CGB Hall of Fame: Desean Jackson vs Jahvid Best
by Avinash Kunnath on Jul 4, 2010 3:00 AM PDT
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What better way to celebrate the Fourth of July with two of the most dazzling Golden Bears ever to play at Memorial clashing in the Sweet 16? Vote now!
Desean's road: beat Milica Vukadinovic 170-57, beat Theo Robertson 206-82.
Jahvid's road: first round bye, beat Deltha O'Neal 151-73.
Voting ends Friday at noon PT. Click here to view the full bracket.
MinerNiner presents the case for Desean.
Perhaps no other skill player in Cal history instilled as much fear and respect into opposing defenses and special teams coverages as DeSean Jackson. Opening day starter as a true freshman. His first two career touches went for touchdowns against Sacramento State. Led the Bears in receiving as a sophmore with 59 catches for 1,060 yards and nine touchdowns as set a Cal record with four punt returns for touchdowns. Perhaps his greatest play was a 77 yard punt return against Tennessee in 2007 that went for a touchdown. Some consider him an enigma during his Junior year, in which the Cal football team collapsed in the second half of the season, however, his overall body of work is not to be ignored. He departed holding Pac-10 records for punts returned for a touchdown both in a season (four), and in a career (six). Jackson ranks third all-time at California for receiving yards with 2,423 and receiving touchdowns with 22. He is sixth in receptions (162). Jackson finished with 52 career plays of 20 yards or more, making up 23 percent of his 226 touches.
There's not much need to introduce Jahvid to you, but we'll do it anyway. Here's what some random dope wrote about him.
Best seems to always have one mode: Fast. He ran fast. He cut fast. He caught fast. He leapt fast. He even interviewed fast. He's the prototypical Internet-generation athlete!
He was a one man instrument of warfare, like that sniper in Saving Private Ryan. In a blink of an eye, he took teams out of games. We can count the games, the names, the teams he left burning on the turf in his wake. CSU '08. Wazzu '08. Furd '08. Washington '08. Miami '08. Maryland '09. Minnesota '09. UCLA '09. Opposing fans probably felt a little helpless once the Jet found the seams and broke loose--it was hardly a fair fight once Xs and Os crumbled into the 100 m dash.
I don't think I've ever seen a football player take over a football game by himself the way Jahvid did with the liabilities he had to nurse from everyone. He was hampered with a generally weak offensive line (especially in the interior) and a terribly hamstrung quarterback situation. Even Desean had a fairly accurate Longshore throwing to him much of his career. Best had to win many games on his own (and when I say on his own, he generated around 70 to 80% of their meaningful offense, sometimes even more). The only Bear who had to burden that much of the load in modern times was probably Deltha, and those teams still stunk. One player can't make a team great; it's to Jahvid's credit that he kept the offense running alright with minimal help (Ta'ufo'ou, Mack and Malele in '08, and mmmaybe Summers-Gavin in '09).
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Pretty surprising results thus far. I wonder whether Desean’s professional accolades are having a significant effect. In my opinion, this should be based mostly on what these guys did at Cal. Even then, this is a really tough choice.
Desean brought Cal to its highest point ever, one bonehead play away from being number 1 in the country, and a co-conference championship in 2006. He also was a member of the most disappointing team of the Tedford era, our 2007 masterpiece.
Jahvid on the other hand was the consummate teammate and every bit as explosive as Desean.
That said, I can’t get those punt returns out of my head or how good Cal was from late August 2006 to early October 2007. Desean, by a really slim margin.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
Really?
I like The Jet better, but DeSean fulfilled expectations. Jahvid did great things, but not as much as we thought he’d do. LOVE the highlights, etc., but DeSean (in college only) did all the things we asked of him. That’s why he got my vote.
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
very difficult choice, even though these 2 athletes are of very similar type, and both played in the same decade, it should be easy to compare. Its not like comparing Natalie Coughlin and Aaron Rodgers.
I think DeSean has the edge because of his punt return abilities. He was the BEST return man in the nation.
This is Bull
Mesean lists his school as LB Poly during the beginning of NFL games. F that. He’s not proud to have gone to Cal.
Does no one remember the collapse of the 2007 team. You think MeSean was good in the locker room?
I wish MeSean had never gone to Cal, hes way more USC material. More Igbers and less MeSeans. I can’t believe you people are voting for a douche bag like him.
a lot of these accusations seem like they might be due to people assuming many things. i have no idea how the guy acted off the field. i think it is safe to say that each voter is using many different criteria to weigh their decisions!
Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!
by GoldBlooded on Jul 4, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
You are right, i don’t know what happened in the locker room in 07. Just using the critical thinking skills i was taught at Cal to make what i believe is an informed decision based on circumstantial evidence and ensuing actions/statements.
you know alot of of the reason why he doesnt represent cal as much is becasue of the people who blame him for the 07 collapse he did a interview about it id recommend you to read it
so im a pussy for being not liking a player who would rather give a shout out to his high school?
M O R O N
If you mean, “The broadcasters keep using the one clip he said calling out to LB Poly,” then you’d be correct.
He has called out his praise to Cal and Tedford many times. All because his video intro doesn’t praise Cal before every game on Sunday doesn’t mean he doesn’t care about Cal at all.
Anyway, he gets my vote mainly because he set more records and did slightly more than Jahvid while at Cal. Others might feel the same way, hence why he’s winning the poll.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
Bleacher Report has personally always came off as sketchy journalism, but Wilner is a total joke.
Besides, it doesn’t matter who else has bad feelings to the guy in general. I was talking about the poll.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
I used to agree with you, until I saw that Wilner also has the same beliefs. Now, I know with 100% certainty that the opposite is true. DeSean Jackson is the Mother Teresa of football. But nicer.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
This part of Wilner’s piece caught my eye:
The Trojans are a big-ego program. Carroll and his players thrive under pressure and live for the spotlight.
Cal does not. It seems to me that Tedford, his staff and players are all much more comfortable away from the glare and everything it brings: top-five rankings, media attention, huge expectations.
Yeah, Wilner. Tedford hates winning. Whatevs.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
LOLBLEACHER REPORT
LOLWILNER
Read my Cal blog: http://since59.blogspot.com/ Go Bears!
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, is back on the "Alex Hinshaw lefty" career plan.
Stop using a derogatory term originally coined by USC fans (MeSean) to describe a Cal player. Almost makes it seem like you’re a USC troll.
I’d be much more sympathetic to your argument but for one fact: Desean’s teams accomplished A LOT more than Jahvid’s teams. Yes, we can look back at the 2007 collapse, but it was only an epic collapse because of all that team had accomplished—thanks largely to Desean’s efforts—during the first half of the season.
Desean MAY have been a significant part of the problem, but he was also the primary reason that that team was in a position to fall so far in the first place.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 7, 2010 10:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Besides the locker room stuff which may or may not be true, my issue with Desean was that he acted like a diva on the field. On more than one occasion, he didn’t even try to block on runs or for the rest of his receiving core. Or when the play wasn’t designed to go to him, the defense could tell because he’d dog it on his route.
On the other hand, you have Best who was humble, classy, and as team-first a guy as you’ve ever seen. You think Desean would have played gunner for the punt coverage team?
Desean was a great wide receiver and probably the best punt returner that Cal has ever had (although I’d love to have seen Deltha under Tedford). But if you have to pick one guy for the HOF, I’d rather honor Jahvid Best – someone that I can be proud of with no reservations or second-guessing.
Irate Toothmonger - Will get all up in your business for food
come on, let’s not start this argument again. We’re talking about accomplishments here, not personality. Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, etc. etc., the list goes on and on. People aren’t elected to Halls of Fame because they were nice and courteous. It’s due to on-the-field accomplishments, and DeSean just fits the bill slightly more than Jahvid.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
I think for early baseball players, being a racist, physically violent asshole actually HELPED you get into the Hall Of Fame.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
It certainly helped win votes from racist, physically violent asshole sportswriters.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
Babe Ruth certainly had a reputation as a drinker and a womanizer, but I am not aware of him being accused of being violent or racist (at least no more racist than the average white American of his time). Nor have I ever heard that he was anything but well-liked by his teammates and respected by other players. It’s unfair to dump him into the same category as Ty Cobb who was, by all accounts, a despicable person.
Exit, Pursued By A Bear
Kodiak is talking about accomplishments. He’s talking about Jackson’s accomplishments as a blocker, and his accomplishments as a team player. A player’s personality is reflected in their playing efforts and style.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
A player’s personality is reflected in their playing efforts and style.
Playing style’s really got nothing to do with it. In terms of personality – Barry Bonds was an asshole, but Larry Fitzgerald is (i’m told) a really nice guy. Both put in tons of effort, and both are incredible athletes who put up monster numbers. Personality doesn’t really dictate all that much. Work ethic, yes. Personality, no.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
If a player has a lazy personality, that can also be displayed in their playing style. Personality is a factor when it comes to accomplishments.
Bottom line, I think we’re both right. The issue is that you’re using a different definition of “personality”. You’re using a clearly off-the-field definition (dude is an asshole to the press and fans, etc. etc.) whereas I’m using an on-the-field definition (dude is lazy generally and therefore also plays lazy).
So if you take a moment to consider what I’m saying, then yes, personality DOES matter.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
And for christ’s sake. I was with the team when DJ was around. I saw his personality. I saw his work effort. Most of you guys just speculate as to what he was like. I saw it first hand. I know what DJ was like. I know whether he was a team player or not. I know whether he was lazy or not. I know whether these “rumors” about his personality are true or not. I know whether his personality had an effect on both himself and the team, or not.
I think too many of our Cal fans are willing to give DJ a free pass because he’s so good. That he is. He’s very good. He was good in college and in the NFL. That fact blinds a lot of Cal fans. So many Cal fans aren’t willing to even consider the thought that he might not have been that great of a teammate. That’s something Cal fans need to work harder on doing. The evidence is out there in the games too. You don’t need to just have seen him in practice.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
So many Cal fans aren’t willing to even consider the thought that he might not have been that great of a teammate.
Hydro, how crucial do you believe being a good teammate has been to team success?
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Jul 5, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
I think it’s fairly crucial. Good teammates will motivate others when they are slacking or lacking in motivation. Good teammates will lead by example and by words. Good teammates will stay out of trouble and set a good example, and other guys will stay out of trouble. Good teammates will be team players and not be just about their personal stats. They’ll want a win rather than another touchdown for their stats. A team’s success depends heavily on the team, and a prima donna is less about the team than their self. Often, a prima donna might want the team to win and mistakenly interpret their desire for their team to win as them being a team player, but the manner in which they want the team to win is really what is indicative. A team player would rather have the team win by letting others do the scoring if needed.
Bottom line, football is a team sport. You need guys that will work together as team and not just be an individual.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
The problem with this argument, though, is that more championships have probably been won by teams featuring a superstar prima donna than by squads full of great “team players”. The latter, more often than not, are the ones going home in second place. Even in the context of a team, competition breeds—and maybe even requires—assholishness. The prima donnas are prone to failing spectacularly, but when things go well, their attitude, combined with their sublime talent, makes them unbeatable.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 7, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Sorry for getting so heated, but it’s quite clear to me that personality is factor in a player’s on-the-field success.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
For polls like this, I beg to differ. We’re judging excellence in a specific endeavor—not the totality of one’s life—and on the football field, excellence is defined, pure and simple, by wins. And Desean was the key contributor to one of the best seasons-and-a-half that Cal football has witnessed since the days of Pappy Waldorf.
Now, I don’t doubt that his attitude was central to the team’s collapse post Oregon State in ‘07. And that definitely brought his Cal career to a sour end. Before that half-season, however, there is no question that, “good teammate” or not, the balance of Desean Jackson’s contributions was overwhelmingly on the side of victories, not losses.
While I never realistically thought he’d return for his senior season, Cal’s chances of winning conference and/or national championships in 2008 fell to zero when he decided to enter the draft.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 7, 2010 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions
We’re talking about accomplishments here, not personality.
As far as I know, there are no established criteria for what people are supposed to be evaluating when they decide for whom to cast their CGB Hall of Fame votes. In the absence of any such criteria, I don’t see anything wrong with taking “personality” into consideration.
Exit, Pursued By A Bear
It’s due to on-the-field accomplishments, and DeSean just fits the bill slightly more than Jahvid.
Perhaps I should have been more clear. I was trying very hard to avoid all the off-the-field stuff, or anything that happened after Cal. I also didn’t mean to address personality as I can’t verify any of that personally.
In my opinion, I feel that Jahvid’s body of work on-the-field as a player is more worthy of CGB HOF-status than Desean’s. In my completely arbitrary and subjective thought process, I feel that every snap that each player participated should be considered as part of their resume. Arguably, Desean has higher highs, especially when you look at some of his mind-blowing punt returns. But, just as indisputably, he has lower lows. Not once, not twice, but on multiple occasions over more than one year, you can find plays where Desean did not give 100% effort. I cannot remember Jahvid Best ever putting less than his full effort when he stepped onto that field wearing our uniform.
I respect what you’re trying to say, BearStage; ignore the “other stuff” and just focus on how they played the game. What I’m saying is that I really am looking at how they played the game – I’m looking at how they played the entire game, not just their final stats or highlight reels.
Irate Toothmonger - Will get all up in your business for food
I dunno I voted for Desean because I feel he was the more skilled football player. Until his final year, I think Jahvid showed too much to be a straight-line speedster without the grind-it-out between the tackles instincts needed for consistent 1st downs. Yeah, his 80 yard runs were amazing but his game needed more JJ Arrington.
Cal Football: Some things, you just accept, repress, and move on.
Fair points. ‘Course, if Jahvid had JJ’s O-line and a QB who prevented the other team from stacking 8-9-10 in the box, I think you’d have to take the record book and just blow that mofo up.
Irate Toothmonger - Will get all up in your business for food
Well, one could easily say the same thing about Desean, if not even more so. Geoff Macarthur and Chase Lyman benefited hugely from a great OL/QB combination, and without NFL careers to show for it, while Desean has done a lot more on the next level.
Can you imagine Desean plus Aaron Rodgers? Frickin scary…
Cal Football: Some things, you just accept, repress, and move on.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Jul 5, 2010 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Also, as of 1139 PM PST on Sunday night, this is exactly 100% tied.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
close but it's Desean
people throw too much salt on Desean’s name he gives shout outs to Cal football all the time ,dude does lots of charity work as well , Dude was a game changer if Longshore could ever get him the ball we would have never seen that colapse
Blame Longshore. Sure. What about the OL who let him get hit which resulted in his injury? What about all the crappy OL blocking in 2007? Positional battles happen everywhere on the field, not just with the guy holding the football.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
i could be wrong. but i wanna say we finished in the top ten in sacks allowed like the least amount of sacks. at one point in the year. and they were great run blockers, longshore hurt his ankle which really puts a strain on stepping into his throws. desean owned when longshore was healthy.
You’re not wrong in noting that we had so few sacks up to that point (Longshore’s injury). But it would be incorrect to attribute that solely to the OL. It was actually quite the opposite. It was actually primarily because of Longshore. One of Longshore’s greatest strengths was his ability to get rid of the football before he was sacked. In many instances, his abilities to get rid of the ball saved the team from a sack despite their errors in blocking. But as 2007 progressed, the OL blocking got worse and worse, as I noted in my many posts way back in 2007. Defenders were getting to Longshore quickly — to quick. And with Longshore hampered by his ankle injury, things started going downhill.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
But as 2007 progressed, the OL blocking got worse and worse, as I noted in my many posts way back in 2007.
It wasn’t just the pass blocking in 2007. All year long in 2007, we had problems in short yardage. It was a substantial change from 2002-2006 when 3rd and short was a confident get.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
Both are great platyers, about equally good. The difference is that Best was an ambassidor for the school whereas DeSean has always distanced himself dfrom Cal. To me, there is no question that I vote for javid.
by One Armed Explorer on Jul 5, 2010 11:32 AM PDT reply actions
Another CGB corollary
With every mention of DeSean in a post, the chance of a complaint about his MNF intro gets closer and closer to 1.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
Whoa.
TIED?
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Jul 5, 2010 10:49 PM PDT reply actions
As of 11 PM on Monday night PST, Jahvid is up by 1 vote 204-205.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
11:28, 205-205!
Cal Football: Some things, you just accept, repress, and move on.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Jul 5, 2010 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions
People Underlook Us
i think I just broke the deadlock and pushed jahvid ahead. a few thoughts. i was at the cal/oregon game in 2007. it was awesome, but i remember the way desean and the rest of the team acted afterwards—and then read in the paper the next day desean quoted as saying “people underlook us.” it was a strange quote considering cal was poised at 6th in the ap if i remember and would be number 2 that coming monday. there was a lack of class in the quote, but also an element of ridiculousness that i think really, as much as longshore’s hurt ankle, precipitated the the terrible skid of 2007.
jahvid’s touchdown at ucla this last season rivals desan’s punt return against tennessee. i mean, it really is a coin-flip. both are freaks of nature physically. desean faded his junior season along with the team, jahvid got hurt his junior year. this might be a reiteration of the question we’re trying to answer, but who would you rather have on the 2010 squad—a healthy jahvid or a college-aged desean? ha. the more i write, the more the riddle bewitches me. my own question backfired, because i answered desean since we need receivers more than we need a running back. i don’t know. tie goes to the nice/humble guy. i’ll stop now before this the question melts my brain.
Putting too much stock in "people overlook us"
is not the best thing (imo) to have a qualm with when it comes to DeSean. While I’ll give you that there are problem with the way he acts, but that quote is found from nearly every team in the country.
Read my Cal blog: http://since59.blogspot.com/ Go Bears!
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, is back on the "Alex Hinshaw lefty" career plan.
I voted for Desean. I have no reason except for I like the cockyness. I like the swagger. By virute of being first, DJax was the first player my friends who barely associate Cal with football knew was a Cal guy. Not even Beast Mode gave us this kind of recognition. In Texas, Desean put us on the map as a football school. I think DJax got my vote just because he paved the way for Jahvid. If Jahvid had come first, he probably would’ve gottne my vote. I can’t get mad – either way, I’m glad BOTH went to Cal.
A surge by Jahvid
Jahvid has an 8-vote lead at the time of this comment. That might be the biggest gap I’ve seen since this vote started.
Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.
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Golden Bears Football Schedule
| Fresno St. | Sat 09/03 | W 36 - 21 |
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Colorado
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| Presbyterian | Sat 09/17 | W 63 - 12 |
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@
Washington
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Sat 09/24 | L 23 - 31 |
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Oregon
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Thu 10/06 | L 15 - 43 |
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USC
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Washington St.
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Sat 11/05 | W 30 - 7 |
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Oregon St.
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Pacific-12 Conference Standings
(updated 1.2.2012 at 11:12 PM PST)
| North | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
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Oregon Ducks
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8 | 1 | 12 | 2 |
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Stanford Cardinal
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8 | 1 | 11 | 2 |
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Washington Huskies
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5 | 4 | 7 | 6 |
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California Golden Bears
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4 | 5 | 7 | 6 |
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Oregon St. Beavers
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3 | 6 | 3 | 9 |
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Washington St. Cougars
|
2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
| South | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
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USC Trojans
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7 | 2 | 10 | 2 |
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UCLA Bruins
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5 | 4 | 6 | 8 |
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Utah Utes
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4 | 5 | 8 | 5 |
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Arizona St. Sun Devils
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4 | 5 | 6 | 7 |
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Arizona Wildcats
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2 | 7 | 4 | 8 |
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Colorado Buffaloes
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2 | 7 | 3 | 10 |
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