and go to San Diego for Dec 27th or so.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
PUMP PUMP PUMP
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
You might not want to hear this from the opposition
But while Maynard did have a bad night at the office, it’s not like there was much of a running game going on either – 35 yards, to be precise. Being able to control the ball longer would have 1) relieved Maynard of the opportunity to throw it so often, and 2) left SC’s defense completely gassed by the fourth quarter. (To the extent that you can extrapolate from prior games).
The reason I could spot this problem is because SC has something very similar – next to no running game at all.
I know Maynard turned the ball over 4 times – but he also racked up more yards than Barkley. I understand that it’s hard to chase a game by running, but after the first 2 turnovers, Cal would really have benefited from more evenly distributed playcalling.
I guess my point is: Maynard may not be ready for prime time – but he didn’t put himself on the field. And he wasn’t calling the plays. Is it really just being one QB away from prime time?
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I’m pretty sure USC stuffed the box to dare Maynard to throw. Eight in the box was a staple of first down plays.
by Avinash Kunnath on Oct 14, 2011 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions
I’m looking forward to the analysis, because it seems like if they were stacking the box, there shouldn’t also be triple coverage on Allen. Maybe the linebackers were good at disguising their coverage?
by slaphancock on Oct 14, 2011 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions
Good points
Maynard is kind of a scapegoat for 3 INTs and 1 fumble this morning. It’s fair – bad plays for sure. But you make a good point about the running game. 35 yards? Really? Damn!
I will quibble with you on something – the USC running game looked pretty good to me! The O-line got some push and the RB was often falling forward 2 yards. I thought that’s where USC made their mark in winning the game – at the line. We had little pass rush, as well. So, that’s more O-line work. I read that USC brought Farmer into the RB position, blowing his redshirt year, b/c they wanted the homerun hitter. But that’s another issue than “having next to no running game at all”. I’d be happy with your running game!
McNeal looks to be bounds better than Tyler, and I have no idea what Kiffin is doing with Farmer.
I support the NBA player's union.
Well, until Lee got injured, we were okay on the WR front for this year – and Farmer is ridiculously fast. I guess the plan is to use him to run plays out to the sideline and see if he can outdistance anyone.
Apparently the kid has been working his ass off and wanted to play – I don’t think this was an awful decision, given that the scholarship reductions kick in for next season and experience players will be at a premium.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Scholarship reductions?
So, can you explain to me how this is supposed to work? I thought USC would already be short handed, but Kiffen signed a large class and I’m thinking the NCAA penalty is going to turn out to be some joke that he maneuvers past.
So, what’s the deal???
The restrictions didn’t kick in until the appeal was rejected – which was after the class for 2011 was signed. So between spring enrollments on prior year slots and the 2011 allocation, SC was able to “stock up” to prepare for only being able to enroll 15 players each season for the 2012 – 2014 seasons. It’s well within the NCAA regs.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Does this mean he can add only 15 new players?
That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not understanding something.
What I’d like to see, if possible, is what a NORMAL recruiting situation looks like (scholarship #‘s), what was taken away, and what USC is doing (year by year #’s) in response.
Does this mean he can add only 15 new players?
That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m not understanding something.
Yes. And that’s pretty much all there is to it.
Teams without sanctions:
Can sign 25 players to each recruiting class
Have an 85 scholarship limit
USC for next three seasons:
Can sign 15 players to each recruiting class
Have a 75 scholarship limit
"Ain't no tuition for having no ambition." -Brandon Carswell
Yesterday was the first time that the running game looked at all coherent. The offensive line has been having a really hard time getting consistent openings for Tyler. Maybe McNeal is just better suited to working with what the offensive line can do.
Believe me, I was stunned when I saw McNeal getting yards.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
very well said
I guess my point is: Maynard may not be ready for prime time – but he didn’t put himself on the field. And he wasn’t calling the plays. Is it really just being one QB away from prime time?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
learning from example
I’ve been trying hard not to harsh too much on the players at SC. I get frustrated when Galippo is plainly out of position a lot, but I can’t bring myself to be too rude about the secondary because they’re young and they’re being placed in a scheme by coaches.
And it’s not like it’s much more pleasant to be rude about coaches, but they get paid to steer these players in the right direction, which at least means you can question their results with some vigor.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
but they get paid to steer these players in the right direction, which at least means you can question their results with some vigor.
very much agree. I think it is difficult, on a player by player basis, to determine if the player should be at fault or the coach. It seems virtually impossible to me to separate a player’s intrinsic ability from the coaching he receives and determine who deserves credit/who is at fault – the coaches or the individual player.
That’s why I look at broader trends, because that’s where I think you can judge a coach’s effectiveness. For instance – Tedford took over a team that was 1-10 and turned it around to 7-6 – I think he clearly deserves a huge amount of credit for that. Likewise, we’ve had a run of seemingly talented quarterbacks that can’t hit the broad side of a barn or a three yard hitch – I find it difficult to blame each individual qb instead of looking at the coach.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I can
considering Tedford’s track record with QBs…
How does you know that the QBs are “talented” to begin with. Longshore was certain very good but injured. Riley always had mental concentration issues. Maynard is more of an athlete than a QB. There is a reason why he went to Univ. of Buffalo.
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San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
well
Tedford and his staff recruit the players and train them on technique and create an offensive and design the plays and then call said plays…so I guess the question is, how can you not assign responsibility, over the long haul, to the coaches?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Of course you can but Cal is not USC, Texas, Alabama or LSU. The biggest hurdle that Cal always faces is depth. The top tier teams have 5 star recruits up and down their depth charts. Cal has to get it right with one or two recruits per position.
I am amazed that Tedford has been able pull in the recruits year in and year out. Finding a QB is a crapshot…both for college and the NFL.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
You are correct that depth is a huge issue for most CFB teams with the exception
of a few teams, notably the ones you just mentioned.
However, SC is closer to Cal depth wise now. Depth is one of the reasons why SC has fallen back to Earth and why I was hoping for a Cal win last night.
Sanctions, especially scholarship reductions haven’t hit SC yet but they did lose a lot of depth when the seniors and juniors decided to transfer without having to sit out once the sanctions hit. At the minimum those players that transfered would have provided quality depth for SC.
Last night’s game was a lot closer than the score…take away the two ints by Maynard, that’s a 3-5 point game.
Heck, the Bears basically shut the Trojans offense down in second half and the opening drive of the 4th quarter looked promising until Maynard started overthrowing people again.
Don’t forget, it’s a rebuilding year for Cal as well…last year was the low point…I still expect Cal to be somewhere at .500 in league play. Will beat Utah, UCLA, Wash St. and Oregon State…probably lose to Stanford and ASU though
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
No doubt that it would have been closer if you take away those ints
but you can say the same thing for every team on every Saturday.
You can also say that SC basically shut Cal down except for those three long drives.
Also, don’t forget that it is a rebuilding year for SC as well, that is why this game is so tough. This isn’t SC of 2004 or 2006, don’t let the letters SC fool you, this is not the same Trojan team that Cal fans have seen over the last decade. You put those SC players in UW uniforms and you would not know the difference.
That SC team is basically two players on offense and a bunch of no name kids on defense.
Team recruiting rankings
2008:
USC: No. 9
Cal: No. 32
2009:
USC: No. 9
Cal: No. 34
2010:
USC: No. 5
Cal: No. 27
2011:
USC: No. 4
Cal: No. 15
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
BTW:
Cal team recruiting rankings:
2002: No. 62 (worst in Pac-10)
2003: No. 24
2004: No. 29
2005: No. 9
2006: No. 29
2007: No. 12
There is a reason why Cal has struggled in the last two years…they are playing players recruited in 2008 and 2009…
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
and I would guess that you blame the tree-sitters for the poor recruiting
although I do point out that Cal’s recruiting hasn’t been worse than many teams they lose to, that’s an ok point. So Tedford has to put up results with the strong recruiting classes he’s pulled in lately, and if not, he should be let go, yes?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I don’t blame the tree-sitters for anything other than annoying. Recruiting is cyclical.
Let go…absolutely not. This is Cal football…Cal…we were the laughing stock of Pac-10 football most of the 1960s-2000s.
The fact that Tedford is pulling in such high level classes to begin with is impressive enough. I mean looking at how many Cal players are playing in the NFL now compared to pre-Tedford days.
Obviously, at some point Tedford may lose it both recruiting wise and on the field but to assume that another coach would come here and keep Cal at this level of play is a pipe dream. At the very least, you need to give him a few years to recruit with the new stadium and facilities.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
frankly
I don’t really give a shit about who Tedford is recruiting if we’re getting blown out on national tv with regularity. Recruiting only matters when it corresponds to results on the field. He can bring in top 10 classes for the next 10 years but if we’re still this mediocre, they’re pretty meaningless, no?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Wow
classic what have you done for me lately…
Go check out the history of Cal football…Tedford’s mediocrity would constitute some of Cal’s best years. Between 1960 and 2002, Cal went to 5 bowls. Between 2002-2010, Cal has gone to 7.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Yes but CFB today is very different than the past
they have something like 34 bowls now! There is a reason why NYD bowls mean something or at least they used to, CFB didnt have that many bowl games.
Furthermore teams used to play a lot fewer games and OOC games didn’t really exist, let alone the cupcake sheduling to help teams reach bowl eligibility.
In todays CFB world making a bowl game is not that hard anymore. That is why it is almost an even bigger deal if your team doesn’t make a bowl game.
Just taking qualifications to make it into a bowl.
Cal finished above .500 12 times between 1960 and 2001.
Cal has finished above .500 all but one time (8X) since 2002.
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Every team on every Saturday doesn’t turn the ball over deep in their own end of the field 5 times. Cal almost never does that. So if Cal had limited the mistakes to a normal number rather than the egregious number we saw, it would indeed have been a close game.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions
well
a number of us said, after the fsu game, that some of the balls maynard was throwing would be interceptions against better teams. Looks like that unfortunately came true. It’s not like those turnovers were without cause.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Maybe that’s true. I’m already moved to the fence about Maynard, so if the trend continues, I’d totally be in favor of replacing him. My impression was that in previous games Maynard was missing SO badly that there was no chance for an interception.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
(that is to say, I didn’t see a whole lot of near-picks or should-have-been-picks, like when Bridgford threw into double- and triple-coverage against Oregon)
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m enough of a homer to say that your description of the team is a load of arse. It may not be a 2005 vintage team but there’s plenty of talent there – what’s frustrating is seeing how painstaking the process of improvement is.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I agree it’s not just “two players” on offense. I think the comparison to UW is probably not that far off, though.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 15, 2011 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions
Cal is not UW, nor are they ASU
but UW and ASU somehow found serviceable qbs and have beaten $C recently
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
ASU is the no. 18 ranked team in the nation so there are a lot of reasons why they beat USC than just the QB
UW also had this guy named Lockyer last year…I don’t know if you know him
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Lockyer?
The CA treasurer? Oh, Locker, the QB. I was actually talking about Prince, but hey, Locker too. And Osweilerereler is certainly better than anything we’ve had lately. The point is you don’t have to be Texas or Alabama or USC to get decent qb play.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
No
but who was ASU’s QB two years ago?
Cal’s QB in the Tedford Era
MacArthur
Rodgers
Ayoob
Longshore
Riley
Maynard
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
MacArthur?
Ayoob, Riley, and Maynard have been mediocre to bad. Longshore, let’s not get into that. Rodgers, that guy was pretty good.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Forgot about
Boller
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2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Sorry
I meant Robertson..
The two high recruits that Tedford got:
Boller and Rodgers both played well in college
Ayoob was also highly touted and played okay
Longshore was quite good until he got injured
Riley was always inconsistent…frustrating so because he showed signs of be very very good
Maynard is a bridge/plug-in QB.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
...
Prince? The artist formerly known as this? The UCLA QB? Oh, you mean Price, the Washington QB.
Sorry, I couldn’t resist. :)
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
One of the main reasons SC lost to ASU
Four turnovers.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
They also didn't find a servicable QB for years while we had Rodgers and good Longshore
Teams go up and down. Especially at a position like QB, sometimes teams just get unlucky with players. Consider how inaccurate the art of drafting players into the pros is and now imagine doing that with high school players that are even tougher to rate.
I also think it’s silly to judge a coach by choosing records against certain teams. Shit happens. I’m not as pro-Tedford as I used to be, but struggles against USC isn’t really that damning.
by jali on Oct 15, 2011 1:57 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
it’s not like there was much of a running game going on either – 35 yards, to be precise
We lost 19 yards on a sack (Maynard’s lost fumble) and 13 yards on a botched reverse (Calvin’s fumble). So, that’s minus-32 yards right there. So on “real” running plays, we rushed for 67 yards. SIXTY-SEVEN! So we did haz running game! So take THAT, DC!
Keeping January 2 open. You know, just in case.
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Isi had a few nice runs throughout the game
the running game wasn’t as good as the last few weeks but it wasn’t Arizona levels bad and it made a few plays when we needed them.
I was not precise
Equally, the fact that two plays could result in nearly half the rushing yards being taken off the board isn’t a great sign either. At least it wasn’t from penalties – that’s SC’s party trick.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Just playing around. I agree that our running game (or lack thereof) didn’t help matters for our side.
Keeping January 2 open. You know, just in case.
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But the point was that USC geared up for the run and put the game on Maynard’s shoulders.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
Well okay – so why not have Maynard break left and pitch the ball to a running back and have the RB head out around the perimeter? If the d-line was applying pressure and Allen was double covered, that’s a whole lot of space to run into, and I don’t think that pitching the ball would be too much to ask of Maynard.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Obviously, I’m not Tedford but some of the strategies had to be changed because of 20-0 halftime lead.
The Golden Bear is ever watching
2011 Giants Adoptee: Orlando Cabrera (because everyone needs to be loved)
San Francisco Giants Won the 2010 World Series: Not a Typo
I think he went away from the run too quickly. 3 scores with half a game to go does not mean you have to go away from the run just yet.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Especially when your QB is handing out picks like party favors.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Disagree, Avi
I for one would totally understand if Oski were pounding Jameson through his eyehole.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 11:20 AM PDT reply actions
2005 season logic:
Maynard will eek out 2-3 more wins but in poor fashion for the rest of the season, and causing Cal fans to get anxious and frustrated with his performance. Tedford will put Bridgeford in to start in the Big Game, which will bring the Axe back to Berkeley. So high on the defeat of the Cardinal, Cal will lose to ASU, but will possibly win its bowl game, knowing it has what it truly wanted: to beat Stanford
go Bears
"Our hearts shall sing and our voices ring for the dear old Blue and Gold!"
Coach John Robinson
I saw him after the game standing around with all the (seemingly) USC backers and parents. This was on the street where the buses exited near Lefty’s bridge.
I walked up and said, “Now here’s somebody who will know the answer to this question: WHAT DOES CAL NEED TO DO DIFFERENTLY???!!!”
He said clearly, “Score. More. Points.”
I laughed and told him he needed to be more specific.
He laughed and said, “I don’t know. It’s not my problem. It’s not my problem.”
He looked no older than when he was roaming the sideline. AND, he was wearing blue!
He was the head coach for the LA Rams . . . blue and gold suited him better than those ugly $C colors. Haha.
www.LosAngelesRams.org
CALIFORNIA ANGELS . . . ANAHEIM DUCKS . . . CALIFORNIA GOLDEN BEARS
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"I don’t know. It’s not my problem. It’s not my problem."
He must have done a helluva job as an analyst for the national radio broadcast last night.
Keeping January 2 open. You know, just in case.
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This game frustrated me more than last years SC game
Last year the roof just fell in on the team, and SC played a perfect first half. This year I don’t even think SC played all the well and they still won by 3 touchdowns.
Tedford brought us back from the dead I’ll always respect him for that, but something is not right with this program and the product on the field.
This whole QB issue is really a no win situation for me. I may be in the minority, but I desperately want to see what Bridgeford can actually do. But I know the only way I’m going to see that is if Maynard completely folds (which probably means a couple losses to either Utah, UCLA and or WSU – something I desperately don’t want). But my very worse fear is that Maynard is competent enough to win 3-4 more games this season, and then everyone breathes a sigh of relief. Then next year, Maynard breezes through any actual QB competition during fall camp and then we are left with the same mess again next year.
In my opinion, next year is really going to be deciding season in Tedford’s tenure here at Cal (obviously). We are going to have the talent on both sides of the ball, all we need is a QB. This year, for all extensive purposes, truly is a rebuilding year. So I’ll be happy if I see progress and improvement during the course of this year, so I can have hope that such improvement will pay dividends in 2012. However, Maynard has regressed. And has not shown me he can be the guy who can lead us to a major bowl in 2012. So really, any playing time he gets this year is taking away snaps from another QB who could be that guy come 2012.
What I think is more than reasonable is for Bridgeford to get at least a couple of series for the next few games. Just so we can see what he can do in a meaningful situation. If he sucks, then we know he may not be the guy. And hell, its not like he really could be any worse.
I’m not opposed to giving Bridgeford a series in the 2nd quarter and seeing what transpires. For Maynard – its a chance to watch the game from the sidelines – with Tedford (or his QB coach) in his ear explaining what is going on game time. If Bridgeford marches us for a TD and looks good, maybe he gets another series. If not, then we lose one series and Maynard goes back in.
Maynard's had his chance. Time to invest in Bridgford.
No disrespect to Zach but as a JR transfer and halfway through the season (with only 1.5 years of eligibility remaining) how much sense does it make to invest in someone with, what appears to be, limited upside? If he doesn’t have his fundamentals now, then when?
At least with Bridgford, a RS Soph, he has his fundamentals down and has room to grow with his decision-making.
Given the plethora of QBs we have, it doesn’t make any sense to keep Maynard as starter. Put him as 2nd and let him earn it back.
I just want to win
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by 4Ever Golden on Oct 14, 2011 12:47 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I agree 100%
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I agree 95%. The other 5% is I think girls just wanna have fun.
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It's not your fault.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I cannot believe people are calling for Tedford's
He is 72-42 in 10 year (about 7-4)…at CAL!!!
No other coach at CAL since Pappy has a record above 35-30 (Mike White)…
Tedford took a team that finished 1-10…and took them to 7 bowls in 9 years (including two Holiday bowls) and a Pac-10 title (shared).
It was a tough year last year and a tough 3 game stretch but Cal football has never been better recruiting and/or reputation wise. Tedford is doing this while promoting academics.
Not to mention the Stadium!!!
At some point, you have to put the blame on the players…especially the QBs.
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I think both the players and coaches share the blame
just like a teacher is also somewhat responsible for a students grades and test scores. So to is a coach somewhat responsible for his players actions on the field.
At some point, you have to put the blame on the players…especially the QBs
I would be willing to put most of the blame on the QB if this were the first year that we have experienced inconsistent play from the QB.
They are college kids…
Longshore was going to be good but injuries
Riley just never put it together mentally
Maynard is not a top level QB.
Look at all the QBs Tedford coached up…remember that the knock against Rodgers was that he played for Tedford.
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Blame is not the right word
responsibility? The point is that being college kids, inconsistency is to be expected. Not everyone can get Barkley/Sanchez/Luck level QBs.
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So going back to your original post you stated:
At some point, you have to put the blame on the players…especially the QBs.
Then you seem to soften on that with this:
They are college kids…
Longshore was going to be good but injuries
Riley just never put it together mentally
Maynard is not a top level QB.
I am trying to understand who you hold more responsible for this? The coaches? The players? Both?
Personally I would say both are responsible for the incosistent play. Although I would put the blame at 60% coaching and 40% players, especially since Cal is currently going through a rough patch at the QB position.
I agree with this. What I meant is that the coach can only do so much especially in college. At some point, the player just has to make the throws.
Even with Maynard yesterday, he seems to making the right reads and there are open receivers, but he just could not make the throws. I do not know what else Tedford can do.
Maynard was seen as an upgrade since everyone else is young…
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Even with Maynard yesterday, he seems to making the right reads and there are open receivers, but he just could not make the throws. I do not know what else Tedford can do.
Yesterday Maynard was only making one read and locking on to that one read, thus the interceptions. Sure he aired out a few passes and missed some sideline throws but he was also burning a hole throw KA and MJ’s jerseys with his eyes and leading the coverage to where he was going with the ball.
I suppose Maynard is a bridge QB until one of the younger guys can step up.
Definitely agreed on the “locking” on receiver thing but there were a number of throws where the receiver was open and Maynard couldn’t get it to him.
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Sure
but you can make a long list of HS QBs that never developed.
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Also:
Sweeney was a 3 star recruit/39th best player in the nation
Mansion was a 4 star recruit/28th best player in the nation
Check out some of Pac-10’s QBs that never made it
Aaron Corp: No. 3 in the nation
Kevin Croft: 5 stars
Nick Crissman: no. 9 in the nation
Richard Brehaut: no. 9 in the nation
Remember Ben Olson?
Conversely
Andrew Luck: no. 47 in the country (5 stars)
-Guys ranked higher than him: E.J. Manuel and Dayne Crist
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What gets me about JT is his 17-22 record in league play since 2007, and that includes, I think, 3 pre-Longshore injury wins. So when Nate fell in the Battle of Eugene, we’re just 14-22 in conference play.
It really has been 2 programs in Tedford’s tenure. One that competed and had a lot of success, the other which was completely mind-boggling.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
This is so true and why Tedford is quickly becoming a love/hate type figure at Cal
It really has been 2 programs in Tedford’s tenure. One that competed and had a lot of success, the other which was completely mind-boggling.
I would never question or even entertain the thought of firing the 2002-2007 version of Tedford.
However, it is the 2008 to the present version of Tedford that I have lost hope and confidence in.
Same coach…not as good players.
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Really
who are these better coaches?
Kiffin: No but recruiter but not a better coach.
Sark: Maybe
Chip Kelly: Maybe but Tedford beat him and Belloti before
Neuheisel: Heck no
Erickson: No
Riley: Even
Stoops: Oh yeah…not there anymore
Wulff: Incomplete.
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Tedford has never beaten Kelly while Kelly has been the HC
Tedford did defeeat Kelly once while Kelly was the OC at Oregon.
Riley is 7-2 against Tedford, I would not call that even at all.
What were the recruiting rankings between Cal and UW from 2007-2009? I would lean that Sark is slightly better than Tedford at the moment. Sark has done a great job in coaching Price up, who as a first year start looks like the next great Cal QB.
Tedford might be better than Kiffin but how would we know? Kiffin is 2-0 against Tedford as a HC and he has multiple wins against Tedford while he was on the SC staff under PC.
Tedford, despite being better than Stoops, which I agree was only 4-3 against him in his career.
I agree that Tedford is probably a better coach than Erickson is today in Ericksons career.
Tedford is better than Slick Rick.
Wulff is incomplete because he was left with literally nothing at WSU. Even Tedford had more talent left to him after the Holmoe era than Wulff inherited.
stanfurd? Well Tedford was great against Walt Harris and Buddy Teevens. He ended up with a 2-2 record against harbaugh. Shaw and the furd probably beat us this year but that has more to do with Luck. We will know how good of a coach Shaw really is in the next two years.
I don’t think you can fairly say that Riley is even with Tedford. Even discounting head-to-head records, what Riley has done at Oregon State, with its inherent limitations, is nothing short of remarkable.
BTW, other coaches:
Harbaugh: Better (even though he’s a d-bag)
Wittingham: Better
Shaw: Incomplete
Embree: Incomplete
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not quick to throw Wittingham as better
Sure he has more on the field success and a BCS bowl win but let’s see what he does in Pac12 play.
Although Wittingham has already beat Tedford head to head and is currently 1-0 against him.
I think it’s going to be a few years of adjustment, but once Utah is regularly recruiting enough BCS conference caliber players they’ll make the transition.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Perhaps, we will see. I am not sure how many kids are going to want to go out to SLC, Utah. While I know Utah is not a Mormon school, they still have a lot of Mormons and are in the middle of beehive state.
No doubt the talent level at Utah will also increase, I am just not sure how much yet.
I do respect Wittingham and believe he is a really good coach.
tough to get that talent to go to SLC, I think. The fuskies did it similarly, and Oregon’s doing it now…
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
It is, but they’ve been getting decent enough players already, and it’ll definitely get easier to attract them now that they are part of a major BCS conference and will have games in California every year.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 15, 2011 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree about Riley…what he has done at Oregon State has been amazing but he hasn’t been as successful as Tedford…he is also having a couple of bad years…should he be on the hot seat?
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Yes Riley probably should and I believe BTD has even discussed
whether he should be on the hot seat.
If we measure success as winning Pac10 crowns and going to the Rose bowl then Tedford and Riley are even.
If we measure it by winning seasons and going to a bowl game they are probably equal. However, I would guess that OSU has a better Pac10 record under Riley than Cal does under Tedford during the years they have coached together in the Pac10.
Actually
Tedford is 44-33
Riley is 44-43.
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Wow that is amazing a dead tie? Well the advantage goes to Riley
because he has the head to head wins and wins over SC.
No
Riley has ten more losses…
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How can that be? Are you looking at his entire career at OSU
or just his second stint?
I am not including his first stint at OSU. I want to know what his Pac10 record is during the years Tedford has been at Cal.
So when did Rileys 2nd stint at OSU start? 2003?
Yup
you’re right…it’s about even then…
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No effing way. If Tedford deserves a chance to rebuild (which I believe he does), certainly Riley does. Oregon State also has to take into account that their capability to attract an excellent replacement is also much less than Cal’s.
But anyway, considering the devastating injuries Riley has had to deal with, I think he’s safe from the hot seat, for now.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions
My point exactly…I
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I don’t think a single person in this entire thread has said “Fire Tedford now”, though, so I don’t know who you’re arguing against. Personally I’m willing to see what he can do through the end of 2012 at least. Maybe you think he deserves till 2013 or 2014 to show us another 9-10 win season or better, but that’s a difference in degree, not in kind.
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by atomsareenough on Oct 14, 2011 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s the feeling I’m getting from some people both here and other places.
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I would say
at end of 2014.
They move into the new place/facility next year and should affect recruiting in the next few years afterwards.
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he’s got some things in place (Gould, Lupoi, Kiesau, Coach M, SAHPC, new stadium) which could help him get back to pre-2007 form, but they are still many pieces away.
I’m stunned at how fast hairball got that train wreck to 11+ win team, and I don’t think it’s all Luck. I think they’ll be good with Rottingham (really, furd’s always been able to get NFL QB talent). The other pertinent pieces are in place.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
ok, I'll play your game you rogue
Kiffin: has outscored cal’s teams 62-0 in the first half…but we win the second halves!
Sark: 3-0 against Tedford after inheriting a winless team
Kelly: seriously?
Neuheisel: Tedford is definitely better and Neuheisel is about to be fired
Erickson: Iffy but I’d rather have Tedford
Stoops: still beat us with regularity
Wulff: eh
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Kiffin and Kelly both has better talent than Tedford…
Sarkasian has definitely been good but I would argue that Washington football easier to resurrect than Cal. Also, Cal went up to Washington and was basically tied with Washington for must of the game
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Kiffin has three good players on offense, Woods, Khalil, and Barkley
I would argue Cal has better talent on defense than SC does. Talent wise I would say the teams are similar with SC holding perhaps a slight advantage but Cal did play at home so that was in our favor.
Yes…but for Maynard’s bad turnovers…the game would been a lot closer.
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If Woods and Barkley had hit on a few of their long throws the score would be worse
see if works both ways.
Do, uh, we think Sark would consider a hypothetical Cal opening at the position of Head Coach?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Meh, “blood” doesn’t matter. I would take a Stanfurd coach if he was good and not a Harbaugh-esque douchebag (e.g. I was quite happy at Mike Montgomery’s hiring).
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 15, 2011 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions
I agree but it isn’t that simple and that doesn’t deflect all the blame from Tedford.
1. These are his players, he did not inherit them from another coach who got fired. These are the players Tedford recruited.
2. Same coach, different conference and different opponents. Do you know how many coaches that walked the sideline with Tedford from 2002-04 are still coaching in the Pac12 today? 1 and that one coach is Mike Riley at OSU who also holds a 7-2 record against Tedford. So while the schools are all the same, the coaching at those schools have improved over the years.
That one is really depressing, especially since Cal has always had better talent
and recruiting classes than OSU, tree sitters or not.
Sure
but Riley also beat USC a number of times and came close in a couple of other years
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So that is another reason why Riley would be considered better, right?
Riley also beat USC a number of times and came close in a couple of other years
So that only strengthens the argument that Riley is a better coach than Tedford and is able to get more out of less talented players.
Maybe
but to judge the quality of a coach based upon head to head matchups with another coach is dubious for me.
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Okay, how would you judge them?
but to judge the quality of a coach based upon head to head matchups with another coach is dubious for me.
To me that seems about the only way to judge them, at least their on the field production. I am not talking about classroom and graduation.
Problem is
that coaches don’t play on an even field…USC and Oregon have a tremendous advantage over other teams.
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Yes and Cal has a tremendous advantage over OSU
you have to see that Cal has a huge advantage over OSU.
We play in Cal, we get the better Cal recruits more often than not, we have better recruiting classes, and neither team has a strong football tradition so that is even.
Yes…again…Riley is very very impressive.
Levels of advantage
USC/Oregon
.
.
Washington
.
Arizona schools
Cal/UCLA (academics)
Stanford
.
OSU/Utah/Colorado
.
.
.
WSU
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Does Oregon really have tremendous advantages?
I’ll grant you USC, who just skim the best talent off the top of the pool and pull in a national top 5 class every year.
But Oregon and Cal have been fairly equivalent on the talent – input side for a while now. Per rivals, over the last five years, Oregon’s classes have ranked an average of #3.4 in conference, averaging 24.2 kids per class and 3.26 Stars per kid. Cal’s classes ranked #4.4, 21.6 kids per class, 3.18 average stars. Of those kids, I don’t know about Cal, but a significant portion of the 4+ star kids signed by Oregon have underachieved or washed out. And unlike USC, Oregon has hardly been an NFL factory on the back end.
Where’s the tremendous advantage? Because it doesn’t seem to show up as far as elite prospects coming in or NFL prospects coming out. If it seems like it’s showing up on the field in the middle, isn’t that coaching?
I'd say those rankings are fairly meaningless
for that comparison, because Oregon’s recruiting strategy revolves around:
1. Bringing in guys who are underrated.
2. Bringing in guys who fit the system.
3. Signing a lot of guys to increase the chances of a diamond in the rough (dilutes overall star rating)
"Ain't no tuition for having no ambition." -Brandon Carswell
But do any of those statements, taken as completely true, actually support the assertion that Oregon has a “tremendous advantage” over Cal that makes it unfair to compare Tedford and Kelly? They seem to cut rather the other way.
Nike funding, ridiculous new facilities, flashy gear and uniforms are all distinct advantages.
California Golden Bears: 2nd place is nothing to sneeze at!
by atomsareenough on Oct 15, 2011 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
Cal fans
take MDMA (hit me up) and search for E. Dindial.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I completely spaced out last night's game. Incredible for me, but
symptom of beginning to not care as much given past results. So, while on ferry headed to town this morning I open the sports page, and third page or so (seattle times), I see a photo and the story and 1. Was aghast I had forgotten it was even played and 2. Insult to injury was how it played out.
ack-A
could be the worst string Ive seen since I joined the blog two years ago
Can we get a picture of that Sun stroking off that thermometer? That always seems to cheer everyone up.
by Glanko on Oct 15, 2011 5:02 PM PDT via mobile reply actions
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