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Larry Scott Killed The Pac-16? I Call Shenanigans on Texas

And now here's a story something the Texas-hater in all of us Cal fans should love (although if you want TRUE Texas hating with no basis in reality, check out Clay Travis's Fanhouse takedown that Glanko found).

Chip Brown has apparently written the "definitive take" on conference realignment. And, well what do you know, apparently Texas didn't do nothin' wrong. It was our overambitious, bridge-too-far Pac-10 commissioner Larry Scott!

And Scott and [Pac-10 chief operating officer Kevin] Weiberg made one critical mistake in the courtship of the Big 12. Other than its somewhat foggy math that a 16-team Pac-10 could readily get to $20 million in TV revenue per school, they wanted to substitute Kansas for Oklahoma State late in the process, according to multiple sources in the Big 12.

Texas was really starting to feel queasy now, sources said. UT officials knew deep down Texas A&M wasn't coming to the Pac-10, despite [Texas A&M athletic director] Bill Byrne's assurances, according to sources. And now Scott and Weiberg were looking to dump Oklahoma State in favor of Kansas. If A&M was a no-show, the Pac-10 would add Utah. Scott was looking to add new TV markets, not stick to the deal that was agreed upon a few days earlier.

I don't think I've seen those soccer balls at the World Cup spin as well as that recording of events.

Let me get this straight. Scott, who has apparently been planning expansion for months, decided to make an eleventh hour decision to exclude Oklahoma State and T Boone Pickens for Kansas, even though a spot was already open for Kansas when Texas A&M said no? Why would Scott alienate Oklahoma State with Texas in the bag, who have the mettle with Pickens to make any conference change an unpleasant, possibly unfeasible one?

Seems like shenangians to me. Especially considering the side of the story where Texas doesn't look all sunshine and roses isn't even mentioned in this "definitive take" (more on that after the jump).

Star-divide

Brown went on to expound A&M's possible departure to the SEC as the other factor that most shook Texas.

Texas became the first to blink, backing away from its Pac-10 invitation and reaching out to Texas A&M at the bargaining table. Credit both the Aggies and the Longhorns for realizing the time wasn't right to break up a 100-year rivalry that even includes mentions of each school in the other's fight song.

This part seems a little plausible. Even though Oklahoma is Texas's main rival, the Aggies and Longhorns have still been lumped together for a century.  Imagine if Cal was making the decision to leave for some super conference, but the Furd decided to be their ironic little selves and back out to pursue other opportunities, effectively ending our Big Game rivalry. Could you imagine the outrage Golden Bears fans would feel at losing our annual claim of the Axe?

But I don't really buy that A&M leaving was the breaking point. Peter Bean of Burnt Orange Nation already pointed out how A&M to the SEC would only hurt the Ags, and most Longhorn fans didn't seem to mind leaving the Aggies behind (and vice-versa). Yes, they were probably scared by the bluff, but a dealbreaker? Hardly.

No, considering the reasons for expansion in the first place (revenue and power), it makes little sense that Texas would leave the Pac-16 arrangement simply because of A&M. In cases like these, follow the money people.

We learn from the Texas and Beebe media conferences and some more reporting from sources that ABC/ESPN basically protected its investments and held off college realignment by allowing the 10 schools in the Big 12 to keep all the money ABC/ESPN agreed to pay the league through 2016 when it had 12 members and a conference championship game.

Why would ABC/ESPN agree to such a bad deal? I'm convinced because it didn't want to see Texas and Oklahoma disappear to the Pac-16 conference network likely to be run by Fox. ABC/ESPN, in my opinion, also saw the possibility of realignment coming if the Big 12 fell apart, and that could have led to remodeling the SEC and ACC, conferences in which ABC/ESPN has more than $4 billion tied up in TV contracts.

If the SEC expands by four or the ACC gets picked apart and then remodeled in some merger with the Big East, ABC/ESPN likely has to renegotiate those deals, possibly for more than the $4 billion it had already committed.

Bingo. Unnamed television network finally reveals itself! Who would've thought it'd be them???

But we haven't gotten to checkmate yet, so let's point out the part of the story Brown ignores--how Texas might have made their own set of untenable demands.

A source close to the Pac-10's expansion negotiations told The Denver Post that Texas insisted on better revenue sharing and its own network, which essentially killed the deal.

"In the 11th hour, after months of telling us they understand the TV rights, they're trying to pull a fast one on the verge of sealing the deal in the regents meeting," the source said. "They want a better revenue sharing deal and their own network. Those were points of principle. (The Pac-10) wants to treat everyone fairly. It's been that way for months of discussions."

This makes way more sense than the Longhorn-flavored nonsense being propagated throughout the blogosphere. If Texas and their athletic director DeLoss Dodds was really trying to look for the best possible situation, and if they knew they were getting this great deal from Beebe and ABC/ESPN, AND they knew that it would be better than the total revenue they could possibly get from the expanded Pac-10 conference, then why not go all the way and ask for the impossible? If you get it, you have a leg up on everyone else in the conference; if you don't get it (which you expect to happen), you have your excuse to go, since you get everything you want (better TV revenue, your own channel, etc.) is likely guaranteed with this new settlement.

People value certain short-term gains over long-term gains, and that maxim held true in this circumstance. Texas did the natural thing. They chased the money they'd knew they would get in a weaker dominion they knew they could lord, as opposed to obtaining the money they could theoretically get in a strong conference with constant competition.  A&M seems almost like an afterthought here.

I'm not really annoyed at Brown himself for this congratulatory report; he's a pawn in this game, reporting what he hears from sources who have plenty of reasons to spin their own version of the truth. But anyone who read this article should recognize the Longhorns have a vested interest in reporting this in their own way, especially on their own Rivals site. As Team Speed Kills points out....

Chip Brown was given the scoop on this story by people inside UT that knew what they were doing. Smart move as it set their own Rivals.com affiliate up to be the go-to source for the media on this story, letting UT spin any developments to its advantage. (And a nice little quid pro quo for Brown as he used the scoop to tirelessly shill for subscriptions to his website throughout this story.)

Brown went on to report numerous falsehoods such as:

  • Texas fighting for Baylor to join the Pac 10 over Colorado (never happened)
  • Cal blocking Baylor out of Cal's religious intolerance (smearing a university with something it never did, just for UT to distance itself from never existent Baylor support, as soon as Nebraska was leaving and the Pac 16 might be happening)
  • Brown went on SportsCenter on Thursday (6/10) evening and said that the Pac-16 (including A&M) was basically a done deal; Brown was just parroting the UT party line he was being fed, trying to hurry A&M into a deal A&M was far from signing off on but that UT wanted done in order to keep the SEC out of Texas
  • Brown continued to say the other schools would go to the Pa-16 even without A&M.
  • Brown said Rick Perry was fighting for A&M to the Pac-10. Obviously UT wanted to create this perception publicly to try to lend political authority to their Pac-16 deal. A&M insiders and Perry's office have repeatedly denied he took a side on the matter.
  • What do you know. Even the media that covers Texas football wins!

    Brown has done a fine job reporting what he's been told. He's done exactly what he needs to do in the media world--raise his national profile, raise his status as a college sports reporter, and raise subscriptions for Texas Rivals. He has his place in the expansion game, and he performed admirably. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets his promotion very soon.

    But please Texas, don't insult our intelligence with this revisionism. Don't make us believe THIS is the definitive report on what exactly happened in the 24-48 hours that revived the Big 12. Don't even try to make us believe that Larry Scott killed the Pac-16 with a laughably incredulous decision to exclude the Cowboys for no apparent reason.

    The Longhorns might be the heroes of the Big 12. But that also means they're the goats of the Pac-16.

    Update: Scott released his own statement on the matter a few hours ago. Draw your own conclusions.

    Scott said he believes the expansion to 16 teams with Texas leading the way failed for three reasons.

    "Number One, I think there was a tsunami of Texas political pressure from Texas A&M and Baylor," he said. "Secondly, it's clear there was a great national fear that such a compelling plan would cause dramatic domino affects nationally, with other conferences."

    Lastly, Scott added that he was given some strict parameters to work with by the university leaders who hired him about a year ago.

    "My marching orders were clear. There are essential principles and values the Pac-10 holds true to that we were not going to compromise as part of trying to get a deal done."

    Scott would not elaborate, but it's worth noting that in the Pac-10 revenue is shared equally between members and in the Big 12 the most successful programs such as Texas and Oklahoma make more than the others.

    By staying in the Big 12, Texas will be allowed to start its own television network and keep all revenues from it.

    Scott said that would not have been the case if Texas joined the Pac-10.

    "Schools ultimately make decisions for what's best for them," he said.

    Poll
    Who do you blame the most for the breakup of the Pac-16?
    Texas
    716 votes
    Texas A&M
    45 votes
    The TV networks
    221 votes
    Dan Beebe
    50 votes
    Larry Scott
    68 votes
    Another party.
    65 votes

    1165 votes | Poll has closed

    Comment 230 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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    Comments

    Display:

    Rec’d because I thoroughly agree with the analysis and conclusions.

    by chowder on Jun 16, 2010 6:17 PM PDT reply actions  

    Furthermore, I wasn’t hating on Texas for the failure of the Pac-16, they established their own kingdom complete with peasants (Baylor, Kansas, K-State, Missouri, and Iowa State), middle-class (Texas Tech & OSU), and royal court (Oklahoma & Texas A&M). After this the Chip Brown article and the Larry Scott smear campagin, and pro-Texas spin campaign, I have become slightly more resentful.

    by chowder on Jun 16, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Considering who feeds Chip’s mouth, of course he will claim that Texas is the innocent party in all this. Doesn’t change the fact that they’ve pissed off their alumni and the other schools that were ready to join the Pac.

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 16, 2010 8:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think their plan all along was to get an easier go-ahead for the Longhorn Network. If it’s already up and running, then that has to be included in any deal that brings them to a new conference. All this does is ensure that they have an easier path to success while this thing takes off. Better team = Better numbers for TLN.

    But if the Pac wants a network and the B10 already has one… They may have either shot themselves in the foot or paved the way for Independence…

    California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Although in their defense, it’s plausible to argue that a 16 team mega conference might have scheduling issues with just 1 network. They might figure that with eventual consolidation into mega-conferences, the trend will be for the biggest schools to have their own network to ensure the broadest media coverage.

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 17, 2010 2:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Except it doesn't go far enough....

    ….Chip’s numbers are the fuzzy ones. The current Big XII contract divided by 10 doesn’t = “$14 to $17 million per school, does it?” Not by a long shot.

    by ososdeoro on Jun 17, 2010 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Rec'd with enthusiasm

    Great analysis. Nails it, IMO.

    Look, I’m not gonna hat on Texas. If they were pulling strings to do what was best for itself and only itself, that’s fine. Really, it is. They were looking out for number one, which isn’t inherently evil.

    But what irks me is the sentiment that the Pac-10 and Larry Scott somehow blew this deal or were the ones who drove Texas back to the supposed security and riches of the new Big 12 Lite. I’d basically concluded that Brown was a tool by the time the Pac-16 was killed. But if I hadn’t, the clincher would have been reading Brown’s contention that the Pac-10’s revenue numbers were “foggy math.” Really? So we are supposed to believe that the projected revenue of a Pac-16 is more “foggy” than the Big 12 Lite’s purported INCREASE in revenue from having fewer teams, including losing one of the most high profile programs (Nebraska) in existence? Whatever, Chipper.

    Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

    by Ohio Bear on Jun 16, 2010 6:29 PM PDT reply actions  

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/2010/6/14/1517190/texas-to-stay-in-bigxii#

    I had commented on this issue earlier and tried to figure out what the payout per game would be. Because more teams doesn’t necessarily mean more games. The scenarios vary differently, but anyways here is my analysis:

    I analyzed the number of games a 16 team conference would be playing. Which as near as I can tell is 120 games (two 8 team round robins, 2 cross divisionals per team, 3 OOC). Assuming that we take the $20M number per team that would be $2.67M PER GAME that a network would pay out. Now that doesn’t include a potential Championship game, which could be a winfall for a network (upwards of 10-20$M per year). So given that this number is significantly higher than the high end estimate Beebe is touting his number make sense.

    Now it’s Larry Scott’s turn to throw a curve ball. Offer UT an extra $500k-$1M per team from the Pac-16 to boost their take to $25-30M. That’ll win em over. I’ll take $19M over $20M any day if it means I don’t miss out and end up with only 10$M

    My analysis for current Big 12-2 contract follows:

    OKay, so if this plan of Beebe’s was to work I figured out their range. Since the revenue sharing is unequal and ESPN is reporting that UT, OU, and TA&M are basically being guaranteed $20M per year that implies that the other teams are taking a backseat and taking a hit relative to them. That number is reported to be 14-17M still way more than they make now. So that means that the minimum payout by ESPN Fox is $158M and as much as $184M per year.

    Crunched those numbers in comparison to the total number of OOC and regular season games in the Pac-10 last year (a comparable schedule to what the new Big-12 will play) (71 games) and then crunched the numbers for the SEC last season (97 games) to see what the pay out was PER game:

    SEC last year:
    $2.27M per game last year

    Saved Big 12 would have to make between $2.23M and $2.59M PER GAME. So that is in the SEC range AND ABOVE.

    If Beebe has been able to negotiate THAT rate for the Big-12 for a new contract than he is a master negotiator to beat out the SEC’s record contract.

    by PlayClassyBears on Jun 17, 2010 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I used a PER GAME rubric because it most effectively illustrates what the networks are interested in: Game time. That would be their metric in terms of what they pay for. Now you could multiply that out by the number of households (NOH) which I’ve seen analyzed elsewhere (linky?). If my fuzzy memory serves the Big 10 was somewhere in the 20-22% population range the Pac-16 would have been somewhere around ~26%. So a higher per game rate might have been justified for the Pac-16. I’m not sure what the NOH numbers will be for the Big 12-2. But it would be interesting to see if these PER GAME numbers I calculated hold up when NOH are taken into consideration.

    by PlayClassyBears on Jun 17, 2010 9:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

    NOH number can’t be nearly as high as a Pac-16 would’ve been for a Big 12-2. It’s not that Beebe is a master negotiator, it’s that the networks threw bags of money at him to avoid having to dole out even bigger paydays to any megaconferences.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Great article.

    It is a breath of fresh air to read something that has not been altered by big brother Texas in regards to expansion. At this point, Texas has proven that they can force the other schools in the Big-12 to believe that 2+2=5, that is evident through the absurd deal that Mizzou and all of the others agreed upon.

    Self-anointed President of the Kenjon Barner fan club.

    by CaDuck on Jun 16, 2010 6:31 PM PDT reply actions  

    What a bunch of assholes.

    I’ve gone from hating Mack Brown to full-on Texass hatred. Slimy slimy, but I guess that is to be expected from the good ol’ boys club.

    Good job calling out Chip Brown for the role he played.

    MCCLESKEY!!

    by Paulie on Jun 16, 2010 6:33 PM PDT reply actions  

    My feelings are indifferent with Brown

    He did what a good reporter does—report what he heard and his interpretation of events. Kind of wish he took precautions before publishing the spin.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 16, 2010 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

    This This This. So This.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Rec'd because it's a fundamental truth to productive discourse

    Brown did nothing to advance bringing the facts to light; he acted as a flack for Texas (read: Powers and Dodds).

    Brown was not a journalist. Consumers of the news need to understand when someone calling himself/herself a “journalist” is actually no more than a PR man/woman.

    by FiatSlug on Jun 17, 2010 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

    This is why I didn’t want anything to do with texass! I use to work with a bunch of them and they ALWAYS thought they were better than others and keep your eyes on them at all times!

    by calas on Jun 16, 2010 9:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

    the Oklahoma St rumor

    is almost certainly bogus. I only wish I had confirmation on it. Total blame deflection move by Texas, and if they push any harder I’d expect some clear denials from our end. My guess is it gets buried and the league doesn’t want to get into a pissing match, but there’s almost no way it’s not total bullshit.

    Mr Pac Ten's Blog - 2007 2008 2009

    by MrPacTen on Jun 16, 2010 7:26 PM PDT reply actions  

    Dead-on, Avi. Nicely done.

    by Kodiak on Jun 16, 2010 7:39 PM PDT reply actions  

    Epicly fuck Chip Brown

    This is the same guy passing out links for previews of OB.com when he knew everyone interested in the deal was watching his tweets.

    Now suddenly Texas is the guy with the white hat saving poor ’ol Pokie U from a life of mediocrity after months upon months of careful strategic planning.

    No, sir. Brown is a class-A prick after what I’ve seen him evolve to during this whole ordeal. I understand there are certain things you have to do to keep your rivals site in good with the program, but blatantly transferring blame like this is just trashy.

    California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 7:58 PM PDT reply actions  

    Again, Brown did not transfer blame. He reported what some source within the Texas athletic department told him.

    So it seems like your beef would be with the source.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 16, 2010 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I know what you're getting at, and you're exactly right.

    My problem is with him getting one source, running to tweet it out without looking for any counterpoints, then making that the gospel.

    His job is to fish out rumors and make the paying public aware, yes, but I’m just bewildered at the lack of journalistic integrity. Not jus by him, but by everyone doing the same thing… “let’s get this rumor out before anyone else” “what if it’s not true?” “that’s why we say it’s a rumor!”

    California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

    So it seems like your beef would be with the source.

    Why can’t it be both? If Brown was basically the mouthpiece of the source, he was little more than a tool and essentially allowed himself to be that.

    Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

    by Ohio Bear on Jun 16, 2010 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Welcome to Journalism 101

    o=========<| BBBBBBEARZZZZZZ

    by Thoroughbred on Jun 16, 2010 9:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Brown said he added 10,700 subscribers to his site through this

    he hopes 50% of them will become paying subscribers, and pay $10 a month

    if that happens, he stands to make half a million or more off being the texas mouthpiece

    I would call that a sizable conflict of interest.

    by Beergut on Jun 18, 2010 2:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

    sorry, read that wrong

    he said he has 700 new subscribers, bringing his total to 10,700

    if half become paying members, he makes an extra $42,000

    still not bad for a few days work

    by Beergut on Jun 18, 2010 3:01 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I concur. He can put forward the viewpoints espoused by his sources, but should provide greater context as to how they would get these thoughts and what he thought the liklihood of them becoming reality. The journalistic angle is putting your own thoughts in there about what you perceive.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 18, 2010 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Good TAMU Q&A

    http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/sports/local/100616-a%26m’s-byrne-opens-up-about-new-big-12

    Texas has had 14 years to pull off the Longhorn Network and hasn’t been able to do it and I doubt they ever will.

    by bayonnefran on Jun 16, 2010 8:57 PM PDT reply actions  

    This makes much sense.
    Thank you for the link!

    California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Rec'd because Chip Brown is a first class douche

    And Texas’ media mouthpiece for the last week and a half.

    I guarantee you this thing wasn’t as close to happening as Brown said it was.

    Also, I love how the massive number of things he said that were wrong were somehow OK because shockingly he got the final story right first.

    But also screw Stewart Mandel and Dan Wetzel for linking his bulls*** “This is how it went down” column. You guys are mainstream media. Wake up and realize what’s going on.

    by Grady Clapp on Jun 16, 2010 9:10 PM PDT reply actions  

    Hahahahahaha

    Do we get logos?

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 16, 2010 9:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Hahahahaha. Awesome.

    by Scootie on Jun 16, 2010 9:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Win!

    In other words, Go Bears!

    by royrules22 on Jun 17, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

    My take:

    I don’t care so much about all this expansion mess. As long as I get to see my Bears play football 12-14 times a year, I’m cool with it. But that incredibly idiotic, stereotypical crack at Cal’s reputation (through Baylor’s religious affiliation) is something I’m not about to forget. And I hope it didn’t get much more credence than your random twitter disparagement.

    Not the sharpest tools in the shed, these ESPN-types (but that’s to be expected). Lots of flash and no substance. Or maybe more correctly: the flash is the substance and everyone is hooked…

    o=========<| BBBBBBEARZZZZZZ

    by Thoroughbred on Jun 16, 2010 9:33 PM PDT reply actions  

    Texas and Larry Scott are villains cut from the same greedy cloth.

    Difference — Texas got over on us, the Big XXII and every Big XXII school. Larry Scott got played, and ultimately hurt our conference.

    The watered down Pac-10 now has to share revenues with two additional schools that won’t add much (maybe not even a single dollar) to their current TV contract, and won’t contribute anything in basketball. Do we really believe ESPN, ABC or anyone else is now more fired up over the prospect of airing Pac-10 games just because the Utes and Buffs are in the conference? Puh-lease. Maybe Texas or OU would mean more money, but the new Pac-10 schools don’t exactly have TV viewers locked in and advertisers lined up. And they surely don’t fill stadiums like the other Big 12 programs do.

    On top of all that, the existing 10 schools won’t all play each other every year. There will be four years between road trips to the Arizona schools, Utah and Colorado, and vice versa. Might as well not even be in the same conference. Throw in a conference title game that will serve as a pitfall game to take down a Pac-10 team that might otherwise get a top-flight bowl game. Increase the odds against any one team winning the conference.

    What exactly is the pay-off?

    Larry Scott essentially just screamed out to the world that we in the Pac-10 are no different than the other money-first conferences. We put revenue way ahead of tradition, academics, sportsmanship, geographical logic, pretty much anything.

    How can we even criticize U$C with a straight face in light of all this? How can we blame Reggie Bush for getting paid when the head of our conference, the University of Texas, and everyone else in this whole fiasco has made perfectly clear that’s all any of them care about?

    We’re filthy, and I guess we’re getting what we deserve.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 16, 2010 10:32 PM PDT reply actions  

    Larry Scott essentially just screamed out to the world that we in the Pac-10 are no different than the other money-first conferences. We put revenue way ahead of tradition, academics, sportsmanship, geographical logic, pretty much anything.

    I understand and respect that you’re against expansion, but how does adding Colorado and Utah damage the academics and sportsmanship of UC Berkeley?

    I’m not thrilled about the Pac-12, but none of this will change how Cal treats their student athletes. Sandy Barbour is still AD, all our coaches are still in charge. Cal athletes will continue to succeed in sports and in the classroom. Expansion will change none of that.

    The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS

    by norcalnick on Jun 16, 2010 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

    RE sportsmanship...

    When you even attempt to put together a college conference based solely on TV revenue potential, you are tossing aside sportsmanship in favor of profit. Sportsmanship here being the idea of competition on the field for the purpose of sport — as opposed to mass market entertainment merely taking the form of sport. A Pac-16 including the Sooners and Longhorns was nothing more than a potential marriage of greed — not pursuit of the beauty that is sport.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 16, 2010 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Monica’s Dad, do not forget NorCalNick’s great post on Ronnie Knox and the PCC:


    The world of college football prior to the 1950s was very different than is was now – a landscape with few rules and less enforcement. The NCAA had very little if any direct oversight over individual programs, and the organization didn’t gain any kind of enforcement power until the 50s. Accusations of under the table payments, perks, and semi-professional ‘students’ ran rampant.

    The list of perks promised to Ronnie are long and strange: His step-father Harvey Knox was hired as a scout, Ronnie’s high school coach was hired as an assistant on Cal’s staff, Ronnie was promised a job writing for the Berkeley Gazette and he was promised $500 a year from the Grid Club. The University and the PCC discovered these perks and stopped them before they began, but the damage was done. After one season playing for the Cal freshmen team Ronnie transferred to UCLA when he wasn’t immediately granted the position of starting quarterback as a Sophomore.

    We haven’t had sportsmanship over profit in a LONG, LONG, LONG, LONG, LONG, LONG, LONG time in college sports. Deny that all you want, but it is simply the truth.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 16, 2010 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Always have been and always will be cheaters, I guess, but...

    extending that logic to justify joining in on the action bothers me. There’ve always been bad sports — might as well join ’em. There have always been cheaters. Might as well join ’em.

    Better solution offered up the other day (I think it was carp) — the NFL should have a minor league so people who need to play for money can go do that elsewhere and let us have our amateur sports and protect the integrity of our institutions.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 16, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think you are looking at my point differently. I wasn’t trying to use the point of the ROnnie Knox post to say Cal should cheat. Or is cheating. Or in any way trying to justify cheating.

    Merely that money has permeated “amateur” football for a LONG time and what we are seeing these days is merely a further extension of that.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 16, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Well said

    Rec’d

    Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

    by Ohio Bear on Jun 17, 2010 5:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

    When you even attempt to put together a college conference based solely on TV revenue potential, you are tossing aside sportsmanship in favor of profit.

    That’s a total strawman and a non sequitur.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Also, you’re arguing that Scott made a move that will lose the Pac-10 money, then accuse him of being ‘money-first.,’

    The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS

    by norcalnick on Jun 16, 2010 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Scott`s motive may be money, but money is the only way to keep up with the other BCS conferences. Idealism is fine and dandy, but idealism isn`t going to keep us on a level playing field, especially in the recruitment of potential players and coaches, and construction of new facilities. We can`t compete with billion dollar conferences having thousand dollar budgets.

    California Golden Blogs! It`s dat Woo WHOOOOO!

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 10:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

    U$C's facilities suck just like ours. Why do they keep getting recruits?

    The financial arms race mentality is natural, but really has no place in non-professional sports. I don’t care about keeping up with any other conference. I’d prefer to remain better than them — and just beat USC and Stanford.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 16, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

    But we aren`t beating USC, and if you look at last year, Stanfurd is dangerously close to par with us. Kids go to a place like SC or Notre Dame because they are national brands. Berkeley isn’t a national brand, sometimes even academically surprisingly.

    This isn`t about getting a few kids to come play for us because they feel a deep loyalty to Berkeley, this is about getting kids to elevate our status so that we might be able to grab a bigger slice of pie to help the guys on the water polo team out, or to help our volleyball bears get to Tennessee to compete.

    Sportsmanship isn’t a major factor in things these days, though it might be needed more than ever.

    California Golden Blogs! Objectivity. Some journalists have yet to be introduced.

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

    My understanding is that the Pac12 channel would be set up similar to the Big Ten Channel. Now, peopel can correct me if I am wrong. However, if that is true, the fact that we are bringing in two new markets in Denver and Salt Lake City is HUGE. Because the way the Big Ten Channel is set up, you don’t have people who subscribe to the channel. You have people who subscribe to a cable package and are FORCED to take on that channel. Here is information from theBig Ten Channel website:

    Q—Will I have to pay more for the Big Ten Network?

    A— The cost of the Big Ten Network will be included in the fees that subscribers pay for their basic level of cable or satellite service, or in the case of DIRECTV, the Total Choice package.

    So, the more potential viewers (and that appears to be the huge key word there, potential) that Scott can bring into negotiations, the better his hand would be. That si why the Pac16 would have been a bank buster and ESPN/Fox fought against it. They’d rather overpay for the BigXII than have to pay the redick sums that a Pac16 woulda brought.

    So, bringing in the two new media markets in Colorado and Utah are pretty huge, if Iunderstand this TV situation correctly (and by all means people, do not hesitate to correct me).

    Also, Monica’s Dad, you know I love you and you know I love your photography. But I feel as if your thoughts are very, very extreme here. I know that this change has negatives to it. I myself would be frustrated if we are limtied in our SoCal matchups. But if the Pac10 does nothing, we fall further and further behind. Scott had no choice but to be aggressive here. I wish you would show some recognition of that fact, instead of continuing to be so incredibly negative about the situation here. I ask solely that.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 16, 2010 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

    The numbers are large, yes....

    But remember California dwarfs everything. CO and UT together add 7.7m people and about 2.5m households (or so). Adding those two incrementally increases revenue per school (because you’re dividing by 12 instead of 10), but not by much.

    Exposure-wise, I agree – it potentially broadens the appeal of the Pac-12 when negotiating a national K, but it doesn’t do quite as much for subscriber fees as you would suspect.

    by CAJason80 on Jun 16, 2010 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Right.

    But what if we start our P12N, and Dish decides to start offering BTN and PTN in their own separate package, instead of coming bundled with History HD and Bravo?

    California Golden Blogs! Objectivity. Some journalists have yet to be introduced.

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    CAJason80, I am interested ind oing a front page post on the potential Pac12 Channel. Do you have any informative links that might be helpful? Thanks in advance.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 16, 2010 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I’d like to see us doing some advance research on a Pac12 Network.
    Would be nice to read up on.

    California Golden Blogs! Objectivity. Some journalists have yet to be introduced.

    by Maisbikkja on Jun 16, 2010 11:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Twist, I'll try and shoot you some stuff later this evening...

    I have a spreadsheet on the conference revenue breakdown I’ll shoot to you in a couple hours (It’s 6:34 PM here right now, I just got home). Don’t know if you’re up late but I’ll send a couple things your way.

    by CAJason80 on Jun 16, 2010 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

    CAJason80, where are you? Tahiti??? I’m so intrigued…

    by Scootie on Jun 16, 2010 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

    YOU ARE SO AWESOME!!!!! I LOVE NEW ZEALAND! SO JEALOUS!!!!

    Got the email, will peruse the numbers and hope to get back to you soon.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I watch Big Ten Network all the time and live right here in the East Bay.

    If someone’s a fan, they’re going to watch any game that’s on. We don’t need to add Colorado or Utah to get eyeballs on our games. We just need a network.

    In other words, we could have the added revenue without the extra mouths to feed. If we weren’t so fixated on trying to kill the BigXXII and get the Longhorns.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 16, 2010 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

    even if that were true, you’d need to convince a company to start a Pac-Network, and they wouldn’t do so unless the number of TVs was enough to make it worthwhile. With twelve teams, and the addition of Denver and SLC, its much more likely to happen.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I’d feel more for your anger if not for the fact that athletic departments are shitting money out the wazoo. We can’t pretend that their isn’t a budget crisis across most, if not all, of the fine institutions involved.

    I don’t have much of a horse in this race though, but I guess I would’ve preferred our old-style round robin. That said, our division looks ripe for the taking if Oregon doesn’t continue its strength.

    o=========<| BBBBBBEARZZZZZZ

    by Thoroughbred on Jun 16, 2010 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Damn!

    Where were you when I was in court???

    by LordKdV on Jun 17, 2010 8:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

    More money brought in by the fotball program...

    …means less money from the University, and more money for education. Won’t someone please think of the children!?!?!

    Viva Scott

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Glanko thinks of the children all the time.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Yes, and how radiation and chemicals can turn those children into super-soldiers/players, at the command of Col. J. Tedofrd.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

    But not like how carp thinks of the children.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Yep, looking at all the turmoil the athletic departments budget deficit is causing at the moment…..how can you not see increasing revenues as a good thing? Not only for the football/basketball programs, but for all the athletic programs, AND the University as a whole.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

    The Big XXII lost two programs -- one in Denver and the other with one of the NCAA's

    elite programs that also happened to have the Omaha market locked down — and the Big XXII’s TV contract isn’t changing. Two fewer major programs. Two fewer TV markets. Same money.

    So what makes you think our gaining that school in Denver and one in SLC will automatically make networks start a bidding war for Pac-10 games?

    The fact that the Big XXII could lose those markets and not lose any money from their contract proves that there’s a lot more to it than counting up the populations represented by conference teams.

    Brilliant logic there, bub. More population automatically equals bigger contract! Make your reservations for Stockholm now. I’m sure you’ve got your Nobel in economics on its way.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Two fewer major programs. Two fewer TV markets. Same money.

    That’s because the contract is already in place…?

    So what makes you think our gaining that school in Denver and one in SLC will automatically make networks start a bidding war for Pac-10 games?

    I didn’t say bidding war, it means more viewers. More viewers = more money for the networks = more money they can pay the conference. Not a hard concept. Pointing to contracts already in palce and ESPN trying it’s best not to lose a megaconference to a rival network hardly offers evidence against this.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Wrong!!! The existing contract is void because of the conference changes...

    But they’re getting the same deal with two fewer teams because the markets that actually count are still there. That would be the ones in Texas and Oklahoma where football is a religion.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Except they kept the contract in place. They didn’t void it…..

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

    It was already voided. That's how contract law works.

    Both parties then had to agree to maintain the existing terms or start from scratch.

    Beebe’s coup was getting the TV folks to do that and save the Big XXII. And he pulled that off by getting even closer to Texas in their bed — guaranteeing them a larger share of the TV money, plus the fine money from Colorado and Nebraska leaving.

    That’s why I say Texas got over. They played the role of mob boss to perfection, strong-arming Beebe for what they wanted all along. More of the Big XXII pie.

    Probably never intended to leave in the first place.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Um, contract law certainly doesn’t automatically work that way. Have you read the contract, Monica’s Dad?

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

    There are plenty of articles on this topic available.

    ESPN and Fox both had the option to get out of it, but chose not to out of the goodness of their hearts. Or maybe it was the fact that losing Colorado and Nebraska had a negligible effect on their bottom line.

    My point about contract law is that when any party has the option to void, the continuance of that contract is in matter of fact a new contract. Not exercising your escape clause is as good as signing a brand new contract.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

    To get out of it, or to renegotiate the money downwards? Two very different things, and of course I have no view into the contract so I don’t know the language, but I would be stunned if it weren’t the latter.

    I ask because the Big XII would love to be out of that ABC/ESPN contract, which runs for another five years. It is actually the biggest thorn in their side, because it pays them well below current market rates for their broadcast rights. If they were able to void it, based on recent history with other conferences, particularly the ACC, they should be able to at least double the money they’re getting, and then the money they are speculating about would be reality, instead of a five year horizon and a bundle of hopes.

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

    “out of the goodness of their hearts”?? Really? You can’t honestly believe that. Maybe it was the fact that the alternative (megaconferences) would have had a HUGE impact on their bottom line, so better to throw some extra chump change now to keep the Big 12(-2) together, rather than lose a TON of money negotiating with any potential megaconferences.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

    "out of the goodness of their hearts"

    Yeah, that was a good one!

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think it was a rhetorical device, in which case he laid out an absurd sentence and then contrasted it with the next sentence:

    Or maybe it was the fact that losing Colorado and Nebraska had a negligible effect on their bottom line.

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I thought that might have been a possibility. But even then it pretends that that is the only possible explanation, when the scenario I mentioned is, at the very least, EXTREMELY plausible, and is the one that has been mentioned several times by everyone as the most likely explanation. So even if he doesn’t buy it, he should at least acknowledge it and explain why it’s wrong.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Do you have a link to one of these articles? I would like to read them. Thank you.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I will be waiting like an idiot in silence for them!

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Tis better to be silent and be thought a fool than open one’s mouth and remove all doubt. Or in my case, BOTH!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Both? When are you silent?

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Sometimes when I am chewing food, I am silent. Sometimes.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Pics or…um…nevermind.

    by Kodiak on Jun 17, 2010 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Sure, dude. I bet you chew with your mouth open all the time!

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Just because its open doesnt mean I am talking!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Couple good resources...

    This article about potential future TV deals includes a pretty clear implication that ESPN could have gotten out of the current deal…
    http://www.cbssports.com/general/story/13524896/big-12-commish-future-tv-money-helped-survival/cbsnews
    Direct quote…
    “The Big 12 approached us asking if we would maintain our current agreement through its term of 2015-16 and we agreed,” said Josh Krulewitz, vice president for communications for ESPN.

    In other words, the contract gave ESPN the option to NOT maintain the current agreement through that agreement’s expiration.

    Another good piece from today…
    http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=5298730

    In it, this quote…

    Beebe secured a promise that TV partners ABC and ESPN wouldn’t cut the Big 12’s rights fees despite the loss of Colorado and Nebraska, which meant the remaining teams would now split the same money among only 10 members rather than 12. “That was big to us because we weren’t sure what would happen to the TV contract,” Texas women’s athletic director Chris Plonsky says.

    Again, clearly indicating that the networks could have cut payments.

    But they didn’t. Because losing Colorado and Nebraska had almost no effect on the networks’ bottom lines.

    Even Wilner’s article quotes a sports marketer as saying…

    "Gaining Colorado is absolutely meaningless for TV purposes," said a sports media consultant who requested anonymity, "and gaining Utah is close to meaningless."

    So we shouldn’t get all hot and bothered believing that the Denver and SLC markets are going to bring some huge windfall. There just isn’t a lot of passion in those places — at least not in huge numbers — to justify a big payoff for them.

    Of course, the Wilner article raises some other points that may mean more money for the Pac-10. The biggest being the addition of the championship game. But as he pointed out, we didn’t necessarily need to add two additional mouths to feed to get that revenue bounce. And our current TV contract is undervalued to begin with, so we’re due for a boost in 2012 anyway. It will be tough to tell how much is due to bringing in Colorado and Utah, and how much is due to existing under-valuation.

    Doesn’t matter, I guess. We’re stuck with the Utes and Buffs now.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

    We’re stuck with the Utes and Buffs now.

    I heartily disagree with that verb.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Agreed. I’m psyched to have them!

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

    But they didn’t. Because losing Colorado and Nebraska had almost no effect on the networks’ bottom lines.

    And that, right there, is where you are losing most of us. That really isn’t the only (or obvious) conclusion to make. The conclusion that almost all of us find much more compelling, and which you have not addressed AT ALL, is that they decided to lose some profit by giving a crappier Big 12 (minus CU and Nebraska) more money so that they don’t break up and form megaconferences, because they would be losing SO MUCH MORE if they had to negotiate with megaconferences.

    It seems to me like you are systematically avoiding this very trenchant argument.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

    No, I wasn't systematically avoiding that.

    I just don’t believe it, and haven’t heard anything concrete about it other than speculation. I’m free to speculate, so are you. I’ll just dismiss your out of hand because opinions are like that. They don’t have to be fair or comprehensive.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    OK, dismiss it out of hand if you want, but it’s the dominant and most widely believed narrative, and it makes sense on its face. The whole point of forming a megaconference is to increase your bargaining power and make more money for the conference, which would come at the expense of the networks which benefit from the status quo. They stood to lose a ton of money, especially if a Pac-16 ignited an arms race so that the Big Ten and SEC both expanded to 16 and the Big East and ACC merged, as was widely predicted would happen.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 10:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I’m working on a post regarding the Pac12 Channel. I think it will be illustrative, hopefully, of how ridiculously expensive a Pac16 would have been. Like I said previously, these channels are not necessarily based on ratings, but raw numbers. If you have a channel with the footprint of the Western side of America that makes a LOT of money.

    You know what else would make a LOT of money? The SEC channel. Why doesn’t it exist? Because ESPN/ABC didn’t want to lose the rights, so they had to pay the SEC 2.2 billion (BILLION) (B I L L I O N!) dollars to keep the SEC from forming its own channel.

    Could the Pac16 be even more than that? I don’t know, nobody does. But ABC/ESPN and Fox did not want to find out.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

    That's pretty compelling.

    Never heard that figure before.

    We’re not the SEC, but with Texas and Oklahoma, maybe it really would have killed the big networks to see us launch a Pac-16 network.

    That’s pretty compelling.

    by Monica's Dad on Jun 17, 2010 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Here is a link from Sports Illustrated. It s about 5 years old now, I think, but it has all the information about the TV contracts (all of which are stillactive, I believe). Note the SEC info:

    SEC

    • ESPN: 15 years, $2.25 billion

    • CBS: 15 years, $825 million

    (Both deals run through 2023-2024.)

    Here is our current contract:

    Pac-10

    • ABC/ESPN: Five years, $125 million for football

    • Fox Sports Net: Five years, $97 million for football

    • ABC/ESPN: Six years, $52.5 million for basketball

    (All run through 2011-12.)

    I read WIlner’s piece. I am a little confused, because hsi numbers seem to be different than SI. Either way, I agree that the Pac16 probably wouldnt have been as valuable as the SEC. But it certainly would have been a LOT closer than where we are now.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 11:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

    My biggest problem with your argument is that what happened – the Big 12-2 keeping the same revenue stream despite losing two teams – is entirely plausible and in fact likely in my opinion, even if Colorado/Utah brings significant power to the Pac-10. ESPN could have opted out of the contract, yes, but the current contract was still better than the alternative option of opting out and losing the Pac-16 to Fox and having to find more expensive replacements. The Big12-2’s contract isn’t that burdensome to them – it’s not that they keep their bottom line the same, it’s that their bottom line ends up better this way than all the alternative options. Simply put, it’s opportunity cost.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2010 6:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Yes, Texas ended up getting a larger slice of the pie. I have a hard time envisioning that was their plan all along, though. The Big 12 came awfully close to collapsing around them, seems like a pretty risky gamble to me. Had A&M left for the SEC and any of the schools the Pac-10 offered left to put pressure on Texas (or even claimed they were accepting the offer regardless of Texas), there’s no more Big 12. It worked out the way it did because everyone bowed to Texas, but I hardly think it was obvious that was going to happen ahead of time. Seems to me Texas ended up with two good offers – both moving to the Pac-10 or staying in a 10 team conference were better choices than the previous Big-12, so they could have just been moving ahead the whole time looking for the best situation so finally they took what they thought was the best offer.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Is Missing Barry’s point more wrong the more exclamation points you use?

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Monica's Dad...

    You should stick to taking pictures and posting them on this site.

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Little harsh, dudes.

    o=========<| BBBBBBEARZZZZZZ

    by Thoroughbred on Jun 17, 2010 2:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Hey guys, I know this is a charged subject, but please refrain from personal attacks. If you think an argument is bunk, rip it apart, but please don’t challenge the character or worth of fellow commenters.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think the argument is bunk, but I’ve only heard good things about Monica’s Dad and pictures!

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I only respond to posts and points worth arguing. I was simply making a suggestion about the lovely pictures this gentleman provides this site.

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Let’s just drop it about who said what and move on if possible, please.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I think we can all agree that Monica’s Dad’s (how’s that for apostrophes!) photography is top notch. Let’s focus on the positive and stop all the feuding and a’fussin’!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    What about the feudalism? What am I supposed to do with the angry horde of serfs outside?

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Just Dance!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

    OK, you’ve all taken your personal shots at each other, now play nice. You don’t want any irate toothmonger mods coming in here and getting all up in your business.

    Costs STILL assessed against Twist

    by CALumbus Bear on Jun 17, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

    All right, to your corners

    I’ve actually enjoyed the impassioned debate between Missing Barry and Monica’s Dad (and their respective supporters) on this topic. Both sides have reasoned their positions very well. Let’s stick to the passionate, reasoned stuff and back off from simple attacks.

    Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

    by Ohio Bear on Jun 17, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

    “Filthy”? “Getting what we deserve”? I get that you’re a traditionalist and you don’t like expansion, but there’s no need or basis to get moralistic about it. ALL the conferences are simply trying to do the best for their members. The conferences are not academic institutions, they are simply made up of them.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

    What is it that Texas got over on us (the Pac-10?)
    Difference — Texas got over on us, the Big XXII and every Big XXII school. Larry Scott got played, and ultimately hurt our conference.

    See, I’m not buying this idea that Scott got played. How is it that Scott got played when he didn’t compromise the conference’s principles by saying, “No” when Texas asked to have their own network if they were to accept a Pac-10 invitation?

    How is it that Scott got played when he didn’t give away the store to Texas and the Big XII invitees?

    How is it that the Pac-10 is hurt (read: in worse shape) now than they were before June 6 (when the conference presidents gave him the green light on issuing invitations to institutions outside the Pac-10?

    Larry Scott’s actions actually have made the Pac-10 stronger because the conference is now in a position for:
    1 a conference championship game
    2 a higher profile within the world of FBS football
    3 adding markets previously ignored and positioning the Pac-10 for future growth

    all of which adds up to a more lucrative TV contract for Pac-12 football.

    If you want to be a pessimist, who am I to deny you the pleasure? But let’s be real about what happened here: Texas had no intention of being a full partner in the Pac-10, -12, or -16. I don’t see how Texas put over anything on Larry Scott if Scott wasn’t buying Texas’s crapola.

    by FiatSlug on Jun 17, 2010 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Forgotten in all of this....

    how about that Alamo Bowl tie-in with the Big 12 now? Think that’ll be a fun matchup in the years to come? I can already imagine the invective being hurled during that game. Good times!

    by CAJason80 on Jun 16, 2010 11:03 PM PDT reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16...

    …is like blaming Patrick Henry for the Stamp Act.

    Now, I challenge you other geeks to make a similar analogy, the more obscure and esoteric the reference, the better. Do so in the following format:

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming [ historical figure ] for [ obscure event ]

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 8:46 AM PDT reply actions   1 recs

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Bar-Abbas for the death of Jesus.

    Too soon?

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Van McCoy for the hustle.

    by LordKdV on Jun 17, 2010 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Those are both excellent

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Ed Begley, Jr. for GM’s cancellation of the EV1 electric car.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac16 is like crediting TwistNHook with anything positive in any way shape or form about CGB.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Like blaming the Vienna art school for the 1936 tragedy Kristallnacht.

    by wtrach on Jun 17, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

    WTRach, you are my new favorite poster here! Welcome to CGB! Hope to see you bringing more hilarity to these pages soon!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    [sheds tear, hides jealousy]

    Costs STILL assessed against Twist

    by CALumbus Bear on Jun 17, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    You are not a new poster! You are also my least favorite veteran poster, though, to be clear.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I cannot love you more Wonder Twin than I do now. I thought after what happened up there I would never smile again.

    Fire Starkey. You... complete me.

    by since1997 on Jun 17, 2010 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

    “Favorite new poster” wouldn’t have ruffled any feathers, but “new favorite poster” is a heartbreaker, Twist.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 3:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I use adjectives interchangeably! INTERCHANGEABLY!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Adjectives are NOT commutative, Twist! Back to math class for you.

    by Scootie on Jun 19, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Maybe if we come up with some more witty Holocaust humor Twist will like us more.

    Costs STILL assessed against Twist

    by CALumbus Bear on Jun 17, 2010 3:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Kristallnacht was pre-Holocaust. Moreover, it was the art school reference that I really liked.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Hitler was nothing if not an artist.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

    It was like blaming Kokoschka for fin-de-siecle expressionism?

    /Validate me. Please.

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    GET. OFF. MY. BLOG!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Wow. Definitely trying too hard.

    And for Twist….. [shakes head sadly].

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Jeff Tedford for Cal being denied a Rose Bowl in the 2004 final BCS standings.

    Too soon?

    Yes, I am an Old Blue. Now get off my lawn.

    by Ohio Bear on Jun 17, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

    SO this.

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Mon Mothma for the destruction of Alderaan.

    by Kodiak on Jun 17, 2010 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming my teacher for not telling me what the heck Alderaan is.

    by LordKdV on Jun 17, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Not your teacher’s fault. It blew up a long time ago…

    by Kodiak on Jun 17, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Sorry...

    Have not watched Star Wars in awhile…

    by calbearjd on Jun 17, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    AND YOU CALL YOURSELF A NERD?!??! For shame, calbearjd. For shame! I bet you know waht the touch of a woman feels like, too!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Man…I just lobbed that one out there…and phail?

    /facepalm

    by Kodiak on Jun 17, 2010 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I don't call myself a nerd

    I am lower than that…I am an attorney…the scales and slime leaves me unable to feel pain or joy

    by calbearjd on Jun 17, 2010 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming the Golden Blogs for everyone making fun of the ’Furd

    by LordKdV on Jun 17, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Yoko Ono for the collapse of the Beatles.

    Well, wait a second…

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

    You guys are DOIN IT RONG

    "UC Davis??? hahahahaha" - Aaron Rodgers

    by atomsareenough on Jun 17, 2010 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions  

    No, that’s actually right. There were a ton of other reasons they broke up.

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

    bearstage is right…
    yoko ono’s bad breath
    yoko ono’s stupid voice
    yoko ono’s dumb haircut
    yoko ono’s terrible ideas
    i could go on forever…

    Remember, the enemy's end zone is DOWN!

    by GoldBlooded on Jun 17, 2010 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Link for a larger excerpt of a Rolling Stone article on why the Beatles broke up. Read it when I used to subscribe, it’s a great article. if you’re a member, you can read the whole thing, but even this excerpt is interesting.

    Because Lennon and McCartney dominated the Beatles’ songwriting and singing, they, in effect, led the band, though Lennon had always enjoyed an implicit seniority. Even so, the Beatles abided by a guiding policy of one-man, one-vote, which figured significantly when, in 1966, after years of touring, John, George and Ringo persuaded Paul that they should stop performing their music live. For about three months, all four went their separate ways, and as they did, John Lennon felt sharp apprehensions: “I was thinking, ‘Well, this is the end, really. There’s no more touring. That means there’s going to be a blank space in the future….’ That’s when I really started considering life without the Beatles — what would it be? And that’s when the seed was planted that I had to somehow get out of [the Beatles] without being thrown out by the others. But I could never step out of the palace because it was too frightening.”

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

    You are all winners

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac 16 is like blaming Anthony Eden for the Profumo Affair.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 11:46 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming me for my wife’s shit.

    by wtrach on Jun 17, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

    You have to explain that one to me

    Don’t make me wikipedia that reference.

    by wtrach on Jun 17, 2010 1:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Oh, you will most likely greatly enjoy the research. Christine Keeler, call girls, naked parties in the pool at Cliveden. Go on, Google it!

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Blaming Larry Scott for the collapse of the Pac-16 is like blaming Joan of Arc for the French defeat at Agincourt..

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Does anyone have an email address for Chip Brown?

    I woul like to say that his shenanigans have not gone unnoticed.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

    I’ve been on a SBN Pac-12 blog adding spree as of late, and CGB is really the best. The other sites have 10 to 12 comments, and are still reporting that the Big 12 is staying together. We’re just way more adept at wasting time.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I like CougCenter a lot.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

    But you really like that imaginary Furd blog.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions  

    AllRightNow.com is my favorite SBN blog of all time!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions  

    WhatsYourDeal.com?

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Those DAMN Lobsterbacks!!

    by PlayClassyBears on Jun 17, 2010 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    You’re thinking of the Cougar’s Den, that’s the place in the Castro.

    by Glanko on Jun 17, 2010 10:09 AM PDT reply actions  

    Question
    We learn from the Texas and Beebe media conferences and some more reporting from sources that ABC/ESPN basically protected its investments and held off college realignment by allowing the 10 schools in the Big 12 to keep all the money ABC/ESPN agreed to pay the league through 2016 when it had 12 members and a conference championship game.

    Why would ABC/ESPN agree to such a bad deal? I’m convinced because it didn’t want to see Texas and Oklahoma disappear to the Pac-16 conference network likely to be run by Fox. ABC/ESPN, in my opinion, also saw the possibility of realignment coming if the Big 12 fell apart, and that could have led to remodeling the SEC and ACC, conferences in which ABC/ESPN has more than $4 billion tied up in TV contracts.

    If the SEC expands by four or the ACC gets picked apart and then remodeled in some merger with the Big East, ABC/ESPN likely has to renegotiate those deals, possibly for more than the $4 billion it had already committed.

    Can somebody link up the source for that quote above? I snooped around the links provided by Avinash but couldn’t find the original source of this.

    Thanks

    by Cali49a on Jun 17, 2010 10:22 AM PDT reply actions  

    Brown article

    Scroll near the bottom.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions  

    By the way, the ESPN money is only an extra $1.2M per school per year — not nearly enough to be a real difference maker. The contract is $480M over seven years, so now instead of just less than $6M, there will be $7M available per school.

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

    But I’m confused – I thought Fox was the “unnamed network”?

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

    No. It’s Fox’s deal that they’re working with, but the unnamed network behind the scene was ESPN.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Texas stayed

    Because they wanted to be the big fish in the small/tiny pond that is the Big X/XII as an opposed to a part of a megaconference like the Pac-16. Even since Texas joined the Big XII…it has been pushing to increase itself control over the other school. That is why Nebraska and Colorado left and why the Aggies and Missouri want to leave.

    There is no logical/monetary/academic/competitive argument one can make as to why Texas stayed. The only reason is that Texas wanted to be top dog…

    As for ESPN, don’t forget that it owns the rights to the BCS in the next few years. Megaconferences = end of BCS.

    by calbearjd on Jun 17, 2010 10:24 AM PDT reply actions  

    Well, you can make an argument that Texas thought they could just take the big windfall today by getting the lion’s share of Big 12 revenues, and then when the Big 12 finally collapses they can still get a great deal from one of the other conferences (Pac-10, SEC, Big 10). Actually, they’re probably right about that.

    by sycasey on Jun 17, 2010 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Texas is overplaying its hand

    It is a great school but don’t forget everything is cyclical…remember Oklahoma and Nebraska?

    Pac-10/12 will maintain its equal revenue sharing philosophy (which I love and benefits everyone).

    Big 10/12 will rather have Notre Dame and some of the Big East school than Texas due to geographic issues

    Texas would never go to the SEC unless it is ready to take a big hit academically…

    Pac-10/12 is the most viable option for Texas and is now wary of Texas’ ways.

    by calbearjd on Jun 17, 2010 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Pac-10/12 will maintain its equal revenue sharing philosophy

    We don’t have totally equal revenue sharing.

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

    We actually have exactly the same kind of unequal revenue sharing as the Big XII.

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Hopefully this will change with the new contract. Equal revenue sharing is probably the only thing that can assuage the anger from uneven scheduling.

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 17, 2010 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I know Pac-10 isn’t equal, but I thought it was much more equal than the Big 12-2? Can anyone lay out the similarities/differences for us?

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I don’t think it’s the exact same formula for revenue sharing. The Pac-10’s, while not equal by any means, is a little more balanced.

    by GBB4188 on Jun 17, 2010 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Here’s a link to an article from a year ago in the Seattle Times which discusses revenue sharing. Bowl game revenue and NCAA tourney revenue are shared equally, but football TV revenue is not. I don’t know how much things have changed since then.

    Share the wealth?
    Some are pushing for an even split of the Pac-10’s football revenue, including money made from games played on television. Following is a look at how much each school made — and kept — from 2008 TV games in the conference’s regional and national package. (Schools can also make local deals for games not picked as part of the conference’s package. Those games pay far less):
    Team 2008 TV revenue
    USC $6,469,584
    UCLA $4,905,922
    Oregon State $4,864,571
    Washington $4,740,518
    California $4,388,159
    Arizona State $4,091,777
    Oregon $3,967,724
    Stanford $3,449,961
    Arizona $3,342,259
    Wash. State $3,029,526

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    That’s not even based on performance – that’s based on TV time. Even if USC weren’t the best team in the conference, they’d still get more TV time, and therefore more moolah, than any of the other teams.

    CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.

    http://www.californiagoldenblogs.com/

    by BearStage on Jun 17, 2010 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Also, that’s just TV revenue, right, not total revenue?

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2010 6:53 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Strategic mistake by Larry Scott

    Hi I am a Texas A&M aggie and I am ass disappointed as any of the other 9 schools that our administration fell in line with Texas, when we had the opportunity to go to the SEC. Having said that though Larry Scott grossly underestimated Texas Tech. If he would have gone ahead and offered a position to Tech, my take is that the Big 12/now 10 conference would have certainly unraveled. Contrary to beliefs outside of Texas, Tech although not in the league of A&M or Texas yet, is the state’s third flagship and has been put on the fast track by the Texas legislature to reach that level within the next few years. Even if the deal would have failed, Tech would have a been an acceptable risk for the Pac-16/12 as it would have held its own. Interestingly however, Tech not only would have accepted the offer but would have given an opportunity to schools like A&M and OU to explore other opportunities thus reducing Texas’s power in the conference that would have ultimately led to Texas joining the Pac 12/16 because I don’t see the alumni at either A&M or UT being very thrilled about joining the Big 10.

    by YUMC on Jun 17, 2010 11:23 AM PDT reply actions  

    I don’t know what the Pac10 back room discussions were about Tech. I do agree, though, in reading the information over at DoubleTNation, Tech fans would be happy to GTFO out of the Big12. They would be happy to make their own name in the game, instead of Texas’ little bro.

    I am not sure, however, that they would be, by themselves, an acceptable risk. I think it would be an oddly constructed conference to have the Pac10 plus say Colorado and Tech. Also, it seems unlikely that the Texas legislature would have allowed Tech to accept that. They apparently got involved in this and were trying to keep Texas/TTU/A+M together. So, they might have blocked that move anyway, I don’t know.

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

    I also question Texas Tech’s longterm viability as a successful program. I realize Texas Tech has had more sustained success over the past decade than Colorado, but I fully believe Colorado is merely in a downcycle as their all-time winning percentage is reasonably high at .609. They merely need a new coach, and better access to recruiting (which I believe the Pac-10 will, as they were never able to recruit Texas successfully, but have had success with California). Utah also brings a solid and stable program, with an improving in-state recruiting base).

    Texas Tech on the other hand [and this is all speculation, so feel free to correct me], is heavily dependant on the Texas Triangle for recruiting. They are able to sell recruits passed over by Texas, A&M, and Oklahoma, a chance to play all those schools, and remain near home. As far as I know, West Texas does not have a strong recruiting base. Moving to a new conference, then limits their recruiting potential, and geographically isolates them. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge Tech has only been relevant in college football for the past decade, which leads me to believe a bad coaching hire will render them a second tier football school yet again.

    Two additional points, Boulder very much fits the culture of the Pac-10, I have reservations whether Lubbock does as well. To my knowledge, Tech does not have a well-rounded athletics program.

    These factors combine to Tech a very risky gamble.

    by chowder on Jun 17, 2010 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Also, it doesn’t seem to me Tech by itself brings any sort of worthwhile media market. Boulder and Utah do. Getting Tech, Texas and A&M would have been worthwhile, getting Tech alone is getting the worst of that group, though.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I was not making the argument for Texas Tech as a replacement for Colorado. Colorado does fit in very well with the rest of the Pac 10 but my point was that Tech should have been brought in as the 12th school. Again they are in no way comparable to the Aggies or the Long horns in terms of size and value but to say that they do not bring in any value is also inaccurate. If you look up their page on wikipedia you will find that although always under the shadow of A&M and Texas, Tech has one of the most consistent college football, baseball and Men and Women’s basketball programs with all time winning percentage of above .55 across all three sports. They have a large alumni base in the DFW metroplex tha’ts their media footprint area not West Texas and have had the fourth most national TV appearance of all Big XII schools across time. Ofcourse being an Aggie myself I had a vested interest in Tech leaving the program, so we could make the case for SEC as well. Just my two cents

    by YUMC on Jun 17, 2010 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

    The gamble would be that only TTU would come over, and I doubt that’d be acceptable to Larry Scott.

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Agreed. No offense is meant to TTU, but the Pac-10 Presidents were already wary of OSU and TTU’s academic reputations. Giving an invite to Tech (as they did to Colorado) has them on the hook for potentially requiring to honor that invite. Texas could easily have still kept everyone together (adding Houston for #10) and then the Pac-10 gets TTU—mind you I think they are a competitive school in recent years, but Lubbock is NOT Dallas. Nor is Tech the same without Leach. And losing Utah would have been a blow.

    by PlayClassyBears on Jun 17, 2010 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Do you think that Tech would have actually accepted a bid by itself without the other Texas schools? While it might feel liberating to them, the prospect of getting cut off from playing the other Texas schools and the difficult travel involved makes it very impractical for Tech.

    The only school that could force the dissolution of the Big 12 is A&M. Their departure to the SEC would dilute the league’s strength beyond repair. While losing Tech would hurt, plugging in a school like TCU would allow the league to continue.

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 17, 2010 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I wonder if Missouri would have gone to the Big-10 as was speculated, if the Big-XII would have been damaged beyond repair. Missouri’s athletics may not stand out, but compared to the other Big-XII schools, they do have a sizable population within their footprint.

    by chowder on Jun 17, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Great post

    Colorado fan here.
    Following the Chip Brown stuff has been pretty funny. Its pretty obvious that he is just a shill, but the thing that rankled most CU fans is the insults and slanted reporting he would do. He constantly took unwarranted shots at Colorado, even if they had nothing to with the story.

    Anyway, just wanted to say that this is a great blog. Lots of articles here that go deeper then the games.

    Sorry that CU sucks so bad right now, but it wont last forever. We will get a new football coach, and we will be back soon. Also we just broke ground on a new Basketball\Volleyball practice facility, and our team is quickly improving. We have a player in Alec Burks who will be in the lottery, but I doubt he will ever get to play in the PAC, but hopefully it is a sign of things to come.

    Every CU fan, and I really mean damn near 100%, is very fired up to join the PAC. I think that you will see that reflected in the visiting fan section when we play you this year.

    Cheers.

    Also – as a long time rugby player, I hate the Cal rugby team (but its probably more of a jealous hate)

    by kingpants on Jun 17, 2010 12:16 PM PDT reply actions  

    Let me add...

    It seems to be a popular thing to dismiss the Denver TV market for CU. There is no doubt that Denver is a Broncos town, but CU and a PAC whatever network will carry good weight. This is a transient market, but I think that one factor being over looked is that a great majority of people that have moved into the Denver area in the past 20 years are from California. I would think that there are a bunch of those people that would love to watch the teams that they grew up cheering for.

    Plus, I know that I would rather watch CU vs. Cal then CU vs. Kansas St, and I would venture that that would be true for most.

    by kingpants on Jun 17, 2010 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Assuming you live in Denver, I have a question for you. Is Denver comprised of more Pac-10 alums or Big-XII alums (excluding Colorado of course), or is it even?

    by chowder on Jun 17, 2010 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    as a whole I would say PAC schools. There are just a lot of Californians here, but I am not sure as to their football allegiance. i just remember stories from a few years ago that said that 70% of the people moving into the front range were from Cali. I think that has changed some now, as we are starting to get some people from the rust belt and farm county. But I would think that Cali folks still out number.

    The one thing that will help the TV thing the most though, is CU wining. That cures all.

    by kingpants on Jun 17, 2010 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Thanks for dropping by. I remember the Kordell Stewart days, I know this won’t last forever.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Rashaan Salaam, FTW! CU was awesome back in the day.

    by Scootie on Jun 17, 2010 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

    kingpants, welcome to CGB. And welcome to the Pac12! Looking forward to seeing the Buffs perspectives up in these parts!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

    We have lots of high quality rugby posts, so you can hate with superior knowledge of what you hate!

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

    under this scenario either

    1. Larry Scott made an incredibly stupid decision to disinvite OK State – a bigger boneheaded move in a negotiation is hard to imagine, or

    2. shenanigans.

    In this whole situation, where have we seen anything that suggests Scott would pull that kind of crazy stunt? And to what end?

    It is not clear to me why people at Texas are spinning this scenario through the so-called reporter Brown. It is perfectly understandable that Texas made the decision that it perceived was in its best interests. What is the purpose of trying to claim otherwise?

    jh

    by Jake88 on Jun 17, 2010 12:17 PM PDT reply actions  

    To lessen animosity from other conference members.

    by sec119 on Jun 17, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

    but surely they have critical reasoning skills and will see through it all, no?

    or maybe UT is waiting to unveil a dramatic piece of smoking gun evidence!

    jh

    by Jake88 on Jun 17, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

    What particularly irks me is where Chip Brown claims Larry Scott became

    a wheeler-dealer Pac-10 commissioner

    by chowder on Jun 17, 2010 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

    "What is the purpose of trying to claim otherwise?"

    Pissed off Texas Exes who are unhappy with the Big 12-2.

    proud to swim home

    by learned hand on Jun 17, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

    thanks for the reply

    what is the story behind “Texas Exes”? I think it is the only school I have heard of that uses that formulation rather than alums.

    And the Learned says this:

    “And so when I hear so much impatient and irritable complaint, so much readiness to replace what we have by guardians for us all, those supermen, evoked somewhere from the clouds, whom none have seen and none are ready to name, I lapse into a dream, as it were. I see children playing on the grass; their voices are shrill and discordant as children’s are; they are restive and quarrelsome; they cannot agree to any common plan; their play annoys them; it goes poorly. And one says, let us make Jack the master; Jack knows all about it; Jack will tell us what each is to do and we shall all agree. But Jack is like all the rest; Helen is discontented with her part and Henry with his, and soon they fall again into their old state. No, the children must learn to play by themselves; there is no Jack the master. And in the end slowly and with infinite disappointment they do learn a little; they learn to forbear, to reckon with another, accept a little where they wanted much, to live and let live, to yield when they must yield; perhaps, we may hope, not to take all they can. But the condition is that they shall be willing at least to listen to one another, to get the habit of pooling their wishes. Somehow or other they must do this, if the play is to go on; maybe it will not, but there is no Jack, in or out of the box, who can come to straighten the game.” Pp. 99-100, Democracy: Its Presumptions and Realities (1932).

    by Jake88 on Jun 17, 2010 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions  

    I can tell you that’s what Texas calls it’s alumni association. I went to an event with the Philly chapter recently.

    by Missing Barry on Jun 17, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

    It could be worse, Texas A&M uses "The Association of Former Students"

    At one point, UT had the “University of Texas Alumni Association”. But, somewhere around the WWI era, the association led a successful charge to impeach a governor for thwarting the university’s appropriations bill (this should surprise no one here). Afterward, they changed its name to the association of Ex-Students. Fortunately, the University has gotten better at PR maneuvers as time has passed.

    That is certainly an apt quote, though I also like this one for the present situation: “Our dangers, as it seems to me, are not from the outrageous but from the conforming; not from those who rarely and under the lurid glare of obloquy upset our moral complaisance, or shock us with unaccustomed conduct, but from those, the mass of us, who take their virtues and tastes, like their shirts and their furniture, from the limited patterns which the market offers”

    proud to swim home

    by learned hand on Jun 17, 2010 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

    thanks.

    and strong quote!

    jh

    by Jake88 on Jun 17, 2010 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

    2008 TV revenue

    Pac-10 has the most uneven revenue TV distribution from the national TV contracts (FSN, ESPN) of any conference. SC made more than double Washington State, which obviously had no national appearances. This makes the new big 12-2 arrangement look like socialism. What a joke Tom Hansen was. SEC and Big 12 bottom feeders make more than twice SC’s total.

    Cal made out terribly from the current deal despite having numerous ESPN and ABC regional appearances in 2008, with good ratings as well.

     Looks like the Thursday night SC-Oregon state game was worth several million on its own.

    Team 2008 TV revenue
    USC $6,469,584
    UCLA $4,905,922
    Oregon State $4,864,571
    Washington $4,740,518
    California $4,388,159
    Arizona State $4,091,777
    Oregon $3,967,724
    Stanford $3,449,961
    Arizona $3,342,259
    Wash. State $3,029,526

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 17, 2010 3:34 PM PDT reply actions  

    Do you hav ea link for this?

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Oh wait, I see it, thank. Its teh Seatle times article, right?

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 17, 2010 7:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Yes I think those came from the Bob Condotta article. I haven’t been able to find the 2009 numbers.

    California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.

    by CaliforniaEternal on Jun 17, 2010 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

    But how unequal are total revenues? If everything else is equal, a ~$3.5M difference between the biggest grosser and smallest grosser in the league seems pretty small to me, based on my impression of other conferences….

    by Missing Barry on Jun 18, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

    If you read the Seattles Time piece, it mentions how the gate receipts are split between home team and away team. This creates some odd problems sometimes. In the Apple Cup, when the game is played in Seatte, WSU makess a LOT more money than what UW makes if the game is played in Pullman. This, I presume, is because the games in Seattle are more packed with higher ticket prices.

    So, that might even things out.

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    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 18, 2010 7:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

    Think you are misreading that a bit, Twist. For gate receipts, the visiting team gets up to $200K and the home team keeps the rest, except for rivalry games.

    In a policy that dates to 1985, visiting teams are guaranteed a minimum of $125,000 and a maximum of $200,000 from the ticket receipts for conference games, the home team keeping the rest. Almost every game results in each school writing its opponent a check for $200,000, making it a virtual wash for everybody.

    The lone exception to that is for rivalry games, which was at the heart of the recent controversy over whether to move the Apple Cup to Qwest Field.

    So, again, a team like USC makes heaps more in revenue than a team like Wazzu.

    Speaking of the rivalry games, it used to be that all the rivalry pairs, with the exception of the Washingtons, had similar sized stadia so there was no real financial difference in gate receipts whether it was a home or away game. With Stanford’s new miniature stadium, we are now getting hosed every other year in the similar way to Washington, though slightly less dramatically (we have a 22,000 difference in capacity, they have a 36,000 difference).

    by Scootie on Jun 19, 2010 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

    If you really want to know how bad I misreading things, I kept reading the start of your post as “Thank you for misreading that, Twist.” Man was I confused!

    CGB's Jimmy Carter

    www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

    by TwistNHook on Jun 19, 2010 2:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Not to mention

    Husky Stadium is twice the size of Martin Stadium

    Say what you mean, and say it mean. - Clint Ruin

    by QuackinAK on Jun 19, 2010 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions  

    Interesting thread I'm having with BON commenters about this post

    Want to say hi? Be respectful as always and be reasonable.

    I think as long as we’re arguing constructively we can have a productive debate on this topic between the two communities, but since I called out Texas by name I probably rankled a few feathers.

    Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

    by Avinash Kunnath on Jun 17, 2010 3:49 PM PDT reply actions  

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