The Bob Gregory Firing / Pushed Out Conspiracy Theory
by HydroTech on Apr 16, 2010 3:00 AM PDT
in California Golden Bears Football
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PrintFrom the day that the 2009 Cal Football season ended, one of the big lingering questions entering the off-season was whether Cal head coach Jeff Tedford would retain defensive coordinator Bob Gregory or fire him. Many Cal fans wanted Bob Gregory gone. Cal's defense had gotten much worse in 2009, and looked far from its former 2008 self. The reasons for this decline are debatable. Some say it was because of Gregory's ineptitude. Others cite the loss of three senior linebackers, the lack of effective linebacker pass rushers, and the decline in cornerback play.
On February 17th, 2010, many Cal fans got the news of their life when it was announced that Bob Gregory would be leaving Cal.
Queue the conspiracy theories. Many fans concluded that Bob Gregory was fired. Those theories range from the simple: he was fired. To the slightly more subtle: he was pushed out. To the more imaginative and complex: big donors met with Jeff Tedford and flexed their muscle forcing Tedford to make this decision.
But Jeff Tedford has stated otherwise. In an interview with Glenn Dickey, Tedford states:
"Everyone wants to make it some kind of back-room decision, like [Bob Gregory] was forced out but it wasn’t that at all. I was totally surprised when he walked into my office and said he wanted to leave.
...
He wanted to change his life. At one time, he wanted to be a head coach and he thought being a coordinator would be a stepping stone, but I think he’s decided he wants to spend more time with his family.
...
And to be honest, I think the criticism he got last year might have played into it."
Jeff Tedford - 4/13/10
So what's the truth? Did Jeff Tedford really fire Bob Gregory like so many Cal fans had hoped for during the entire 2009 season? Did Jeff Tedford kindly tell Bob Gregory that it was his time to move on and find another job somewhere? Did big money donors meet with Jeff Tedford and tell him that changes needed to be made?
Or did Jeff Tedford really not see this coming at all like he claims?
In my opinion, I think it pretty much went down the way Jeff Tedford said it did.
I do not think Jeff Tedford is lying to Cal fans. I do not think Bob Gregory was fired. I do not think he was politely shown the door and told to leave ... or else.
I really do think Bob Gregory just felt it was his time to move on to a place where he'd probably be more appreciated, and he'd have more time to spend with his family.
As for all these conspiracy theories about Gregory being fired or shown the door, I don't believe them because they don't make sense.
Before I talk about the Bob Gregory situation, I want to review Jeff Tedford's history of hiring and firing coaches. Below are the dates of hirings and firings of coaches under Jeff Tedford from 2005 to today's date.
2005 Post-Season/2006 Off-Season
December 2005 - Cal WR Coach Eric Kiesau accepts job at Colorado
December 2005 - Cal LB Coach Justin Wilcox accepts job at Boise State
January 3rd, 2006 - Bob Foster & Dan Ferrigno hired as LB and WR coaches.
February 1, 2006 - Cal OC George Cortez resigns to pursue NFL Career
February 2, 2006 - Mike Dunbar hired as OC
2006 Post-Season/2007 Off-Season
January 25, 2007 - Cal OC Mike Dunbar accepts job at Minnesota.
February 1, 2007 - Jim Michalczik promoted to OC, and Kevin Daft promoted to QB Coach.
2007 Post-Season/2008 Off-Season
January ?, 2008 - DB Coach R. Todd Littlejohn, and WR Coach Dan Ferringo are fired.
January ?, 2008 - Cal DL Coach Ken Delgado accepts job at Louisville.
January 6, 2008 - Frank Cignetti hired as OC, and Al Simmons hired as DB Coach.
January 6, 2008 - Kevin Daft promoted to WR Coach and Tosh Lupio promoted to DL Coach.
2008 Post-Season/2009 Off-Season
December 15, 2008 - Cal OL Coach Jim Michalczik accepts job at Washington.
January 28, 2009 - Steve Marshall hired as OL Coach.
February 19, 2009 - Cal OC Frank Cignetti accepts job at Pittsburgh.
February 20, 2009 - Andy Ludwig hired as OC.
2009 Post-Season/2010 Off-Season
December 29th, 2009 - Cal TE/ST Coach Pete Alamar's contract is not renewed.
January 16, 2010 - Jeff Genyk is hired as TE/ST Coach.
February 17, 2010 - Cal DC Bob Gregory accepts job at Boise State.
February 19, 2010 - Clancy Pendergast is hired as DC.
Do you see a pattern with these hirings and firings?
The first thing to note is that the firings happen immediately after the season. Mike Dunbar's departure was more of a mutual departing, but he left pretty early on in the off-season only about four weeks after the 2006 Holiday Bowl Game. It is widely accepted that R. Todd Littlejohn and Dan Ferringo were fired. Those two were fired in early January 2008, right after Cal's 2007 Armed Forces Bowl win on December 31st, 2007. Officially, Ken Delgado accepted a job elsewhere, however the rumors were more that he was kindly shown the door. Nevertheless, Delgado was gone within weeks. In 2009, Pete Alamar's contract was not renewed (essentially fired) immediately after Cal's loss to Utah in the San Diego Poinsettia Bowl.
Bottom line, Jeff Tedford does not waste time when it comes to firing coaches. He gets rid of coaches he doesn't want any more within weeks of the last game, if not within a week of the last game.
What about hirings? Jeff Tedford is pretty keen on hiring new coaches right away. In 2006, Bob Foster and Dan Ferringo were hired within weeks of Eric Kiesau's and Justin Wilcox's departure. In 2007, it was only a week before Tedford replaced Mike Dunbar with Jim Michalczik. In 2008, it was mere *days* when Tedford hired Frank Cignetti and Al Simmons to fill coaching staff openings. 2009 brought about the longest wait as it took Tedford nearly six weeks to find an offensive line coach to replace Jim Michalczik. In 2010, Jeff Tedford replaced Pete Alamar with two weeks, and Bob Gregory within two days.
Bottom line, Jeff Tedford is quick to hire coaches. New coaches are usually found within a few weeks.
What's the most important about the above timeline information is really that Jeff Tedford is quick to fire and get rid of coaches that he will not retain. That should be plainly obvious to everyone.
And that's why the Bob Gregory "firing" does not make sense. In other words, I don't think it was a firing. If Bob Gregory was fired, Jeff Tedford would have given him the axe right after the season, and wouldn't have waited until 6-7 weeks after the bowl game to do the deed.
Some conspiracy theorists say that Tedford was being nice to Gregory. The reasoning here is that as since Gregory was on the original 2002 coaching staff, Jeff Tedford politely showed Gregory the door and waited on announcing the coaching change to protect Gregory's reputation. But that argument is unpersuasive too. Why would Jeff Tedford want to keep Bob Gregory on staff for an extra 6-7 weeks, when he could bring in a new coach in the mean time? Merely because Jeff Tedford was being nice? No.
Think about it. Jeff Tedford wants to bring in a new Defensive Coordinator right away, so that coach can get acclimated to the new team, learn the personnel, and start installing the new defense. It makes no sense to wait to fire someone, or to wait until that someone finds a new job before making it official. Likewise, it makes sense for fired coaches to get their butt out the door fast. They want to get fired early, and leave early, because college football teams hire new coaches early on in the offseason. Thus, those fired coaches want to get their name out there quickly in the hiring process so they can maximize their chances of finding a new job. And college football programs hire new coaches early for the very same aforementioned reasons on why Tedford wants to bring in new coaches quickly: teams want the coaches to get acclimated quickly.
Jeff Tedford had to modify and change the 2010 Spring Practice schedule because Clancy Pendergast needed more time to get settled before jumping right into Spring Practice. Do you think Jeff Tedford wanted to make that alteration to the football schedule? No. Jeff Tedford would have rather brought someone in sooner, have that someone get acclimated to the team in January (not February), and be ready for Spring Practice to start on time.
Remember Ken Delgado was rumored to have been politely showed the door, and he left within a week of the last game of the season. Even Mike Dunbar who mutually parted ways did it within four weeks of the last game of the season. But yet, Gregory and Tedford both agreed to wait seven weeks until after the last game of the 2009 season to announce this change? If you believe that, then you believe that Tedford would sacrifice seven weeks of his team's time *just* as a courtesy to Bob Gregory? I don't think so. Maybe three weeks. But seven??? No way. It's possible, but seems incredibly unlikely.
As I've reasoned above, college football programs want to hire new coaches early on, and fired coaches want to be fired early on. Nobody wants to wait.
Bottom line, if you believe that Bob Gregory was fired, or was politely showed the door and Jeff Tedford kindly waited until Bob Gregory found a new gig to make the coaching change official, then you have to believe that Jeff Tedford was willing to sacrifice seven weeks of the team's valuable time and the new hire's time -- just to save Bob Gregory a little face.
U-N-L-I-K-E-L-Y. Possible, but very unlikely. I know Tedford is loyal to coaches that have been with him since the beginning, but waiting seven weeks??? I don't buy it.
GreyBear over at BearInsider has thrown out his official word that Bob Gregory was pushed out (5th response down). Supposedly GreyBear has more access to insiders and donors, making his hearsay statement mildly more believable than if it came from Joe-Schmo. Anyways, it's possible that I'm wrong, and that Tedford is lying to Cal fans in that Gregory was fired, or was politely shown the door -- meaning then that Tedford straight up lied to Glenn Dickey in Dickey's interview of Tedford. But in my opinion, the facts are in line with Tedford's past firing practices: fire them early, and hire them early. Don't wait. Don't waste the team's time.
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Who cares. Gregory is gone. That is all that matters.
“Guess who had the worst scoring defense in conference play other than Washington State? Here’s a hint: The defensive coordinator is now at Boise State. Yep, Cal surrendered 28.1 points per game. The Bears also ranked ninth in total defense, surrendering 412.9 yards per game vs. conference foes. They were seventh in the Pac-10 in both numbers for the entire season. Pause for a moment and think about how many good players the Cal defense had last year. Hmm.”
by 33SwisherSweet on Apr 16, 2010 6:02 AM PDT reply actions
I don’t think anyone’s arguing Gregory deserved to be let go on merit, but the circumstances around it (and the questionable reporting) are debatable.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 16, 2010 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions
Dude, trust me, there are plenty around here who think that Bob Gregory's track record
was enough to keep him around for a few years.
by 33SwisherSweet on Apr 16, 2010 7:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Well, you’re probably right about that. I’m not necessarily one of those people (I’d have been mostly ambivalent either way), but that’s still not why this was written.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 16, 2010 7:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Agree. It doesn't matter,
and further, if Tedford doesn’t think it’s in his best interests to say BG was fired (if in fact he was), then there is no reason to do so. Why go public to damage a friend’s reputation if you can avoid it? So he’s either protecting his friend or telling the truth. Can’t we just accept that and not pursue it anymore?
Clearly, you don’t care. As odd as it may sound, some of us do kind of care if he was really fired, was pushed out, or left.
I know you hate Bob Gregory, but you could at least let us just have a discussion on the topic instead of just trying to shut down a conversation.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Pause for a moment and think about how many good players the Cal defense had last year. Hmm."
That is sort of a sloppy statement there by Miller. Love the guy for linking us a lot, but Cal only had about three really good players on defense last year: Alualu, Thompson, and Mohammed. But the rest of the defense… not so great.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I’m not even sure I’m solidly on the Mohamed bandwagon rickshaw camel train. He’s good sized, smart, and makes a lot of solid tackles, but he’s not really a showstopper like Follett. I kind of doubt teams plan away from him.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 16, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
I think they will this year (esp Andrew Luck haha), he also isn’t a pass rush specialist like Follet was so his impact is less about big hits on the QB and more about being in the right assignment to stop the inside run, I hope we see continued development out of him this year
Things to Remember: Girls usually don't like it when you yell out "Beast Mode!" when switching to doggy style. - TFLN
I believe we’re missing the Cignetti —> Pitt and Ludwig —> Cal transactions.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Oh....
…..and by the way, it’s FERRIGNO, not Ferringo.
My interpretation of the data presented leads me to think:
Tedford was OK with Gregory staying for the 2010 season (and perhaps beyond), as he wasn’t let go around the same time as Alamar was. Then recruiting season picked up, putting personnel/2010 strategy issues on the back burner. Shortly after signing day, Tedford discussed with Gregory how to improve in 2010 and it likely involved Gregory busting his hump like never before. I say that because Gregory didn’t leave immediately after the season, which would have improved his chances of getting a DC position elsewhere. Pushed out? No. I do believe they had a conversation about how to improve and what it’s going to take time-wise. On Gregory’s end, it sounded like too much considering he has a young family.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
domino effect
I agree that he was probably welcomed to stay on and that there were conversations about how to turn up our defense a notch (or two, or three……), but then the Carrol to Seattle, Kiffin to SC, Wilcox to Tennessee domino occurred unexpectedly. This created a nice opportunity for Gregory to do his thing with a pretty high profile program (2 BCS appearances) without BCS conference pressure. Convenient for both Gregory & Tedford.
The more pertinent question to me is, “Was Pendergrast a ‘hire of the moment’ or someone Tedford had his eyes on for a while?” Not to be disrespectful to Gregory, but are we now in a better position? I guess time will tell, but in April, this is what fills our thoughts.
and tedford is kind of a known work-aholic
and pushes the assistants hard as well.
My personal take, is that Gregory will be named “coach in wating” after a year or two.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Apr 16, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions
Of Boise St.? I think he might have to earn that position a little bit more after all their recent success in the BCS
Things to Remember: Girls usually don't like it when you yell out "Beast Mode!" when switching to doggy style. - TFLN
by CruzinBears on Apr 16, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I like your scenario. But I just don’t see Gregory leaving because a difference in philosophy between him and Tedford.
We all know Tedford wants a more aggressive defense. And we all know Gregory can be aggressive. A lot of Cal fans forget how aggressive our 2008 defense was. The reason why the 2009 defense wasn’t as aggressive was due to our lack of personnel to aggressive. Our 2010 defense looks to have the personnel to be more aggressive, and so I think Gregory could have been more aggressive in 2010. Thus, I don’t necessarily think that Bob Gregory left after some talk with Tedford where Tedford might have told him the defense needed to be more aggressive and Bob Gregory just wouldn’t make it aggressive.
In other words, I really do think Gregory felt like it was time for a change, and he did want an easier lifestyle and more time to spend with the kids.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Apr 16, 2010 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
The only reason I could see them wanting to wait is to get past signing day. I’m not sure if Gregory’s presence would have made a difference for any of the recruits, but it’s possible.
Yes, this is another possibility. Although it’s debatable how heavy a hand BG plays in recruiting. Few recruits have mentioned him as one of the reasons for coming to Cal. Of course, when the Cal coaching staff does in-home visits with defensive players, he’s definitely one of the coaches that attends the visit, so he certainly played some role in recruiting – and especially this year’s recruiting.
I could see BG sticking around until after signing day, but at the same time, that hurts his chances of finding a new job by delaying the placement of his name in the prospective-hires pool.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
It certainly could make a difference in the run-up to signing day. Given Alamar’s ouster earlier in the season, competing programs could easily make the case that Cal is gutting their staff, and maybe your position coach could be next (!), so come to UCLA/Oregon/Washington instead, etc. Holding off on news of Gregory’s departure keeps that kind of talk to a minimum until after the most recent class has signed on.
Signing Day Impacts
I agree that they wanted to get by signing day first. They were competing up to the last second for some top tier players and having BG leave would give competing coaches a chance to tell the recruits things are changing at Cal (who knows what kind of D the new DC would bring, etc). Having the announcement so close after signing day makes me think that is the case.
I’m also sure BG and Coach T knew he was leaving prior. If you look at the reasons that several coaches have left in the past, most of them complain about the long hours. Even BG mentioned it (working smarter?) in his press conference. He probably also had a job before he left so no big deal for him.
I’m also guessing that Coach T had also started looking for a new DC prior to the announcement. He’s not the kind of person to wait until BG’s announcement in my opinion.
by iwasthere4theplay on Apr 16, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Regardless of the reason...
I’m still uneasy about the way this was handled. Who’s lying: GreyBear or Tedford? I’m much more apt to cut Tedford some slack here; personnel matters are never easy to manage, but I do wish he would be more upfront with the media. I suppose his interview with Dickey counts as being “upfront”, but damn if there still isn’t some lingering doubt.
MCCLESKEY!!
Does this really have any affect on the team though? I feel like this is just people making something out of nothing because its April and they are bored…
Things to Remember: Girls usually don't like it when you yell out "Beast Mode!" when switching to doggy style. - TFLN
by CruzinBears on Apr 16, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions
No, not much effect on the team IMO
Aside from messing with the Spring Practice schedule a little bit.
MCCLESKEY!!
Tedford clearly has more motive to lie to protect BG’s reputation. GreyBear really doesn’t seem to have a motive to lie about all this. In fact, because GreyBear is in so tight with the Cal Football program, he actually has more motive to not even mention any details of what happened – and perhaps shouldn’t have even said that Bob Gregory was pushed out.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
If GreyBear hadn't said anything...
then this really wouldn’t be an issue. Not sure why he teased everybody with his statement.
MCCLESKEY!!
This comes off as more of a "fifteen minutes of fame" deal to me...
I don’t know GreyBear nor do I claim to, but something about that statement just seems to demand attention. “I have tasty inside information, and I won’t tell you”, almost like he has a Zapruder-esque film of the incident in texual form. I’ve always praised Tedford for the classy way he treats his players and demands class from them (even DJax didn’t act like a fool until he went pro), and especially the way he shows us respect as fans. I can’t see him jeopardizing his reputation among us, his supporters, for something this trivial. Gregory already has a new position, fresh start, in a different system. How many of us have ever been terminated from a position only to go on to success at the next place? Be happy for the guy, be happy that we have a new coach who is bringing us new exciting energy to our defense, and be happy that we have a guy like Tedford that cares more for our program than someone Kiffin-ish who will leave you high and dry for their own personal gains.
This is a non-story. It’s only still alive because people like GreyBear have to stir the pot. Move on, and let’s focus on where we’re going from here.
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
by Maisbikkja on Apr 16, 2010 2:01 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
One theory that might square with both the unusual timeline and GreyBear’s statement is that this was one of those “Hey, this might not be working out, so you should look for another position that’s a better fit” private conversations that happened between Tedford and Gregory after the season. So Gregory starts looking for a new position (perhaps one with less responsibility, if he’s burnt out) and Tedford starts making inquiries for a new DC on the sly.
Gregory finds a new job at Boise State, and he and Tedford time it so that the announcement comes after signing day and so that the announcement of a new DC can come right afterward.
So in a sense Gregory was “pushed out” by being told that his performance was not acceptable and he needed to shape up or ship out, but he was allowed the time to find a new job so he wouldn’t have to be fired (thus Tedford does not have to lie about the circumstances). This seems to me like the most likely scenario that doesn’t involve either of two generally straight-shooter types (GreyBear and Tedford) lying to the fans about something.
Still seems a little too conspiracy theory-ish to me… Maybe Gregory wanted to leave but didn’t want to shoot Cal in the foot by having them lose a DC during the recruiting season… Maybe he left on his own accord at a time he had planned so that he wouldn’t tarnish a good friendship… People leave jobs all the time, esp when they are criticized by 75% of their “fans” for everything they do… Maybe he wanted to go to a place he would be appreciated, with less stress, while still maintaining the good relationship he built with Tedford over the years…
I don’t think it necessarily has to be someone being sneaky, though I guess at BI it does…
Things to Remember: Girls usually don't like it when you yell out "Beast Mode!" when switching to doggy style. - TFLN
by CruzinBears on Apr 16, 2010 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I would dismiss the conspiracy angle if not for GreyBear’s comment that Gregory was pushed out. GreyBear isn’t like all the other yahoos at BI — he tends to have good inside information and isn’t generally one to lie about things or go off half-cocked about things he isn’t sure about. Basically, if we say Gregory just left of his own accord and Tedford and/or the Athletic Department/donors/etc. did nothing to push him out, then GreyBear is a liar, and I find that hard to believe.
Maybe Tedford doesn’t start looking for a new DC right away and just has “the talk” with Gregory right after the season. Gregory finds a new job after a month or so and they decide the right timing for the announcement is after recruiting season (which would make sense, as you say). In the meantime, Tedford has found his man to replace Gregory.
No mom said you can’t fight with your special ed, poorly formatted sibling or you’ll get grounded
Things to Remember: Girls usually don't like it when you yell out "Beast Mode!" when switching to doggy style. - TFLN
by CruzinBears on Apr 16, 2010 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions
BG
I don’t think anyone thought BG was “inept”. I do think that many thought his fundamental philsophy of playing soft zone defense, culminating in Utah’s destruction of our defense by a freshman QB, was just maddening. Good luck to Bob: he knows the game (again, the philsophy is the issue, not his knowledge of Xs and Os) and he seems to be a stand-up guy.
by KoreAmBear on Apr 16, 2010 11:59 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Hey first time expressing my thoughts here
If Tedford had waited the announcement of Gregory’s departure until BG had found a new employer, then it doesn’t make sense that Clancy Pendergast signed with the Raiders 10 days before joining the Bears. If Tedford ’’fired’’ Gregory way before, then he would have contacted Pendergast already and he wouldn’t have signed with the Raiders.
That might be an honest thing to do, but in the cut throat world of football coaching, you’re always going to have a Plan B. Just ask Nick Saban.
by PlayClassyBears on Apr 16, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Great tos ee you commenting, JustBear. Hope to see you comment much more around the CGB!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Thanks
always enjoyed all the posts on CGB, but never had account so couldn’t comment. but not anymore!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Apr 16, 2010 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
REC'D HARD
For Johnny Chase meme
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
Maybe Clancy got impatient and was offered the Raiders job in the meantime, and accepted it in case the Cal position didn’t materialize.
"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97
by atomsareenough on Apr 16, 2010 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions
Greybear
After over 5 years of reading BearInsider, I have not once seen Greybear say something that has not been accurate. When Greybear speculates, he will usually say as much. But when he matter of factly says something, it has always been accurate. If this was said by anyone else other than Greybear or Moragabear, I would think twice. But I turst Greybear much more than any other media source out there. And not to hurt anyone’s feelings on this blog (cause I think you guys do a great job) but I would trust his word over anyone else’s speculations on this blog (especially since this blog is full of tedforites – jk).
Also, Greybear does not have an agenda. He has generally been very supportive of Tedford and usually defends him, so he has nothing to gain from making this statement. One could argue Greybear may still be upset about getting shut out of practices, but if you know Greybear, he’s not the type to hold petty grudges like that.
I also think that whether Gregory was actually “pushed out” or not is a very big deal. Only for the fact that its important to know whether Tedford is a) outright lying b) bending the truth c) or telling the truth. Because if its a or even b, us as fans have to question everything else that Tedford has told us in the past and in the future. I don’t have a problem with Tedford keeping things internal. Some things should be kept secret for the good of the program. But if he does choose to make a statement to the press/fans, it needs to be truthful.
I think the most likely thing though is that both Greybear is right and Tedford is telling a half-truth. there probably was a great deal of pressure to get rid of Gregory that probably had a great deal to do with Gregory leaving. but its probably complete BS that leaving was 100% Gregory’s idea.
by ryandrew on Apr 16, 2010 1:32 PM PDT reply actions 2 recs
I agree GreyBear’s statements have usually been accurate. I’ve been following BI for 8 years – longer than you. So he is a fairly reputable source. But just the facts and history of Tedford’s firings do not match up to this being a firing. Perhaps this was a push-out… and perhaps even a push-out not even by Tedford but by another person or group.
Back to GreyBear. You say he doesn’t have an agenda, but in fact, I think he does. He has an agenda to support Cal Football and to do as they please. He’s been in tight with Cal Football from very early on. To maintain that relationship he usually does their bidding and helps moderate the internet for Cal Football. Of course, this fact then supports the rationale that GreyBear’s statement is in fact contradictory to Cal Football’s interests. If JT was lying and saying that BG was not fired or pushed out, then it’s in GreyBear’s best interests to perpetuate that belief. Saying otherwise hurts his relationship with JT and Cal Football.
I agree this entire topic isn’t that big of a deal, but it’s interesting to know or speculate whether Tedford is lying or the conspiracy theories have gotten the best of us. I agree some things can stay internal and probably should, and I also agree that if Tedford is going to speak to the media and fans he ought to be honest. If he can’t be honest, then he can merely just choose not to speak about the topic.
I understand you have complete faith in GreyBear, but I would just like to point out how ironic it is that a very small hearsay statement from one man is given more credibility than the word of the Head Coach himself, and the history of firing practices by the Head Coach. If this were a courtroom, I think the argument that Tedford is telling the truth wins hands down.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Apr 16, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
GreyBear
The whole GreyBear angle is what throws me for a loop. I’ve always sensed that things at BI were viewed and reported through blue-colored glasses…very reluctant to criticize, and even when criticizing, done with the lightest and softest touch as to not offend. I always assumed this was to maintain relationships and contacts within the football (and basketball) offices.
So, now we have something written like this, out of the blue (no-pun intended), and it almost is shocking to read. GreyBear most definitely, if telling the truth, is hurting his relationship, which runs contrary to everything he has done or said for years. I, too, have followed BI for 8+ years.
You want a conspiracy theory? How about Tedford wanted GreyBear to put that out there…reasons? who knows? but that would be more interesting of a fact pattern and theory
I should add...
that I’m only talking about the official reports and stories on BI—obviously, the posters/board is a whole different ballgame
Though I would also argue that if Tedford were truly surprised that Gregory decided to quit, it doesn’t make sense that he had a replacement all ready to go just two days later, and it also wouldn’t say much about Tedford’s understanding of his own staff.
I also don’t believe that JT would leave himself in the position of being totally surprised when his Defensive Coordinator decided to resign. It’s more than likely that he knew it would be happening well in advance, which might help to explain GreyBear’s perception that Gregory was pushed out.
if Tedford were truly surprised that Gregory decided to quit, it doesn’t make sense that he had a replacement all ready to go just two days later
Well, maybe. After 2005/2006, George Cortez resigned and Dunbar was hired one day later. That could mean JT knew it was coming and had already sought somebody out, or that he just was really quick in finding someone. We don’t really know.
In 2007/2008, Tedford fired Littlejohn and Ferrigno and had replacements hired within a week.
Most persuasively in 2008/2009, Cignetti accepts the Pittsburgh job and Tedford hires Ludwig the next day. Assuming Tedford had to wait until he got final word from Cignetti on whether Cignetti was going to accept the job or not, then this proves that Tedford has no problem finding a replacement coach within a day.
So honestly, the fact that it took Tedford so little time to find a replacement is not as dispositive as it may seem.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Is it really hard to believe that as long as Tedford has been in the college game, that he might just have a contact sheet with backup hires for every contingency? Like Hydro was saying, He likes to get his Administration running with as few hiccups as possible, so yeah, maybe he just has a lot more friends than we do, people who are qualified and ready to step in when opportunity knocks. The coaching carousel moves very quickly, especially for staff coaches.
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
I would trust his word over anyone else’s speculations on this blog
Most things they say are true, but not everything.
Also, Greybear does not have an agenda.
I don’t doubt that the guy has the best interest of Cal Athletics in mind, but don’t fool yourself into thinking he’s not a business man with an ego and agenda to protect. Check this recap out and you might think twice about it. Was he just going about business as usual with no agenda?
he has nothing to gain from making this statement.
Maybe he doesn’t have anything to lose. Thinking about it from that context changes things a bit, yes?
Moving On
Don’t know your profession Hydro, but your courtroom analogy makes me think you went the way of TwistNHook.
I think you bring up very good points about Greybear’s credibility and the apparent conflict of interest in making his VERY brief statement. It is most likely that this matter is rather complicated and potentially rife with politics (as most organizations are). I think you allude to some of those dynamics and I can only imagine the various stakeholders that have an interest and say in the matter including donors and athletics department staff.
Whatever the spin that is being put out there we should probably trust that there is a good reason for it. The message I can take from JT is: This is a good man who has been with Cal for a long time and served extremely well (barring a handful of short-comings). He should be honored for the accomplishments attained (let’s not forget that amazing 2004 team that shut down the “greatest offense ever” in USC). And he has moved on and decided to focus on things that are important to him (his family).
Whether or not he was forced out is pretty irrelevant. This whole story can be summed up with a handful of points:
1) He did good things for Cal
2) Many feel he didn’t do enough
3) He’s moved on (to Boise and to focus on his family)
4) Cal’s moved on (to Pendergrast and hybrid D)
5) We should too.
by PlayClassyBears on Apr 16, 2010 2:12 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
“I understand you have complete faith in GreyBear, but I would just like to point out how ironic it is that a very small hearsay statement from one man is given more credibility than the word of the Head Coach himself, and the history of firing practices by the Head Coach. If this were a courtroom, I think the argument that Tedford is telling the truth wins hands down.”
I think this is the sad part of this whole “conspiracy theory.” If this happened during Tedford’s first few years, no one would even question Tedford’s statement (even if Greybear made a statement to the contrary). However, some would argue that Tedford has shown a tendency to be less then forthright with the media/fans about certain touchy topics (ie Longshore, Alamar, etc). Thus, if this were a courtroom, Tedford may not be the most credible witness. Which is my point exactly. Under normal circumstances, it would not be a big deal how/why Gregory left. But since Tedford has shown a history of not always telling the entire truth, this Gregory conspiracy theory becomes a bigger topic than it might ordinarily be otherwise.
I think this is the bottomline about Tedford’s current relationship with the fans; Cal fans appreciate Tedford and almost 95% are loyal to him. However, Cal fans are critical of Tedford not necessarily because of the losses, but because we are a) losing AND b) many Cal fans believe that Tedford is not entirely transparent and/or honest when speaking to the fans (ie Tedford treats the fans like little children). Exhibit A is Tedford’s decision to close practices and to truncate spring scrimmage. So this whole Gregory thing is just another example some Cal fans will use to criticize Tedford’s lack of transparency. I think if Tedford were just more open with the fans, he (and the rest of his staff) would receive a whole lot less criticism overall.
One glaring example is the whole Longshore/Riley debacle. If Tedford were just more open with his thought process, I think fans would have understood and respected his decision. Instead, Tedford was often defensive and non-transparent, which led to a lot of different conspiracy theories and criticisms. Cause fans just couldn’t understand why Longshore kept starting. That is what secrecy leads to. This Gregory thing is very similar. That’s just a long way of me saying that I don’t think that Tedford owes us fans anything, however, if he doesn’t want these criticisms and conspiracy theories to come out, then he just needs to give us the full truth.
I also agree with you that Greybear’s statement probably hurts his relationship with Cal. Which is why I believe he wouldn’t say it unless it were true.
Ryan, I have to disagree entirely with your argument. Tedford only become more and more transparent from 2002 through the 2007 season and I think he sees it as a major cause for the debacle that occurred. Fan expectations and over-transparency caused his teams to lose focus on their team goals and focus more on themselves. I suspect his decisions have more to do with his team than shutting out fans. Contrary to what many of us die-hard fans wish was the case: they don’t put as much energy into us as we do them. I think arguing your point only highlights our own narcissism as fans (myself included) that believe it’s really about us when in fact it couldn’t be less so.
by PlayClassyBears on Apr 16, 2010 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions
transparency
I believe the only one thing that will keep Tedford from being the football coach at Cal forever is the defensive/conservative/playing not too lose mentality. It starts with the practices, the only ones in the Pac 10 that are closed, and continues with the frequent no-info coach-speak, soft zones on defense, not blitzing freshman QB’s, centering the ball, predictable playcalls, and 4th & short kicks.
I’ve said before, an aggressive-themed loss is better all around (team, media, fans, coaches, administrators) is fairly close to a conservative-themed win and is MUCH better than a conservative-themed loss. Thankfully, we haven’t had a conservative loss that I can remember, but a few conservative-themed wins.
Of course, he seems to be addressing part of that with Pendergast (who seems agressive-themed) and Genyk (who has installed highly competitive practice elements).
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I’m not sure an aggressive loss is close to a conservative win. Any kind of close loss is a cause for regret and reexamination, and it would just as likely lead to people saying the team would have had won had the team been more conservative. I do agree that an aggressive win is far better than a conservative win (essentially, the difference between Oregon and Ohio State…up until the Rose Bowl), but no one’s going to look at an aggressive loss and say, “We lost…but it was worth it to go for the jugular!”
Or did you not notice the heat that Belichick got for 4th and 2?
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 16, 2010 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions
perhaps it’s the “grass is always greener” thinking.
I think college ball is different in the sense that it’s fairly easy for folks to say “Well, they played hard/tough and gave it everything they got” instead of “They just marched down the field on a 10-play, 80 yard drive while we sat back and kept everything in front of us.”
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
An aggressive loss is the same as a passive loss. If we’d have gone an AGGRESSIVE 8-5 the macho among us would be praising this team while the reasonable people would be angry at how dumb this team was.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Apr 16, 2010 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Not to rehash it, necessarily, but wasn’t his 4th and 2 call essentially right, though, going by the numbers?
"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97
by atomsareenough on Apr 16, 2010 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Right, but the point is that it was still viewed as unnecessarily aggressive. Going for it on 4th and short is almost always viewed as aggressive even when it might be the right decision mathematically, but the point is that the perception was that it was aggressive – and resulted in a loss. And Belichick got all kinds of heat for it as a result. So rather than being lauded for having the balls to make the correct “aggressive” move, he got raked over the coals for taking what as viewed as an unnecessary risk.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 16, 2010 5:26 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, time on the clock/field position/score/team abilities are all relevant factors. In Belichick’s case, going for it and succeeding would have won the game, while going for it and failing didn’t necessarily guarantee a loss. I think people were just pissed that they lost the game and the 4th&2 call was just an outlet for that frustration, regardless of its lack of legitimacy as a gripe.
"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97
by atomsareenough on Apr 16, 2010 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions
That’s exactly the point – because it lost the game, it was unnecessarily aggressive, regardless of its legitimacy as a strategy.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 17, 2010 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions
He should have attended Les Miles' seminar on fourth downs
“Gambling, Coaching, and Hat Wearing: How It Changed My Life”
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
the only ones in the Pac 10 that are closed
Closed practices seemed to be a topic of debate lately. Just wondering why people would think it is a bad idea to keep the gates closed so the hoodrats from Oakland aren’t creepin’ and being a nuisance in the stands, sports agents can’t frolic around freely, and just generally to keep troublemakers who can’t sit still nor shut up from being a distraction. After JT limited practices to family and media only, it didn’t help that the media was still detailing practices down to the nitty gritty and often times providing incorrect assessments of our players.
These are all issues that have popped up in the past but the majority of people seem to ignore.
I think there are many legitimate people who would enjoy watching practice from time to time but don’t have the same access as family members do. People who watch from a distance are not a distraction to the program in any way. Tedford might have good reasons to keep practices closed, but he hasn’t really communicated to the fanbase the reasons for the restricted access, which leaves fans to speculate and feel frustrated since closed practices are not the norm.
California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.
by CaliforniaEternal on Apr 16, 2010 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions
But he has given reason for the closed practices. It’s to keep out scouts and spies of opposing teams.
Some people find that explanation ridiculous, but a lot of people also forget that the Tennessee coaches in 2006 (after beating us handily) said that they knew our signals — referring to hand signals and knew our plays before we were running them.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
http://www.dailycal.org/article/21263/longshore_to_remain_starting_quarterback_against_g
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
And actually, closed practices ARE the norm. Most Cal fans only think it’s not because good ol’ Pete Carroll ran open practices and that was widely publicized.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Uh, actually Cal is the only team in the Pac 10 that has closed practices.
So says Ted Miller
And, oh by the way, Cal fans: Your team is the only one in the conference with closed practices. That’s my guess why there’s been such a dearth of stories this spring.
Which is why a HydroTech post supporting something Tedford does is always the most biased thing you will read.
always the most biased thing you will read
And people wonder why I never go to BI.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 17, 2010 6:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I also must have missed the part where GreyBear actually backed up what he said.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 17, 2010 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I must have missed the part
where I said he did back it up.
So he doesn’t have to back it up, but Hydro’s still biased? So you’re telling me calling out a baseless conspiracy claim is the most biased thing you’ll ever read?
Are you fucking kidding me?
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 17, 2010 6:51 PM PDT up reply actions
I like it much better when we don’t take people seriously.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
You’re right, I’ll just picture him as Palvador instead.
Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.
by yellow fever on Apr 17, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions
You guys declared war on BI
And you didn’t even email me about it?
Weaksauce. :(
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
by Maisbikkja on Apr 18, 2010 12:15 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
He has offered up reasons for closing practice like Hydrotech has mentioned. I just gave you a few more. Have you ever tried just asking? People that speculate and get frustrated are the ones who choose not to listen, read about it, remember it, or ask the simple question “why?” Partaking in conspiracies and believing in the layman’s ignorant theories is much easier to do, no?
Hey, it’s just my opinion that practices should be open, especially for the media. I do follow the reports, and I am aware of the improprieties that occurred. If the current system works, so be it. I just worry about the consequences for the program if some of the media outlets choose to discontinue coverage due to inadequate access. So far that hasn’t been the case, but the importance of media coverage can’t be overstated.
California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.
by CaliforniaEternal on Apr 16, 2010 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions
As soon as CGB gets a media pass, I’m heading for the hills. Tedford would quickly tire of the CGB minions, blow up at a press conference they are who we thought they were style, and Sandy would then banish all the yokels who were involved in the campaign to get CGB the press pass. I will have disaffiliated in time to spare myself, hopefully.
California Football. At home in Strawberry Canyon since 1923.
by CaliforniaEternal on Apr 16, 2010 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
When we get credentials
I want to borrow them.
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
As long as you promise to continue the tradition of being a trusted media source who makes vague statements leading to 50 page threads chock full of conspiracy theories, then I would definitely support your idea..
I'll start practicing now
“I can’t get into details, but reliable stories tell me that the cake is a lie… "
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
by Maisbikkja on Apr 17, 2010 6:32 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
One glaring example is the whole Longshore/Riley debacle. If Tedford were just more open with his thought process, I think fans would have understood and respected his decision
Fans would have still been pissed no matter what because Nate Longshore was Nate Longshore and Kevin Riley was Kevin Riley. Considering Riley’s body of work the past 2 years, do you think most Cal fans would be arguing with Tedford now with his decision? Most of the boobirds and people who hated Longshore have already moved onto greener pastures and are talking about who will be our starting QB in 2011. I feel sorry for Hinder because if he’s not ready to go, the same fans are going to rip hm to shreds like his predecessors.
Why even wait?
HINDER IS A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FAILURE! THE HINDER ERA AT CAL CANNOT END SOON ENOUGH!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Why stop at Hinder?
I hear our LOI ’012 and ’14 QBs will be complete busts! And between you and me, since Tedford never talks about our ’13 QB that must mean he secretly hates that guy already and pushing him out the door.
ALLLLLLLAMARRRRRR!!!
Just for old times sake.
by BlackandOldGold on Apr 16, 2010 2:28 PM PDT reply actions
All the things needed to dispel this “conspiracy theory” can be found in articles printed this week in Bay Area publications, having the dates of certain position openings handy, and your Sherlock Holmes hat properly placed on your head. Magnifying glass is optional.
If you are still not convinced after reading through Hydrotech’s additional commentary, then you belong here.
People must be really itching for September to roll around.
insightful analysis, HydroTech, but...
You would have more credibility if you had your facts straight:
• You refer to the former ST/TE coach as “Steve” Alamar in one of the references;
• Our DL coach is Tosh Lupoi (not Lupio);
• Daft was not “promoted” from QB to WR coach, as that move would be lateral;
• [Someone else already mentioned that former WR coach is “Ferigno” not “Feringo”]
• You don’t mention the hiring of LB coach Kenwick Thompson;
• Similarly, you don’t mention the one-year hirings (and voluntary departures of) former LB coach Bob Foster.
People who are surprised at how quickly Tedford moves to hire replacements for coaches who chose to move-on are ignoring the loyalty that exists within the staff; an assistant coach on good terms with his boss would give adequate notice so that a successor can be found without disruption to the team.
I am confident the parting of ways was amicable. Nevertheless, as someone else noted, Gregory has moved on; Tedford and Cal have moved on; it is time for the fans to do the same.
Nitpicking is FUN, ain’t it?
You would have more credibility if you had your facts straight:
• [Someone else already mentioned that former WR coach is "Ferigno" not "Feringo"]
This is a CLASSIC. If you can’t spell correctly when you are trying to rip somebody else’s work, my advice to you is just use a link next time: Dan Ferrigno
Daft was not "promoted" from QB to WR coach, as that move would be lateral;
I absolutely hate it, too, when people make simple mistakes with the words they choose to use while writing things late at night and there’s no editor to review it.
You refer to the former ST/TE coach as "Steve" Alamar in one of the references
I absolutely hate it, too, when I forget the name of the man who gave me nightmares for years.
Our DL coach is Tosh Lupoi (not Lupio)
Simple spelling mistakes happen at times, would you not agree?
You don’t mention the hiring of LB coach Kenwick Thompson
I absolutely hate it, too, when I provide 18 links that prove my point but forget that 1 other link that further support my argument.
Similarly, you don’t mention the one-year hirings (and voluntary departures of) former LB coach Bob Foster.
You saved your best material for last, didn’t you?
You may want to leave the condescending tone out of your response next time because it makes you look really stupid.
The Lupoi one isn’t even a spelling mistake; it’s a typo. What a silly nit to pick.
"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97
by atomsareenough on Apr 17, 2010 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I like to keep the condescendng tone in all of my responses, because I can’t look any more stupid than I already do. It’s win-win!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
We got rid of the politics, now can we please work on getting rid of the damn nitpicking?!
"The American Prejudice against carp developed as follows, First we trashed our waters to the point where nothing but carp would survive in them. And then we blamed the carp for trashing the water."
- J. Robert Buffler and Thomas J. Dickson
by Maisbikkja on Apr 18, 2010 12:21 AM PDT via mobile up reply actions
good article, good reasoning
why taint it with the obligtory “stupid journalist who gets paid and therefore has more access than me” comment?
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@
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| Presbyterian | Sat 09/17 | W 63 - 12 |
|
@
Washington
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| North | Conf | Overall | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| W | L | W | L | |
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Oregon Ducks
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|
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|
USC Trojans
|
7 | 2 | 10 | 2 |
|
UCLA Bruins
|
5 | 4 | 6 | 8 |
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Utah Utes
|
4 | 5 | 8 | 5 |
|
Arizona St. Sun Devils
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