UCLA Chancellor Chuck Young Tells Larry Scott To Turn Down Music And Pull Up Jeans
Expansion. It has been a hot topic all summer long. Whether it was the Pac10, Pac12, or even the monstrous Pac16, a lot of digital trees have been murdered discussing this topic. Well, Cal alum and respected Bay Area columnist Glenn Dickey recently took a look at expansion. Relying solely on the thoughts of former UCLA Chancellor Charles Young, Dickey came out strong against expansion:
Scott’s original idea was to entice Texas to bolt from the Big 12 and lead other Texas and Oklahoma schools into a separate wing of what would be the "Pac-16." But, Texas had no incentive to leave the Big 12. It was only using the Pac-10 as a bargaining tool with the Big 12.
Now, the Pac-10 is left with the worst of two worlds. Adding Utah and Colorado will do nothing to enhance its TV viability. Figuring added travel costs, "It may be a net loss," Young said.
The chancellors and presidents still have to give final approval. Let’s hope they stop this freight train in its tracks.
Dickey and Young are very much against expansion. In reading this article, I found myself more and more confused and, ultimately, more and more agitated. The facts underlying the arguments put forth by Dickey (and really Young, who is the sole source for this piece) did not seem to relate to facts I was aware of in the real world. Further, I saw people at various places, including here at CGB citing this piece as something more than ridiculous fantasy!
I decided to take some time to do some real research on this matter and see if the allegations made by Young via Dickey's piece were unfounded. After several hours of work, I determined that, in fact, very little of the Dickey piece and Young's allegations are even remotely close to accurate. Many of the statements and numbers promulgated in the article seem to have no basis in reality and it is unclear how the author and his source arrive at these statements.
Follow me after the jump to learn more about the piece by Dickey, Chuck Young's factual allegations, and my research.
So, let's take a closer look at this article. I am not entirely sure if fair use requirements allow me to quote each line I wish to refer to individually, because that could lead to me quoting the entirety of the article. So, I will paraphrase the sections I wish to respond to and you have the link in the above introduction to reread.
1. The Knight Commission. The first thing to look at it is Dickey's reference to Young as being on the Knight Commission. He uses this as a means to appeal to authority. It is an attempt to make Young's points seem more legitimate not because of anything in the points themselves, but because Young is on a panel. But what is the Knight Commission? Wikipedia tells me the following:
Currently, the commission serves as a de facto watchdog group which seeks to reform issues in college sports, mainly relating to excesses in recruiting, gender equity, and academic problems of student athletes. As an independent commission, it has no official connection to governing bodies such as the National Collegiate Athletic Association, the primary sanctioning body for college sports in the United States, or any government agencies.
While they seem to have an important and interesting role to play, they have no official relationship. Young has no more power in this situation than I do. Except Young could get the ear of important people due to his connections, I am sure. I should also note this from the Wikipedia article:
A survey released at the meeting, titled, "Presidential Survey on the Cost and Financing of Intercollegiate Athletics"[4]revealed the subsidies provided by most FBS institutions to their athletics budgets are rising more quickly than educational budgets. This, together with other opinions revealed in the survey, underscored the Commission's urgency to address the escalating costs of college sports through collective action, which requires support from presidents, NCAA leadership, university boards of trustees and conferences across the country.
This is important for later, but note that the Knight Commission is doing research and providing recommendations on the issue of subsidies provided by many schools to their athletics budgets. Hmmm, remember that.
2. Academics. Next, Young and Dickey talk about the academic angle. He casts aspersions on the academics of Colorado and Utah and feels that they pull down the academics of the conference. There are two responses to this:
First, here is a list of school rankings based on the US News & Reports. I can't quite figure out how to rank all 12 schools on one page, so here are the other 4.
Here is the list of all the schools:
5. Stanford
22. Cal
23. USC
25. UCLA
41. Washington
86. Colorado
111. Oregon
111. Washington State
120. Arizona
129. Utah
139. Oregon State
143. Arizona State
Here is the Academic Rankings of the World Universities, which some people like more than US News & World Reports.
2. Cal
3. Stanford
13. UCLA
16. Washington
32. Colorado
46. USC
78. Arizona
81. ASU
82. Utah
Other schools including Oregon, Oregon state, and Washington State are not listed in the Top 100. So, to me, the argument about academics is a clear non-starter. Two separate rankings show both Colorado and Utah well within the normal range for Pac10 schools. Neither Colorado nor Utah are elite schools like Cal and UCLA, but they are both well above Oregon State and Washington State, amongst other schools. Young says that Colorado is equal to Oregon and Utah is not even "in the picture." This is simply not accurate.
By both of these metrics, Colorado is far superior to Oregon and Utah is well into picture. Young is either looking at other numbers that I am not aware of or simply does not know what he is talking about.
The second response to Young's concerns regarding academics is that he was the chancellor for UCLA in the late 70s when the Pac8 turned into the Pac10. At that point, Young did not block the inclusion of two of the less academically prestigious schools into the Pac10, Arizona and Arizona State. Not only that, he was the original spark for expansion!
The '78 expansion was driven by UCLA chancellor Charles Young and Arizona president John Schaefer and not by TV revenue.
In May 1976, Young announced he would send UCLA vice president John Sandbrook to Tucson and Tempe to explore the possibility of expansion. This time, the Pac-10 hired a Hollywood marketing agency.
So, in 1978, UCLA chancellor Charles Young pushed to include two of the less prestigious schools academically into the Pac8. Now, 32 years later, he's against the inclusion of two academically equal or superior schools.....because of academics. Young is talking the talk now, but 30 years ago, he was not walking the walk. He even faced people who didn't want to vote for expansion in the Pac8:
In December 1976, Washington president John Hogness said he would not ratify the UA-ASU expansion. The deal required a unanimous vote. "I've consistently said I'm opposed to the two Arizona schools joining the league," Hogness said. "I still feel that way."
Hogness also indicated that Stanford president Richard Lyman "didn't believe the Arizona schools are academically compatible with Stanford."
Young was successful in convincing all parties to vote for the expansion, so at that time he was completely and totally ignoring the academics argument.
3. Geographic Sense. Young and Dickey next assert that the expansion makes little sense geographically. In specific, he argues that there is a pod system with schools in each state. But the pod system is kept here, because we just keep Utah/Colorado in their own pod. So, that argument holds little water to me. It is not as if we are adding Colorado and San Jose State or Utah and Northern Arizona University.
The next part of his argument I do agree with, however. He discusses how it could affect the California rivalries. I am with him 100% here. It would be truly unfortunate to lose the Cal-USC and Cal-UCLA games. In my view, I'd rather have the Cal-UCLA games as I really enjoy the UC relationship. So, point Young here!
4. Spending Of Money. Next, Young posits the Pac12 schools will spend this increased money from expansion on paying coaches more instead of on other more important needs. He also argues that they will spend the increased money from expansion on hiring more coaches instead of other more important needs. Let's take these in turn.
Firstly, regarding paying the coaches more, I would argue that against Young is not in a position to know this. He is not affiliated with any school at this time and is not privy to the plans of the universities.
Second, I would argue that it is not Larry Scott's job to spend the universities' money for them. It is Larry Scott's job to make more money for the universities. That is his sole focus. Once the universities get the money, then it is out of Larry Scott's hands. Expansion is the means by which Scott has decided to increase the money for the universities. How the universities spend the money in that sense is unrelated.
Third, I would argue that the schools will not just spend the money on additional coaches' salaries et al. I think that this is another way of Young essentially saying "They pay those coaches too much!" It is an argument I see from time to time. When I see it, I point out a few key facts that should be noted here. I will use Coach Jeff Tedford's contract as an example of how schools pay their coaches and whether increased revenues from expansion would go to pay these coaches more.
Tedford's contract (which you can read in pdf format here) is a complicated one. Section 3 on page 1 states that Jeff Tedford's base salary is $225,000.00 per year. Now that doesn't seem so big and is well under market, right? Section 8 on page has more information. It states that Tedford will also receive a talent fee of about $1.5 million dollars. What is a talent fee???? The Chron has further information:
To alleviate most of those questions, the initial contract terms are simple. Tedford's base salary would jump 34.4 percent, from $167,500 to no less than $225,000, and his "talent fee"' would see a similar rise from $1,332,500 to $1.575 million. The talent fee is widely believed to be funded by Nike, which provided Cal with its dashing array of uniform combinations this season.
It appears that Nike pays the vast, vast, vast majority of Coach Tedford's salary. So, when Cal gets more money from the expansion talks, they will not need to look at paying coaches more, because there are private sources involved that take care of that.
Regarding Young and Dickey's second argument that the Pac12 schools will use the increased revenues from expansion to hire more coaches, I am not even sure this is possible. Valued reader CalBear81 noted to me during discussions of this post that there are limits on the amount of coaches that a sport can hire. That is why we have a tight ends/special teams coach. In relation to football, they can have essentially 10 coaches:
Football staffs are allowed a head coach and nine full-time assistants on the field. Beyond graduate assistants, other staff members cannot work on the field in practice.
You might have read that the coach at Michigan, Rich Rodriguez, got in trouble recently. This was because he was circumventing this rule by having non-assistants (graduate or otherwise) performing coaching duties. So, even if Cal got an additional $1,000,000,000.00, they could not hire more coaches. Again, Young's allegations do not seem to match up well with reality.
In fact, it is more likely that Cal will use the money to save several sports from being cut. Regular readers of this site will be aware that a battle is brewing on Cal's campus. With severe budget cuts to Cal from the state, many players on the academic side are increasingly outraged by subsidies given to the athletics department. In fact, even Sports Illustrated mentioned it in a recent article on expansion:
Money matters. Earlier this month, a presidential committee at Cal released a scathing report that found that between 2004 and 2009, the university had given between $7 million and $14 million each year to subsidize the athletic department's now-$70 million budget. Those are taxpayer dollars funding sports at a time when faculty salaries are frozen and academic budgets are being slashed.
In that same article Scott himself pointed to Cal's situation as a reason why expansion is important:
Scott understands why some faculty members want to cut athletics subsidies completely. It's his job to find a way to generate enough revenue at the conference level so member schools won't have to cut sports or extras such as academic support for athletes if their universities decide they can't afford to subsidize athletics. "Cal is a microcosm of what's happening across our conference and, frankly, across the country," Scott said. "So I feel a tremendous responsibility and pressure, in a sense. ... There is more pressure on schools and conferences to be entrepreneurial, to pay for themselves."
8. Travel Costs. Finally, Young decries the potential increased travel. He says that because of the increased travel, it *may* be a net loss financially. Yes, it *may* be a net loss. Michael Mohamed also *may* be the starting QB for Cal in 2010. *May* is a word that means nothing. The Pac12 also *may* be an astounding success. May is a weasel word used to throw in certain ideas that are unclear without having to take a stand. Well, I will take a stand. There won't be increased travel. Let's take UCLA, Young's school. It is approximately 950 miles from LA to Seattle. It is approximately 575 miles from LA to Salt Lake City. It is 825 miles from LA to Boulder.
I could keep going on this. The Arizonas to the Oregons and the Washingtons is certainly a lot of mileage. Also, neither Washington State nor Oregon State are near major population centers/airports, while Utah and Colorado are, so that again cuts down on travel.
Again, the facts as presented by Young are not consistent with reality.
9. Conclusion
This article is based on the confusing and completely inaccurate statements of the former UCLA chancellor Charles Young. I think my post speaks for itself. Reality just does not match up with the 'facts' as presented by the former UCLA Chancellor. The facts are simple. Expansion is the best thing to happen to the Pac10. It is the only way to save multiple sports at multiple campuses. Without expansion, the Pac10 would fall further behind in the college football arms race.
Tom Hansen did nothing at all to help promote the Pac10 and took actions that kept it regional. Larry Scott has taken an aggressive stance and should be commended. Dickey should not be relying solely on one completely inaccurate source in writing hit jobs against expansion.
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Comments
Thanks for all the work you put into this, Twist!
I say we all spam Young and Dickey’s inboxes with links to this article.
California Golden Blogs! To be grammatically correct, it`s "Sacramento!", not "Sacramento".
wow
…epic…thanks
"It's on the ROOF, oh yeah, one hundred PROOF, oh yeah....."
by TKE Prytanis 79 on Aug 27, 2010 7:11 AM PDT reply actions
Many thanks for this should also go to CalBear81 whose constructive criticism was invaluable in finalizing the piece.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
KUDOS to you both!!
(Tempted to point out to the Zoobies, this fine example of a Research Institution and their “Academic Divinity” i.e. Deus Ex Machina)
by Ravenous Ute on Sep 22, 2010 7:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Rec'd!!
I didn’t check the author before reading this. Imagine my surprise when I saw that it was TwistNHook!! You’re ready for the big time: Bleacher Report!
Kidding aside, very well done! You put most of these professional “journalists” to shame.
This confirms my feeling that the only real drawback is the potential loss of rivalry games with UC and Ucla. I don’t want to lose either, even if it means an annual spanking at the hands of the condoms. Let’s hope they find a solution.
GOLD OUT MOZAMBIQUE!
by OskiMonsta on Aug 27, 2010 7:31 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
That's about 100x more research than Glenn Dickey did for the original story
Congrats. Here’s to the Pac12!
Minor point: You mentioned that by 2030 Utah is expected to grow to a population of 1.2 million, but it is expected to grow by 1.2 million to a population of 3.5 million.
Looking forward to trips to the Bay area for football rather than business. Cheers.
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Fudge, I realize now I misread the Census chart. You are right. I’m too lazy to edit it now, but a quick review of population statistics determines that Colorado has more population than Oregon, while Utah has less and then are all expanding at approximately the same pace as noted above. So, it kinda evens out to what I was saying, even if I was not correctly understanding the math.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Isn’t Young the ex-UCLA chancellor?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Rec'd hard
That reverse-mirror thing is mind boggling.
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
Young's comments are a joke.
I had to check his age to see if he was senile, which I think he might be. He is 78 years old. He is also stuck in the Tom Hansen wind tunnel. Great job on the article. Although, I am a little hurt by the WSU rankings and saying CU and UU are better academically.
but they are both well above Oregon State and Washington State, amongst other schools
I wouldn’t say well above.
Edward R. Murrow College of Communication ranks among the top 10 nationally in 13 areas of scholarship, according to the prestigious Communication Institute for Online Scholarship (CIOS).
As reported in the Chronicle of Higher Education, WSU’s faculty scholarship ranks fifth in the nation for botany and plant biology and tenth in the nation for zoology among large research universities.
WSU has a great research department and many other high ranking departments I could go on about but I think you get my point. I got a little sensy and didn’t want to get knocked down by the two Universities that haven’t even joined the conference yet.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I did not mean to insult Washington State. My only point was that academic concerns regarding these two schools are overblown. Thank you for your kind words and readership.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
I wasn't really offended, I was more messing around. I got your point, but I had to get a little jab in.
I brought it up on CougCenter, because I actually think it is good conversation. I actually think it is hard to compare schools academically, because every school usually has certain department (or departments) that are excellent. It is hard to compare apples and oranges.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
“Dickey should not be relying solely on one completely inaccurate source in writing hit jobs against expansion.”
Not if he wants to keep making the money that he is apparently getting from underwriting Young’s bullshit.
Thanx for doing this work and attributing Hansen as the original source. Thoughtful and brave.
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
Especially a source that was born in 1931.
Does he even know what the internet is?
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
My dad was born in 1928, and he uses the internet every day.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions
Savvvy.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Sorry about the age discrimination.
It just easy to lump that age group into computer illiterate.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
No worries, I guess I’m just a little sensitive because my parents are older than normal. Maybe kinda like you being sensitive about Wazzu :) It’s all good.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions
I got caught
in my one sensi moment of the year. LOL. Actually, as a Coug I am used to it.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I remember reading this on the way to work
And I got all pissed off. Nobody cares about this old whiny bitch’s opinion.
Just shut the hell up Young, honestly, no one gives a hoot what you think.
Fantastic post…very well done.
by Another Failed Tedford QB on Aug 27, 2010 9:51 AM PDT reply actions
Half-baked guess on 16-Pac
Colorado was clearly a part of a Pac 12,14,16,18 whatever.
Utah, if Scott et al could be dictators, would also be a part of any Pac-whatevers. However, if getting Texas and Oklahoma meant also Okie St, TTU, and A&M or Baylor, I think Scott would have complied with whatever the Big12 S conglomerate wanted.
Thus, when the Big12 S conglomerate fell through, Utah is now welcomed with open arms.
It would have been neat if just Texas and Oklahoma joined with Colorado and Utah, created two 7-team divisions. It would allow for more cross-divisional games (read: primo matchups on ABC/ESPN) and contain very large markets. It also would allow for older rivalries, like Colorado-Nebraska, Colorado-Colorado St, BYU-Utah, Texas and their little bitches, and Okie St-Okie to be played OOC and be played at a time (September) where no one really plays anyone (read: primo matchups on ABC/ESPN). Alas, this is all a moot point as a 14-Pac would have never happened. It would also cause one Pac 8 team to be given the boot, so that makes it less attractive.
I think a 16-Pac is still very viable, as it seems Okie St and TTU seem like they’re being overshadowed by their bigger brothers moneywise. I’m very interested in CGBers answering these questions:
If Okie St and TTU could be plucked away to the Pac12, would Oklahoma and Texas HAVE to follow?
Would also plucking Kansas and Mizzou, along with Okie St and TTU, force Oklahoma and Texas to follow thereby creating an 18-Pac (8 divisional games and 4 OOC/cross-divisional games)?
Would their be a viable Big12ish left?
Could Texas and Oklahoma still be that interesting with so many interesting opponents gone?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I don’t think Oklahoma and Texas would have to follow their former comrades even with the demise of the Big-XII conference. Oklahoma & A&M would be probably be jointly courted by the SEC, and I think Texas would look real hard at football independance. They will always be able to find enough smaller schools to organize non-revenue sports leagues. I believe Texas’ recent slew of massive OOC games (Cal, BYU, Notre Dame, USC, and possibly Maryland [all scheduled for between 2015-2020]), is an attempt to secure highly interesting games that will garner attention, money, and respect if they choose to go independent after 2015. They could maintain their A&M and Oklahoma rivalries, then use local Texas schools like Tech, Houston, TCU, etc. to fill out their schedule.
by chowder on Aug 27, 2010 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
If Okie St and TTU could be plucked away to the Pac12, would Oklahoma and Texas HAVE to follow?
Unfortunately, I think the answer to that question is “no”. Texas can do pretty much whatever the hell it wants. If we got aTm AND OU as well, then that might make it hard for Texas to say no, but I think it’s pretty tough to get all those without Texas already being on board.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions
I hope they join a mega-conference, hopefully the Pac-whatever, but if not then I suppose the SEC? If Texas joined the SEC, would that decrease their football quality by losing recruits to teams like Tennessee, Florida, Bama, and LSU? chowder’s got a good point about Texas as an Independent…they’d likely be in a BCS bowl every year and share that money with no one.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Yeah, I’d love for them to join the Pac-N too, and was super stoked about the proposed Pac-16 idea. I think they’d probably join us or go independent before joining the SEC. I don’t see what benefit they’d get from the SEC.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Agreed. I think they go Indy or Pac12(16)
They don’t want to go to the SEC — they already have fertile recruiting in TX — they don’t need the SEC territory for recruiting and I doubt they would go to the Big10. Who wants to go play up there? O ya, Nebraska. I see the West (Pac10) area as more progressive — especially now we have Larry Scott — and I think Texas sees themselves that way. The West is the fastest growing area in the nation (hint: no humidity) Also, the SEC doesn’t have any major media markets like LA or the Bay area.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
If Texas joined the SEC, would that decrease their football quality by losing recruits to teams like Tennessee, Florida, Bama, and LSU?
I think it’s less about the talent of the team (I doubt they’d really lose recruits) and more about the fact that they’ll have to actually compete against teams that can beat them, so they don’t have a welcome mat laid down for them to make a BCS bowl.
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I also don't think
they would like the fact that SEC teams would be traveling to Texas and spending more time in their fertile recruiting grounds. Could you imagine Florida, Alabama, etc. traveling to TX to play games?
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Big 12 schools
Clearly, Texas was the big prize. However, Utah was high on the PAC’s list too and def more than Okie State, Texas Tech, Kansas, or Baylor. These other teams invited to lure TX.
by Seth Johanson on Aug 27, 2010 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions
He actually stated travel costs as an example.
Does he realize that Salt Lake City and Denver are Delta and United hubs? Rice Eccles stadium is less than 10 miles from the SLC airport. I would guess that SLC will have the best access from the airport for any PAC 10 school.
Travel to any PAC 10 school will be reasonable. Even possible with a road trip. We are almost dead center. I bet if you ranked travel costs to other PAC 10 members SLC would be one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest.
Just look at a map. Flights are short and if you choose to drive you could do it in a day from any PAC 10 school. Distance by coordinates from SLC to…
Seattle, WA 699.34
Pullman, WA 489.16
Eugene,OR 613.73
Corvallis, OR 633.53
Berkeley, CA 613.73
Stanford, CA 596.44
Los Angeles, CA 579.25
Tucson, AZ 592.00
Tempe, AZ 507.21
*******
Denver, CO 370.60
We don’t have any large distances like Seattle to Tucson 1,218.
Ya, all these numbers are great. I coulda kept going with the distance argument, but I felt the point was made and it was a long, long piece already. Thakns for the comment!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
I would even suggest that SLC should be considered as a possibility for the PAC 10 basketball tournament.
The Huntsman center holds 15,000. Less than 5 miles away is the Delta Center which holds around 20,000.
Now I don’t know all the details so I may be missing an important key fact. But it would be central to all teams with cheap travel costs. Plus the facilities are available.
All Pac-10 post season basketball must take place in an empty Staples Center.
by GBB4188 on Aug 27, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
They will be the 1st school
that will happy to travel to Pullman. Ya. We also may be the closest to Boulder.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Havana, Cuba, is closer to Miami than Atlanta is.
The simple mileage isn’t the issue. Salt Lake City and Denver are in totally different regions of the country from the rest of the Pac-10 conference. The Arizona schools were already tainting the “Pac” flavor. The two new schools are not West Coast at all. They’re rocky mountain, South Park territory. They’d be a perfect fit of the Mountain West Conference.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions
It isn't always about travel.
I would rather add Utah and CU than Fresno St., San Jose St. and San Diego St even though they are “west” coast schools. It wouldn’t make sense money-wise, academic-wise or competition-wise to add those type of schools. It is not about regionality (new word), it is about legitimacy (and TV markets), that is why Utah and CU were added.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I think all those things matter.
Regional conferences matter. They stoke rivalries and intensify recruiting. And they establish a kind of fraternal competitiveness.
I literally have two Washington alums, one Stanford alum, and one ASU alum in my office. A good friend of mine went to Oregon. And several friends went to UCLA or USC. I don’t know if I’ve ever even met someone who went to Utah or Colorado. I may never run into one of their alumni unless it’s at a game in the future.
Those places seem as remote to me as West Virginia.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions
A good friend of mine graduated from Northern Arizona University and a person in my office graduated from UC Davis. Should we add them?
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Aug 27, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Larger point...
I never even bump into Utah and Colorado alumni. They might as well be on another planet. Not in the Pac-10.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It would be surprising to me if Larry Scott ran the Pac10 based on your Facebook account.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Aug 27, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
It would be even more surprising if he had Facebook.
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Come on, you know you’ve been trying to friend me.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions
Don’t do it! His Farmville updates are endless!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Aug 27, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I’m slowly wading through all the accounts of people named Monica and looking for middle aged people in their friends list.
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well hello, Mr. Sassypants.
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Aug 27, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
Lot's of Buffs in LA
We have one of their biggest alumni contingents outside of Colorado
Salve Caesar Augustus Kiffinus!
Ad astra per aspera
Then again, there is the largest contingents of Iranians and Armenians in LA, but you don’t see Larry Scott trying to court Kotayk Valley State or Qom A+M.
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions
Not yet, anyway
If Hapoel Tel Aviv can play in the Euro Champions League, anything’s possible.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Well, they probably tried to play in one of the Arab champions league but I think no one would compete against them.
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Orwell wrote that football is war minus the shooting. Presumably the Arabic neighbors of Israel have noticed how well they’ve done in the war including shooting business, so perhaps it’s not surprising they don’t want a piece of the bullet-free variety either.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I could see Utah to some degree, but CU? Really? I think that’s weird and you must not get out much.
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions
This ship sailed once we invited the Arizona schools back in the 70s. Also, it’s just not reasonable to expect the Pac-X to only invite schools in Pacific-coast states, because there just aren’t enough of them. Who else is left? Fresno? San Jose State? Hawaii? None of them bring any kind of TV market we didn’t already have before.
And staying as the Pac-8 would basically guarantee that the conference never sniffs the kind of relevance the other BCS conferences have.
Also, I know at least one Colorado alum who lives in the Bay Area. And I don’t know that many people.
I'd love to see the NCAA create some new rules RE: conferences.
Such as limiting membership to eight schools each. We could expel the Arizona schools, the SEC could be broken up, and conferences nationwide could once again start making sense.
Maybe with all the controversies at U$C, Tennessee, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc., there is some will on the part of governing bodies to get back to the model of student athletes. I’m not yet jaded enough to believe the system will just keep getting more and more corrupted by money interests.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I am. Jaded enough, that is. If anything, the conference re-alignments this summer are more likely to lead to national “super-conferences” in 20 years as they are to a return to the past.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
by DC Trojan on Aug 27, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I’m just looking to see where the money trail leads, and it doesn’t lead to rugged old-school amateurism.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Have you seen Cal's results in that arena?
Taking up rugby would be like asking to see who could compete to be number 2.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Utah actually beat them this year.
So the #1 and #2 rugby schools in the nation play in the Pac 12.
Everyone hates a pink-shirt-wearing communist.
by displacedute on Aug 30, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions
I'd guess
We’re heading towards anywhere from 40 – 80 schools bailing on the NCAA, or at least forming a “super division 1”. And I think that’s a GOOD thing. Cutting down on the schools we pretend are competing on an equal playing field lets us:
Pay players
Put in a reasonable playoff system
Get more good matchups and fewer cupcake time-wasters
etc.
I’m not sure if I’m jaded so much as I just see things from a really unusual perspective.
I don’t think that’s unusual… although tasty cupcakes will continue to be part of the college football landscape even if there’s an outbreak of honesty about it being a semi-professional sport. I don’t follow the NFL that much, but isn’t the point of revenue sharing that there will always be cupcake teams but that the imbalance won’t be so obvious as to excite popular opinion?
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
there would still
be better and lesser teams, but if you even take 80 (and I’d guess it’s less) than you won’t see any teams from 1-AA, the MAC, the Sun Belt or the lower end of CUSA.
So that means VERY few matchups inside your new division / association / whatever you call it get 30+ point spreads, much less 40+ point spreads from Vegas (which is the most obvious sign on a pointless, waste of time game). You’ll still see plenty of not especially competitive games, but the “cupcake” games become more like 10-20 point expectations with occassional outliers, instead of a team getting four OOC games that each have 30+ point spreads (and something like a 0.25% upset chance), which you can see now from time to time.
Of course, you’d still see occasional games against the teams left behind, but probably they’d be official “preseason” games, where they officially don’t count for anything and no one pretends that they matter.
I'd rather be a cupcake
than a D-II or D-III school. I hope it doesn’t evolve to much. Then you will never have any Cinderella stories. Also, many schools would get kicked out, which would suck. The Cougs are probably considered to most a small market team and we are currently really, really bad (an understatement), but in the last 20 yeasr we have been to more Rose Bowls than 7 other Pac10 schools. I would hate to see that happen.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Do you think a revival is possible?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Anything is possible. What about Cal in 1-10? Did anybody see the last 8 years after that season?
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Yes, but there were very real tangible things in place, such as:
- a large alumni fanbase
- # 5 market
- # 1 university
- me as a postdoc
- awesome stadium
- NFL-caliber players
- The Play
- Joe Starkey
- Tom Holmoe leaving
Wazzu doesn’t have several of those, and I wonder if they can be competitive in today’s $-driven college football.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Clearly, you need to go to WSU to do a postdoc.
Do it for SoCalCoug!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
that ship’s sailed.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Come on!
We got a good Veterinarian school.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Really? That’s cool. Those vets make a lot of money and have cash patients, err, pet owners.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Pet owners
are always suckers. Ooo that kinda of sounded bad typing it.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Speaking of that, funny story. My sister in law is interested in vet school. She researched vet schools and decided she wanted to check out WSU. Without asking me (or anyone else apparently), she booked a trip West to check out the campus. She booked her trip for…wait for it…
SEATTLE!
She was bummed when I told her WSU was nowhere near Seattle.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
At least she didn’t think it was in D.C. LOL. Anytime I talk to someone east of the Mississippi I have to say Washington State or they assume D.C.
Tell her WSU is way better the UW. Great college town.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
All I can say is
Keith Jackson is a Coug. That should keep us legit forever.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I don’t mean to rag on you or your University, but I was just curious as to what the hope is, as Coug fans. Wulff or bust?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I think Wulff
gets another year after this no matter what. Although 0-12 would make it difficult. The AD Moos likes what he is doing — building a good program for the future.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Ted Miller picked Cal to lose @ Wazzu.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I didn't read that.
I always knew I liked Ted Miller. Haha. I have been hearing people predicting we beat UCLA and ASU, but not Cal.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Cal seems to be
the popular pick for getting upset in a random game. As I noted here, it’s not that hard to see why.
I think that 1-11
with another bunch of 30+ point blowouts, would also make it really difficult. But I’ve argued that one before, and clearly there are a LOT of Coug fans who disagree with me. So we’ll see (hopefully we WON’T see, because they’ll be better than that, but I’m not optimistic)
Ya, I think he will be around
I am rooting for him to make it. We (as in Cougs) for some reason can be patient, because we understand we have to operate differently than most Pac10 programs. Also, he is a Coug and he will stick around if he wins. Unlike Price who went to Alabama and got caught in a strip club.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Price
was there over a decade and then got a HUGE promotion. At the time I recall it being a fairly amicable parting, as much as it can ever be when a coach leaves a job for another.
Of course, what happened afterward turned pretty embarrassing though.
Ya, I think it was
the aftermath that got everyone. No one was mad at the time. We understood, it was Alabama, but boy did he look bad with that whole fiasco. There was a reason he didn’t get in trouble in Pullman.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Yes, yes it should.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
"Whoa Nellie"

"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Oddly, I’ve never met an Ohio State fan who likes him. Buckeye Nation tends to think every national broadcaster is rooting against them.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
I work with a Buckeye fan. Man am I tired of hearing about Woody Hayes, Archie Griffin and The Shoe. Most Westcoasters love Kieth Jackson. That’s why they probably don’t like him. He is (was) the voice of the Rose Bowl.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
NFL caliber players?
Try Ryan Leaf! Ooops bad example.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Bledsoe was hella good tho.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Mark Rypien?
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
The throwin' Samoan!
Jack Thompson, FTW!
Jerome Harrison is doing all right (if playing in Cleveland can be called “all right”).
And Jason Hanson has been the Lions’ kicker for about 50 years.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
That is why the orginal
Pac schools will never break up. Every school has bad seasons. I would hate to be going through a rough spot and people are trying to decide if you should be in the conference. UW and WSU have had some quality years, but these last 3 have been horrible.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Give us a couple more years.
We will be back.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
As long as we're just wishing away here...
Your fear could be addressed by introducing promotion / relegation like in overseas soccer leagues. Take the bottom 10 teams in this notional super league and drop them out. It would give the teams that were left behind something to compete for.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
if and when
something like that happened (and I do believe it’s the logical extension of a lot of the expansion process, though far from the only possible outcome), I would presume it’s going to be fixed in place. X number of schools say “this is what we’re doing, this is who we’re taking.” And then that’s it. People like fixed leagues, fixed schedules, and a sense of constancy. Moreover, if you start playing relegation and promotion, you get into a huge fight over which programs would be relegation-eligible and which would be immune, and you’d also risk ending up with geographically nightmarish leagues, which to be honest no one really wants to see.
You can easily come up with a list of 20 – 40 programs that would be shoo-ins. The rest would be a combination of the next strongest group and the ones that the top 20-ish wanted to take along (which is why the SEC and Big Ten would go in intact, regardless of whether or not you think MIss St, Vandy, or Indiana should get in).
And the schools that are left behind can have football programs that actually put more of an emphasis on education, institute tighter limits on practice, # of games, etc. and basically move towards actual ameteur athletics. It’d suck for their fans (though then again, they’d have a non-fantasy shot at national titles in such a division), but it would be a gain, not a loss, for the players.
And it’d be a net gain for fans overall nationwide, again since you coudl see fewer cupcake games and an actual sensible playoff system (which is frankly impossible with 120 teams and an enormous disparity b/w the best and crappiest programs – it’s politically a nightmare to have auto-bids without giving one the MAC, but it’s ludicrous to include CMU in a plaoff).
I would love to see that. Not that I necessarily think I will…
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
I just hope we get to be a part. I feel bad for the Baylors and Iowa Sts that could get hurt if this all goes down. I think the Pac10 will hopefully fight to always stay together.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
i also hope that
the Pac-10 (soon to be 12) stays together for the long haul. Whether that actually happens or not I really don’t know, but it’s my preference.
It could happen...
Say we get super-conferences. The money won’t necessarily pour in. And folks may suddenly get the itch to bust up those large unions. Like Texas was prepared to do to the Big XXII.
If fans don’t suddenly tune in to games in much larger numbers, TV networks won’t continue to throw big money at super-conferences to get their broadcast rights. And then schools that do generate a lot of revenue will resent having to share with so many other schools that are perceived as not pulling their weight.
I don’t think there’s some deterministic progression in society toward one set outcome. Things go in cycles. People may yet find themselves unsatisfied with the ways things develop over the next few years.
Especially when we don’t get to play in LA every year.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions
If you lose the smaller schools
you will lose a lot of fan base. If WSU is not in the equation then I am not watching College football. I still watch USC and Cal games because it is Pac10 football, but if I am not part of the equation I am not watching those college football games anymore. I would not make sense to go to just the elite schools, plus there are other sports involved besides football. I don’t think it will ever go to just 80 schools.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
This is kind of the overarching point int he TV negotiations. Right now people in Utah love to watch Utah and BYU football. But they might not care too much about Oregon-Washington. Now, you as a WSU fan would watch Oregon-Washington to root, I presume, for the Ducks.
Potentially people in Utah will now watch Oregon-Washington and games like it, because they like Pac12 football! And Larry Scott can use that concept in his negotiations.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Exactly
but why did you have to pick Washington-Oregon game? That is a tough pick. I guess I would take the Ducks. Couldn’t you have used Washington-Oregon State?
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Allow me to apologize for my clear breach of Cougar etiquette.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Haha.
It like saying to you Stanford-USC or Stanford-UCLA.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
That one’s easy. Go Huskies!
(Sorry, I REALLY REALLY hate OSU)
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you ride one of these?

CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Aug 27, 2010 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
How on earth are is anyone going to break up the SEC? Don’t they pretty much mint money over there? Nobody would stand to see the end of that gravy train.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
There ya go
You had to throw the U$C. I thought we could be friends, I’m so disappointed.
_________________________________________________________________________‎
"You can't sanction heart, and you can't sanction the will to win" - USC QB, Matt Barkley
I have never met anyone who went to Wazzu (no offense SoCalCoug), or OSU, or even Arizona or ASU. On the other hand, the guy in the next cubicle over to me is a University of Colorado alum, my boss is a University of Utah undergrad/Berkeley grad school guy, another person in the office is from the Denver area, and I’m dating someone who grew up in Colorado. What does that mean? Not a lot.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions
It may mean you run with a bad crowd.
by Monica's Dad on Aug 27, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was funny.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
No Cougs.
You must not party enough. Haha. No offense taken. I am sure you will run into some Cougs now that you have said that.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
I actually don’t party all that much, regrettably. I’m sure I’d meet plenty of Sun Devils as well if I went out a lot.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I have never met anybody who went to WSU. And I mean this solely as an insult to SoCalCoug!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
When can we meet?
Haha.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Didn’t you have a brother go to Wazzu?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
second cousin that you haven’t met?
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Well, my uncle is named Washington S. University. Does that count?
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
brother from a different mother?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I don’t know if I’ve ever even met someone who went to Utah or Colorado.
I’m pretty sure you have. CU has tons of alumni in California.
If these places seem remote to you, I suggest taking the time to visit them! I got to see both Salt Lake City and Boulder this summer, and both have lots of things going for them. Make them your new friends! Head out to Boulder next year for the game agaiinst CU. You’ll find it’s got a lot in common with Berkeley, and has simply breathtaking surrounding areas.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
I don’t see why the Rockies are that much different than say, Northern California or Eastern Washington….
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, since the Arizonas are now part of the Pac-10, you could say that the “flavor” has changed. Besides, I think Boulder fits in VERY well with Berkeley, Eugene, Seattle, and Westwood. Have you ever been there?
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah
Utah has outgrown the Mountain West and no way Colorado would go from the BCS Big 12 to a non-BCS conference.
by Seth Johanson on Aug 27, 2010 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to mention both airports are Western Hubs....
Delta/SkyWest in SLC and Frontier Airlines in Denver. So talk about cheap flight availability. Southwest has its HUB in Vegas so also cheap if you don’t mind a layover with slots.
by Ravenous Ute on Sep 22, 2010 7:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I know Denver isn’t that far, but when I looked at prices for flying out there for Cal’s game at Air Force in 2004, I couldn’t find any sort of decent rates, certainly nothing like what I get flying up and down the coast. For the price of a flight to Denver + $50 or so, I could have flown to New York City easy.
Long story short, I ended up driving, picked up two major speeding tickets on the way, and it ended up costing me more than it would have to fly!
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
I cannot speak to your specific experience. All I can tell you is that there are two airports, the Boulder airport and the Denver airport in a local area to Colorado. I’m also not entirely sure that the football teams fly commercial.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
just about everytime I’m at the Oakland airport I see Oregon St’s plane.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
It’s just a Horizon logojet. They’ve got an Oregon, Washington, and Washington State livery as well.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions
The WSU
one is probably just a puddle jumper.

"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Since you're a good sport
Here you go, buddy:

by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions
I've been on it
OSU and UW were right next to it. I couldn’t help but feel I was getting on the wrong plane. However, they serve complimentary craft brew on board!
I probably was Busch Light.
WSU signature beer.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
That is a beautiful site. Thanks,
I don’t get to see that much as I have been living in SoCal for a few years now.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
No problem. I see the fucking OSU one all the time, ugh.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions
You'd fly into Denver, not Boulder.
Boulder Municipal Airport is a public airport, and has no commercial service. I’d be shocked if the team flew directly in. It doesn’t seem very likely, anyway. Boulder is only a 25-minute drive from Denver, so It’s not a huge burden (in general) to get there.
Air Force Academy (ironically enough) is way trickier to get to by air, because it’s in Colorado Springs, which is a good 60-90 minutes south of Denver.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
Speeding tickets suck.
I can’t believe everyone is discussing how much the travel is going to cost. The Pac12 network payout will dwarf all these travel cost. What are we talking about 1-2 longer trips a year — sometime shorter for some schools — that schools will have to make? You also have to look at other circumstances. I bet you it is very expensive for UW to come to LA. It is over 1200 miles, the hotels are most expensive, cost in California are most expensive all around. Trust me living hear is expensive. Gas is a lot more in CA than most states. UW going to SLC is probably a cheaper flight, cheaper hotels and the school is right by the airport. The traveling costs in all of this expansion is not a big deal as TwistNHook has already pointed out.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
See Above
Just find the right airlines… see above about Western HUBS…
by Ravenous Ute on Sep 22, 2010 7:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice research.
Glenn Dickey has turned from curmudgeon to full-blown crank since leaving the Chronicle. Always fun to see such crusty, cranky conventional wisdom so artfully deconstructed.
We rejected Texas
I thought it was the PAC-10 that rejected Texas when the SWC imploded. One school didn’t feel its academics were on par with the rest of the conference, ahem cough Stanford
One point that might be interesting is how the academics of ASU and UA were perceived at the time of expansion from Pac-8 to Pac-10. Were they about the same, or better/worse? Just trying to surmise how hypocritical Young is.
No good reason
Young’s grasping at straws. He probably doesn’t want the young whipper snappers to show up the old guard — by building a better business model for the conference. It’s a little sad and pathetic really.
A lot of ol’ timers end up like Young at some point … can’t deal with change so you start sending e-mails or trying to call folks. The current presidents and chancellors probably never even see or read Young’s e-mails, and if they do, probably laughing at him behind closed doors.
by Seth Johanson on Aug 27, 2010 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Colorado and Texas rejected Pac 10 invites in 1994
When they were basically already committed to the idea of the Big 12.
Rec'd
Twist, really really fabulous job here.
One part that made me mad… where it says that Tom Hansen declined the reverse mirror option. Shit like that pisses me off. Clearly, we don’t really know why but if TH declined after the 2006 MackBrown vote pandering debacle, then this is even more inexcusable. That event proved definitively how important perception and promotion are in CFB bowl assignments. The fact that TH continued to hinder our conference teams’ ablity to promote themselves is stupid and irresponsible at best… and reprehensible at worst. Dammit I’m so mad!! Thanks Twist. :(
Okay seriously, thanks Twist. I truly enjoyed this article.
Cheers.
Fire Starkey. You... complete me.
What if Wertenberger declined the reverse mirror option?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Shut your moth Carp!! Why would you say that? Wertenberger would never do that. NEVER.
Fire Starkey. You... complete me.
Yeah, I remember seeing that ESPN article about a month ago and reading about Hansen turning down the reverse-mirror. All I could do was:

I mean really, who wants nationally televised games anyway?

by minesweeper on Aug 27, 2010 11:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Great post...just one comment
You said that “Utah will grow approximately 56% to a population of approximately 1.2 million people.” What I’m sure you meant is that Utah’s population would grow 1.2 million people. The current popultion of Utah is ~ 2.75 million. So the total pupulation based on that growth model would be in the neighborhood of 4 million.
Well done sir...
Obviously this editorial you’re responding to rubbed Ute fans the wrong way. I appreciate you taking it apart, point by point.
Obviously Cal knows a thing or two about prestige in academia, but if I could just tout my alma mater’s resume a bit. The number one goal for the President of the University of Utah is membership in the AAU. I hear that membership is very close to being announced, but that’s sort of like an expansion saga for educators, you never know.
Utah ranks #1 in the country with MIT for starting companies from research-based inventions.
http://unews.utah.edu/p/?r=021610-2
I am obviously very excited to have my university be part of the Pac-12. It’s a lifelong dream. I’m on this blog, and others, because I’m curious to gauge the reaction of current conference members. I hope some healthy, fun rivalries develop, and since I’ve already taken road trips to most Pac-10 schools, I really look forward to the future.
by Ute in Chicago on Aug 27, 2010 11:03 AM PDT reply actions
Wow i didin’t know this about Utah (companies formed from research-based inventions). I work with a lot of startups and have seen quite a few come out of Utah, which usually surprises me. I’m going to stop being surprised now.
Anyways, given my experience with some of these companies, Utah research is producing some really cool things. kudos.
Fire Starkey. You... complete me.
good job twist
props for all the work put into this piece. good job
once again shows twist has no life other than writing about football. :]
get off me bandwagoners!
http://www.cleancutmedia.com
I inadvertantly failed to link to the SI article I referenced. I added the link in and you can read more here.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Holy Actual Journalism, Batman!
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 11:25 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
This is why I like the Pac 10 so much better...
Well reasoned, well researched, well articulated and fair articles that use actual facts. The Young article has been floating around the Big XII boards, and the response there is “CU is not getting into the Pac 10. Har, Har”.
Its wierd reading this article, and the one on CougCenter the other day, and not having you guys rip CU for being broke, or hippies or something. I’m sure all that will start when we join the conference.
Also, I am going to fan post a link to this (if I can figure out how) on Ralphie Report if that is OK.
Hilariously, I found this article through Ralphie Report.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
Great Name
kingpants
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Hippies!? You think anyone from Berkeley is in any sort of position to mock anybody on Earth for hippies?
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
Never forget

Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Aug 27, 2010 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions
immediatelyNeverforget
fixed
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Dumpster Muffin: Can I get a pot brownie up here!?!
by PlayClassyBears on Aug 27, 2010 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions
Note to self, don’t surround text with ‘!’
Let’s you add images inline easier…!http://url.to.image/!
by OaktownAggie on Aug 27, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions
UHm
Broke hippy hear…ain’t makin’ fun of them! Maybe smoke a bowl tho.
j/k
by PlayClassyBears on Aug 27, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions
Excellent
First, excellent article on all counts. It’s like you took all my gut reactions after reading the Dickey article and backed them up with factual evidence.
Second, I’m not sure why but I am now addicted to watching Pac-10 commercials on youtube.
Nerd!
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Is it because you see…UC?
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions
Nice job Twist
I think that hindsight will be clearer and once we get a “Pac-12” network and the schools are making the extra millions in revenue from the TV contracts, I think we’ll see that Scott has put the conference in a position to succeed financially and not rely on university funds to support athletics anymore.
Additionally, I checked out the Big Ten network a couple months ago to see what type of programming they have and whether it’s all-Michigan vs. OSU-all the time, and I was pleasantly surprised to find that each school gets allotted airtime to show programs other than just sports, called “campus programming.” The campus programming ranges from performing arts to student productions to faculty profiles to updates on interesting research and so much more. How great would it be to have this type of programming on a “Pac-12” network, not to mention an increase in coverage of other sports (baseball, softball, Olympic sports (gymnastics, swimming, track & field), tennis, rugby, etc.)?
I’m bullish on conference expansion and am glad that Larry Scott bucked the status quo. I think it’ll be an interesting experiment and the risks are relatively low given that the Big Ten has already proven the model. Here’s what ESPN has to say about the Big Ten Network revenue model:
Last year, schools received roughly $9 million each from the conference’s deal with ABC/ESPN and another $7 million to $8 million from the BTN. Add revenue from bowl games, the NCAA basketball tournament and licensing, and you arrive at the estimated $22 million-a-year distribution figure that’s the envy of every Division I school outside the Southeastern Conference.
That’s a lot of dough. Granted, a “Pac-12” network probably wouldn’t generate this much right away, but Larry Scott has the right idea and frankly, I’m glad that he’s going after it. More power to him.
All I can think of is that UCLA is still butt hurt over this...
by JazzyUte on Aug 27, 2010 12:50 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Youtube stole your audio
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
what do you expect
from a guy who was a chancellor of an extenion service?
In all reality, this is yet another example why Pac-10 fans have cheered Tom Hansen’s exit. Dude had no clue.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
Agreed
If he is on the knight commission he should have known some of this stuff. Like claiming the PAC 10 will hire more coaches because Utah and Colorado join. Did he seriously believe that? If he did, then why is he on the knight commission?
Is there no requirement for understanding what you are talking about in the knight commission?
A lot of Utah boards and Colorado boards have picked it up. Our uniques are through the roof so far today. Our page views are not necessarily commensurate, which means that it is a lot of people coming to this from somewhere else and reading solely it. Not great for building a hardcore fanbase of CGB, but for general awareness of CGB it is good.
The page views for this particular post are 10X that of any other specific post right now on CGB for today, it has more page views than other post for the last 3 days (even though its only but up for less than one day) and, on top of that, it actually has more page views today than the actual site itself. That is unbelievably rare. Basically, more people are coming solely to this piece than the CGB front page.
The bottom line is that it means a lot, lot, lot of links.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Nice. I would hope it’s in Ted Miller’s lunch links too.
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions
I think Miller only links to us in the off-season when there isn’t as much legitimate content. Not to say he would not have enjoyed this piece, but when it is CGB or the SF Chronicle (to him, at least) there is no contest.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Great article
well researched, well argued. I’d probably tweak point 7 and note that inside the state of Utah, BYU is probably better followed, but I’d be surprised to hear that UU was a distant second (though I haven’t done research on it), and to be honest it’s a minor point.
I suspect
that the Young article and the sentiment behind it reflects the upcoming fight over alignment, revenue sharing, etc. Half-assed arguments aside, the original statement came from a fairly well-known UCLA guy, and Glenn Dickey is a bay area writer.
I think the implication behind the fact that the article even came out is that there are substantial interests in CA who are likely to fight pretty aggressively for whatever it is they want in the upcoming negotiations. The fact that anyone associated with ANY of these universities is willing to throw out the “let’s just forget this whole thing, kick them out and go back to the way things were” argument reads to me like throwing down the gauntlet, i.e. “give us what we want or we will make this ugly”.
Of course, it could also just be an old guy rambling, but I look at it and think that trouble could be coming down the road, depending on how things work out. Not a pleasant sign IMO.
I think its Hansen trying to protect his legacy. If Hansen says this stuff, there is strong messenger bias. With a “member Of The Knight Commission and former UCLA Chancellor” theres no messenger bias. These are all the half-assed arguments Hansen would have used.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
interesting argument
I can see that. Not sure if you’re right (don’t know the politics that well, especially the politics among the people who have retired), but it does seem to make sense.
Great read Twist
I also agree with MrPT about ucla’s issue with revenue sharing. In the end money is always at the center of all arguments.
Salve Caesar Augustus Kiffinus!
Ad astra per aspera
The Knight Commission mention didn't strike me as an appeal to authority...
so much as a way of pointing out that Young may still have some sway with conference chancellors and presidents who have the final say on expansion. Since Young is actually still active in the world of college athletics, and not just wasting away somewhere complaining about young whippersnappers, it’s possible that his ideas will at least be taken seriously.
I really don’t think that Dickey mentioned that to convince readers that we should agree with Young — just that the college biggies will hear him out.
Great Article
Very nice work – enjoyed reading it. Thanks for backing up your statment with FACTS.
Twist, you obviously killed it
with that dissection and this was worth reading just to see such a thorough smackdown of shoddy journalism. But why’d you let it bother you to the point that you felt it was worthy of anything more than a moment’s snarking and then kicking it back into the ocean of irrelevance it just crawled out of (a question I’d also pose to our new Ute and Buff friends)?
If Dickey had published this 2 months ago (i.e when this was all still a going concern) maybe it’d have been worth responding to…but now? It’s already done, and with the unanimous consent of the Pac, no less. Who cares what Glenn Dickey thinks about it now? In fact, who cares what Glenn Dickey thinks about anything now? Why is anyone even reading Glenn Dickey in 2010? 2010! The guy was never anything more than a preening hack even in his heyday, but that was 30+ years ago…
I think the simple truth of this whole “story,” is best captured in your title: it’s basically one Has-Been citing another Has-Been with (as you’ve shown) strong circumstantial evidence of the involvement of a third Has-Been (maybe more…w/e). Just old fogeys sitting on their front-porch rockers, yelling at the kids to get off their lawn, and complaining bitterly about how the younger generation is trying to fix the problems they caused. They’re worthy of our mockery IMO, but not our serious rebuttal. Certainly not our anxiety…
it's still a week until kickoff
and the preview articles have to be getting a bit boring. It can be fun to change up the pace a bit. At least, that’s my guess.
Speaking of which,
wish us luck against the OSU Cowboys. We open on the 4th against them in Stillwater. I hope we put on a good showing for the Pac10.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Honestly, I don’t know why I spent the 3 hours or so on this that I did. I guess it just stuck in my craw. And it was a nice break from annoying the other members of the CGB team into responding to Roundtables!
Honestly, I think it was not as much Dickey’s piece as it was seeing some other people here and on other sites really stand on this piece as if it had any resemblance to reality.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
At least it didn’t get stuck in your kencraw!
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Twist getting stuck in Kencraw?!? I thought that was still illegal!
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions
But why’d you let it bother you to the point that you felt it was worthy of anything more than a moment’s snarking and then kicking it back into the ocean of irrelevance it just crawled out of (a question I’d also pose to our new Ute and Buff friends)?
As for Utah fans, I can tell you why it bothered us: the article got linked countless times on various Mountain West Conference message boards. Fans of conference foes were pointing at the article, ignoring its complete lack of credibility or quality, and saying, “Ha! you might be stuck with us after all.”
They were also reading it and saying, even if you do get “final approval” (whatever that is?) the league is going to break up in a few years. It was frustrating and this article was breath of fresh air.
Ever read Fire Joe Morgan? Fisking bullshit is an artform and an eminently rewarding and worthwhile endeavor.
by atomsareenough on Aug 27, 2010 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
a few comments
I tried to post a few comments about the Chuck Young debacle on Bruinsnation, which posted a piece praising the former Chancellor’s effots, but the mod there kept deleting my entries. For whatever reason, UCLA fans really seem to not want Utah joining the PAC. No other school is throwing a fit about it like the Bruins.
Anyway, more on Young, after he left UCLA and became President of the University of Florida in the late ’90s, he oversaw the Ron Zook football era with the Gators. We all know how that turned out — Zook lost more home games in a season or two than Steve Spurrier did his whole time there. Gator fans hated Zook and the hire was considered a disaster.
Young left Florida after a few years and was replaced by Bernie Machen, who didn’t take long to fire Zook and bring in Urban Meyer to coach the Gators. Meyer would then win two national championships and coached a Heisman winner.
Not too shabby. Machen easily outshined Young taking care of the mess he left at the Florida athletic department and building the Gator football program into a national powerhouse. And guess what Machen and Meyer have in common? They both came directly from the University of Utah.
It’s possible there could be some sour grapes here on Chancellor Young’s part when it comes to the Utah Utes.
Young does seem to have it out for Utah without much logic behind it — as the author found in his extensive research. He says it’s because Utah can’t hang academically and because the geography of the Pac 12 doesn’t work — both of which don’t add up. And why would Young get all worried about academics all of the sudden after he added Arizona and ASU in the ’70s?
Who knows the real reason Chuck Young is on this odd mission to oppose expansion — especially considering it’s a done deal and contracts have been signed. Now that he’s almost 80, I’m not sure why he would want to leave this as his legacy. He’s going to be remembered as the cranky former UCLA chancellor who couldn’t keep his mouth shut when the PAC attempted to come into the 21st Century. Strange legacy indeed.
No other school is throwing a fit about it like the Bruins.

CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
With the last name of Young, he just might be LDS and a BYU alum...
… dun, dun, duuuunnn! :)
That would account for the Ute hatred though.
by FeloniousMonk on Aug 27, 2010 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions
I've noticed that same anti-Utah bent from UCLA
Is is a UCLA thing, or a Bruinsnation thing?
I keep accidentally eating my pets. Maybe I should get something less appetizing, like a cat instead of a Twinkie.
Sort-of-daily sort-of-funny sort-of-thoughts at danoftheday.com
Its all about school colors!!
Wouldn’t you have a complex if your primary school color was powder blue. They are just jealous!
powder blue baby blue
_________________________________________________________________________‎
"You can't sanction heart, and you can't sanction the will to win" - USC QB, Matt Barkley
Nailed it!
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Aug 28, 2010 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions
What kind of powder do you think he was talking about?

by atomsareenough on Aug 28, 2010 11:54 PM PDT up reply actions
Baby Powder Blue
I guess we’re both right
_________________________________________________________________________‎
"You can't sanction heart, and you can't sanction the will to win" - USC QB, Matt Barkley
There are times when I really don’t know what to make of this place. A thread like this blows up (despite numerous long threads about expansion), while threads actually discussing the Cal football field that takes the field in just over a week have low double digit comments….
A few thoughts:
1. A lot of people from outside the Cal community came here today to post and comment. Not going to happen on “Looking at the Cal OLine!” or whatever.
2. People can pass judgment on large, abstract concepts easier than the intricacies of a outside linebacker versus an inside linebacker et al.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Ha, it does tend to be a theme on this blog, though…..
by Missing Barry on Aug 27, 2010 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions
threads actually discussing the Cal football field that takes the field
So many things to discuss! Momentum turf or field turf? How blue should the end zones be?
I like them this blue but my friends like them THIS blue
CGB: Come join the LOLigarchy
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions
Ruskies opinion: Pac-China, Big SEC, Big 10 + 10, and Big Softie

Salve Caesar Augustus Kiffinus!
Ad astra per aspera
That's crazy!
There’s no way Utah should be in the Pac-China!
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Aug 27, 2010 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
That would be hard to choose where to live.
Be landlocked and part of Canada—No.
Be part of Mexico—No
I love the westcoast, but to be under the Chinese and Communism—No
I don’t like the eastcoast, but being under EU might be the best option.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
Aside from the East Coast Media
I’m a Baltimore adoptee back in Utah due to health issues but I have to say the West has a lot to learn from the East about Mass Transit & preserving Ethnicity… San Francisco is a fine example of preserving Ethnic neighborhoods. Hard coming back to a bi-ethnic state after experiencing double digit ethnicity… I missing being able to find 5 star Italian, Greek, German, Thai, Russian, Jewish, Southern, Chicago & NY Pizza and authentic Philly Steaks and then you have all the local fare like Crabcakes, Pit Ham, Pit Turkey, Pit Beef…
by Ravenous Ute on Sep 22, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Goes to show what he knows, considering that a few years ago there was a significant sentiment in Canada that they were heading towards a split and the question was whether any of the component parts would consider asking to join the US.
Also, there is not a chance on God’s green earth that anyone from W VA, Kentucky, Tennessee, either of the Carolinas, or anywhere in Virginia that was more than 24 miles from DC (or Charlottesville) would consent to be associated with anyone to the north, far less the European Union, given the choice.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
hahahaha
What a joke. I did a whole study on this same subject my Sophmore year of college…
The pacific coast would be mostly its own entity. no further east of the sierras and cascades for the greater portion of it. Nevada and parts of eastern washington, oregon, western montana, northern Idaho and maybe part of Arizona would possibly be included too. (defensively speaking, anyone coming from the east would have to go across mad deserts and over mountains in order to invade, so this is the traditional approach to the potential of it) Alaska would ally itself with “Cascadia” as it could potentially be called. British Colombia could also break off and join, seeing as they dont like their Texas-like redneck toothless sister, Alberta a whole lot. Alaska may or may make itself sovereign, or a protectorate of ‘Cascadia’
The southeast and northeast would claim dividing lines just like in the 1850s… They’d divide the plains states up amongst themselves.
Arizona and New Mexico might be either part of the “new South” or join with Cascadia.
Utah would attempt to be independant, and Colorado would try it’s best to ally itself with other rocky mountain states, and be part of Cascadia.
Either way… dividing lines would not be set around current state borders, and would instead be created based on Geographic lines, such as deserts, mountains, and rivers.
Either way, Cascadia would be the place to be, for obvious reasons… So who cares about those wackos on the other side of the rockies…
Drew: 'Oh no.. That is certainly the meaty part alright, but it's not the thigh..."
Randy: "No... that bone is NOT connected to the thigh bone..."
www.fearthefin.com
Bobby Crosby is my Cousin
www.athleticsnation.com
by SeanCrosby87 on Aug 28, 2010 3:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Freaking MASTERPIECE!
I’m surprised that ex-Chancellor Young didn’t use the “cost of oil” argument in all this. Or “tea in China”? WTF?
Besides, what the heck are two old farts doing contemplating the future of 18-year olds and college football coaches? This whole Dickey article has Viagra written all over it! And they should seriously lay off the shit!
"Fun fact: My grandma actually had 7 carries for 79 yards and one TD last year against Stanford. The (Oregon Ducks) spread option just works like that, but it helped that she’s pretty scrappy" (JShufelt- Addicted to Quack)
Why?
This was a well written rebuttal. I read this about a week ago when a BYU fan was telling me that Utah wasn’t going to the PAC 12 (because BYU is the little sister of Utah). I dismissed it as nothing but some upset former Chancellor ranting about something that he couldn’t change.
Do you wonder why ex-Chancellor Young might be upset at the University of Utah? He was replaced as President of Florida by President J. Bernard Machen who was the President of the University of Utah prior to going to Florida. You might want to that to your reasons that Young is wrong.
He is also a old fart that doesn’t want to accept change. I don’t think that anyone will take him too seriously.
It is nice to see all of the PAC 10 support for Utah. It will be a welcome change for us. Thanks.
by SLCUte on Aug 27, 2010 7:47 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
Rec’d
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Aug 27, 2010 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
I am starting to get real tired of hearing about BYU.
"John, I was first team All-State. I can put the ball anywhere I want to. I'll make it rain out here." - Jeremy Grey
by SoCalCoug on Aug 27, 2010 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions 4 recs
You, me and at least 98% of Utah fans. *
BYU was butt-hurt over Utah getting the invite and some attention in the media, so what do they do? They damn-near destroy two conferences, without even making an official statement, just to get the attention they so desperately desire. Like a fat kid throwing a tantrum in the middle of a Toys R Us. I never gave a pinch about them before and I sure as shit don’t now.
*Those two percent are made up of fair-weather, bandwagon jumpin’ turds.
by FeloniousMonk on Aug 27, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions
To be honest, I was wholly neutral about Utah joining until some geriatric baby blue jackass decided it was a bad thing. Welcome!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I agree with expansion, I disagree with Young, but...
don’t blame everyone else for Cal athletics’ inability to operate in the black
Incredible article, Twist!
This one one needs to go into the CGB Hall of Fame!
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
Great article
Coming from a Buff fan, great to see you guys giving us some respect. Over on the Big 12 blogs, they link to this and say “Haha.” Looking forward to 2012(11?)
Todd "my goatee is better than Youkilis" Helton
-Jamey Carroll, 10/24/07
Intern, Ubaldo Lovers Club

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