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Around SBN: Pacquiao vs Bradley: Potential Undercard Fighters

Re-Opening Old Wounds, Revisiting 2009 Cal @ Oregon Part IV: Passing to Dickson

In case you missed the previous posts in this series, you may find them here: Part I: The DL Zone Read.  Part II: A Defensive StopPart III: Baited & Busted.

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In my last post, I gave a breakdown of what happened during Oregon tight end Dickson's first touchdown: a busted coverage.  Continuing my search for what went wrong during this game which allowed Dickson to have so many catches, I decided to look at every single catch by Dickson during this game

What did I find? Let's take a look.

Dickson's Second Catch

F1_medium

Above is the play where Dickson had his second catch of the game.  Oregon's offense has 12 personnel on the field (2 WRs, 1 TEs, 1 RB).  They have put both TEs to the left side of the formation, and both WRs to the right side of the formation as twins.  The RB is to the open side of the field, as well as the weak side of the formation.

Star-divide

 

F2_medium

Where's Dickson on this play?  He's the TE off the line of scrimmage.  I've shown him in the picture above with his number, #83.

 

F3_medium

Oregon motions Dickson across the formation towards the twin WRs.

 

F4_medium

Here is a picture of the play just prior to the snap.  The first thing to notice is that the offensive line is sliding its protection to the right, towards the twin WRs, and the QB is rolling out to his right. 

 

F5_medium

The routes run by the Oregon receivers are simple.  The outside twin WR runs a "go/streak/fly" (see footnote below) route "deep comeback" route with an outside release.  The inside twin WR runs a skinny post down the seam (see footnote below) "deep out".  Underneath them, Dickson will run a flat route. 

[footnote: Upon further review of more game film, it has come to my attention that the routes run by the outside and slot wide receivers are a "deep comeback" and a "deep out," respectively.  When I originally watched the film of these earlier plays, I could not see the WRs because they were off the screen, and made a guess as to their routes.  However, the offense ran the same play in the 3rd quarter and the ABC video feed offered a better view of the play where the receivers seemed to be running a deep comeback, and a deep out.  And actually, these routes make more sense as since they are in the direction of the QB's rollout and are more conducive to the offensive play than a "go"  or "post" route.]

 

F6_medium

Oregon's QB sees Dickson open (green vision cone).

 

F7_medium

And passes him the ball (yellow dot) for an easy 7 yard gain or so.

 

F8_medium

Before we can talk about why the Oregon play succeeded, we also need to view what the Cal defense was doing.  So above is the picture of the play just after the snap.  What's going on here?

 

F9_medium 

First off, you should note that Cal has sent three defenders towards the QB on pass rush.

 

F10_medium

That leaves 8 defenders in pass coverage.  I've shown the defenders above with their respective abbreviations.  Note that one of the Cal safeties is off the screen to the far top left.

 

F11_medium

Cal has dropped three defenders into deep coverage, and has five defenders in underneath zones.  What do we have here?  We seem to have a Tampa 2 variant. 

This defense is a Tampa 2 because defensive coordinator Bob Gregory is dropping the MLB into the deep middle 1/3rd of the field -- which is the determining factor for identifying a Tampa 2 defense.

The typical Tampa 2 defense has four underneath zone defenders (with four pass rushers).  However, on this play, Gregory has utilized five underneath zones.  This is what makes this play a slight variant on the Tampa 2. 

Do you see what happened now that you know the offensive receiver routes and the defensive coverage? 

 

F5_medium

Let's go back to the picture of the Oregon receiver routes.  As you can see, the twin WR routes are running deep routes (deep comeback and deep out), designed to run-off and push back the coverage, so that the TE may come underneath for an easy and unimpeded catch.  That's exactly what happened here. 

Oregon's offensive coordinator, Mark Helfrich, is simply stretching the zones.  He's specifically targeting the outer-most underneath zone defender to the side of the twin WRs.  He's putting that defender in a bind.  That defender is forced to drop back in his zone to get proper depth and help maintain his spacing underneath the deep WR routes behind him; however if he gets too deep then he allows for an easy and uncontested catch by the TE (Dickson) underneath him.

So that's what happened on this particular play, and Dickson's second catch.

 

 

Dickson's Fourth Catch

Now, let's look at what happened on another Dickson catch.  This time we're going to look at Dickson's fourth catch of the game. 

G1_medium

Above is the pre-snap picture (I apologize for the slight ghosting of the Oregon cheerleader, but the stupid ABC coverage didn't fade to the play early enough for a clean enough picture of the pre-snap picture prior to the snap).  Oregon has 12 personnel out on the field again (2 WRs, 2 TEs, 1 RB). 

The pre-snap formation put two TEs to the offense's right (one of the TEs has already gone into motion in the above picture).  The two WRs are in twins to the offense's left.  The RB is to the side of the twin WRs and open side of the field.

Notice anything else?  I sure hope so.  This is the same formation as the previous play (Dickson's second catch)!  The formation is flipped, but it's the same formation!  Interesting!

 

G2_medium

Where's Dickson in this pre-snap picture?  Well, he is the TE off the line of scrimmage (LOS).  I've shown his pre-snap position with his number, #83, in the picture above (although he has already gone into motion in the screen shot above). 

Again, Dickson is in the same spot on this play as he was when Dickson caught his previous pass.  Interesting!

 

G3_medium

Prior to the snap, the Oregon offense puts Dickson into motion across the formation towards the twin WRs.  Hey wait, that's what happened in the last play too!  Interesting!

 

G4_medium

Here's the post-snap picture.  Again, the first thing to notice is Oregon sliding its protection over towards the twin WRs as the QB rolls out in the same direction.  The Oregon RB pass blocks towards the direction of the roll. 

Hey, wait!  That's exactly what happened in the previous play too!  Yup!

 

G7

What are the routes that the Oregon receivers (WRs, and TEs) are running?  The outside twin WR runs a deep down the sidelines on his "go/fly/streak" route.  The inside twin WR runs his skinny post.  (see above footnote in italics) The outside WR runs a deep comeback, and the slot WR runs a deep out.  The TE (Dickson) runs a flat route underneath the WRs.

Hey!  That's the very same routes...

YES.

Those are the very same routes.  This is the same formation. 

THIS IS THE EXACT SAME PLAY AS THE PREVIOUS PLAY. 

Heck, we might as well name this play.  Let's call it the "sprint out pass to Dickson in the flat" play.

 

G5_medium

Not surprisingly, Dickson is open, for an easy pass and catch (yellow dot is the ball).

 

G6_medium

Dickson makes the catch and gets an easy first down.

 

G7_medium

So what the heck was the defense doing on this play?  Anything different?  Did it know Oregon was running the same play again? 

I don't know if the defense knew that this was the exact same play, but let's take a look at what they're doing.  Above is the picture of the play just after the snap.

 

G8_medium

As we can see, Gregory has sent at least three pass rushers at the QB.  I say "at least" because the assignments on this play are not clear-cut.  There are definitely three dedicated pass rushers on this play.  They are the three bottom blue arrows. 

A Cal LB (#9 - Young) seems to be on a hug assignment -- meaning that if the Oregon RB releases on a route, then the defender will play man coverage against the RB, alternatively if the RB stays in to pass block, then the defender will pass rush.  When you watch the video of this play, you'll see the LB sort of hesitate to read the RB before deciding to rush the passer.  I've shown this hug with a yellow line. 

Also, Cal defensive coordinator Gregory seems to have sent the safety (#29 - Ezeff) at the QB.  The safety begins to rush the QB, but then pulls up, once he realizes the Oregon QB is about to pass the ball over his head to the TE.  Thus, the safety abandons his pass rush, and once the ball is in the air on its way to the TE, he turns around and begins pursuing the TE.

 

G9_medium

What are the other defenders doing?  Well, Cal has sent five defenders at the QB, meaning that there are six defenders in coverage.  Cal has dropped three of the defenders into deep coverage (2 CBs, 1 S), and has three defenders in underneath zones (3 LBs).  Thus, this play appears to have been some sort of safety blitz, cover 3, with three underneath zones.

 

G10_medium

I've shown the underneath zones in the picture above.

 

G11_medium

Unfortunately for the defensive playcall did not match up well against this offensive play.  With only three underneath zones, there are big holes between the zones, as well as along the sidelines.  I've shown the big hole to the outside where an offense can attack with only three underneath zones with the big green area.  And of course, this is exactly where Dickson was and made the catch. 

To view the video of this play in its entirety, click on the link below (it will open a Youtube video in a separate window which I have set to start at the appropriate time):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVnjYGD_ewE#t=0m28s

 

Conclusion:

These two plays are the first of many, which demonstrate how Oregon's TE, Dickson, had such a great day.  As we saw in the first play, Oregon was simply stretching zones and hitting the TE (Dickson) on a short pass underneath the stretched zone.  In the second play, the same play was executed against a different zone defense. 

Should Cal defensive coordinator Bob Gregory foreseen that the same play would be called and executed?  Well, every defensive coordinator knows that offenses repeat plays.  However, it's important to keep in mind, that the defensive plays are called before the offense lines up in its formation.  The defensive play calls are usually made only upon seeing the offensive personnel group.

So when Gregory called the defensive playcall in the second play, all he knew was that Oregon was in 12 personnel.  He did not know that the offense would line up in the same formation or run the same play.  At the most, he may have only realized that the offense was going to run the same play until after seeing the offense line up and just prior to the snap. 

Now that this play ("sprint out pass to Dickson in the flat") has been called twice -- in only the first 20 minutes of the game nonetheless -- this is something that Gregory ought to be on the look-out for.

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Thanks Hydro. Love these posts. It really helps to answer why Cal got lost so badly.

Truth or cougar: Cal would have done much better playing man coverage.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 6:31 AM PDT reply actions  

Well, considering it would have been pretty damned hard for them to have done any worse …

Careful, man. There's a beverage here!

by SoCal Oski on Sep 1, 2010 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m actually surprised they only scored 42…

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

It does seem like we should have switched it up a bit, though I do have a couple concerns. First, Oregon seems to use unbalanced formations pretty consistently, so it’s going to be real easy for the QB to identify man defense pre-snap. Second, even in a man D….who’s going to cover Dickson?

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

and OLB and S? A 3rd S? Cal was lining up one 1 CB on 1 WR, and sorta kinda 1 OLB on 1 WR (who would likely get S help) and, I suppose, an MLB on a motioning player like Dickson. Meanwhile a perfectly good CB is left to cover the 2nd TE and perhaps a RB, and another OLB and S are on that side of the field, too. The play where a pass is likely not going has a 3:2 defense:offense ratio. In this Tampa 2 zone thing, it was very easy for Masoli to read where the coverage would be iffy.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

I’m just not sure if any of Cal’s personnel was actually capable of covering Dickson in man.

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dickson is such a tall player, I’d want to put a tall defender on him. That would mean either a tall, strong, physical CB or S, or a very athletic linebacker who has good coverage skills. I’m not entirely sure Cal has anyone that fits that description.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s pretty much my exact thought, too. I don’t think CB’s would have the size to cover him, and I don’t think we had a LB/S with enough cover skills and athleticism. Bad matchup….sometimes it happens.

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

At the very least, playing man on TE.

by sec119 on Sep 1, 2010 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

That does present the question of, do you respect him as a position, or a player? Dickson often lined up out wide as a receiver in a trips set, and would run any route.

it’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-L-W-A-R-M-A-N-D-F-U-Z-Z-Y"

by JShufelt on Sep 1, 2010 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, it’s easy to say that man might have worked better considering what we’ve seen thus far are zone defenses getting beat, but it’s possible that playing more man coverage might have worked better. However, to play effective man coverage against Oregon, all 11 defenders must be extremely athletic and good in man coverage — you’re basically playing raw 11 on 11 football.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not only that, I feel like it’d be difficult to even win the 1 on 1 man matchup with Dickson. Athletic, good receiving tight ends can be killer to man to man. I don’t see who on defense would have been able to line up with him, follow his motion, and cover his sprint the sideline and have the size to make a play.

If anything, I could see benefit to playing zone and rolling coverage to whichever side Oregon overloads, especially if Dickson is on that side, to counteract Oregon receivers overloading symmetric zones. Obviously, it’s easy to say that after seeing their play call, not during the game.

by jali on Sep 1, 2010 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Deep Coverage

Why were we giving so much respect to Masoli as a deep pass threat? He had been pretty unsucessfull passing up to that point in the season. I guess this is what they mean by “keep the offense in front of you”?? Very interesting to have it broken down like this, but old wounds never fully heal.

by Bears07 on Sep 1, 2010 7:54 AM PDT reply actions  

I really don’t think we’re playing as deep as it looks – check out the 3rd part in this series – you might not see it in either of these plays as they’re short, quick passes to underneath routes, but in the 3rd part the receivers get to the deep guys level and it looks like their depth is a whole lot more appropriate….

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

this isn't considered deep?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

As compared to this?

Which then lead to this:

I mean, the receivers really can get to the second layer of coverage. That they went underneath on the play we’re talking about doesn’t mean you don’t have to cover the deeper routes….

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well, perhaps Bears07 means “deep” as in the number of deep defenders rather than the actual depth of the defenders. I don’t want to get into too much detail in this comment and ruin a future post in this series, but Cal did play a lot of 3-deep, and Tampa 2 this game putting a lot of defenders deep instead of Cover 2 or 2-deep. So if we understand “deep” to mean the number of defenders, Bears07 has a point — and I will address that point later on in another post.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

Why were we giving so much respect to Masoli as a deep pass threat?

Even though Masoli had been poor up to this game, you have to respect the deep pass. Oregon will bait you with its run and playaction, then pass over the defense biting down on fakes or the run. So the point is that Gregory was defending against the possibility of pass, even though in prior games Oregon hadn’t been able to pass deep that well.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve noticed a theme so far – all the plays you’ve looked at have gone away from Syd’s side of the field….

Seems to me like the CB in the first play should have been more aggressive on the underneath route, since we have a cover 3 (really a Tampa 2, but they’re essentially the same) behind him. He shouldn’t be too worried about the 2 guys getting behind him, right?

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 8:15 AM PDT reply actions  

not only are they avoiding Syd, but they’ve designed plays that feature their best players as the primary receivers going away from Syd. In game adjustment, anyone?

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

In game adjustment, anyone?

Sigh.

by sec119 on Sep 1, 2010 9:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

In game adjustment, anyone?

I think most defensive coordinators make their in-game adjustments at half time. I think all the plays I have covered thus far are from the first half of the game. Therefore, we have not seen any plays from the second half of the game where there might have been in-game adjustments.

Am I going to look at plays from the second half of the game? Yes.

Did Gregory make adjustments in the second half? This is the million dollar question. Everyone thinks the answer is “no” merely based on the results of the game. However, such a conclusion contains a presumption. The presumption that no adjustments are made when the defense continues to give up points. Is that a proper assumption to make? No. Nevertheless, despite that assumption being improper, it doesn’t necessarily mean that Gregory did not make adjustments. I guess all ya’ll will just have to wait until my later post to see what I found in the second half of the game.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

but they were already down 22 points by halftime, and gave up 14 in the 3rd quarter.

http://espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=292692483

The “#6” by “Cal” still stings.

"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark

by carp on Sep 1, 2010 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’ve noticed a theme so far – all the plays you’ve looked at have gone away from Syd’s side of the field….

This is a really good observation. This could be due to the fact that either (1) Oregon scouted Cal, saw where Gregory was placing Syd on the field, and schemed some plays away from Syd; or (2) mere coincidence and because Syd plays on the strong side of the formation.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

I call bias! Don’t forget about selective sampling. You’ve been looking at plays that were successful for Oergon. We all know no play at Syd is going to be successful! ;)

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Seems to me like the CB in the first play should have been more aggressive on the underneath route, since we have a cover 3 (really a Tampa 2, but they’re essentially the same) behind him. He shouldn’t be too worried about the 2 guys getting behind him, right?

Well, the CB needs to get some depth and carry the vertical receivers a bit up the field. I know I’ve shown his zone fairly shallow in the photoshopped pictures, but that was merely for the effect of seeing the Tampa 2 zone. I think the CB played his depth fine. If he starts playing too shallow, he could start giving up the deep passes down the field to the WRs running the deep out and the comeback.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Who else can possibly stop that play, then? It seems to me if he was really playing proper depth, then “proper depth” means giving them that pass every time….

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

A safety blitz where the safety never goes past the los. Seems our players were playing tentatively and slow.

by Dajo9 on Sep 1, 2010 8:19 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah, it looked like Ezeff really didn’t know what to do on the 4th catch

o=========<| BBBBBBEARZZZZZZ
May I offer you a glass of sunshine?

by Thoroughbred on Sep 1, 2010 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

In the safety’s defense it looks like he stopped the rush when it was obvious Masoli was going to Dickson and the S was doing some damage control in getting to Dickson.

Now maybe he should’ve been faster?

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 1, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

Some great analysis

I just wanted to introduce myself. I write for SBN LA, usually hang out on the Dodger board, but I’m a Cal grad, so I’ll probably pop in here during the season. So excited for things to get rolling!

Go Bears let’s beat the Aggies

by Josie Becker on Sep 1, 2010 8:47 AM PDT reply actions  

Ugh, we don’t need anymore Dodgers fans!

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

We need more women. They could be Kobe fans for all I care.

Nice to see you around Josie!

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 1, 2010 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Welcome to CGB, fellow Dodger fan and Cal grad! Don’t mind Missing Barry; he roots for that silly baseball team in San Francisco. The rest of us hope to see you around here more often! There are several other Dodger fans here as well. It’s actually quite evenly split between Dodgers, Giants, and A’s, though there are probably a few more A’s fans if anything.

by atomsareenough on Sep 1, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

Welcome to CGB< Josie Becker. Happy to see any and all Cal grads around. Go Bears!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Sep 1, 2010 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions  

Tampa 2

I am a Duck fan but I am a long time fan of this blog. I read it because you do excellent work. I have to disagree with your characterization of the Tampa 2. The “2” in Tampa 2 refers to the fact that there are two safeties, each covering a deep half of the field. The middle linebacker (or in Cal’s case, either inside linebacker) may, on occasion “turn and run” with a TE, RB, or slot receiver if they run a deep seem. His will use inside leverage and play a step behind, effectively acting as the “underneath” part of the zone, while he still hopes to get “over the top” help from the safety. The ILB does not have a deep third, as you said. If he did, it would be a cover three (cover two means two deep, cover three means three deep, and so on). He would also play with “no one deeper than me” principle. I don’t have access to the video of this play, so I can’t tell you which defense Cal was in on this play, but I suspect that they were in fact in a cover 2, and the LB did not have the deep middle.

I have a quick question about your terminology. What is “12 Personnel?” One back, two TE’s? One back, 2 WR’s? I’m guessing here.

I would like to add one thing to your description of Oregon’s strategy. We are stretching the zone on this play, but it’s important to note that we are flooding it too. This is a common strategy when a QB rolls to one side. The offense will attempt to put all or most of it’s receivers at different levels, or depths, within one vertical zone. This forces defenders to make choices, and those choices tell the QB where to throw. It’s a fairly simple read for a QB. And difficult reads were not Masoli’s specialty.

Before you are too critical of Gregory for not recognizing the play by the formation, remember that Oregon runs at a break-neck pace most of the time. This makes recognition difficult, and reacting to any recognition nearly impossible at times.

by Pacten on Sep 1, 2010 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Tampa 2 illustrated

The difference would be we went into it from a 3-4 with 3 rushers and an extra man in underneath coverage.

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

He actually is absolutely correct with the Tampa 2.

The primary read for the MLB is the run first, after that, he drops to cover 1/3rd of the deep field. The Tampa 2 is, in more ways a Cover 3 than a Cover 2.

The “2” is because the concept is still from the Cover 2, and that it’s the two safeties that makes the defense work. They, in a way, still cover half the field, but they are responsible for only 1/3rd. This makes the middle of the field VERY well covered and very susceptible to interceptions. It also helps keep an offense in front of you for those quick, high percentage passes (Which is why it was invented in the first place, to counter west coast style offense, which was tearing up the NFL with YAC yards).

it’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-L-W-A-R-M-A-N-D-F-U-Z-Z-Y"

by JShufelt on Sep 1, 2010 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

Details

I don’t want to get bogged down in semantics, but your characterization is inaccurate. No DC in the world will tell you that in a Tampa 2 the safeties only cover 1/3 of the field. Not one. They cover half of the field each, without exception. The MLB does not immediately drop to the middle deep. If it were “essentially” a cover 3, he would immediately get depth at the snap and keep his shoulders relatively square to the LOS with eyes on the QB, just like the safties. Instead, he plays the short, usually middle zone, unless an inside receiver (TE, RB, or slot) releases down the middle seam. In this instance, the MLB runs with said receiver, usually with his back to the QB, with inside leverage, a half-step behind. He is trying to make it so the only way the ball can be completed is with a high-arcing pass over the top, where he would have help from one or both safeties.

This is not a cover 3. If no player releases from the middle to the deep middle, the MLB stays short (less than 20 yards deep). And he does not play deep technique. I understand that the Tampa 2 is not in every way identical to a classic cover 2. It is a variation. But no DC would tell you that it is more cover 3 than cover 2, and no DC would tell you that the safeties really only have deep 1/3 responsibilities. No sane person would depend on a MLB to matchup on a deep seam route with a receiver. Safety help is a necessity. I wish that Cal would leave the deep middle third to their MLB. Dickson is gone, but I would love to see him run stride for stride with LaMIke, Brandon Williams, or Josh Huff.

by Pacten on Sep 1, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

I hope anyone running stride for stride with LaMike has help

when he starts choking the first defender, the second one can break it up

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Sep 1, 2010 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for replying.

However, I’m not sure we are speaking on the same things here. I figured I was being pretty obvious with my gross overstatements. I said the safeties still cover half the field, but they are responsible for only 1/3rd. This is both right, and wrong. In the intermediate zone, the MLB is absolutely responsible for middle 1/3rd of the zone, but in the deep zone, there is no practical way the MLB can cover the deep 1/3rd.

Cal did run a Tampa 2 defense against Oregon. I think it’s pretty clear, however, Oregon identified it, and they ran routes and plays into the weakness of a Tampa 2 defense.

I apologize for my gross, albeit intentional, mis-characterization of the Tampa-2.

it’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-L-W-A-R-M-A-N-D-F-U-Z-Z-Y"

by JShufelt on Sep 1, 2010 12:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

Regarding the “12 Personnel sets” terminology.

This is what I gather (so please correct me if I’m wrong):
1 – RB
2 – TE

So since we have 5 OL (LT, LG, C, RG, RT) and 1 QB that equals 6 players. The “XY personnel” says X RB and Y TE. So 5 OL + 1 QB + 1 RB + 2 TE = 9 players. That leaves 2 WRs.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 1, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for your input.

Clearly, you are being very precise with your words, and I was not. I agree that the ILB does not exactly have a “deep third” coverage responsibility, because as you noted, then he would with with the “no one deeper than me” principle. However, his function in the Tampa 2 defense essentially becomes a deep third, and that is why I have referenced the ILB’s responsibilities as a deep third. Would DCs take issue with my use of the words “deep third” here? As you suggested, probably. But for the rest of us, I think it’s an adequate word to use as a reminder that the ILB should be getting depth.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Point taken, Hydro. Your work is appreciated.

by Pacten on Sep 1, 2010 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

You can view the video of the first play by following the link below, and downloading the Quicktime video:

http://www.efn.org/~msouther/Duck_Links/Oregon_Ducks_-_Complete_Games.html

The defensive play appears to be a Tampa 2 (it’s hard to tell because the TV coverage doesn’t show the entire down-field coverage); the ILB takes the slot WR up field.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

I have a quick question about your terminology. What is "12 Personnel?" One back, two TE’s? One back, 2 WR’s? I’m guessing here.

The first digit in the numbers corresponds to the number of runningbacks. The second digit in the numbers corresponds to the number of TEs. The number of WRs is implied. This is pretty universal numbering, however I have heard some teams switch up the ordering of the positions thus making the numbers different.

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by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

We are stretching the zone on this play, but it’s important to note that we are flooding it too.

Yes, this occurred to me too, and is something I should have brought up. Thanks for mentioning it.

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by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

I decided to look at every single catch by Dickson during this game.

Some people like to get tied up in chains and whipped in their bedroom. And even those people think HydroTech is too freaky! They don’t have the intestinal fortitude to roll with HydroTech!

But hey, whatever you do, Hydro, in the privacy of your own home is your own business. I don’t judge you.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

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by TwistNHook on Sep 1, 2010 11:17 AM PDT reply actions  

No appologies

No appologies are necessary, or accepted when posting screen caps of Oregon cheerleaders, no matter how ghostly.

by jfwells on Sep 1, 2010 12:29 PM PDT reply actions  

Where's the pass rush??

The fundamental problem with our defense in 2009 was the lack of pass rush. In the examples given thus far, I haven’t seen anyone putting any pressure on Masoli.
The ‘man’ versus ‘zone’ coverage argument doesn’t really matter — both will fail if the pass rush is weak.

Given enough time, and 3-4 seconds is all it takes, a decent quarterback will always find the weak points of the zone. I think Gregory knew this, and he was caught between a rock and a hard place. No blitz = no pressure, completed pass. Blitz = some pressure, get burned now and then. Not sure what Hydro will show us next time, but I remember Cal blitzing much more heavily as the game went on, and getting burned severely for doing so.

by I hate $C on Sep 1, 2010 12:31 PM PDT reply actions  

I think the biggest problem was blitz also = no pressure…..

by Missing Barry on Sep 1, 2010 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

Umm the safety blitz is not a blitz?

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Sep 1, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

An ineffective blitz does no good — still no pressure on the QB, less men in coverage.

by I hate $C on Sep 1, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that one of the big differences between Gregory’s and Clancy’s defenses is that Clancy is going to play a LOT less cover 3. I think that’s one of the main complaints about Gregory (whether fair or not) that he insisted on keeping everything in front of him. While this does expose a defense to more quick scores, often times, its better to have a quick score than a long, back-breaking drive that results in the same outcome. Question: is it normal for teams to play this much cover 3 (without actually having studied every team’s defense, I have no idea). I do think Clancy is going to have a little more faith in his safeties this year, and play much more cover 2, or even blitz his safeties more often (god I miss the days of the safety blitz). In Gregory’s defense, he did not have too many quality safeties to work with (Ezeff had his academic issues all year, Brett Johnson was lost most of the time and Cat-house was still learning the position). There is a lot more depth and experience back there this year.

Second, and this is another question, did Gregory ever play a man/zone combo. From my NCAA football PS3 experience (which obviously makes me instantly qualified to rip Gregory) I play a lot of man/zone combo, which seems to work best in the game. If Gregory didn’t want to play a straight up man Defense, why couldn’t he had played man and zone. For instance, since no one could cover Dickson by themselves, why couldn’t you play man on him, and then drop a LB into a zone in the middle of the field (essentially taking away any TE routes down the middle of the field). That’s what I do in NCAA 11…..obviously Gregory just needed to play some PS3 in the offseason.
(as an aside, what would be awesome is for CGB to do a NCAA 11 article about the different defensive strategies to play in the game).

Third, while lack of pressure is always a concern, I don’t think that’s what necessarily doomed Gregory. Dropping guys in coverage is not a terrible thing to do. However, they need to be placed in strategic positions. It seems like Syd was often times not covering anyone. You have your best defensive player doing pretty much nothing the entire game, as Oregon continued to floor the opposite side of the zone. So go ahead and drop people in coverage, but make sure they are at least doing something.

One last question, do you think Clancy is going to play as much zone as Gregory, or more a mixture, or more man? Or will we not know until the first game?

by phillaak23 on Sep 1, 2010 1:07 PM PDT reply actions  

did Gregory ever play a man/zone combo?

This is something I’ve kept an eye out for, but I haven’t found it yet. But then again, I think it’s pretty hard to identify this due to (1) poor TV angles; and (2) what may appear like man coverage could also be just tight zone coverage.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

One last question, do you think Clancy is going to play as much zone as Gregory, or more a mixture, or more man? Or will we not know until the first game?

I have no idea, but if Clancy is going to blitz, I’d assume that he’s going to use more man coverage. Not that you can’t blitz and use zones too, but against twin WR formations, I am of the preference to go into man blitzes so the twin WRs aren’t both in vacated zones.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by HydroTech on Sep 1, 2010 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

From watching the tape, Clancy used a lot of zone in the NFL. He’d mix it up with man, but I think he still was primarily a zone guy.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash Kunnath on Sep 1, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Dang!

How many times do we have to re-open old wounds??

by LordKdV on Sep 1, 2010 5:51 PM PDT reply actions  

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