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Jeff Tedford Is Not To Blame For Arizona Loss

Perché? Perché no?

Jeff Tedford is getting a lot of heat and earning a lot more detractors for playing it too safe at the end of the Arizona game and not trying to win the game outright. You know, this whole "playing not to lose" mindset.

Yes, to the chagrin of a lot of Cal fans, I'm not pointing fingers at our head coach. People might blame him for his not-so-aggressive decision-making at the end, but this is all done in hindsight. They conveniently ignore the fact that Tedford, the coaches, and the players put us in a strong position to win this game in the first place with their gameplan and execution. It was a conservative game dominated by defense that the Wildcats somehow won with a random offensive burst and it was well within Tedford's rights to finish the game the way he did.

Let me share with you an anecdote about Tedford and his Golden Bears heading into Arizona Stadium, courtesy of an email a Cal fan who was there sent me, BearOnTheBorder.

Tedford got the boys out of the locker room and just stopped in an area where they were barely visible to most of the stadium.  Everybody was getting fired up in front of Cal's allotment and I said to myself, "Is Tedford, of all people, about to do this?"  As soon as Arizona turned the corner to get onto the field Tedford sprinted the boys out right in front of them crashing the party.  To make things even better, pretty much the entire starting defense went out to the hash closest to our sideline at midfield and started jawing at the UA players as they made their overconfident trots to the sideline.  I mean, it set the tone, man.  It was ballsy because it could have blown up in Tedford's face.  This wasn't a man who was playing "not to lose" as so many people have suggested.  I completely detest that line of thinking.  There is such a thing as a conservative game plan and you can play to win with that plan as much as you can if you're running the MSU "Little Giants" play at the end of a game.  Tedford lived and died by the game plan and he never took his foot off of it.  That's gumption.  That's moxie.  That's why I like Jeff Tedford.

No doubt.

With that being said, we love discussion, so onto our opinions in a special CGB Playcalling Roundtable. Feel free to discuss Tedford and playcalling in the comments. Keep things constructive and civil.

Star-divide

2nd quarter, 3rd and 14, Arizona 34: Vereen picks up 11 yards, but this was ultimately a conservative call that was meant to set up a field goal kick. Agree?

Avinash: Yes. Not much can go right on 3rd and 14 up 3-0. This close to halftime, you want to put points up. This strategy worked very well as Giorgio Tavecchio booted one through.

Kodiak: This was 4 down territory.  Too close to punt. (plus end of the half)  Out of Giorgio's range at the 34.  I think the run call was meant to make it a more makeable 4th down attempt.  When Shane Vereen picked up 11 and put us in FG range - I think it was a good idea to take the points.

Ohio Bear:  I didn't have a problem with this one.  It was a 3rd and long and we were in fringe FG ranage.  The play call made sense to set us up for a chance to score.

LeonPowe: I don't think a run from 3rd in 14 in this situation is the wrong call here. We hadn't hit anything downfield all day - the only other things I could see here would be a screen. I'm ok with that.

yellow fever: Given the situation and the score, I think this call was fine - there was really no reason to believe Riley would come through there, so given the down and distance I'm all for getting the chip shot to extend the lead.

Berkelium97: Take the points on the field goal.  This was clearly one of those games where every single point was critical.

atomsareenough: I don't have too much of a problem here. You don't need to worry about 4th downs in FG territory this early in the game. Especially since the game had been so low-scoring, you take the points. If it was a shootout, sure, go for it. If there was gonna be not enough time left for Arizona to march back down the field (say, under a minute), then maybe go for it. But there were 5 minutes left in the half, and nobody was scoring, so take the points.


Early 4th quarter: 4th and 1, Arizona 6. Vereen just picked up 3 and 2 yards on the previous two plays. A touchdown probably seals the game by putting Cal up 13-3. A field goal makes it 9-3. Do you agree with the decision to kick the field goal?

Avinash: No. I go for it.  It's one yard. Vereen barely ever gets caught in the backfield for a loss or no gain--even if he doesn't get a lot of yards on his gains, he barely gets negative yards. A field goal still keeps Arizona in the game. A touchdown seals the game and takes tremendous pressure off the defense to produce. 9-3 isn't THAT much better than 6-3. You score the touchdown, the Bears offense gains confidence, the Bears defense can play with a big lead. Not a call I like.

Kodiak: Strategically, I can understand wanting to force them to get a TD to tie as opposed to a FG.  But there's still too much time left to be playing that type of numbers game.  Put your foot on their throat already.  The game was there for the taking.  Go.  For.  It.

Ohio Bear:  I wanted to go for this one.  I have mixed feelings about this one.  At the time, the feel of the game/drive was that we would get that if we went for it.  But to get the 3 points there made a lot of sense to me.  We make it a 6-point game with under 12 minutes left.  The way our defense was playing to that point, I thought it was a reasonable call to put AZ in a position of needing a TD to beat us.  So I'm equivocal here: I wanted to go for it, but I thought it (probably) the better call to take the points and go up by 6.

LeonPowe: It's difficult for me to make this call without having observed how the offensive line was playing - was there a lot of moving the pile road paving run blocking going on? Or was the Arizona defensive line filling gaps and stuffing the run. From the previous two plays of 3 and 2 yard pickups, it looks like the D-line was winning the battles. Give me an incomplete on this one.

yellow fever:  Obviously this made the ultimate difference in the score, but I could have gone either way on this way. I said as much in the fourth quarter thread in which I don't think this cost us the game (I put that much more on Giorgio's two missed field goals) and, again, there's no guarantee that Vereen would have made it. I don't find the extra clock bleeding argument terribly compelling either because it's hard to make the case the rest of the game would have played out exactly as it did either. 

I would guess the numbers slightly favor going for it and trying harder for the touchdown, but honestly, I've been on the wrong side of too many stuffed 4th and 1s by the Eagles to work myself up into a lather over it. Andy Reid's taught me to take the points when they're there. So if that makes me a Sunshine Pumper, blame the hundreds of failed 3rd and 1s and 4th and 1s not converted by Brian Westbrook and the Eagles' offensive line.

Berkelium97: This is a stout Arizona defense.  Their front seven had 14 tackles for loss in the first three games.  They had stopped the opponent from converting on two thirds of their third downs and all of their fourth downs.  If Cal hadn't converted the fourth down, all Arizona would need is a field goal to tie things up.  Again, in a game dominated by the defenses I am happy to take the points.  Force them to score a TD--something they hadn't been very close to doing all game.

atomsareenough: 4th and 1, tight game, 4th quarter, that deep, you gotta go for it. This is one of those "killer instinct" plays. You let your offense know that you have full confidence in their ability to cram it down the other team's throat. You have arguably the top RB in the conference. Go get that yard. What's the possible bad outcome here? Arizona has the ball but is pinned inside their 10-yd line. GO. FOR. IT.

CBKWit:  Avi, I think you're missing the obvious play call - the play preceeding the 4th and 1.  Didn't we have 3rd and 5 at that point?  If it was 3rd and 3, I can sort of see a run, but 3 yards on the ground is tough when you're that close to the end zone on third down.  If it was 3rd and 5, we should probably be passing there.

At the time, I wanted to take the points on the 4th and 1.  Our defense was playing great, and that forced Arizona to get a td to win, which I didn't think they'd do.  They did.

Avinash: Disagree. 3rd and 5 is still pretty up-for-grabs by the goal-line. If it was 3rd and 7 maybe, but I can see five yards being a feasible run play. Plus that close to the goal-line, doesn't it seem like a 50-50 proposition that it's run or pass? The defense played against both possibilities well, and I'm not sure how well Riley plays trying to fit the ball into tight spaces against blanket coverage.

The 4th and 1 is a bigger call to me. You should trust Shane and an offensive line to pick up a yard.


Penultimate drive: 1st and 10, Arizona 27, 3 minutes left. Running the ball three straight times, particularly on 3rd and 8 to burn all of Arizona's timeouts and set up a long Tavecchio field goal. Agree with running all three plays leading up to the field goal?


Avinash: Probably not. Again, you're putting big pressure on Tavecchio instead of entrusting your offense to win the game. I don't like this strategy. Perhaps if it was a slow, methodical offense we were playing, but Arizona has shown they can play like crap and put seven points on you very quickly (see last week's Iowa game). I can see the merit of making them burn all their timeouts, but I'd have drove the ball another ten-fifteen yards before playing the timeout game. We tried to drag it out too early and it cost us.

Arizona was stacking the box. They knew a run was coming. Why not try playaction? With all the runs we were putting up there, and the fact we were progressively picking up less and less, the Wildcats were probably selling out with more guys inside. Take advantage of one-on-one coverage and make a big play to seal it. A first down effectively ends the game, timeout or no timeout--the Wildcats would have at best gotten the ball back with well under a minute left.

Don't like running it straight up on 3rd down. First down probability is low, ability to improve field goal kick is low.

Kodiak: I think all of us were screaming for play-action.  Or some type of misdirection.  I would have loved to see Riley fake an off-tackle hand-off and take it on the naked boot.  I don't have a problem with running it on 1st and 2nd down.  We were pounding them.  It was a statement drive - a coming of age drive for the Oline and TE/FB's.  They knew it was coming and couldn't stop us up to that point.  That's confident, physical, smashmouth football.  But, I hated the run on 3rd and 8.  Give Marvin Jones or Keenan Allen a chance to make a play and win the game right there.  We didn't even put it on the proper hash for Tavecchio. 

Ohio Bear: The series of plays starting with 1st and 10 at AZ 27 before Tavecchio's miss: I set forth my views in the post game thread on this one.  I understand running the ball once or twice to make AZ burn timeouts.  But I disagreed there with the approach of setting up for the 40 yard FG by running the ball three straight times.  I know a FG likely wins the game.  But so does a first down.  Why not give us ourselves a chance to win the game with a first down instead of putting all of our eggs in the Tavecchio basket?  AZ was playing the run at that point, intent on stuffing us, burning their time outs, and making us try as long a FG as they could hold us to. The situation seemed ripe for a play action pass.  If not on 3rd and 8, why not try it on the 2nd and 7 play from the AZ 25?  With due respect to Tavecchio, our field goal kicking is not "money" enough to count on a 40 yard FG to ice the game.  In that spot, I thought it the better strategy to try for a first down as another way to win the game.  Making AZ burn the last time out was not, to me, a reward that overrode the downside of an incomplete pass.

LeonPowe: While I don't disagree with the decision to kick the field goal, I - sitting from a computer desk half a world away - wonder if we should have run a couple of "safe" options throws or more downfield play calls on first and second. Screen? Naked bootleg with the tight-end? The Fullback swing pass that Tedford used to love with Will T? Relatively lower risk, but capable of picking up a medium sized chunk of yardage. The other small gripe I have, is, if you're going to play conservative and go for the field goal, why not run the Stanfurd play and center the ball for Tavecchio. He had just missed one - if we're going to just effectively kneel down, why not center the ball and give him the best chance for the kick?

Berkelium97: After last week, I was not confident in Riley's ability to move the ball in these situations, particularly against a defense like Arizona's.  In fact, I was more confident in Vereen and Tavecchio than I was in Riley.  Should Cal have tried a pass on second down? Maybe.  If it fell incomplete fans would be clamoring about how the running game was getting 6+ ypc on that drive while a previous pass to Miller had also fallen incomplete.  Honestly, I thought Tavecchio would hit the 40 yarder.  He had one earlier in the game and 40 is well short of his career high (51, if I remember correctly).  In either case, fans would be griping about something.  There was no easy answer for how to call plays on that last series of downs.

norcalnick: Here's my thought on playing for field goals and a 6 point lead generally:  Arizona, prior to their final drive of the game, had driven the ball into the red zone once.  ONCE!  And that was because of a truly awful pass interference call on Darian Hagan, not from anything their offense did or Cal's defense didn't do.  Based on how the defense was performing (brilliantly) I think it's completely defensible to play for a 6 point lead/9 point lead.  And the incredibly frustrating part is had Tavecchio's first field goal been 6 inches to the left (it barely hit the uprights and almost went through anyway) everybody would be praising the coaching staff for a HUGE upset win on the road.  It's a game of inches.

In retrospect I wish we had gone for the 4th and one, because the next Cal drive demonstrated that the Arizona defense looked pretty gassed and I think, knowing that, that Shane probably would have picked up the yard.  But I didn't know that at the time, when Tedford made the call.

atomsareenough: I think we could've called some playaction on that 3rd down play, or at least tried for one of those high-percentage pass plays somewhere in that set of downs, something designed for a likely completion, and well in-bounds so if/when the receiver is tackled the clock keeps ticking. Yeah, you can say that Riley's inconsistency might be an argument against it, but you have to at least have the option of throwing the ball in that scenario if you want to win games. BTW, what happened to those 1st-down possession plays with Lagemann that were successful all of last year? Even if it's not Lagemann, maybe put Keenan in the slot and run one of them. Anyway, it was obvious that we were playing for the FG, and while I thought we had a good chance of making the FG, I don't like playing for the FG. It needs to be Plan B.


CBKWit: On that last series, I again didn't have much of a problem with running it.  We were picking up 1st downs on the ground - why stop running?  I do think Ohio Bear sums it up pretty well though: "I know a FG likely wins the game.  But so does a first down.  Why not give us ourselves a chance to win the game with a first down instead of putting all of our eggs in the Tavecchio basket?"

It's tough, because that toss sweep had just worked really well with Isi, and you knew the AZ defense was tired.  It was really unfortunate to go from 2nd and 6 to 3rd and 8.  Brutal.

yellow fever:  What isn't noted is that people in our fourth quarter thread were screaming bloody murder when Riley rolled out on a first down pass play earlier in the drive. We're only second guessing this because it didn't work - if we'd called a pass and it didn't work, we'd be sitting here wondering if it was the right call to go for a pass and kill the clock.  So...

That said, personally I'd probably have mixed in a pass there. But given the results in the passing game all day, I would think people should be a little more understanding of Tedford being wary of putting that much responsibility in Riley's hands.

TwistNHook: I agree, Yellow Fever.  There is outcome bias inherent in all of the criticism.  Cal had been pounding the ball on the drive very successfully and everybody I was watching with seemed satisfied with them continuing to pound the ball.  Or kept their mouths shut about any concerns.  This is the nature of things.  If they call a pass and Riley throws an int, everybody complains about why they didn't just run the ball.  The concern I have is ball placement.

Tavecchio missed wide right and I believe that the kick was from the right hash mark.  The kick had the distance. So, perhaps if Cal had run a play to ensure the ball was placed dead red in the middle of the field, then the kick would have been good.

Final conclusions on playcalling

Ultimately, I feel these little plays, while they did influence the outcome, are far from an indictment on our head coach and playcalling. Factoring these problems into the fabric of the entire game, it felt like a pretty small part of the whole pie.

If you want to factor it in, just add Tedford's playcalls with Alex Lagemann stepping out of bounds instead of tiptoeing the sidelines. Or Tavecchio having a field goal suddenly hook at the final second and hit the post. Maybe add in Ross fielding a punt inside his own 5 or Anger subsequently punting a football sideways and setting up Arizona's only crucial score. Let's not forget Juron Criner making the catch of his life on Darian Hagan. Or Shane Vereen cutting outside rather than inside and leaving Tavecchio a tough kick on the right hashmark. See what happens when we get into this game?

The fact is you can point to many small things, both on the execution and playcalling side, and in the end we're just stuck chasing ghosts. There are plenty of little things you can point to in losing a one point game to a very good things, but they're little things. They're fixable. They're correctable.  We can come back stronger and better. The team showed fortitude by punching the vaunted Arizona offense in the mouth for 58 minutes. When two weeks have passed, they'll be ready to do more hitting again.

Jeff Tedford's conservatism might have cost us a little on Saturday. But we wouldn't have been in position to win the game without him.

Poll
Jeff Tedford deserves _________ blame for the Arizona loss.
no
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some
395 votes
a lot of
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all the
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In before nerd rage.

I will say this: I would have gone for it on the 4th and 1 too.
But outside of that I can’t think of much better I could have done.

"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3

by Swamphunter on Sep 27, 2010 3:29 AM PDT reply actions  

Agree, I thought the defense didn’t deserve to lose, they were outstanding all game. The offense was putrid through 3 quarters but was really wearing AZ out in the 4th. I thought going for it on 4th and 1 and making it would’ve killed the game off if successful. That said, the D held strong and Giorgio shanking 2 kicks was a killer.

Inspiring and completing since1997 since2010!

by Fire Starkey on Sep 27, 2010 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

This

I rewatched the game (because I enjoy having my heart ripped out repeatedly,) and I saw plenty of well thrown passes that were dropped, plenty of overthrown receivers, plenty of holding by UA during their scoring drive, and plenty of whiffed blocks by the O-line that killed drives in AZ territory. So I don’t believe there was any one thing that cost us more than any other.

I said it in the remarks after the game and I’ll say it again. I feel better after this loss than I did after the Nevada loss. I feel confident that this team will redeem themselves in the Pac-10 and make a statement in league play. No 7th place finish for us.

Anyone who is predicting a losing season (you know who you are,) is WAY overreacting.

by yorzepol on Sep 27, 2010 5:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am just sort of worried about an 07 meltdown so, losing season, no, but girding my loins about the possibility? Well, I am a Cal fan. I know anything can happen.

by LeonPowe on Sep 27, 2010 5:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

on the losing season, it depends though

I’ve come to the conclusion there are three ways people are concerned in regards to the 7th place finish.

1. Like LeonPowe said a lot of people have just nightmares with the 07 season. That was a real rough season. I’m not sure if the human body can handle more than one season like that without serious long term damage. It’s not so much of how the team is playing but just more of a emotional “I hope this doesn’t turn out like that…” worry.

2. The Tedford critical fans who always crave to find that one extra reason to justify why Tedford isn’t the right coach for Cal (in terms of getting us to the elite level of college football / Rose Bowl). It’s more of a “see this is why he has to leave!!!! see I told you so” reaction. There’s a lot of people who are very reasonable with their arguments and I’m not saying they don’t have any basis for the way they feel. But there’s also a bunch that aren’t, and those fans really bring down the credibility of this group (in my humble opinion). It makes me wonder whether they actually root for Cal to lose sometimes.

3. This is where I stand. The Pac-10 is actually pretty strong from top to bottom (w/o counting WSU). The fact that it’s not going to be that surprising if a 7/8/9 team to take down a 1/2/3 team means any team that doesn’t come out to play each and every week can easily lose many times this season. I love this Cal team already. I’ve never seen a hungrier, team-oriented bunch of players like this in a while. But because the pac-10 is so strong this year I wouldn’t be surprised if we ended up 7th. With that said, I wouldn’t be surprised if they finished 2/3 either.

What we do know for sure is we’re in for a ride this season. Every week we can win an exciting close game or pull an upset, or we can lose games we “shouldn’t have lost” even though that doesn’t have any meaning this season. Who predicted 19 total points from last game? I think we’re in for a lot of surprising games throughout the conference.

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

The loss really, really hurt on Saturday night...

…..but now I’m excited about the defense, if they can figure out the pistol thing. And I’m semi-excited about the offense, as Arizona has one of the best DLs in the country.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would say predicting a losing season is just averting setting oneself for disappointment.

Calling for Tedford to be fired is WAY overreacting.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

but u predicted teh losing season!

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

…yes. I am avoiding being disappointed.

Don’t get me wrong, I still WANT a winning season, but I’m not expecting it….

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s worrisome that Riley is, above and beyond, the best option.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah. It makes me vomit how easily Luck became good.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

If Cal hadn’t converted the fourth down, all Arizona would need is a field goal to tie things up.

Yes, but they would be starting from the 6 or so, and a tied ballgame is better than a losss. Those extra 3 points did nothing.

I think Tedford would have called for a pass on the ‘burn 3 timeouts’ series of plays if he had confidence that a) Riley could complete a short pass and b) Riley wouldn’t get sacked.

I also think, moving forward, that Tedford now knows what he’s got in Tavecchio: a 50/50 shot, and it’s probably lower if it’s a critical kick. Having this info, ahead of this game, would likely lead him to handle things a differently.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 6:46 AM PDT reply actions  

I didn’t think of it this way until just now, but I think Tavecchio’s performance in the Arizona game vindicates Tedford for centering the ball last year in the Big Game. It’s one thing if you have a reliable kicker… it’s quite another if you have someone as inconsistent as Giorgio.

I don’t blame Tedford for this particular game, because until today Giorgio was hugely improved compared to last year. I think that first missed FG off the upright got into his head because he clearly thought it was good when he hit it.

I would also have gone for it on 4th and 1. I am a big proponent of Romer’s study, although I think there are elements it doesn’t take into account like momentum and whatnot. With the way our defense was playing, I think we should have gone for it. I think it’s a defensible position not going for it in the context of the flow of the game (see: 4.4 YPA, inconsistent run blocking), but I would have liked to have gone for it.

by dchu on Sep 27, 2010 7:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

against furd, Cal was close to the goal line, so centering is important, otherwise you have a weird angle to the goalposts.

against zona, I don’t think the hash mark for a 40yd FG is as critical and not as weird an angle….and I’m sure it’s something they practice, practice, practice.

It’s pretty clear, JT has not confidence in KR and now cannot have confidence in GT.

by bluehenbear on Sep 27, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Very good point. I don’t think anyone on the Cal staff, including Tavecchio himself, had any reason to believe he wouldn’t nail the fg that would end up as his second miss. If we had known, I’m sure things would have been differently. But once we were inside Arizona’s 30/40 the playcalling was pretty clear that we were setting up the fg to put the game away. Had we known he was capable of going back to old Tavecchio and THEN the play calling was set up that way I’d be more angry. But really, I thought Tavecchio was going in with an extremely high chance of converting that fg.

With regards to the 4th down conversion, it’s worth noting that while Arizona could score a fg to tie it, there’s other considerations too that shouldn’t be overlooked. Had AZ scored a TD we also would have to score a TD at that point in the game b/c a fg wouldn’t do anything. That’s a lot of pressure for our offense to handle and would make our chances of winning the game pretty low.

And also, hindsight is very 20/20 because during that last drive (where tav missed his 2nd fg) I remember hoping that Riley wouldn’t throw an interception or pick 6. I feel like in many ways Tedford was in a lose lose situation with his playcalling if he ended up losing because had Riley thrown an incomplete I promise you people would be on this board complaining why we would pass in that situation when our running game was going so well throughout the game and why we’d risk it Riley, how he’s a terrible QB and why Tedford is no longer a QB coach etc etc. I for one was extremely worried of Riley’s ability then and was really hoping that whatever we did that we kept possession and not throw the game away.

And I know this is going even farther, but Arizona had to drive down the entire field to score that TD. Yes you’re supposed to not give the other team life but was there any reason our defense gave us the entire game to doubt that they’d get the job done? They had played an almost perfect game up to that point.

There’s so many considerations and this clearly wasn’t a ‘had we been aggressive with the play calling we would have won for sure’ type of game that people are making it out to be.

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 7:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

And I know this is going even farther, but Arizona had to drive down the entire field to score that TD. Yes you’re supposed to not give the other team life but was there any reason our defense gave us the entire game to doubt that they’d get the job done? They had played an almost perfect game up to that point.

True, but as we saw, it only takes one play. And in a game like this, one play wins it all. Not blaming the defense at all, but it seems that at least at one point we could have been a bit more aggressive or daring, and that 4th and 1 situation on their 6 was the time to do that.

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the best thing for Georgio at this point....

…..would be to see the sport psychologist. It’s pretty evident this has a lot more to do with making a big kick under pressure than with his ability and technique.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Disagree. ASU last year was a “Big Kick” and he nailed it. And, if I recall, he hasn’t really had any other game winning situations other than that one and last night. though he’s missed a lot of FG attempts over the past couple years.

I’m not saying his confidence might not be shaky, but I don’t think it’s the Big Moment yips

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t know about Georgio. A lot of his missed FG’s last year weren’t “Big Moment” times but they either put us in bad situations at the end of the game or gave the other team a chance and kept them alive.

I don’t have high expectations of Georgio though. It’s not like we had kickers like Forbath in the recent past.

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

The ASU kick was different. That was practically a PAT (both in spot and distance).

The misses were at least from the hashes and from a decent distance as well.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

The thing is about Giorgio making the big kick against ASU was that he missed the big kick the drive before. I don’t know what you can really take out of that.

"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.

It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0

by AERose on Sep 27, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

You can take out of it that he’s basically an average college kicker. He’ll hit his extra points and nearly all field goals from 30 yards or closer. Out beyond 30 yards, it gets dicey.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

You might be right...

….he may simply have overcompensated for hitting the left upright on the previous kick.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

we should also remember that Tedford had like, what, 10-15 seconds to decide what to do (on the 4th and short)?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

The 4th and 2 call is a toss-up. There was still a lot of time left, and, as we saw, we would get the ball back for two more drives. I think a lot of people are forgetting that without getting this field goal, we wouldn’t have been in a position to win with another one late in the fourth.

And really, getting stopped on 4th and 2 would have been a momentum killer. We all saw what happened when the momentum turned when the last field goal was missed.

by slaphancock on Sep 27, 2010 7:57 AM PDT reply actions  

I was at the game

and quite frankly agreed with the more conservative calls. Kick the field goal (either of them, and neither of them difficult) and it is over. The sense I had in the stadium was that we had to take every point we could get, and rely on a defense that was simply playing awesome. As for not passing, I also felt one turnover (and Riley always make me nervous), and the tide would turn. Most of all, I am amazed and pleased at the heart the team showed after Nevada. Heartbreaking, but GO Bears.

by GoldenBear 77 on Sep 27, 2010 8:13 AM PDT reply actions  

Neither of the field goals were difficult? They were 40 yards out, each from an extreme hashmark. This is college, not the NFL. Those kicks are 50% at best. Maybe he makes one on average. The one he should have made happened to hit the goal post.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

I seriously doubt that Giorgio’s percentage from 40 yards out is anywhere near 75%.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Giorgio’s a different kicker from last season. Don’t forget how much of an upgrade Genyk has been at upgrading his mechanics.

Last year would we have considered doing that? We wouldn’t have been pleased until we had picked up 20 more yards.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

He is better than last year. But I seriously doubt that he hits at 75% from 40 yards out. NFL kickers hit 70% from that distance. Is Giorgio better than that?

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, so the top kickers in the country on the Groza Watch List average 80% for all field goals. I also pulled stats on 42 kickers in Div I, and they are 6-16 from 40+ yards….that’s 38%.

http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/season_preview_2010_watchlist_groza.html
http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/kicking/sort/fieldGoalsMade/qualified/false

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cooking the books?

The kick was right in front of me at the stadium, and it was 39 yards. Looks like those same kickers are 12/16 from the 30-39 or 75%

by GoldenBear 77 on Sep 27, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

So, since it’s at the far end of the spectrum for both of those, why don’t we just say it’s about a 56.26% chance? :)

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Then you’re obviously right. There must be some crazy Bermuda Triangle effect when a kick is attempted one yard further out from 40 instead of 39, that causes the percentage to drop from 75% to 38%.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are comparing apples to oranges. The 42 kickers on the espn link are randoms. If you pull the top 30 kickers on the Lou Groza watchlist for this season, their 2009 stats are as follows:

0-29 93%
30-39 86%
40-49 70%

There are 6 kickers from Pac 10 on the watchlist (ASU, Arizona, OSU, UCLA, Stanfurd, Washington)!

by goingfortheroses on Sep 27, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’re so dramatic “applies to oranges”. Ok, you’re right. Go hang Georgio and Genyk in effigy.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry I wasn’t trying to hang anybody. Just pointing out the facts.

by goingfortheroses on Sep 27, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

So let’s look at the facts….the list of 42 kickers are randoms….I think they are a statistically significant sample size….42 out of 120 Div I schools? Shouldn’t we say Georgio is about average and therefore he should be around 38% from 40+ yards?

Or do you want to say he should be on the Groza watchlist like his Pac10 peers who still only hit 70%.

I would argue he’s not quite on par with those on the watchlist, but I guess that’s where everyone’s going to have their own expectations.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m not arguing that Giorgio belongs in the top 30 (though I hope he develops into one since there are 6 Pac 10 kickers in there). I’m just saying from a statistics perspective, it’s not fair to compare the overall % for Lou Groza kickers to the random list ESPN has. I think it would be fair to take the random list or perhaps even better, kickers from the conferences with automatic BCS bids, and compare their overall % with % for 40-49.

by goingfortheroses on Sep 27, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

I looked this up last night. Tavecchio is 9/19 from 30+

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

ALAAAAMAAAARRRRR

Again, solid kick, just hooked the wrong way.

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think it’s fair to blame missed kicks on the ST coach, unless it was bad spot, snap, or blocking. From all accounts I’ve heard, Genyk’s been trying to make Tavecchio perform in pressured situations.

I wonder how our schollie kicker D’Amato’s been progressing?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well Tavecchio’s mechanics were all F’ed up last year. They’re much smoother and polished this season, so credit to Genyk for making Tavecchio a credible kicker from 30-50 yards.

I do believe Tavecchio could make that kick all the time if it was anywhere but the right hashmark. He looks a lot better than last season and his leg strength is very impressive.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s better, too, but he’s had two road games at higher altitudes (4500 and 2000), which certainly helps the kicks.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

I dunno.

Our special teams play this year doesn’t seem to be any better, and may be worse than last year — at least a third of the way through the season.

We’re not getting much in the return game, and I’m not sure if that’s due to poor blocking or lack of quickness/elusiveness from Ross and others. But we’re not getting it done. And the field goal kicking is scary. We can’t hit anything over 25 yards with any consistency. I hope at the end of the year we don’t miss Pete Alamar.

by Monica's Dad on Sep 27, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Uh

Our special teams play is much, much better than last year, in basically every way.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

We don’t have the other team starting near, at, or beyond th 40 yard line all the time after a kickoff. That’s been a very positive development this year!

Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

by Ohio Bear on Sep 27, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ross seems to like to return kicks and head towars the outside of the hashes; I think he’s more talented with more field to work with and I don’t think he has the speed there to “turn the corner”.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

He seems much slower this year, mostly from the second game on. I wonder if he’s injured?

The kickoffs and kickoff coverage is much much better than past years.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Are you friggin serious? 100% successful 50% of the time IS NOT SUCCESSFUL. This it not Alamar’s fault, not even close.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

You don’t think Tavecchio has improved as a kicker?

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

He has, but not to the point where I would bend over backwards (not passing on 3rd and 8 or 3rd and 14, and not going for it on 4th and 1) to let him kick 30+ yard FGs.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair enough.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

But 60% of the time, it works every time.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 4:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

That . . . doesn’t make sense.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

I re-watched the 3 and 8 play a few more times. (I know – I’m a sick, sick man)

It looked like the run was designed for Vereen to take it to the left, even though all the motion and blocking were headed strongside to the right. However, the AZ slot CB moves up and charges the line right at the snap. (not sure if it was a designed run-blitz or if he just made a great instinctive play) He forced Vereen to cut it back inside.

We gambled to catch them looking for the pass – and did run a play designed to center the ball. But either a great playcall, good coaching (telling the CB to charge if the Cal WR went in motion), or just great individual effort from the AZ defender blew that up.

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2010 8:14 AM PDT reply actions  

Go see a doctor. Not just just once but ‘a few more times’.

You are crazy.

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 8:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Cal Football – Your luv is like baaaad medicine…

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

We gambled to catch them looking for the pass

I’m pretty sure everyone in the stadium knew that was going to be a run.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Early 4th quarter: 4th and 1, Arizona 6. Vereen just picked up 3 and 2 yards on the previous two plays. A touchdown probably seals the game by putting Cal up 13-3. A field goal makes it 9-3. Do you agree with the decision to kick the field goal?

This was the only play that had me upset. Go for it. As was pointed out, getting the 1st and a TD would have iced the game. Not getting it wouldn’t have made any difference, as Zona would have still needed a TD to win. On their 6, with the way our defense has been keeping them in check, this wasn’t as big a gamble as it seemed.

Whether JT just felt that any points were good ones, or simply had no confidence in the offense is hard to figure. But when you’re in a close match with only one or two FGs making the difference, you have to try to gamble at some point, because all it takes is one lucky play, one mistake, or one brain fart and the other guys get 7.

But all in all I don’t pin this loss on the coaches. This is on the offense. From top to bottom, they just let the team down.

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 8:24 AM PDT reply actions  

50/50

I kind of wanted to go for it, but if we don’t make it (remember, two of the best DL in the country are on that Arizona line), the game was basically lost right there, I think. As it turns out, kicking the FG and hoping for one more was not unreasonable at all at the time.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 8:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

If not Tedford, then WhO?

Did Holmoe deserve the blame? Did Gilbertson? OF COURSE they did because, ultimately, they were responsible for assembling, coaching and preparing their Cal teams and for game-time decision-making. And so is Tedford.

Bottom-line: Tedfraud is making an obscene amount of money to win games like that. Sadly, in his ENTIRE tenure at Cal he has only one ONCE — $C, 2003 — against a superior opponent, but that’s what we’re paying him to do. He grabs credit in victories and, bygod, he’s gotta face the music in defeats. It is called coaching football and he is payed well to do it.

More importantly, if we keep making excuses for the man and giving him raises, NOTHING will ever change.

by Jack McCoy on Sep 27, 2010 8:25 AM PDT reply actions  

You’re comparing Holmoe and Gilbertson to Tedford?

Really?

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

I actually haven’t given him a single raise. Just to be clear.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think Obama deserves the blame, but that’s just me.

by HolmoePhobe on Sep 27, 2010 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Or Canada, blame Canada.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m blaming the blue pants.

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Gold on gold, FTW!

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m blaming Hammerpants!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Please, Twist – don’t hurt them!

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with the general thrust, that responsibility lies with the coach.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

agreed but.....

Yes, bottom line, Tedford gets the credit – both for better & worse. Riley gets the credit – both better & worse. I don’t hear either of them shying away or pointing fingers. It was a game we shudda won but didn’t. It was also a game where everyone on this board was predicting at least a 7 point loss. We went into tough venue and totally outcoached & outplayed the 14th ranked team.

This stung almost as much as the Big Game of ’07. However, it also showed that we have a lot of bright spots where once we had questions. Now, can we overcome, pull it together and make a season of it?

by cal85 on Sep 27, 2010 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sadly, in his ENTIRE tenure at Cal he has only one ONCE — $C, 2003 — against a superior opponent,

If you are setting the bar for a “superior” opponent to be at the SC level from 2002-2005, then yes, you have a pretty good argument. Cal has not played many “superior” teams like that. But let’s not forget Tedford teams have beaten a Top 15 Michigan State team and #12 UW on the road in 2002 and smacked the shit out of #11 Oregon in 2006 at home.

Pay the man his dues and don’t revise history. It’s obvious Tedford has struggled the past few years and I don’t think the point of this story is to make an excuse for him. Rather, it’s to share some insight with those who look at what Tedford has done with selective data to make their decisions, much like yourself.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Oregon 2007.

Also, Stanford 2009.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, Arizona 2010 FUCK IT HURTS

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hold me.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sadly, in his ENTIRE tenure at Cal he has only [won] ONCE — $C, 2003 — against a superior opponent, not counting the other games in which Cal has done it.

Fixed.

Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

by Ohio Bear on Sep 27, 2010 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could say UofA 2009 as well…

"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"

by CruzinBears on Sep 27, 2010 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does the Holiday Bowl 2006 count, also? Miami 2008 probably doesn’t, though.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think Vegas actually had us favored in that Holiday Bowl. Most of the pre-game predictions I read had A&M beating us, though.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

z

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, this is embarrassing.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Does the Holiday Bowl 2006 count, also?

No, Cal was clearly the superior team to TAMU.

Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

by Ohio Bear on Sep 28, 2010 6:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yep. I’m sure SBNation is working on it. Real PITA this past week.

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

In reviewing the internal emails, the technical support is WELL aware of the problem as this appears to be SBN-wide and affecting just about every single person. They are working on it and hope to have it solved soon.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s Obama trying to get us to work so teh economy improves.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Is that why you made Baby Carp? So he’ll contribute to the preserving future of social security?

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

nice write-up

rec’d

How can you not love a team that does this?

by LovinBlue on Sep 27, 2010 8:39 AM PDT reply actions  

They conveniently ignore the fact that Tedford, the coaches, and the players put us in a strong position to win this game in the first place with their gameplan and execution.

I don’t understand this comment. Aren’t the coaches and players responsible for most of what goes right and what goes wrong?

I imagine that when people criticize (for example) Tedford, they’re implicitly saying “he did everything else right, except…” as opposed to “he shouldn’t get credit for any of the things that went right, and…”

by HolmoePhobe on Sep 27, 2010 8:51 AM PDT reply actions  

Also, the people who are calling for Tedford to be fired are morons. But that doesn’t mean that his every decision should be immune to criticism.

by HolmoePhobe on Sep 27, 2010 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

He’s not immune from criticism, yet he also can’t go out and kick the field goals, defend the 6’4" WR, make the open field tackle (unless he’s in a Buffalo Wild Wings commercial), etc. He gets the team ready and sets the game plan in place.

I do believe there were coaching errors in the game, just as there were player errors. But its football, its going to happen.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

A lot of it is about how much control the coaches have over the action. I’ve always been in the school of thought that they really don’t have all that much. It’s all about player execution and that unless a play call is unbelievably bad, it’s not as much on the coaches.

Clearly, other people disagree and that’s totally cool.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

Clearly they need more Kool-Aid.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

unless a play call is unbelievably bad, it’s not as much on the coaches.

Yes, this.

The coaches are responsible for putting the team in a position to win, through schemes, playcalling, personnel, practice, and preparation. On the field, it’s on the players to perform. And anyone who thinks Cal was not in a position to win is obviously deluded.

Could the coaches have done more to help bring about a win? Possibly. But did they do anything (or fail to do something) that brought about the loss? Very doubtful. Which is why blaming this on Tedford makes little sense.

Hey, Ucla -
1. Get your own colors
2. Get your own fight song
3. GET A REAL BEAR!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 27, 2010 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah, I disagree

since the college football coach oversees everything, including all personnel recruitment and decisions, they have responsibility for wins and losses. And obviously, coaching makes a huge difference: witness the turnaround from 2001 under Holmoe to 2002 under Tedford. Tedford deserves all the credit there, as he deserves all the blame for heading what has been a mediocre program for the last 3+ years.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

I would not term the last 3 years mediocre. I would say above-average. Somewhere between good and great. Not a girl, but not yet a woman.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not really above-average in the Pac-10 though. I’ll grant that this is partially due to other teams improving and Nate Longshore’s unfortunate injury, but we finished 7th in 2007 and tied for 5th in 2009 (and we lost to USC, so it’s an effective 6th). That’s below average in the league. Of course I’ll withhold judgment about this year’s team until all the games are played, but another finish of 5th or lower would pretty much prove that we are a mediocre Pac-10 program right now.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

From 02-04 (and really 06) we all (myself definitely included) lavished praise on Tedford. He deserved it. Just as he deserved credit for the teams’ great success during this period, he deserves blame for its mediocre performance in recent years. It doesn’t make sense to credit Tedford when things are going well and blame the players when things aren’t.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

Girl, you’ll be a woman soon. Please come take my hand. Girl, you’ll be a woman soon. Soon you’ll need a man.

Today's the day the California Golden Bears have their picnic.

by zoonews on Sep 27, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, Holmoe deserves some credit. He recruited players with decent enough skill to get to 7 wins…

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mostly on Tedford

Because the game was mostly decided in the last 3 minutes. Coaching decisions are most important at the end of the half and the game, and on the occasionally 4th down play – most of the other times it’s about player execution. The players (and coaches, via preparation) set themselves up with a decent chance of winning.

Tedford threw it away by playing not to lose. I saw it coming a mile away. It’s so easy to predict. That kind of predictability has lost us several games.

Tedford wipes away so many of his great coaching decisions and actions with these kind of game-losing ones.

The 3rd and 14 run call is actually great, b/c it’s unexpected, and probably our best chance of getting a 1st down. The 4th and 1 is unforgiveable, as is the penultimate series. The 1st down gets the win. Get it. Use all 4 downs to get it. Even getting 7 yards to the center and kicking on 4th and 1 an easier field goal would have been wiser – what were they thinking?

I felt much better after the Nevada loss, actually. This was a Pac-10 game – play to win!

Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS

by JerrottWillard45 on Sep 27, 2010 9:10 AM PDT reply actions  

You play to win the game

Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.

by CalBandGreat on Sep 27, 2010 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah Herm, how’s that winning thing going for you?

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 7:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would like to say great job Jeff Tedford and the entire defensive coaching staff. With the talent (and now coaching?) on that side of the ball, I’m ready to not lost to Arizona for another few more years.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 9:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Anyone remember this series?

For some reason, there was this one set of plays that I just can’t seem to get out of my mind and keeps me wondering “what if?”

What if Ross hadn’t caught the punt inside the 5 giving us poor field position?
What if Riley had ran on 3rd down when there was open space instead of throwing on the run?
What if Anger didn’t shank the punt leading to a short field for Arizona?
What if they didn’t score a field goal because of several lapses of judgement by numerous players on the cal team?

by hiltxan on Sep 27, 2010 9:21 AM PDT reply actions  

There were 2 times when it was 3rd and something that Riley appeared to have a chance to run. One was I believe 3rd and 6 and the other was 3rd and 4. Of course, Riley as much as anybody knows how quickly a shot to run for a first can disappear (:(!!!!!!!!!!!).

That said, due to the poor camera work, it was difficult to determine how likely it was that he actually would have succeeded with a run. 3rd and 6, if a D player is 10 yards out, it can look like you got a shot to run, but get stop 1 yard away. 3rd and 4 that is somewhat more likely to succeed. Tough to tell.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for bringing up more reasons to be depressed.

Ross’ decision to catch was basically a turnover. We basically gave them the ball back in our territory because of a lapse of judgment.

Good point because I’m never watching this game again.

by nickle on Sep 27, 2010 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

What if Loggy had kept his feet in bounds? What if….ah I’m blue in the face already.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah

Particularly “What if Riley had ran on 3rd down when there was open space instead of throwing on the run?” The 2007 Armed Forces Bowl MVP Riley would have gotten that first down with his feet. That series might have been the real difference maker (besides not centering the field goal).

by JohnnyCalifornia on Sep 27, 2010 9:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

What if Riley had ran on 3rd down when there was open space instead of throwing on the run?

This was Riley’s biggest mistake of the game. It was magnified when Anger shanked the punt on the very next play, leading to Arizona getting three points — after moving the ball zero yards in three plays.

Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

by Ohio Bear on Sep 27, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

No, it's not all on Tedford

Giorgio should have made his kicks. The offense should have performed better and gotten at least one TD (and they had their chances). Hagan shouldn’t have allowed that long completion (though his coverage wasn’t exactly terrible). Ross shouldn’t have caught that punt inside the 5. But Tedford’s overly-conservative game management in the 4th quarter is also partly responsible.

As to the three examples above, though:

1. I don’t have a big problem with running it and kicking a FG there. 3rd and 14 is a pretty unlikely conversion, but you are close to field goal range, so may as well try to pick up what you can and kick it. It’s early enough in the game that I have no problem with taking the points when you can get them — you don’t know how the end game will play out.

2. Should have gone for it on 4th-and-1. The stats back up that it’s a good call. Even if you miss, Arizona’s offense is pinned deep and you have a good chance of getting the ball back with good field position. I can see the reasoning behind getting the 3 points, but I would have supported going for it. And yes, I would still support the call even if we got stuffed on 4th down.

3. Should have called something other than three straight runs. I don’t mind keeping the running game going (for the majority of plays) at that point, but if you’re really serious about getting another first down, a pass has to be mixed in there at some point. Running it three straight times made it 7 straight runs, and 9 runs out of 10 plays total on the drive. It’s too predictable, and Arizona’s defense is good enough to stop it if they know what’s coming. Running it on every down in that series was basically admitting that we weren’t trying to gain another 10 yards.

Yes, making a field goal would have effectively put it away. But getting another first down would have REALLY put it away, and you wouldn’t have to rely on an inconsistent college kicker hitting from 40 yards out. While I wouldn’t say it’s a totally unreasonable strategy (as with example #2), it was the wrong strategy. We could have stomped on Arizona’s throat and instead we let them get back up.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 9:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Sounds like we are in complete agreement!

by atomsareenough on Sep 27, 2010 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

not Tedford's fault

Would anyone be complaining if GT made the 40-yarder and sealed the win? I know I wouldn’t.

And that doesn’t mean we should be calling for Giorgio’s head either – I have to believe he is the best kicker available, as Riley is the best QB available, and as Longshore was the best QB available at the time.

The D looked great. The O needs to develop – better/quicker reads for Riley, WR’s hold on to the ball, special teams make the plays. We can have a good season but will be in a bunch of dogfights.

GO BEARS!

by 1988goldenbear on Sep 27, 2010 9:55 AM PDT reply actions  

Would anyone be complaining if GT made the 40-yarder and sealed the win? I know I wouldn’t.

Personally, I still would have said that it was wrong to play for the field goal on that series, and that we were fortunate Giorgio made his kick and sealed the win for us. But you’re probably right that there would be less complaining.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So, basically, win or lose, you like to complain! You truly are a Cal fan! And, most likely, a member of my family.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

There’s always something to complain about. I may not have brought it up if we’d won, but if anyone had asked me, I still would have said I disagreed with Tedford’s decision to run 3 times on that series.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

agree

I can absolutely see an argument for running Vereen again on 4th down, more than for being more aggressive on the play-calling on downs 1-3. I think it is probably that more coaches would go for it there than not, but the fact remains if we are up 12-3 the game is essentially over.

by 1988goldenbear on Sep 27, 2010 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

Yes, I would still complain – and shut it TnH (I see your reply to this) – I’ve seen us squeak by with wins where we should’ve and could’ve won definitively, and barely scraped by with coaching errors. And other games where we were coached well and lost – and I didn’t complain about the coaching. I’m saying some of us are consistent.

Probably those of us who are willing to stay through the 4th quarter and cheer even when we’re down by a lot of points. We have earned the right to complain, to other Cal fans, on a Cal blog.

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by JerrottWillard45 on Sep 27, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think a coaching tenure should be evaluated on the basis of 1 single game.

What’s clear over the last 4 years is that this program is not on the level it needs to be.

I’m really interested to see if JT pulls in the recruits we’re favored for right now come February. And how this team performs the rest of the way. A win in 2 weeks will go a long way to restore confidence. A third loss in a row and his seat will be burning. Great coaches don’t allow teams to lose 3 in a row.

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by CaliforniaEternal on Sep 27, 2010 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Where the program “needs to be”, “should be” and “want it to be” are subjective.

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by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think one thing everyone can agree on is that finishing no higher than 4th in the conference standing the last 3 years is “not on the level it needs to be.”

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by CaliforniaEternal on Sep 27, 2010 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

Agree that we should consistently finish 4th or better. I want us to consistently finish 2nd or better.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I want to Win Forever the Pete Carroll way!

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

There were several wild cards this season

One, the new defensive coordinator and his scheme was questionable with our personnel. So far, I think it is still a bit up in the air. Sucked against Nevada, great against UA. I think it will be an interesting test vs. ucla and their pistol. I think we will do much better than against Nevada, but will have to score more than just field goals to win.

Two, QB. If Longshore>Riley, and Riley>Sweeney>Mansion, we better hope that one of our young kids can step up big time in the next season or two. Or we will be mediocre for a while. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve watched other college QB’s throw with touch, make great reads, etc. and wonder how we would do with one on our team.

Three, Kicker. Great ones like Forbath are pretty rare, I think. And did you see how many pro’s missed kicks this weekend? Sort of made me feel better. But Giorgio must feel horrible.

But to your point, since QB development is supposed to be one of Tedford’s strengths, it is true we haven’t seen much of that in his tenure at Cal, the exception is Rodgers. That has to change. We have also had a lot of flux at the offensive coordinator position, making things even tougher.

by 1988goldenbear on Sep 27, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

With UCLA having tipped their hand....

….does anyone anymore object to having played Nevada already? Would you rather Pendergast be trying his “go-for-the-running-back-on-every-play” against Nevada, or now for the first time against UCLA?

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 2:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good point, since we’re likely not going to a BCS bowl, the best we can do is contend in our own conference. Thus, having learned against Nevada is better than to have learned against UCLA.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Conservative

With his game plan, Tedford and his team were in position to win this game. After I read through the comments, I am in agreement with LP, and it was my thought right after the game. if you’re going conservative, you should go all in with it. Tedford failed to run the ball into the middle of the field in the fourth quarter, leaving a very tough angle for his kicker …well, we know what happened. I’m still encouraged by this game, looks like the defense I was hoping for. Go Bears!

by dann56 on Sep 27, 2010 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

cognitive dissonance

i’m completely puzzled by the headline for this article given that you disagree with tedford not going for it on 4th and 1. how can you say we should have gone for it and put the game out of reach, but then also say that tedford is not to blame for the loss?

is this all semantics at this point? i guess i’m not clear on when a coach would deserve blame. what does blame even mean then?

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 10:42 AM PDT reply actions  

I don’t know what’s going on with that either…. the headline doesn’t seem to relate closely to the post itself….

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by oskisunbear on Sep 27, 2010 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I disagree with the decision. But I don’t believe it means anything other than “we kicked a field goal rather than going for it”. It doesn’t mean “Tedford is wrong and this decision cost us victory.”

If we had gone for it and missed it, Tedford would be blamed. But Tedford is being blamed now for deciding to kick the field goal early rather than going for the win.

The fact is these small decisions are a micro-issue and cannot be pinpointed as the sole reason as to why we won or why we lost.

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

there are so many factors in a game that fall beyond a coach’s control: whether a player fields a punt at the five, whether receivers drop balls, or qbs throw when they should run. there are myriad reasons why a team wins or loses a football game. we’re in agreement. that’s really obvious.

but, that’s exactly why the 4th and 1 decision, which you and i both disagree with, is so damning in my eyes. it WAS in tedford’s control whether we went or not. if ross doesn’t field it at the five do we win? maybe. if lagemann gets his foot down do we win? yes. but those things were out of tedford’s control, and were done with anyways.

how many decisions in a game are there where the coach knows that specific call will probably win or lose the game? not many, even though pretty much every play CAN win or lose the game. it’s a paradox or something. but those plays are more important, and i believe a fan can hone in on them, assign them more weight, because the coach too understands their weight in the moment.

i feel that tedford doesn’t thrive in these moments and i think these moments are important. there are always things you can point back to and say that well…had this stuff happened differently then it wouldn’t have been close, and yet we all know that games are going to be close, that players are going to be make mistakes, and that coaches will have to make good decisions in tough spots.

you disagree with a few of these big decisions that tedford made and i still think you’re letting him off the hook too easily. also, i wouldn’t have criticized tedford had we gone for it on 4th and not gotten it since i think and thought that was the right decision.

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok. So what if he fails on 4th and 1? It’s a defensive-minded game. 9-3 means Arizona needs a touchdown to win rather than a field goal to tie, which is a huge difference in a game like this. Points are at a premium. If we fail on 4th down and go onto lose, isn’t that just as bad?

We’re all making our rationalizations based on hindsight. If we had won 9-3 or won 6-3 or whatever, we’d have given him credit, but because we lost, we’re criticizing him. So what I’m saying there’s no such thing as the right or wrong decision. The decision is right or wrong based on the outcome of the decision. We’re just projecting the rest.

Ultimately there’s no way he can win with the fanbase. Unless we, of course, win.

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ultimately there’s no way he can win with the fanbase. Unless we, of course, win.

Exactly. And with two bottom half finishes in the last 3 years, with the possibility of another one this year, people are going to criticize him, just as they praised him for 2nd place finishes. It’s not complicated.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

People cite the bottom half stat so much that it annoys me. We finished with a winning record in both of those years. It’s not like our team became crappy all of a sudden. The rest of the conference played well themselves. We’re still averaging 8 wins a year regardless of where we place in the Pac-10. Is that now unacceptable?

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, in 2007 we won at home against Tennessee, which was great. So he gets credit there. The other OOC games were CSU (which was way too close) and some other scrub team. So yes, I expect him to beat low level mountain west teams and D-II schools.

In 09, we beat a shitty Maryland team and then EWU and Minnesota. Minnesota turned out to be pretty crappy, but at least we beat a big 6 conference team on the road, which we haven’t done in recent years. Credit there as well.

The overall premise is flawed though. I don’t really give a shit about the OOC games, since we’re supposed to win most of them. We should be judged on how well we do within our conference, not by our ability to beat Colorado and UC Davis at home.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

i want a coach...

who believes he can get one yard. again, most championship caliber coaches i can think of have the mentality that they’re going to execute and impose their will on another team especially in such a critical situation.

also, it’s not all hindsight. it’s hindsight if you make your mind up after. when you do it during and before and then talk about it later it’s not hindsight just because you’re talking about the thing after it happened.

i want a coach who thinks in terms of “when we get the first down” not “what if we don’t get the first down”

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I want a coach who thinks in terms of “what if we don’t get the first down” so he has thoroughly considered all aspects of the decision and determined the most appropriate course forward.

I don’t want swash-buckling bravado in my coaches.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

not fair

not entirely fair to call thinking you can gain a yard ‘swash-buckling’ bravado. your characterization typifies the problem with tedford and his apologists. thinking you can gain a yard is bravado. i’m not saying go for every fourth and one, but just once can’t we cram it down someone’s throat and put it out of their hands and not let the “what if we fail” mentality to dictate everything.

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

football is more like

football is more like poker than blackjack. it involves odds and probabilities, but also involves isolated moments of aggression that cut against the safe bet. in black jack, you just follow the probabilities. seems like many of you see football as blackjack.

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Im nto saying that we should or shouldnot have gone for it on the 4th and 1. I can see reasonable arguments on both sides. I’m just saying I want a coach who thoughtfully goes through all avenues before making a decision.

Also, I should just note that in the Colorado game we did go for it on 4th and 2 and failed, so its not like Tedford is some sort of shrinking violet.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 7:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

of course.

we agree. i’m gonna stop driving myself crazy about this loss now. excited for the ucla game in two weeks.

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll be totally honest, I want a coach with swash buckling bravado. Does Tedford know he’s a football coach and not a fund manager?

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by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d kinda want Tedford to have a real sword on the sideline.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Indeed. Though he’d at some point either annoint Riley to knighthood, or lop off his head.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 28, 2010 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think if we're honest with ourselves....

…..there would have been a torrent of people saying “just kick the field goal and win it!” had we not converted on 4th down and had Arizona come back to win.

by ososdeoro on Sep 27, 2010 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah.

doesn’t mean going for it was the wrong thing to do.

by aztectomb on Sep 27, 2010 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, no.

I very often am in favor of going for it – and I make a big point of saying ‘that was the right call’ when we go but don’t get it. I can point to bad punts and missed field goals as the alternative, and be content.

There was a 4th down in the Nevada game where Tedford went for it – and I thought hell had frozen over – I was very happy, and made sure everyone watching it with me new how amazing and revolutionary this call was, coming from convserv-a-Jeff. I applauded it. And we didn’t convert.

Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS

by JerrottWillard45 on Sep 27, 2010 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he deserves some blame in the sense that our offense

isn’t very good anymore and it seems as if it has been regressing over the last three years. Tedford recruited all these offensive players, hired this offensive staff, and he has a redshirt senior QB who has had a lot of PT but is still inconsistent.

I understand that Arizonas defense is good and I wasn’t expecting us to score more than 30 points against them but I felt like 17 – 27 points was a reasonable number of points for us to score. I thought we could atleast score ONE TD against Arizona.

I think we are focusing too much on the little picture here on whether we should have gone for it on 4th down and should take a bigger approach to look at what is wrong with our offense. Once again, these are all kids that Tedford recruited and Ludwig was hand picked by Tedford, he is responsible for the failures of this offense, therefore in my opinion he deserves some of the blame.

Perhaps Oregon and Utah were right about Ludwig? Really our offense hasn’t been the same since Tedford gave up OC responsibilities to focus on the rest of the team. I don’t know the level of Tedfords involvement with offense these days but perhaps he should spend some more time with them in game planning and coaching because in my eyes, we haven’t been the same since he gave up OC position.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2010 11:09 AM PDT reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

I could have (and in fact have) written those first three paragraphs numerous times. Not sure about Ludwig yet, but I absolutely believe and agree with the top three paragraphs.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Could it be:

Jeff Tedford’s an excellent offensive coordinator/playcaller, but very good head coach? To me, as someone who has never played organized football, I never really understood the “great coordinator, therefore let’s hire him as head coach” philosophy that football frequently uses.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

*not a very good head coach?

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by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

You make a lot more sense sober!

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by zoonews on Sep 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Blame? I think he deserves credit for the offense, which is pretty darn good. If we’re complaining, other Pac-10 teams must be really disappointed in their offensive production.

Look at Locker up at UW, getting all kinds of national media hype as a potential first overall draft pick. And his performance over the past few years is not nearly as good as Riley’s. What does ASU, WSU, OSU or UCLA have to brag about offensively? Oregon hasn’t had a good QB since Joey Harrington — they succeed on system alone — and UCLA may join them in that if they can perfect the pistol. But other than Oregon, no offense in the Pac-10 is clearly superior to ours. There are a couple really good QBs in the Pac-10 (Foles and Luck), and a bunch of mediocre ones. And when that vaunted Arizona offense ran into our D, it was nearly shut down completely.

So relative to other Pac-10 offenses, Cal’s O is good. It just isn’t awesome.

Players like Aaron Rodgers (or John Elway, Warren Moon, Dan Fouts, etc.) only come around once in a blue moon. It’s not fair to judge Riley or Longshore or anyone else by those players’ performances. And it’s not fair to judge Tedford harshly because he hasn’t found one recently.

by Monica's Dad on Sep 27, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

It pains me to say this, but the Stanford O might be better than ours. Not sure about the quality of their opponents, though.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Our offense is not pretty darn good. Relative to other Pac-10 schools, our offense is not good. We did not score a touchdown this week. We had three interceptions (including a back breaking pick-6) against a WAC defense. We have had severe difficulty converting red zone opportunities. Our QB just had 4.4 YPA this week. This is not a good offense.

Right now, our offense is definitely better than WSU. It’s in a clusterfuck with UW, ucla, and ASU after that. At best, we have the 6th best offense in the conference. And you could make an argument that it’s lower than that.

Oregon hasn’t had a good QB since Joey Harrington — they succeed on system alone

I can’t comprehend how you can say this is a negative. This is exactly what we want from an offense – the ability to succeed, even if we don’t have a top 3 QB (harrington) or perhaps the best qb on the planet (Rodgers). It would be wonderful to have an offense that doesn’t require the best players executing flawlessly in order to succeed.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oregon has a great offense, whether it’s on system or talent. My point there was to deflect some of the heat from Riley and Tedford’s talent picking since that was one of the criticisms above — that these are Tedford’s recruits allegedly not living up to their potential.

We had a bad week, and there have been interceptions as you point out. But even good offenses have weeks like that. Drew Brees looked pretty weak against the Niners last week. I remember a game last year when Peyton Manning threw three interceptions, but he certainly isn’t a crappy QB.

The Pac-10 is generally considered to be an offense dominated league. So if you’re average or better in this league, you’re good. Defense is another story. Average D in the Pac-10 is probably bottom half of the FBS. But there area couple really solid defenses, and ours is one as long as we’re not playing the option. If our offense sucks, then there are several Pac-10 teams out there whose offenses are an abomination. It’s interesting that our offense has scored more points than the Wildcats so far in 2010…

http://www.pac-10.org/Portals/7/images/Football/2010-Stats/HTML/CONFLDRS.HTM

by Monica's Dad on Sep 27, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t really criticize Tedford’s recruiting, I think we have a decently talented offense. My point is that you shouldn’t need superstars to be successful on offense, and right now, we are not having success. Putting up points at home against Davis and Colorado is nothing. We struggled against an athletically over matched defense in Nevada, and did not score a td against AZ. I just don’t see how that’s a good offense.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is exactly what we want from an offense – the ability to succeed, even if we don’t have a top 3 QB (harrington) or perhaps the best qb on the planet (Rodgers). It would be wonderful to have an offense that doesn’t require the best players executing flawlessly in order to succeed.

++

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by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Monday Morning QBing at its finest!

I really wish there was a game this week.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:14 AM PDT reply actions  

After the last 2 weeks, I need a week off. Just to decompress and not cry so much!

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

I have cried so much in the past that I have no tears left to cry. You will get to this point on day!

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

There there, Twist made some Kool-Aid. Its good. Its all good.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Plus this weekend is the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Fest. Best bye week timing ever.

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by CalBandGreat on Sep 27, 2010 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don't really mind going for the FG's

I am just more upset that our offense is having to settle for those FG’s and I am worried about our offense in general. It seems to be getting worse despite returning three/four OL with starting experience, a senior at QB with a lot of PT, and some good playmakers at RB, WR, and TE.

I just don’t see any improvement from the offense and really haven’t since 06..

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

Our offense in 2007 was pretty sick, at least up untl the injury to Longshore. Since then, we’ve definitely had trouble, especially replacing our great WRs of 2007.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

but even the 07 offense at the start of the year wasn’t as good as the 06 offense.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

NO MARSHAWN, BABY!

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also, didnt they drop 40+ on a couple teams early that year like Tenn and Ariz?

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

While that is true I would take the 07 offense in a heart beat right now

The 07 offense looks like a juggernaut compared to what we have fielded that last two years.

We did lose Lynch so that might have had something to do with it.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2010 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions  

very true.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hey, didnt we drop like 66 on WSU that one year!

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

We can do it again this year! If U$C is good enough to throttle them, so can we.

Mikey-Mo = 3 pick sixes!

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by CalBear2007 on Sep 27, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Portland St.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ok who in the Pac10 hasn't destroyed WSU these last two years?

While not every team has put up 60+ I believe most Pac10 offenses have looked great against WSU.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Do you think they should be banned and left for the WAC/MWC?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

oh christ.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Was I leading the witness?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

You overthrew the witness

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

Its true, I was there.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

but it was just a simple dump pass to the running back!

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m just glad that no one listened to the WSU Carp leading the charge against Cal back in 2000.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

hey, if Boise can do it…why not Wazzu?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

do what?

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Be relevant (again) in the middle of frozen hell wasteland.

Today's the day the California Golden Bears have their picnic.

by zoonews on Sep 27, 2010 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

(i think carp was saying that sdbear might be saying… oh, who gives a shit!)

Today's the day the California Golden Bears have their picnic.

by zoonews on Sep 27, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

sigh

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really don’t get the question. I was referring to the fact that people could have (and I’m sure they did) made the same points about Cal back in 200 when we, you know, hadn’t won a fb or bb conference championship in 50 years. Not sure what Bosie has to do with that.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

sorry. Yeah, I was refering to Boise succeeding up there and, therefore, wazzu should be able to succeed up there.

The element of winning cannot be understated, and I think that really helped the Broncos sustainably become a top program. Sure, they’ve had HC turnover, but they’ve made smart hires and their conference allows the new coach some time to get acclimated and win. Wazzu won’t get that, and I wonder if they’ve fallen too far to make it out of the well.

I want them to be competitive, I just can’t look at them and say “Yes, just because you did before, doesn’t mean you will in the future.”

If I may be so bold, 2000 Cal will always have a lot going for it; alums, media market, excellent university, location, that many schools, including Wazzu, cannot match. Key things were there, now with the remodel and new facilities, hopefully that will be a a key thing as well.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

ah, I see. I really don’t think Wazzu’s straights are that dire. They had some really shitty recruiting for a few years, and who knows if Wulff is the answer? He probably isn’t. But if they hire a good coach, they can easily turn it around.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

How is this any worse than last year?

We scored 3 points against Oregon and SC in 2009.

At least Cal is competitive so far in these games in 2010.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Okay so we will lose 42-9 this year against Oregon

I was worried about our offense last seaosn as well and have been for the last three seasons.

I thought it would get better as Riley and the OL gained more experience but that doesn’t seem to be the case.

by SDBear on Sep 27, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I made this point months back when people were complaining about our OL play against Oregon State in 2009. Cal’s recruiting classes in 2005 and 2006 were piss poor for the OL (and some other areas). We are seeing this recruiting screw up coming back and biting Cal now. The nature of developing OL is long and tedious and it’s rare when you have a guy who can step in and play immediately so it’s not a problem that can go away quickly. I had hope that Cal’s OL would be fixed by this year but my target date was 2011. I’m holding out hope that they can gel and get better over the course of this season. Hopefully, the second half vs UA will give them some confidence moving forward and some better play calling can help take some pressure off them.

Riley has improved dramatically from last year but bad blocking, dropped passes, and poorly thrown balls are still problematic.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

I do not see how Riley has improved dramatically. I’d say he has improved a bit, but not a lot.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

But Coach Tedford told us so!

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

no kidding

It’s pretty clear now that Tedford’s comments were aimed to instill confidence in Riley, and were not his honest assessment, but it’s pretty fucking annoying to use the media to basically deceive us as a coaching effort.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

You mean in the same way that Tiger and Kobe used the media to apologize to their spouses?

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

He says it because it's true

If his wide receivers don’t drop five catchatable balls and Loggy doesn’t hopstep back into the end zone, he’s 19 for 26 with a touchdown and scored a huge upset on the road.

Riley is getting castigated unfairly for this game.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ll trust what you’re saying since you’ve probably re-watched the game more than any of us. My impression while I was watching the game was that his those 5 drops weren’t that catchable. And the other 7 that he missed were horribly over/underthrown.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sorry, man. Re-watch the tape yourself. I was trying to be a tough grader. Those 5 were catchable. I didn’t count Loggy or Vereen…which arguably could both be on the receiver.

That’s 20/26.

Two of those incompletions were deliberately thrown out of bounds because the O-line/TE whiffed on blocks and he had to get rid of it.

I’ll take that. This one wasn’t on Riley. He’s an easy target as the QB. But he’s significantly improved over last year. If he had better blocking and receivers that could win their one on ones, we wouldn’t be talking about this. I’m not giving him a free pass – there were three really bad balls in there, and I’d agree that he made some really bad decisions last week.

But from last week to this week, I’d call it a bounceback game. That’s mental toughness he never showed before.

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2010 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

Very little desire or time to rewatch the game, I’ll take your word for it. Playing on CGB while at work is one thing, but watching the game again is a whole different time commitment.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I know I’m a little late to this thread, but oh well.

I agree that Riley wasn’t the primary reason for the loss today, but at the same time you can’t just remove the receivers’ drops and say that he had a good game. Remember, he almost threw a pick 6 too.

That makes his numbers 19 for 26 with TD and a pick 6. That would not necessarily win the game.

I’m not saying he was bad, just mediocre and you can’t put it all on the receivers either.

by jali on Sep 28, 2010 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

who knows about that throw to Loggy? I’m not sure if you can pin it on Riley or Loggy.

If we’re going to play the what if game, what if that AZ defender catches the easy pick 6 on the first throw of the game? Probably a totally different game, and certainly not for the better

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well I take issue with the idea that you think Tedford is lying to the media to shore up Riley. Because I’m pretty sure he’s telling the truth.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

You think that Riley is as good of a qb as Tedford has ever coached? Is that not what Tedford said? And it’s not like Tedford has ever treated the media with much respect.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Is that what he said?

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

yes, something like that.

Someone, find the quotes!

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

No, I think he was talking about Sweeney, and then he retracted his statement, then restated it, then redacted it again, then denied all knowledge of the affairs, then screamed YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH, YOU CAN’T PROVE ANYTHING, then stuck his fingers in his ears and went LALALALLALALALALA and then talked about execution or whatnot.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dude, you say the “right thing” to the media. We all know that whatever Tedford or whomever says to the media in no way relates to the actual truth of whatever exists in the real world. Riley could suck it up out there and Tedford would say “I was outcoached today! I can’t believe I suck so much!”

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

there’s a huge difference between saying that he and the team have confidence in Riley and saying he has as much confidence in Riley as any qb he’s ever coached.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

Managing the huddle, fixing alignments, reading defenses, adjusting playcalls, improved accuracy, quicker decisions. He’s remarkably better than the past few years.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

Remarkably better relative to himself :)

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

So I was with you on the o-line observations, and the challenge with developing a strong o-line and how long that can take. My biggest concern has been the rotating of guys across the different positions, and how we don’t have guys with set “homes” on the line. Having said that, the announcers seem to think that’s actually a good thing, because it shows they’re smart and know the plan.

Surprisingly, I agree with Riley’s game-management for the most part. He seems to be reading the defenses a little better. That said, he’s a fcking senior and after doing this for 4 years in the system, he should have been at this point 1-2 seasons ago.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of course I use words like “horribly” that are horribly subjective.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

reply fail…..ugh

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is also on Riley. He didn’t have the proper work ethic and attitude until recently.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

And we haven’t recruited anyone who had the proper work ethic and attitude in that time? Scary!

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

As I attempted to state in what I thought was going into the roundtable, but it appears did not get put in, was that Riley was making his reads on Saturday. He was making the proper progressions. He just never pulled the trigger most of the time. Perhaps it is indicative of a great Arizona pass D, I do not know.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

or lack of confidence?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t believe we’re qualified to know unless we have gametape of the secondary. Unfortunately no such cameras exist.

But I’d tend to give credit to Arizona’s pass defense for locking down Marvin Jones and making sure Calvin and Ross don’t gain separation on them.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s what a pick 6 and almost pick 6 will do to a QB.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

true

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

yeah...

we still have trouble getting to the line on time – we’ve had to take timeouts/delay of game penalties in every game. I do not see the improvement in accuracy and certainly not in quicker decisions. I don’t see much, if any, improvement in reading defenses.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Really dude?

You know football. I can’t believe you don’t think Riley is better than last year. He’s completing 60% of his passes. He’s going through his reads. He makes good decisions on the run.The balls are sometimes a little bit higher than they should be, but that’s Riley. He’s a perfectly competent game manager.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

how’s the completion rate look against Nevada and Arizona, or any other competitive team that Riley’s faced?

No, it’s not all on Riley. A lot of it is on the oline. Was he sacked several times?

What is on Riley is accuracy and not bouncing the ball on key 3rd downs when the dude’s WIDE OPEN.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Riley actually completed 60% of his passes against Nevada. A respectable number.

If he didn’t have so many drops from his receivers, he’d have a similar number against Arizona.

Riley was fading away on that pass to Vereen. A difficult ball for him to complete.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was actually refering to the Keenan Allen pass…

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think he made a bad decision. He should’ve run with the ball and picked up the first.

That’s a very difficult throw to make moving forward and angling away from the receiver.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

For the life of me I can’t figure out why Riley didn’t take off on manageable 3rd downs once he had gone through his progressions and stepped up in the pocket. There was one play in which he one hopped Calvin on maybe a 3rd and 6. The distance is really semantics because if he took off he had a healthy 10 yards (which was probably comparable to what the completion would have picked up) before any UA defender could converge. I’m not saying that Riley SHOULD have missed this throw, but let’s be realistic of our expectations and rely more on high percentage plays to get him in a rhythm in a conference road game. This was in UA territory and killed a drive with decent momentum (either late 1st quarter or early 2nd). If he’s got the balls to risk a number one ranking with his legs then dare I ask, “what’s the hold up Kev?”

"I struck out Mike Schmidt in an exhibition game. Struck his ass right out."
- Morris Buttermaker

by BearOnTheBorder on Sep 27, 2010 10:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps if you were there, you had a better shot, but from the terrible terrible TV production it was tough to tell anything. Did he have open space? Or was it a mirage that woul disappear quickly when a fleet footed defender barreled towards riley?

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was behind the North end zone so I did see every play develop. Receivers were running routes early in the game that opened up the middle of the field. Elmore and Brooks got good pressure at the beginning of the game and Riley did a much better job than normal at stepping up in the pocket. However, I never like the odds of him making an accurate pass when the play has elapsed beyond the time the receivers have completed their routes (the Calvin play he had to break off his route and come back to the ball while Riley made an off-balance throw). Sure, their middle backers would have converged but Vereen had given the team chances to convert manageable third downs throughout the game so Riley could have used his feet a couple of times to move the chains. But these chances presented themselves in the first half only and I’m more concerned with whether or not he’ll be more willing to use his feet as conference play moves forward.

"I struck out Mike Schmidt in an exhibition game. Struck his ass right out."
- Morris Buttermaker

by BearOnTheBorder on Sep 27, 2010 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is indeed the right observation: Riley does better on planned plays than when things break down, has to improvise and/or he tries to make creative throws. Bad Riley emerges when he tries to force things to happen.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 28, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

No confidence.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 28, 2010 6:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kodiak mentioned that perhaps he was coached not to run because of the speed of the UA’s backers. I think that makes sense but I also think that Riley can use his judgment to know when to go into a slide. I mean, these backers aren’t exactly Burfict x 4 out there but as a precaution (for the rest of the season) maybe it’s in the Bears’s best interest to protect Riley at all costs. And my mistake, the pass in question was apparently intended for Marvin Jones, not Calvin, in case you watch the game again and want to identify it.

"I struck out Mike Schmidt in an exhibition game. Struck his ass right out."
- Morris Buttermaker

by BearOnTheBorder on Sep 28, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t see the competent game manager. I see a guy who does not get us up to the line of scrimmage on time an inordinate amount of time, as I stated above. He has thrown some really awful passes, like the pick-6. That is the absolute antithesis of a competent game manager. He is completing 60% of his passes, but we’ve faced one good defense and three shitty ones. He does not make good decisions on the run – when he’s rolling out, he has one guy to throw it to, and when he’s scrambling (as you noted in this post), he probably should have run with it instead of throwing it. And I’m sorry, from Jeff Tedford and a 5th year senior qb, I expect more than just a competent game manager, especially when I do not agree that he is one.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps our expectations are different

But after Riley’s struggles last season this is light-years ahead of where he’s been. He’s not perfect, but I don’t expect him to be.

And some of those issues (particularly with rollouts) might be with Ludwig going back to the same plays over and over again. AZ defense was getting smart by the end and keying in on those plays, and making it harder for Riley to find open receivers.

Also, Nevada’s defense could actually be good. Holding BYU to 17 points and shutting them down in the second half in Provo is mighty impressive.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was actually using the rollouts as a positive – he throws the ball well there. My guess is that’s it’s because he only has one receiver so he’s not thinking about where to go with it. Certainly AZ was snuffing that play out at the end, but that’s not on Riley.

I guess I have two sets of expectations. One is of a senior qb in Tedford’s offense, and that standard is clearly not being met. The second is of Riley himself, and I agree that we shouldn’t expect much given what we’ve seen in the past. I think Tedford’s preseason remarks, where he compared Riley favorably with his best qbs in the past, was disingenuous and ratcheted up my expectations.

I just don’t see him being “light years” ahead of where he’s been. I think he’s improved marginally in some areas and very minimally in others.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes, like when he scrambled on 3rd and 5, ignored the 10 yards of open green grass in front of him, and short hopped it to his receiver?

Kidding. Don’t pay attention to me I’m just a smart-ass not adding any value today. Except for the stats I pulled on field goal kickers, now that’s value-added reporting.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I discussed that elsewise, but I dont think that 10 yards of open grass means youll easily get the 5 yard pick up. Riley is not the fastest QB out there and a D player who is 11 yards out could get to him before he gets to the first down line.

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

If Tedford said it, I'm sure he believes it

And I do see a lot of things mechanically and mentally that suggest he’s improved to a high degree.

I do believe your expectations are screwing with your outlook. Perhaps you expected Riley to come out gangbusting. But I believe you’re looking at Riley through Aaron Rodgers-goggles, which is unfair to him.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think most of us are looking at him through Sean Canfield goggles.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

thank you.

Honestly, I know that expecting Canfield or Nate circa 2006 or Matt fucking Moore is unrealistic at this point. Which is completely ridiculous, because you would think Jeff Tedford would be able to get that level of performance out of an elite 11 5th year senior qb. But that’s not what we have.

Mechanically…I see Riley revert to pretty shitty mechanics whenever he’s pressured or in a pressure situation (like we’re trailing). Mentally, I see a really hesitant, not very poised qb.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Elite 11 QBs are 50-50 to pan out at best...

But whatever. We disagree on this. Having watched the tape, I see a much more efficient and mature Kevin Riley (and only saw him regress for a bit after the pick-six in Nevada). I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s good.

You seem to only see the negative side of his play and not pay attention to the good things he brings. This is not something I agree with, although you’ll probably find a lot of people who agree with you. Perhaps you’re right, but we’ll see how the rest of the season turns out for him. I have a feeling you may be underestimating him.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope I am understimating him

I think everyone defending him is giving way too much credit to the teams we’ve played. Davis, Colorado, and Nevada do not have good defenses. Against Arizona, he posted 4.4YPA. This conforms with what I am seeing on the field. I really do not see a good qb. I see a pretty average one with flashes of awful.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

Avi, you say elite 11 QBs are 50-50 to pan out, but Tedford has recruited how many QBs in the last 5 years and none of them has panned out?

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

The law of averages implies that one would have panned out at least.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Longshore was about to pan out. Riley is a competent D-1 QB to me (I’m sure most people will disagree with me). Mansion was recruited for the spread. Sweeney is the weakest of the QBs. Bridgford is promising, but he got injured. He might have a shot to take it next season.

Too early to tell on Hinder and Boehm and Kline. But I think we’re ending our rut of average-mediocre QB play sooner than you think.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Longshore is a tough one. Clearly, injuries derailed his 07 season, but he was a total headcase in 08. Riley…yeah.

I hope you are right regarding the next generation of cal qbs.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Longshore certainly seemed fine until his injury in 2007, and after that he was never the same. I’ll buy that it simply derailed his progress.

by sycasey on Sep 27, 2010 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think he was ever fully healthy in 08 either. Stupid Oregon.

by LeonPowe on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

I actually thought Nasty Nate was a bit off to start 07. He was not as sharp as he was in 06.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Nate was a bit “off” to start 2007, at least as compared to is best 2006 efforts, though if you look at his numbers pre- and post-injury from that season, it’s like night and day. A solid, efficient QB turned into an interception machine.

by sycasey on Sep 28, 2010 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

absolutely agree

my point wasn’t that the injury didn’t affect him (obviously it did), it was simply that he was more accurate in 06 than the beginning of 07

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 28, 2010 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

I like Kline. I’ve been following him just about everywhere I can find him (oh man, that was a bit creepy) and what I’m most impressed with is his attitude and maturity. Obviously he has raw ability but so does every other 3+Star recruit. Quality young men that undoubtedly will succeed as a student-athlete at an elite academic and athletic university I’d presume become recruiting priorities. More so, those that exude great leadership and the ability to be a team player (on and off the field) is what separates the cream of the crop – or Zach Kline in this case. His mechanics look great for a Junior first-year starter and it appears Tedford is already a mentor of his (both Danville residents). SRVHS has been a QB manufacturer as of late too. To seal the deal the guy would rather play for Cal than get paid to play for $C. 2013 is our year, men!! :-/

"I struck out Mike Schmidt in an exhibition game. Struck his ass right out."
- Morris Buttermaker

by BearOnTheBorder on Sep 27, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

He kind of reminds me of ex-A’s closer Octavio Dotel.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

A closer that gives up a game winning homer every 5th time he pitches? “BUT THOSE OTHER FOUR TIMES HE WAS GREAT!….”

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy

by Spazzy Mcgee on Sep 27, 2010 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

That and he has the tendency to throw wild fast balls.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 28, 2010 6:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

yeah....

What’s a QB to do when the playcall doesn’t get in on time? Should he make up his own play? How about players that line up in the wrong place and the QB has to fix that? Do you not remember 2008 against USC where the WR alignment screwed us and Riley didn’t catch that? Probably not.

No improvement in accuracy or reading defenses? LOL

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

The playcalling issue is interesting. It’s impossible for us to know if it’s the coaches not getting the call in on time or Riley not getting everyone up to the line. Could be both. And I absolutely remember the non-td against sc in 08 (when you don’t score a td against them for two years, it stands out).

I do not see the improvement in reading defenses. I see the same hesitancy and tentativeness I have seen in Riley since his sophomore year. I do agree that his accuracy has improved on short passes, but not by a ton. His accuracy on deep passes is pretty terrible, or did you not see the Nevada game?

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

Riley is a short guy. I don’t think he can air it out any further than 40-50 yards.

And I believe that hesitancy and tenativeness is partly on the receivers, who are constantly getting blanketed and not getting separation. We tend to forget how Keenan Allen not being healthy hampers this unit.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last year Riley would throw too early and it’d go to nowhere. Or he’d just air it out. This year he’s throwing it away or surveying the field and seeing no one, so he holds onto the ball. It’s hard to get the full picture, but just based on my early observations, that’s what I’m seeing.

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by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 27, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

fair enough

that is not at all what I saw against Nevada, when his receivers had plenty of separation. The deep passes I’m referring to aren’t 70 yard bombs, they’re the passes to a wide open Keenan Allen and a wide open Isi Sofele in the end zone. He held the ball way too long against Nevada and he had plenty of open receivers.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’d agree. He was definitely shell-shocked against NV.

Not what I saw against AZ. He was making his progessions and generally made good decision. But, the receivers were often covered. Look at his drive at the beginning of the 4th quarter. Snap. Good pocket. Within 2 seconds, he went through 3 progressions and found Calvin open. I’m okay with that. He doesn’t do that every time…but I don’t think any of us expect him to be Drew Brees or ARod.

Old Toothwrangler

by Kodiak on Sep 27, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Of course we don’t expect him to be those guys. And as I’ve said many times, I could not tell at all what was going on down field against AZ because of the shitty CSN cameras. I think 4.4 YPA says a lot, but perhaps that is not the whole story.

The really disappointing thing about him being shell-shocked against Nevada was that he was shell-shocked. Again, I didn’t expect him to suddenly become an accurate passer, because he just isn’t (and I do expect Tedford to have an accurate qb once every 3 years). What I do expect from a 5th year senior qb is to be poised, confident, not pick up a bunch of delay of game penalties/burn timeouts, etc. A 5th year senior qb should not just go to shit when the pressure is on. That does not bode well.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

CBKWit from a few posts above: I do not see the improvement in accuracy and certainly not in quicker decisions.

My Response:

CBKWit right above: I do agree that his accuracy has improved on short passes, but not by a ton.

So we agree. His accuracy has improved. Though I do agree with you that his deep balls have been pretty bad this year.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

You’re right, I do think his accuracy has improved on short passes, but I don’t see this night and day improvement that other people are seeing. I mean, he’s still bouncing balls on the turf, throwing way too high, and that to me does not scream “look at how much better he’s gotten!” So I agree, he has improved somewhat on his short-intermediate passing, but again, I expect a lot more out of Tedford’s passing offense than that.

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

I read almost zero pre-season hype this year because time and again, it has proven to be BS. It helps keep my expectations in check.

I’m not trying to make excuses for Riley but hoping he would have a Canfield or Foles like transformation was not a longshot. While we’re not seeing a complete transformation of Riley like we all hoped for, we are seeing a much improved version.

I don’t think Cal is going to see a “Tedford passing offense” until he gets a really good QB in there. Until then, try to minimize how much Riley throws and rely on the run game. Wait, we don’t have a consistent run game either. There are problems in Strawberry Canyon.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

WHY DID WE HIRE JIMMY RAYE TO BE OUR OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR?!??!?

CGB's Jimmy Carter

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

exactly

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by CBKWit on Sep 27, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

I agree with all those calls. Going up 9-3 was important — getting something rather than nothing has huge psychological value, not to mention that it set us up to win the game with another field goal that would have made it 12-3 and totally out of reach for the Wildcats — if only we hit that last field goal.

Tedford put us in position to win that game, and his strategy would have worked if we hit the chip shot of a field goal.

by Monica's Dad on Sep 27, 2010 11:26 AM PDT reply actions  

Tedford forever

I’m not going to turn on our Glorious Leader; even if mass starvation occurs from his policies.

All Hail the Almighty Tedford!

I find the three major administrative problems on a campus are sex for the students, athletics for the alumni, and parking for the faculty. -- Clark Kerr

by CalBear2007 on Sep 27, 2010 11:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Call me a sunshine pumper if you want

But I agreed 100% with all the calls Tedford and co made. In terms of play calling I think the staff did a brilliant job

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 27, 2010 11:31 AM PDT reply actions  

Were were in the game for the entire game, so I have a hard time going full-tilt gloom and doom. Still, it’s getting frustrating.

Today's the day the California Golden Bears have their picnic.

by zoonews on Sep 27, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

A world without a healthy Keenan Allen, a dominant Oline, and a QB who can’t hit water if he falls out of a boat is a world I don’t want to live in.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:32 AM PDT reply actions  

Maybe he falls out of a boat onto the land? Or onto another smaller boat?

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by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Of if he’s on Brock Mansion’s party yacht, he simply falls off the upper deck onto the lower deck. Mystery solved.

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

Falls out of a boat into the soul-draining vortex that is Cal Football?

I find the three major administrative problems on a campus are sex for the students, athletics for the alumni, and parking for the faculty. -- Clark Kerr

by CalBear2007 on Sep 27, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Wait, you can’t live without a QB who can’t hit water if he falls out of a boat? So if you had a QB who could hit water if he fell out of a boat you’d die?

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’s confused.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 27, 2010 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

BUT YOU WERE THE ONE WHO WROTE THE SENTENCE ITSELF!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 27, 2010 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

This was a nice comparison, rec’d! Also, regardless of how UCLA won, they had a grind-it-out game much like our game against Arizona, and if anything I have a lot more confidence in our own defense’s ability to play this kind of game. Last possession wins on Oct 16th!

Drinking the Kool-Aid. Pumping the sunshine. Livin' the dream. Go Bears!

by dballisloose on Sep 27, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Don’t ever overlook an opponent

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Mack Brown didn’t get that memo and had Texas looking ahead to this week’s matchup with Oklahoma.

by Cali49a on Sep 27, 2010 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can't see any correlation whatsoever between political conservatism and conservative playcalling

Whatever my opinions of political conservatism, it is not “just plain wrong” in the way that failing to go for it on 4th and 1 at the opponent’s six yard line is. Someone was complaining that Tedford only had 10 or 15 seconds to make the call. Hey, guess what— it’s a 10-second decision. It’s really not even remotely complicated. People have done the math.

I don’t think a college team should ever not go for it on 4th and 1 unless they’re inside their own 30, have a huge lead, or can kick a field goal that will tie the game or give them the lead.

"We don't want our people to be preoccupied with seminude, crazy men jumping up and down who are chasing an inflated object," said Sheik Mohamed Osman Arus, head of operations for the Hizbul Islam insurgent group.

by PaulThomas on Sep 27, 2010 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Last drive and 2 more cents . . .

47 yards on 9 running plays (one pass play was inc.), used up 4:21 of clock and 3 AZ time outs, plus the 40 yard FG would have iced the game. So, prior to the last series, Cal had gained 42 yards, all on 6 running plays. The running game was on.

Had the drive been a mix of run and pass, keeping AZ off balance, then I’d agree with the people who say we should have done a PA pass. However, the OL was having great success. Had Riley thrown an incomplete pass, leaving Cal 45+ yards away on the FG attempt while leaving AZ with a TO, people would have wanted Tedford’s head for not running. The last drive was fine in my book.

My biggest issues were with Riley for not running for 1st downs twice when they were there for the taking, one lead to the 19 yard Anger punt giving AZ their best field position and their FG, the other would have given the offense 1st and goal, instead of the missed 33 yard FG attempt. It’s something I’d expect a 5th year senior with years of experience to be able to see and take advantage of.

"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin

by The Wisdom Cow on Sep 27, 2010 3:14 PM PDT reply actions  

Blamed but reasonable

I voted that Tedford gets alot fo the blame. Which is true because he is the head coach. This is not a negative commment simply a fact that he created the game plan. If we won he would get the credit. I still believe in him. I still hope he is our coach for the next 10 years.

And remember "Go Cal"

by 00Bear on Sep 28, 2010 8:38 AM PDT reply actions  

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