Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: News And Other Updates Leading Up To Pats-Giants

A closer look at Chip Kelly's response to the actions of Jeremiah Masoli, LeGarrette Blount, and LaMichael James

HydroTech:  When I heard that Masoli was going to be charged with burglary, I immediately became highly interested in his punishment from head coach Chip Kelly.  The reason is probably obvious.  Jeremiah Masoli is Oregon's starting QB and the player that is crucial for making their tricky shotgun read-option offense run smoothly.  Without him, Oregon's chances at repeating last year's success will undoubtedly be hampered -- and by a lot.  So does Chip Kelly spare Masoli from a multi-game suspension for the team's sake?  Or does Chip Kelly ignore his team's chance at winning games and dole out punishment for one of his player's misbehavior regardless of the effect it will have on the Oregon Football team's chances of winning games?  That's an interesting question.

During last season, LeGarette Blount was essentially suspended for about 8-10 games for his famous punch to the face (Blount sat out an entire 10 games, but if I recall correctly he resumed practices with the team after about 8 games or so).  If a punch to the face will get a players suspended for about 8-10 games, then what does a felony get?  I think the punishment for committing a felony has to be proportional to the punch in the face.  So which ever one is worse, should get more punishment time. 

Briefly, here are some of my initial thoughts:


(1) Masoli getting suspended for the entire year is probably about right.  His crime is a felony.  The fact that the charge was reduced to a misdemeanor (in his exchange for his guilty plea) should have no bearing on his punishment, and his punishment should still reflect that the crime was a felony.

(2) If a punching in the face warrants an 8 game suspension or so then felony burglary ought to be punished with more than 8 game suspension.  The reasoning there being that a felony burglary charge is worse than punching someone in the face. 

(3) Does the fact that Jeremiah Masoli lied to Chip Kelly about his involvement in the burglary matter?  Should that have an impact on his punishment?  In my opinion, it should.  However, the biggest factor in determining his punishment is still his crime committed. 

TwistNHook, what say you?  Please enlighten my lay self with some lawyer talk.

Star-divide

TwistNHook:  All very interesting thoughts, Hydro. 

The first is your comment about Masoli being suspended for the year being about right independent of the guilty plea.  It is perhaps true or perhaps an apocryphal story, but people speak of Bobby Bowden "praying for a misdemeanor."  This was no misdemeanor.  This was premeditated.  But what was it that Masoli, in specific, did?  Let's take a look at what Masoli did and compare and contrast that with what LaMichael James and LeGarrette Blount did.

I.  Jeremiah Masoli - Burglary In The Second Degree

Jeremiahmasoli_medium

via images.athlonsports.com

First up, Masoli, who entered a fraternity house for the purpose of misappropriating some items there.


Fraternity member Max Wolfard filed a report with police alleging that the players took two MacBook Pro computers -- one valued by its owner at $2,000, the other by its owner at $1,500 -- and a $900 guitar from the Sigma Alpha Epsilon fraternity house at 812 E. 14th Ave. in Eugene early Sunday.

 




Wolfard, a 20-year-old sophomore from Portland, is adamant he has correctly identified the players, whom he encountered upon entering the house.

"The minute I stepped on the staircase I said to myself, 'Wow, Masoli and Embry are in our house right now," Wolfard told The Oregonian on Sunday afternoon. "Masoli has a very distinctive face, very distinctive facial hair -- not to mention I see him on TV all the time."

Wolfard said he didn't think anything of Masoli and Embry's presence at first given that he'd seen them at the fraternity house before. But when they started to act "suspicious" -- and appeared to be hiding something -- he demanded to know what they were doing, he said. Wolfard said it was then that he noticed Embry was carrying what appeared to be Wolfard's digital projector, which he says is valued at $560.

Wolfard said the two players then ran out the back door. Wolfard said Masoli fled north and Embry cut west toward Alder Street and then ran through alleys as Wolfard chased him. Blocks later, Wolfard says, Embry stopped running, handed him the projector and said, "You've got it back, now you better get out of here."

Wolfard, who said there was no evidence of forced entry at the fraternity house, returned to find his room unlocked and his guitar and computer missing. He then called police.

Max Iantorno, 20, a sophomore and fellow SAE member, arrived at the fraternity house soon afterward to also find the door to his room open and his laptop missing.

 


My understanding is that Masoli and Embry went to this fraternity house late at night for the sole purpose of obtaining this property.  When confronted, they fled, and then returned some of the property. 

Masoli was charged with Burglary in the Second Degree.  I am not an Oregon state criminal attorney, but I believe Oregon Revised Statute 164.215 is the statute that he violated:

Except as otherwise provided in ORS 164.255 (Criminal trespass in the first degree), a person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

(2) Burglary in the second degree is a Class C felony. [1971 c.743 §136; 1993 c.680 §24]

A few thoughts here.

1.  Apparently, if Masoli had attempted to take the items in question from an empty field, it would not have been burglary.  You have to enter or remain unlawfully in a building.

2.  Masoli committed the crime the moment he walked through the apparently unlocked door.

 

He did not plea to stealing or theft or anything like that.  He pled to burglary, which is a Class C Felony.  And that was knocked down to a misdemeanor, I believe, pursuant to Oregon Revised Statute Section 161.570.  I might be reading this wrong, but I think that is what section 2 of that code section states.

161.570 Felony treated as misdemeanor. (1) As used in this section, "nonperson felony" has the meaning given that term in the rules of the Oregon Criminal Justice Commission.

      (2) A district attorney may elect to treat a Class C nonperson felony or a violation of ORS 475.840 (3)(a), 475.854, 475.864 (2) or 475.874 as a Class A misdemeanor. The election must be made by the district attorney orally or in writing at the time of the first appearance of the defendant. If a district attorney elects to treat a Class C felony or a violation of ORS 475.840 (3)(a), 475.854, 475.864 (2) or 475.874 as a Class A misdemeanor under this subsection, the court shall amend the accusatory instrument to reflect the charged offense as a Class A misdemeanor.

 

 

Note that he was only charged with entering a building with intent to commit a crime and not the actual crime itself.  This way it could be bumped down to a lower level.  Why?  Perhaps due to evidence problems that would have made it difficult to prove theft?  Not sure.  I'll spare you the closer look at Theft since it was never charged.

Both Burglary In The Second Degree and Theft are Class C Felonies.  What is the punishment for an Oregon Class C Felony?  Pursuant to Oregon Penal Code Section 161.605, it is 5 years.

     161.605 Maximum prison terms for felonies. The maximum term of an indeterminate sentence of imprisonment for a felony is as follows:

      (1) For a Class A felony, 20 years.

      (2) For a Class B felony, 10 years.

      (3) For a Class C felony, 5 years.

      (4) For an unclassified felony as provided in the statute defining the crime. [1971 c.743 §74]

 

 

And what is the punishment for a Class A Misdemeanor.  Pursuant to Oregon Revised Statute 161.615, it is 1 year:

 

Sentences for misdemeanors shall be for a definite term. The court shall fix the term of imprisonment within the following maximum limitations:

(1) For a Class A misdemeanor, 1 year.

(2) For a Class B misdemeanor, 6 months.

(3) For a Class C misdemeanor, 30 days.

 

What was the Court's eventually punishment?  According to this ESPN article from friend of the blog Ted Miller, there was no jail time:

Both were sentenced to 12 months of probation and 140 hours of community service. Together they must also pay $5,000 restitution.

Again, I am not an Oregon criminal attorney, so I am not fully sure as to why they went with solely burglary as compared to solely theft or a combination thereof.  Perhaps you can only bump one felony down to a misdemeanor.  Perhaps there were some evidence problems surrounding theft, while burglary was easier to prove and had the same end result of the Class C Felony bumpable to a misdemeanor. 

The DA knocks it down to a misdemeanor, but the reality is this IS a felony.  It should be treated with the same level of seriousness, no matter what deal they cut with the football superstar. 

HydroTech:  So Masoli could have been charged with both theft and burglary?  You're the lawyer here so correct me if I'm wrong but that seems a little redundant.  That's like charging a murderer for assault, battery, attempted murder, and murder ... for a murder.  In other words (and correct me if I'm wrong here), it seems like the criminal should only get charged for the most heinous crime committed, rather than all the other underlying crimes also committed to attain that heinous crime unless those other underlying crimes are separate crimes in themselves.  Thus, it seems to me that the crime that Masoli intended to commit upon entering the frat house was theft, which creates a more heinous crime committed -- burglary, and that's what he should solely be charged with. 

But I do agree with you, Mr. TwistNHook, that Masoli's crime should be treated with the seriousness that he was charged with, and not with the subsequent charge after the deal.  How Masoli pleads, and any resulting deal that is cut for his plea, does not change the fact that the crime he has committed was determined by the Oregon legislature to be a felony.

TwistNHook:  Now, let's take a look at what LeGarrette Blount did.

II.  LeGarrette Blount - Battery

Blount2_400_medium

via offsideswithfletcher.files.wordpress.com

The first thing to remember is that Blount committed his crime in the state of Idaho.  Again, I am not an Idaho attorney.  He committed a battery. 

Definition from Section 18-903:

    18-903.  BATTERY DEFINED. A battery is any:

(a) Willful and unlawful use of force or violence upon the person of
another; or

(b) Actual, intentional and unlawful touching or striking of another
person against the will of the other; or

(c) Unlawfully and intentionally causing bodily harm to an individual.


 




 

And the punishment for Battery? Idaho Code Section 18-904:

  18-904.  BATTERY -- PUNISHMENT. Battery is punishable by a fine not

exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail
not to exceed six (6) months, or both unless the victim is pregnant and this

fact is known to the batterer, in which case the punishment is by a fine not
exceeding one thousand dollars ($1,000), or by imprisonment in the county jail

not to exceed one (1) year, or both.



 

The formatting on this is a bit weird (damn you, Idaho-based internet!), so allow me to recap.  Blount caused bodily harm through force.  There was no deadly weapon or any such thing, so it is not aggravated.  You can be punished by a $1,000.00 fine and imprisonment not to exceed 6 months.  This is pretty cut and dry.  There was never any Court proceeding.  Blount got suspended for 8 games by Chip Kelly.  Let's take a look at LaMichael James' situation.

 

III.  LaMichael James - Harassment

Lamichael-james_medium

via norcalvol.files.wordpress.com

The first thing to look at is the Sentencing Memo found here.  When most people hear domestic violence, they think the worst immediately.  However, let's take a moment to read the facts and interpret them in the light most favorable to James (because we're nice guys like that).

Girl goes to James house.  Girl finds other girl and no James.  Girl, for reasons we will not assume, becomes agitated and will not leave.  Other girl apparently contacts James, who drives to the house. 

At this point, the sentencing memo is vague, but it notes that James "physically removed" the victim from the entryway to his house and that he was holding onto her arm.  So, he apparently grabbed her arm with an unclear amount of strength and tried to walk her away from the house.  She grabbed his clothing angrily, breaking his necklace.  He grabbed the collar of her shirt and tried to walk/push her to the car.  She got into the car and turned it off.  He then tried to pull her out of the car.  She had the keys to the car and started to run away, he ran after her, caught her and then fell, together, in mulch.  He took the keys from her and then they calmed down.

This is certainly a complicated situation.  It appears to be a heated exchange where both parties physically grabbed the other.  Of course, James is a physically strong human being whose grasp could probably cause quite a bit of damage.  In the heat of the moment, he clearly made some mistakes, no denying that. 

The sentencing memo notes that the police were legally required to arrest James pursuant to the Oregon Family Abuse Prevention Act.  Pursuant to Oregon Revised Statute 133.055, they had a duty to do so:

..[W]hen a peace officer responds to an incident of domestic disturbance and has probable cause to believe that an assault has occurred between family or household members, as defined in ORS 107.705 (Definitions for ORS 107.700 to 107.735), or to believe that one such person has placed the other in fear of imminent serious physical injury, the officer shall arrest and take into custody the alleged assailant or potential assailant.



Pursuant to the Sentencing Memo, this was apparently a tad bit of overkill.  The 2nd paragraph on the 2nd page notes that, although the Abuse Act has saved many lives, it is also common to modify the charges once further investigation has been done.  That is exactly what happened here.  This ESPN article has the story:



James, who set a Pac-10 freshman record with more than 1,500 yards rushing last season, originally faced five misdemeanor charges, including strangulation, harassment and assault. All but one harassment charge were dropped.



So, what is harassment?  Pursuant to Oregon Revised Statute Section 166.065, harassment is:



A person commits the crime of harassment if the person intentionally:

(a) Harasses or annoys another person by:

(A) Subjecting such other person to offensive physical contact;




Also note that:



(3) Harassment is a Class B misdemeanor.

 


So, essentially, James pled to subjecting the victim to offensive physical contact.  It is not battery, which requires bodily damage, or even assault, which requires attempted bodily damage, but merely offensive physical contact. Illegal touching as it were.  There is much more that constitutes harassment, but that is what is relevant to this particular case. 

We already saw the punishment for a Class B Misdemeanor is up to 6 months in jail.  What is the potential fine?  Pursuant to Oregon Revised Statute 161.635:

A sentence to pay a fine for a misdemeanor shall be a sentence to pay an amount, fixed by the court, not exceeding:

 

(a) $6,250 for a Class A misdemeanor.

(b) $2,500 for a Class B misdemeanor.

(c) $1,250 for a Class C misdemeanor.

 

So, the punishment for harassment is a fine of up to $2,500 and up to 6 months in jail.  Pursuant to James' plea deal, he will apparently get no fine, have 10 days of jail (which are waived due to overcrowding) and 24 months probation. 

 

IV.  There are two separate ways to look at the punishment.

James had a crime of up to six months in jail.  Blount had a crime of up to one year.  Masoli, up to 5.  So, you could argue that Masoli's crime was 5x worse than Blounts and 10x worse than James, although that is a fast and loose interpretation of things.  His punishment, however, will not be 5x worse.  An argument could be that Masoli got away easier.

Especially considering that I think there are 2 main reasons why what Masoli did was worse than Blount and James:

1.  Blount's crime and James' were certainly idiotic, but it was a foolish mistake made in the heat of passion after being taunted by the BSU player or in a heated altercation with his girlfriend.  Masoli's crime was in cold blood with premeditation.  I don't want to justify Blount's actions or James' actions, but Masoli's were UNBELIEVABLY more avoidable.

2.  Masoli lied to Chip Kelly and the police about it.  Blount apparently showed immediately remorse and worked incredibly hard to get himself out of Kelly's doghouse.  James' also apologized immediately for his actions.  Masoli, however, deceived his coach and law enforcement for a lengthy period of time. 

Of course, the counter argument would be that James' punishment was incredibly light.  Blount's crime was, using our poor metric, twice as bad as James' crime.  Blount got 8 games suspension.  James got 1.  Should James have gotten 4 games?

Or should we look at it from James' angle.  If 6 months potential jail time is 1 game, then maybe Masoli should have gotten 10 games instead of 13  Should Blount have gotten 4 instead of 8?

Well, I think you have to make a delineation on how you are looking at the sentences.  The first way is to look at the suspensions as a means to obtain justice for the victims.  There, Masoli's punishment might have been too harsh compared to James' punishment. 

However, if you are looking at the suspensions as a means to punish the accused for the damage they did to Oregon, then things make a little more sense.  James' crime is nothing compared Blount's and Masoli's.  Blount did his crime on national television with a viewing audience of millions.  Masoli, even if nobody was physically harmed from his actions, deceived his own coach, breaching trust.  James committed his crime on a street with a viewing audience of potentially one to two people.  Blount's crime, while 2x worse under our metric was infinity times worse under the damage done directly to the Oregon program.  Masoli's crime, while non-violent, threatened to harm the very success of the team itself.  That is our next discussion.

HydroTech:  Although I do believe that Masoli's punishment is fair, I also agree that he did get off easier than he could have.  If punching in the face will get you suspended for 8 games or so, and if a class C felony is 5X worse than a punch to the face, then Masoli could easily have been suspended for up to 40 games.  In other words, Masoli's career as a college football player would be over because he doesn't have enough eligibility left to sit out 40 games. 

Even if Masoli had been kicked off of the team, I would not think such a punishment to be overly harsh.  His crime is a felony.  Felonies are serious crimes.  Other college football head coaches have not trended towards keeping felony players on scholarship.  I can't really think of any coaches who have kept players on the team after committing a felony (I have a bad memory so perhaps someone can refresh my memory).  No matter how much rehabilitation Chip Kelly hopes to impart upon Jeremiah Masoli over the next year of his suspension, I'm not sure that committing felony deserves such a chance at rehabilitation.  But Chip Kelly seems to think otherwise -- and he might have a point. 

V.  Chip Kelly's job is not to get justice for the victims of the crimes, but instead protect and promote Oregon football.

Chipkelly_medium

via buckeyebanter.com

TwistNHook:  I agree that the biggest factor should be the crime committed, but, on the same wavelength, Chip Kelly is not a cop.  It  is not his job to punish Masoli for the damage he did to the fraternity brothers.  That is the cops job.  It is Chip Kelly's job to protect and promote Oregon football, which means showing that they will not tolerate criminality, but also working to rehabilitate the fallen players.

HydroTech:  In many other cultures, drug users are not punished for their acts, but are rehabilitated.  In other words, instead of being sent to the penitentiary to punch out some license plates, drug users get sent off to swank rehab centers for massages, meditation, and group therapy (slight exaggeration there!).  The reasoning being that punishment is less likely to induce a person to change than education, therapy, and persuasion. 

Chip Kelly seems to be following this approach himself.  This seems to indicate that Chip Kelly's belief that he is a parental figure to his players, rather than merely a college football head coach.  By hoping to rehabilitate his players, Chip Kelly is hoping to turn them into productive and honest citizens.  This goal is not one that a person typically thinks of when they think "college football head coach."  If a head coach was truly acting in the best interests of his football team, then he'd probably just kick the player off the team to open up the scholarship spot and bring in someone else who can play and not break local laws.  Chip Kelly did the opposite.  He kept on scholarship an at-risk player.  He's taking a chance.  He's putting the rehabilitation of a player ahead of the football team.  It's a noble effort and an effort which demonstrates how the duties of college football head coaches have changed.  Nowadays they're not just about winning games, but helping their players mature and grow into responsible human beings. 

Jeff Tedford has always made it known that one of his duties as a college football head coach is to mold his players into mature and responsible citizens.  He has cultivated a "family" atmosphere and probably considers himself to be a bit of a father to all his players.  However, he hasn't always taken the rehabilitative approach when confronted with player misconduct.  When a Cal player committed an armed robbery, that player was kicked off the team.  Was this the right approach?  Or perhaps the severity of that crime justified not giving that player a chance at rehabilitation with the team?

TwistNHook notes that Chip Kelly's job is to punish the offending player that the player has done unto the team.  That may be true.  But it's also Chip Kelly's job to protect the team from further damage from that player.  An argument could be made that by keeping Masoli on the team that he will continue to do harm by his continued presence.  He will be a distraction.  His continued presence on the team may be a divisive issue among the players.  He will be a felony criminal wearing an Oregon football jersey.  That is not an image that most college football coaches would like to bear. 

In fact, a coach's stance on how to handle felony-committing players is probably tied directly to whether they are risk adverse or risk seeking.  Tedford has always been a fairly risk adverse coach.  He might see the potential harm of keeping a felony player on scholarship to rehabilitate as greater than the potential rewards (a rehabilitated player, and the positive publicity) .  Kelly, on the other hand, seems to be more of a risk seeker.  He sees the potential reward of rehabilitation as worth the risk of keeping a felony player on scholarship. 

TwistNHook:  In my view, it is Kelly's job to punish Masoli for the damage that Masoli did to the team.  That might be a controversial view, but I think that is the real reason why you see the disparities between James' and Blount's punishments and Masoli's.  James apologized, admitted his mistake.  Masoli did not.

Trust is, BY FAR, the most important part of any organization.  Ever.  Whether you are talking about the team of people here at CGB or the Oregon football team, you need to trust that the other people working alongside you are people you can rely upon.  Chip Kelly now knows (perhaps not for the first time) that he cannot rely upon Masoli.  That is a pretty massive breach of trust.  In a sport heavily dependent on team chemistry and reliance upon all the various moving parts, an argument could be made that the lying was MUCH worse than the actual crime (which was entering a building with intent to steal).

The problems with Masoli could also hurt recruiting.  Oregon is obviously a big recruiting powerhouse, but they also compete with many other great schools in fierce recruiting battles.  At a recent alumni event, Cal running backs coach Ron Gould noted one of the keys to recruiting:


He (Coach Gould) discussed what goes into the recruitment of some players.  He said you have to focus on the decision maker, which is the mother 90% of the time.

21532_912097207733_1218201_50330852_7557043_n_medium_medium

"Cal Running back coach Ron Gould"

Recruiting obviously doesn't take place in a vacuum.  Family members, such as mothers, are key components to the decision making process.  Responsible adults are not going to be too keen on letting their children go to a school where it seems as if the inmates run the asylum.  This is already starting for Oregon as recruiting superstar solarise has noted:

One of the top players on the West Coast this recruiting cycle is Auburn, Wash., standout Danny Shelton, who’s picking up more offers and being recognized as a must-have prospect in the 2011 class.

Shelton’s latest offer is from UCLA and the Bruins join California, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State and Idaho on his list. The offer from UCLA is big, Shelton said, and it will be strongly considered as the process continues into his senior season.

Shelton said Oregon was his favorite school but he’s recently cooled on the Ducks because of their recent spate of off-the-field problems.

By punishing Masoli here, Chip Kelly sends a message to the recruits and parents of recruits everywhere:  We WILL run a clean ship here at Oregon.  We will NOT tolerate this.  So, the punishment for Masoli is again due to the damage Masoli is doing to the team by potentially hurting recruiting.  A football coach cannot be everywhere to babysit his players.  Sometimes they might do something criminal.  Sometimes, it might be on national TV in front of millions.  Other times, it might be late at night in front of just one fraternity brother.  Either way, it can have major negative effects on the team independent of any negative effects on the victims.  I don't believe that it is Chip Kelly's responsibility to get justice for the victims of the crimes, but to do everything in his power to protect Oregon football.  If these players committed the crimes and there were no victims and nobody knew except for Chip Kelly, I am not sure we see these levels of punishments or even punishments at all.

Although there might be a short term value to not suspending Masoli (i.e. he plays) and others, it sends the wrong message and could have long term consequences that are worse, including potential loss of recruits who could be as good or even better than Masoli/James et al. 

 

VI.  Conclusion

Honestly, this is a very complicated situation.  Chip Kelly has been put in a very awkward position and is doing his best to try to deal with some frustrating events.  I do not envy his job here.  He had one player commit a moderately violent crime with nobody watching and gave what I view to be a light punishment.  He had one commit a fairly violent crime with the entire world watching and gave a pretty fair punishment.  Then, he had one player commit a completely non-violent crime with nobody watching and gave what could be viewed as a lighter punishment when compared to Blount's punishment.  However, when compared to James' punishment, handed down at the same time, it could be argued that Masoli's punishment was overly harsh.  If James' punishment is 1 game, then perhaps Masoli should only have a 8-10 game suspension instead of the 12-13 game suspension.  

However, Masoli's damage to the team was remarkably larger than James'.  He lied to his coach.  He proved he is untrustworthy.  So, the punishment is less in line with the damage done to the victims and more in line with the damage done to the team.  I think Chip Kelly handled this situation admirably.  Hopefully, he has to deal with this much more often.  HydroTech, any last thoughts?

HydroTech: I think I will refrain from punching you in the face from now on.  I don't want to burn up the rest of my eligibility!

What do you, the readers think?  Did Chip Kelly take the right actions?  What is Chip Kelly's role in this matter? 

Poll
What are your thoughts?
Chip Kelly made the correct decisions
588 votes
Chip Kelly made the incorrect decisions, because the suspensions were too harsh
18 votes
Chip Kelly made the incorrect decisions, because the suspensions were too light
119 votes
Chip Kelly made the incorrect decisions for more complicated reasons than can be explained in a poll choice and I will explain my thoughts further in the comments
30 votes

755 votes | Poll has closed

Comment 173 comments  |  8 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Responding to one legal point
HydroTech: So Masoli could have been charged with both theft and burglary? You’re the lawyer here so correct me if I’m wrong but that seems a little redundant. That’s like charging a murderer for assault, battery, attempted murder, and murder … for a murder. In other words (and correct me if I’m wrong here), it seems like the criminal should only get charged for the most heinous crime committed, rather than all the other underlying crimes also committed to attain that heinous crime unless those other underlying crimes are separate crimes in themselves. Thus, it seems to me that the crime that Masoli intended to commit upon entering the frat house was theft, which creates a more heinous crime committed — burglary, and that’s what he should solely be charged with.

Yes, he could be charged with both. The law does not bar redundancy at that stage of the proceeding. And eventually, unless there’s something different in Oregon criminal procedural than in other jurisdictions, if the case were to have gone to trial, he could have technically been found guilty of both. If that happened, the doctrine of “merger” could have kicked in, where the judge might have (again, depending on what the applicable criminal rules are) “merged” the theft conviction into the burglary one.

On a related matter, it’s not uncommon (from my understanding of criminal practice) for a prosecutor to charge both a greater offense and a lesser included offense. (Here, the “greater” offense would be burglary and theft could be viewed as a lesser included offense.) A reason for doing that would be if the prosecutor anticipated proof problems with the greater offense.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 6:20 AM PDT reply actions  

This. And the legal meaning of burglary is different from how that word is used in common discussion. Burglary is entering an occupied building with the intent of committing a crime inside the building. No actual crime has to occur inside. The burglary is complete when the defendant enters the building with the intention of committing a crime. And theft does not have to be the reason for entering the building. It can be any felony and, in most states, certain other specified crimes.

Burglary is a more serious crime than theft, because it is considered especially dangerous for a criminal to enter a building where people are present, or where the people may return unexpectedly, with criminal intent. There is a high risk that the burglar will assault or even kill the occupants of the building to prevent apprehension. On the other hand, simple theft does not pose the same kind of danger.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions  

Burglary is a more serious crime than theft, because it is considered especially dangerous for a criminal to enter a building where people are present, or where the people may return unexpectedly, with criminal intent. There is a high risk that the burglar will assault or even kill the occupants of the building to prevent apprehension.

Seems reasonable to me to think, based on this logic, that if there were people in the building (like the story made it sound) and no violence ensued or even almost ensued, then there’s not as much point in making it such a serious crime…

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions  

Burglary has been treated as a very serious crime for centuries to create a strong disincentive for criminals to break into people’s homes and put them in danger, and to punish severely people who do that. If you only treated burglary seriously if the residents were actually harmed, then there would be no such disincentive.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

If you only treated burglary seriously if the residents were actually harmed

Nah, not what I’m suggesting. I’m suggesting if you can prove there was no chance of it leading to violence (like say, them being seen in the house, talking to the guy, and then leaving with no attempt to commit a violent act), then maybe it’s not appropriate to punish it under the logic “it could lead to violence”.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, statutes are written as rules generally applicable to all persons who engage in certain conduct. The legislature could carve could specific exceptions, like the one you suggest, but then it can become very difficult to apply. Moreover, I don’t see how anyone could prove there is no chance of violence. Here, for example, even though the players talked to one resident without incident, that doesn’t mean that they could not have become violent with someone else in the house, or with that resident if he had caught them in the act, leaving them no means of easy escape. The point of the burglary law is that it is inherently dangerous to enter another person’s home for the purpose of committing a crime there. The situation is always unpredictable, and violence is always possible.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well it would be on the defendants to prove there was no intention and chance of violence, of course, which as you point out, is probably very difficult, meaning it’d only apply in situations where there definitely isn’t a chance of violence!

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

When the Pac-10 expands

Lane County Jail will have one of the dominant teams. Mean Machine FTW!

"I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."- Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti

"What do I want you to do? What are you doing in the National League?"- John McGraw

"117 elements, and still no Stanfurdium"- carp (paraphrased)

by natteringnabob on Mar 17, 2010 7:10 AM PDT reply actions  

Giving Masoli a whole season off COULD be better for Oregon football than giving him 10 games off. Masoli still has a redshirt season that he can burn giving him the whole 2011 season to play instead of 3 games in 2010 should he stay at Oregon and not transfer in a small school football program.

by calas on Mar 17, 2010 7:12 AM PDT reply actions  

Masoli will never start for Oregon again

Darron Thomas will win the QB job, and he will not give it back.

--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog

by David Piper on Mar 17, 2010 8:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Can you tell us more about Darron Thomas? Cal fans probably do not know a lot about him.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 8:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

The Darron Thomas file

Darron Thomas was a 2007 commit, a 4* dual threat QB out of Aldine, TX. I have had a man-crush on him pretty much from the moment I knew the Ducks were recruiting him. He’ll enter the season as a redshirt sophomore, and the QB competition will be between he and senior Nate Costa.

Thomas is much more similar to Dennis Dixon than he is to Jeremiah Masoli. At 6’4", he has the size you would expect of a prototypical QB. He’s got speed similar to Dixon, and quite an arm. His only meaningful action thus far in his career was in the 2008 Boise State game in Eugene, passing for well over 200 yards and three touchdowns in the fourth quarter to almost lead the Ducks back from a huge deficit (granted, much of this was against a soft zone prevent as BSU had a big lead), that showed much potential.

Presumbly, an Oregon offense under Darron Thomas would look more similar to Dennis Dixon’s Ducks than Jeremiah Masoli’s Ducks. The zone-read would still be a staple, though not nearly as prevalent, and the passing game would be opened up quite a bit more.

Of course, Costa winning the job would throw a wrench in all of this. But Thomas has more physical tools than anyone in the program—Masoli included.

--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog

by David Piper on Mar 17, 2010 8:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

To add to what Dave just said...

Where Oregon fans are really looking forward to Thomas is the passing game. One thing Oregon has lacked with Masoli at the helm is a downfield passing game. Masoli simply did not throw consistently down the field, nor could he easily see the middle of the field due to his height.

Thomas has a cannon for an arm, and is tall. I’m really looking forward to how the passing game will develop with a QB that can throw the ball down the field. With Dixon at the helm, the Oregon offense was almost unstoppable because Oregon could stretch you horizontally as well as vertically (see Michigan game from 2007).

Obviously, in the Oregon offense, quick decision making will be key, so we’ll have to see how Thomas develops in that regard.

But I think that the Rose Bowl definitely exposed a few things about the Oregon offense. Few defenses could exploit it, but Masoli’s passing ability seriously hurt them in 3rd down situations. With Dixon at the helm, the Oregon offense converted at over 42%. That dropped the last two years to a paltry 35% last season. Thomas has the talent to make the offense much better than it was. We’ll just have to see if he can capitalize on that talent.

--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog

by jtlight on Mar 17, 2010 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

nice spin. Cal fans were also stoked when Riley replaced Longshore as the starter because Riley had one amazing game in the Armed Forces Bowl.

Thomas may very well end up being a better QB than Masoli, but not by next year.

by ryandrew on Mar 17, 2010 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

There are definitely question marks for Thomas. I think jtlight was painting a best-case scenario.

He used a lot of "could"s and “we’ll have to see”s in there.

Also, Thomas has a few months of more time within the program than Masoli does. They wanted to redshirt him his first year on campus, and that went south when we had injuries and Harper could barely throw to the other team, and had no chance of throwing to his own.

Thomas was one of the most improved player in fall camp. We all see and know the possible potential of him. We don’t know if that potential will result in wins or not yet.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think in general, the suspensions were about right, though I’m with Ted Miller and Hydro on thinking that one game is a little light for James. Three games (or even two, as I believe Oregon’s first and third games are relative cakewalks, while the second is at Tennessee) would have helped combat the perception that Kelly was still a little more worried about winning games than delivering the proper punishment…though as a whole, you can’t get much more serious than suspending your star quarterback for the season short of kicking him off the completely.

All of which is to say that I think Kelly handled this well, though James could have stood to get another game or two.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 7:18 AM PDT reply actions  

Agreed.

This rational take from an opposing fanbase is a breath of fresh air. Both of you guys did a great job with this analysis!

This off-season officially sucks for SEVEN(!!!!!!!) reasons and counting...

by CaDuck on Mar 17, 2010 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions  

Burglary is usually defined as entry of a dwelling with intent to commit a felony

Theft is the actual felony.

It’s rather rare that burglary would ever be the only crime you could charge someone with. In practice it’s more like a sentencing aggravator for committing crimes in someone’s house, which is logical enough.

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Mar 17, 2010 8:28 AM PDT reply actions  

The common law definition of burglary (and the modern statutory definitions) evolved into the entry of a dwelling with intent to commit a theft or felony therein. Depending on what is stolen, solely theft might not be a felony.

At old common law, the entry into the dwelling needed to be at night.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think in this situation, they were looking at ways to lighten up Masoli’s sentence. The Oregon sentencing laws appear to provide this loophole to turn a felony into a misdemeanor. Perhaps if they charged him with 2 felonies, they couldn’t wave their magic(k) wand to turn them into only a single misdemeanor.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t know if “loophole” is the correct term. It appears to be just prosecutorial discretion. Masoli was fortunate that the DA thought it appropriate to exercise it in that situation.

I was originally surprised that Masoli pleaded to a “burglary” offense because it was my understanding that burglary was a felony. The plea deal only made sense after seeing the felony converted to misdemeanor provision.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think the average person would view it as a “loophole” to magically make a felony disappear! I appreciate the fact that prosecutors should have discretion (and I think we have at least one reader who works as a ADA and might be able to lend some insight), but I’m not sure what other people’s views are.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

Here’s a question for you legal types… Does this burglary go on Masoli’s record as a felony?

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

No

Based on what I read above, it should not. The statute says that the conversion to misdemeanor will be reflected in the charging instrument. So he is technically convicted of a misdemeanor.

An experienced Oregon lawyer would have to tell you what the ramifications of that conviction are. For example, some types of misdemeanor convictions could be weighted more heavily if there is a future offense.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

It's a plea bargain

They could have had him plead to lewd conduct with appliances for all the difference it makes… surely there must be some lesser included offense of one of those things that is a misdemeanor…

Shawn Spencer: "I’m receiving a transmission from your husband. Really more of a voicemail, if I'm being honest. A status update. Perhaps a twitter."
Burton Guster: "I believe it’s called a tweet."
Shawn Spencer: "There’s no way I’m saying that."

by PaulThomas on Mar 17, 2010 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions  

True

But it’s not the sort of plea bargain where he pleaded down to a lesser offense. It was charged as a burglary offense and he pled to a burglary offense. But the DA simply exercised his statutorily committed discretion to convert the felony to a misdemeanor. It’s a plea bargain, but not the type where the defendant pleas to a lesser substantive crime.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Lets be honest, tho, it was all part of the plan. It wasnt like they told Masoli “Plea to burglary and then we’ll charge you with a felony” and then were all “PSYCH!”

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

Frankly, I’m surprised no one’s made the joke that if he had gone to USC instead, he’d have made enough there to buy a MacBook Pro.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

C’mon, yellow fever. Why do you have hat on USC like that? We’re trying to have a serious and logical discussion here. Making fun of USC doesn’t belong on this thread…

Yeah, I thought I could pull that off without laughing. Close, but not quite.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

No. Actually, to make Masoli even stupider, Student Athletes are able to checkout MacBooks from the university whenever they want/need.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

Dude. He’d have made enough to get someone to carry the MacBook Pro around and do all the difficult thinking and typing. Come on now.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions  

Oh, absolutely part of the plan

I just find the mechanics of the plea bargain interesting in that he is still technically convicted of a “burglary” offense. Before all this went down, I had assumed any plea deal would have had Masoli plead down to a misdemeanor theft offense.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Rec'd

For a impressive article and the legal analysis. It so weird to go to an opposing team’s page and see logic and clear-headed thoughts. Single tear for humanity?

by SeattleDucks on Mar 17, 2010 9:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Was Blount even charged with a crime?

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions  

No.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

He would have been kicked off the team. The AD made that distinction only a few days before the sentencing.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s interesting that no one thinks the punishments were too harsh, even the ATQ crew.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 9:53 AM PDT reply actions  

Nah. I’m still somewhat on the fence with Masoli. My knee-jerk reaction was that he should have been kicked off the team, and the more rational side of me still isn’t sure that was/is the wrong thing to do.

I dunno…

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions  

For what it's worth

I don’t think throwing Masoli to the sharks is the right answer. It’s an easy out. By suspending Masoli for a year, Kelly achieves two things:

1. The situation is severe enough for Masoli that he’ll have to really think about his actions. Whether or not he gets his job back in 2011 is hard to say, and his college career may well be over if you’re 2010 QB plays lights out.

2. Kelly can work on rehabilitating Masoli. By kicking Masoli off the team, Kelly no longer has to deal with him, and Masoli becomes someone elses problem. IMO, the statement by Kelly is that the buck stops at him, and he’ll fix the problem.

I don’t know, maybe I’m naive, but this is how I see it.

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

I see it as Masoli not really being suspended at all. He is getting a red shirt year, just as if he had an injury. He will not lose a single game of eligibility.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

While true, I also don’t expect to see Masoli ever play down that would have any significance. (Pending injury)

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

Losing a year of playing time is significant

Practice doesn’t replace real game experience; just ask Jeff Tedford :P

If Oregon’s 2010 QB plays well, I don’t see Masoli getting his job back. This would be a set back for Masoli of monumental proportions as it would effect his standing in the draft.

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t imagine Masoli was going to be a hot prospect anyway. He’s the kind of guy who works as a great college system QB, but if the NFL is looking at Tim Tebow as a third round pick or so, Masoli wasn’t going to get drafted to begin with.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 2:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

Still

Masoli can kiss whatever hopes he might’ve had goodbye. On a psychological level, that has to be extremely devastating.

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was a 7th round at best. He wasn’t ever consistent enough. He’d throw great passes, and he’d throw awful passes. He had to move around because he couldn’t see down field (Which was usually where he was the most accurate).

If the option read was big time in the NFL, I think he would have had a chance.

He had a quick, strong release passing, and he was a strong enough runner to make up for any bad reads.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s too bad that so many of these guys don’t see that the real advantage they are getting is the opportunity for a college education that can give them a good life. They can’t, or don’t want to, see that playing pro sports is a long-shot for them, and that they should really be making the most of the educational opportunity. That’s one of the curses of major college sports.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

This was well done.

Thanks.

I have been wondering if these guys should be suspended at all. The criminal justice system will work out the threat and debt to society, why should their club (or job or whatever college football is) extract additional punishment?

I reckon the answer draws from some combination of the following (most of which were identified in the main article, if only by reference):

1. college sports are molders of men and women. Coaches use their discretion to punish and reward players to help them mature into the best person and best athlete they can be.

2. marketing is important to college sports. College programs need to protect the brand, and just like corporations that stumble, need to show contrition and changes in their ways if they want to appeal to the human sentiments which attract people to the sport.

3. recruits are watching. Some recruits (or their families) may like to enter a program with discipline, and like Coach Kelly, one that is focused on helping the individual get his best outcome.

4. teams require trust and discipline. This was explained in the article by the lawyer (who really raised his game for this post – let’s have this guy comment more often.)

The libertarian in me wants to say keep your moral standards off the athletes: sports are about athletes competing and achieving their potential, and fans should appreciate the grace and power and drama but stop looking for role models (if they follow a team for nostalgic reasons that is their prerogative, but that is their own psychological issues). For example, if I was convicted of a crime I think my boss would only care if it impaired my performance or had a negative impact on the company (he would ask me to serve my sentence at night or something.) For the cynics (I’m looking at you Conquest Chronicles!) who see college football unromantically as a business, I suppose to the extent law breaking is bad for the brand players should be punished (see the NFL and gun issues.)

The traditionalist in me says good for Coach Tedford and good for Coach Kelly for putting greater meaning into what could be mere games. (Even if pragmatically it protects their jobs and supports the Program.)

jh

by Jake88 on Mar 17, 2010 9:53 AM PDT reply actions  

For example, if I was convicted of a crime I think my boss would only care if it impaired my performance or had a negative impact on the company (he would ask me to serve my sentence at night or something.)

Now I don’t know exactly what’s expected of me since I’ve never committed any crimes, but I do believe there are potential ramifications in the work place for crimes I commit (depending on the circumstances), as well as a potential opportunity in the future when applying to grad school and/or jobs if I had a criminal record…..

You should also probably get rid of the libertarian in you. He’s out of his mind (at least, depending on how extreme we’re talking about). :)

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would imagine that at most workplaces that have at-will employment agreements with their employees, getting charged and convicted (or even if I made a plea agreement) of a felony would be enough for my boss to fire me. My company would be within its rights to do whatever they wanted, and I find that much more analogous to the situation here – Oregon isn’t obligated to keep Masoli around, and while they don’t have the obligation to suspend him for the year, they’re certainly with their rights to do so.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, under the “adverse impact” theory of employment discrimination, it is unlawful for employers to have a blanket rule that anyone convicted of any crime or even any felony, cannot be hired or must be fired. The courts have held that because such a rule has the effect of screening out large numbers of certain minority groups, it constitutes unlawful discrimination.

The employer must show a business justification for refusing to hire or firing people for convictions. Generally, any violent felony is considered a legitimate reason to refuse to hire or to fire a employee. For non-violent crimes, it tends to depend on the type of crime and type of job. For example, it would be lawful to refuse to hire a person convicted of theft for a job involving handling money, but it might not be lawful to refuse to hire that person as a receptionist. It’s case-by-case.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

I mean, I agree that a blanket rule would be bad news and probably unenforceable, but I’m pretty sure that there’s an unwritten understanding there. I have a feeling while nominally things would be addressed on a case by case basis, if I committed a non-violent felony like…man, I don’t know, grand theft auto, I’d be out of a job, even though that wouldn’t have anything to do with my current job.

Not to mention that it’s awfully hard for people to prove they were the victims of something that’s subject to opinion anyway, like being fit for employment. Though I have read that employers increasingly choose to settle rather than fight discrimination charges in court…

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’d be great if he was stiff arming one of those Lions on the way out!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Where’s the guitar?

Say what you mean, and say it mean. - Clint Ruin

by QuackinAK on Mar 17, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

haha, I get it. Hooray inside greek jokes.

?

by turkey on Mar 17, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

With Nike’s array of uniform options, will they add a striped version this year?

by cal85 on Mar 17, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

That looks remarkably like the SAE house at SC.

My brother’s a Duck, and when he found out that SAEs were involved, he said that Masoli should have been encouraged to take another crack at it, because the SAEs have been assholes for years.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

Totally agree with you on Masoli. And his juvenile offense was armed robbery, in which he was robbing people at the bus stop at the local mall. Seems to me there is little justification for giving this kid a third chance — he just blew his second chance, which was giving him an opportunity in college in the first place.

What I find troubling about the collective punishments is that I think there’s tremendous inconsistency. I just cannot understand how James’s offense was worth one game, but Blount’s, which wasn’t even charged as a crime, was worth eight. (Note: I thought Blount was ridiculously over-punished). To me, Kelly is sending a pretty strong message that he doesn’t really care about violence against women (and believe me, it takes a LOT to get me to say something like that. In general I think we women can pretty much take care of ourselves).

Were I handing out the punishments, I would have suspended Blount for a game, James for three, and Masoli for ever and ever amen.

by Scootie on Mar 17, 2010 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Perhaps you are right re: Blount. Of course, I think he could have easily been charged with battery. He acted outside of the bounds of his sport, no different than Mart McSorley with the Los Angeles Kings years ago. In fact, his actions were even more problematic because the game was over. Blount was completely out-of-control at the time and I do not see how a one-game suspension would be even remotely just.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions  

I think it is not the damage done to the victim, but the damage done to Oregon. Blount punched that shmuck on national TV! If LaMichael James had had his fight with the victim on national TV, he would have been booted off of the team, in my view.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are definitely right that the impact on the University of Oregon should be taken into account. Though, that impact is not being taken into account enough when it comes to Masoli. The guy has been convicted of or plead to two felonies. How is he still a student there?

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions  

Because those felonies aren’t on tv. Years down the road, people who don’t know a thing about Oregon football are going to remember that dude getting Blounted, even if they can’t remember Blount’s name. In a few years, people who don’t follow Oregon football or Pac-10 football won’t have the slightest clue who Masoli was. Simply looking at it from the standpoint of how it reflects on the University of Oregon from the public’s standpoint, what Masoli did doesn’t even compare to what Blount did.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

It’s unclear to me what James was thinking on the way over and I try not to assume these sort of things. Great response, though. Rec’d.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

Obviously I am making a leap with guessing what was in James’ mind. Maybe I should take that out of the equation. I still would think his punishment is too lenient.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

What did James do, anyawys? I’ve only read the recap in this post, which makes it sound not very bad, is there another account that paints a different picture?

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think it’s just that when the original incident happened, before all the facts came out, people went ahead and assumed the worst. Like kicking, fighting, strangling, etc.

Proud to hold season tickets to the only NBA team soon to be owned by a Russian oligarch.

by yellow fever on Mar 17, 2010 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions  

Everything that happened in the James case is, and apparently will forever remain, unclear. The sentencing memo is not necessarily gospel truth. It reflects the best reconstruction of events that a court official could come up with based on the statements of the participants and witnesses. It is very common for victims in domestic violence cases to downplay the actions of the defendant to the police after the fact. It is also possible for the victim to exaggerate to the police. By accepting a plea bargain, James avoided a trial, during which the victim would have been required to give public testimony under oath about exactly what happened. He also avoided giving pubic testimony under oath. (Which he obviously could have avoided by invoking his Fifth Amendment rights — but how bad would that have looked to public opinion?)

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

While the sentencing memo may not be “truth” it does include what are now considered “facts” of the case.

In addition to my concern that James crossed a line no man should cross, I am also concerned that the facts here may be downplayed.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

rec’d for Bushism quote.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:18 PM PDT up reply actions  

This might be a bit controversial but...

… based on your analysis of James’ case I don’t see why he was even charged.

Correct me if I’m wrong but:

- A person entered the James’ residence when the person was not wanted
- Person did not leave when asked so James grabbed person’s arm and pulled said person outside
- Person tried to stop James by grabbing James
- James, being more powerful, forcibly grabs person and moves him or her out until they both cool down.

The only problem here is that said person was a female. Now James is screwed. If it were another guy some folks would be arguing that James had the right to shoot the trespasser.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:30 AM PDT reply actions  

Along those lines,

if James was charged, why wasn’t the woman?

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Mar 17, 2010 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions  

The act does not require both parties to be charged.

the officer shall arrest and take into custody the alleged assailant or potential assailant.

So, he only had to take in James in this instance.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Maybe someone can correct me, but as the victim, don’t you have to press those charges against the would-be-defendant?

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

No. If the police have sufficient evidence of a crime, the DA can charge without the victim having any say in the matter. Often, the police will drop the case if the victim does not want to cooperate, because it is just too hard to prove, and they have other crimes to worry about. But most states have passed laws requiring the DA and police to investigate domestic violence cases and to file charges even if the victim doesn’t want them to — because domestic violence victims are often afraid to press charges or don’t want their husband/boyfriend to go to prison, even if he is beating up on them.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Good to know!

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

And why not? We argue for gender equality on one hand and on the other we treat women differently. What they both did was technically illegal (trespassing for her and apparent “assault” for him) but only he got charged because he was a women. I don’t buy into double standard. It’s utter bullshit.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions  

You are forgetting she was his girlfriend.

Also, it is not bullshit when it comes to putting your hands on a woman. I have no idea how you were raised or how you plan to raise your children, but I am guessing you were taught not to put your hands on a woman and you will teach your children the same.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

I was taught to not put my hands on anyone unless it was for self defense. I make no distinction in this between man or women.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

So, then, it is immaterial whether the accuser was charged. The issue here is LaMichael James, and you have a problem with how he acted. So do the courts, so does Chip Kelly, so does everyone here.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions  

Firstly I do not believe the accuser had to be charged. Secondly while I wouldn’t resort to it I don’t see anything wrong is grabbing someone’s arm in order to remove that person from his personal property since that person is trespassing. My argument is that you and the others are charging him only because the accuser was female. If the accuser was male this wouldn’t even be an event. Double standards FTL

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t speak in acronyms, so you lost me at the end.

I am basing it on the fact that it was his girlfriend and I have very little respect for men that put their hands on women. Sorry if that double standard bothers you.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes the double standard bothers me.

FTL = for the lose.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions  

Royrules, men are physically much stronger than women. Of course, a woman who inflicts physical harm on a man should be punished just as harshly as a man who harms a woman. But a man can inflict far greater physical harm on a woman with his hands than a woman can inflict on a man, and it is very difficult for a woman to defend herself. Therefore, the risk of serious injury is always far greater when a man places his hands on a woman than the other was around. That danger is why it is generally considered worse for a man to become violent with a woman. That’s not a double standard. That is reality.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions  

Not necessarily true

As an asian man, there are a fuck ton of women out there who could be at the living shit out of me.

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I really doubt that. Maybe there are a handful of extremely fit women who might be stronger than you.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

CalBear81, I appreciate the fact that in general men have more physical strength than women ,but you paint a picture as if all women are shrinking violets compared to us brutes. It’s much more nuanced than that.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions  

In case you are being serious, Twist, I am only talking about physical strength. Almost all men are physically stronger than almost all women. Of course a woman can have a very violent personality, while a man can be mild-mannered, in which case the woman might be able to inflict considerable harm on the man. But as a general rule, just about any man who wanted to could beat the hell out of just about any woman.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

And of course weapons change everything, but I’m not talking about people using weapons.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

In other words, a woman can punch the crap out of my face and I can’t do anything in return?

CGB: Preventing the rest of the Cal blogosphere from getting press passes since 2006.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 17, 2010 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

I can only dream . . .

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, my gf has been owning me at the license plate game recently, if that helps.

Also, you have sad dreams.

CGB: Preventing the rest of the Cal blogosphere from getting press passes since 2006.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 17, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am being serious and I do agree that generally men have more physical strength than women. I just have deep reservations about the thought that “there are only a handful of extremely fit women” who could inflict considerable harm on a man.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rec for your example. :)

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

For example, my gf could quite conceivably kick my ass if she were provoked enough. She’s strong.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

She must be standing over you while you type if you’re willing to admit that…

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Haha, she’s not. I’m not saying if we fought each other 10 times, she would win all 10, or even half, but she would very likely win at least a couple of them. I like that she’s strong.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions  

…and I’m secure enough in my masculinity for it not to bother me.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I am not Asian, but many women could crush me, too! If Jayne Appel even looks in my general direction, I could break a bone!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I do think that Jayne Appel and the Furd women’s team could beat the crap out of the Furd men’s team. No question.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

It is reality. It also appears that in this case, the girlfriend went in search of trouble. I don’t countenance beating anyone up, but I do recommend remembering the guideline “don’t start nothing, won’t be nothing.”

It’s sad that I’m going to have to teach my daughters to be leery of men, but I hope to also be able to teach them not to take advantage of social and legal biases.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Do you really think going over to her boyfriend’s house to find out why another woman appeared to be staying there was “searching for trouble”? Wouldn’t it be kind of weird if she didn’t?

by Scootie on Mar 17, 2010 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Going to the house was a normal enough reaction I suppose, but deciding to hang around and get in an ongoing scuffle with a boyfriend who is apparently a shitheel but also a division 1 football player is just stupid. If there’s no prior record of physical abuse by James, then I’m not wholly sympathetic about the plight of his girlfriend when she 1) hung around waiting to confront him and 2) didn’t sustain any particular injury.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions  

My argument is that you and the others are charging him only because the accuser was female.

This is inaccurate. He was charged initially because Oregon law required it. He was later charged with only 1 of the initial charges for, I presume the following reasons:

1. It is embarrassing to charge people and then drop everything.
2. His conduct was “harassment” at the very least. If the accuser was male, James STILL would have been guilty of, at least, harassment. He also would have been charged to avoid complaints of “special treatment.”

Your argument is not really about the charging of James. It is about the LACK of charging with the victim. The victim’s conduct was also probably harassment. However, pursuant to the statute, there was no accusation at the time, so no need for arrest.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions  

Actually, about the victim alleging anything

The court memo says that James’ girlfriend reported to the police reluctantly, only after James told her that the police had gotten involved; it didn’t seem like she wanted to press charges at all. What exactly would’ve happened in order for James to have deal with this problem in court? Did the victim end up pressing charges despite her reluctance?

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Did the victim end up pressing charges despite her reluctance?

Whether she did or not, a victim “pressing charges” is not required for the state to bring criminal charges against an accused. And in domestic violence cases particularly, I’ve read / heard from law practitioners in this field that DAs don’t necessarily look to whether the alleged victim “pressed charges” as a guiding factor in whether to prosecute. (The most famous case I can think of in that realm is the Warren Moon case years and years ago, where the prosecutor pursued it against the wishes of Mrs. Moon, the victim. Warren Moon was ultimately acquitted, I should point out.)

In some instances, DAs see a psychological control issue at play that causes some victims to refuse to press charges. Just pointing this out as a general matter —I am not saying that was an issue in James’ case.

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 17, 2010 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Pardon my ignorance

All I know about this process is what I glean from police procedurals!

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

I like this post

It’s too easy to generalize all the events that occurred between LMJ and his girlfriend. But, I think most people have been taking issue with LMJ grabbing his gf’s collar and pushing her against his car, as stated in the court memo.

by BleedinBlue on Mar 17, 2010 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think this is right, it is not merely about putting his hands on her. He grabbed her arm THEN he physically moved her, grabbing her collar and pushing her against a car. I really cannot believe this is even a debate here.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, I for one would appreciate language that is more clear what you’re objecting to! Objecting to him grabbing her collar and pushing her against a car seems a lot more reasonable than a vague statement like “he put his hands on her”! :)

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, first, yes, I think it is wrong to grab your girlfriend, or any woman for that matter unless she is coming to beat your ass, and move her. Second, the details here make it sound even worse. Third, while I generalized by saying “putting your hands on a woman” I do not beleive that changes the point I was trying to make.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, first, yes, I think it is wrong to grab your girlfriend, or any woman for that matter unless she is coming to beat your ass, and move her.

Eh, I dunno. Depends on the situation. I go back to my original couple of questions – are you physically harming her? Are you making her feel intimidated or threatened? I could see a plausible scenario where you grab her in frustration but obviously aren’t going to do anything inappropriate.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

This is my issue somewhat. If LMJ had punched her or choked her as was initially suggested then I wouldn’t be arguing this even if the punishment was higher than if he had done that against a man. He pulled a person out of his own private property when she was trespassing (doesn’t matter that she was his GF). Doesn’t the castle law apply in this case anyway?

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

How people are raised and how we make our laws are two different things.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah but...

1. The girl didn’t actually go in James’ apt., she was just outside the door.

2. It’s girl vs. guy here, that means if there is fault on both sides the guy is going to get in more trouble and usually go to jail.

"No one ever rises to low expectations." - Chip Kelly Head Coach at the Univ. of Oregon.

by SouthOfTheBorderDuck on Mar 17, 2010 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

1) As I mentioned I didn’t read too carefully so if this is the case then ok I can see this a bit better. But still you can’t deny the double standard

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions  

It’s not necessarily guy v. girl. It’s more alleged accuser versus not alleged accuser. The girl was alleging, I don’t believe James was. The cop has to arrest James under Oregon law. Period.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes I’m talking about the charging after the arrest. I do not believe he should’ve been charged.

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

As I stated in my analysis, pursuant to Oregon’s Family Abuse Prevention Act, they had to charge James. They can modify the charges later as they did.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

True I’m not disagreeing with that (and even I think the Act is ok as is because domestic abuse is prevalent) but why did they not drop all charges?

In other words, Go Bears!

by royrules22 on Mar 17, 2010 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I am not a criminal attorney, but under my reading of the harassment statute, he was guilty of harassment. She might have been, too.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions  

He was guilty of a number of things as far as I can tell, including harassment. The debate here is about LaMichael James. I could care less how the accuser was treated or whether she should have been charged. The question is whether James was punished enough or whether he should be punished at all.

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions  

Why do you not care if the other party also committed a crime? Do you think that certain criminals should go unpunished?

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yup. With all technicalities considered, she probably could have been arrested with harassment charges as well.

However, no charges were ever pressed against her. James accepted responsibility for his actions and he admitted that he was wrong, and at no point put any fault against her.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

She never entered his residence. She was on the front porch.

by Scootie on Mar 17, 2010 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions  

Thanks for the thoughtful post

Nice to see someone take the time to find out what happened and then do a thorough analysis.

You Cal guys always were kinda smart though…

"No one ever rises to low expectations." - Chip Kelly Head Coach at the Univ. of Oregon.

by SouthOfTheBorderDuck on Mar 17, 2010 10:33 AM PDT reply actions  

As I wrote earlier,

This was a very good analysis of the vents, based off of facts and not emotions (cough, cough Huskies, cough cough Beavers). Great work Twist and Hydro.

This off-season officially sucks for SEVEN(!!!!!!!) reasons and counting...

by CaDuck on Mar 17, 2010 11:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Blount should have been out...

Make an example out of him for embarrassing the program like that and maybe these other knuckleheads take notice and clean up their act. That being said, make an example out of Masoli now. Instead, I’ll look forward to hearing how stellar his rehabilitation plan is going and what a model citizen he is, so that we can see him back by UO’s bowl.

"He's so fast, he can turn off the lights and be in bed before it gets dark!" -- Lee Corso on Jahvid Best in NCAA 10.

by dirt on Mar 17, 2010 11:42 AM PDT reply actions  

Once again, I want to "bro-mance" Twist!

Fuckin’-Z CGB! You guys are the ’ISH! This post was, by far, the best freaking commentary on “As the Chip Falls” (Masoli, James, Blount, Chip Kelly brouhaha).

I voted, Coach Kelly did the correct thing in doling out Duck-player punishment. I signed up for ATQ last week JUST to let them know how I felt too! It’s been a heinous off-season for Coach Kelly and the Ducks-faithful- but. . . .not the end of the world.

I’m rec-cing the SHIT OUTTA this post!

(Hydro, keep your fists on your johnson! Twist is my bitch. How’s the wife, Twist? She still making you do house chores at 10 pm?)

"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}

by BixBeiderbecke on Mar 17, 2010 1:12 PM PDT reply actions  

They aren’t house chores, she explains to me. They are opportunities to prove my love and uphold my wedding vows, she explains to me.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmmmmm?

So, what do YOU make HER do to prove her love and uphold her wedding vows?

(this better be good! as in, something involving a Stephen Jackson mask; a name tag reading “I’m Pressure”, or whatnot? Napoleon Dynamite-wig will do, too? spill it out Twist, and make it SCANDALOUS already! )

"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}

by BixBeiderbecke on Mar 17, 2010 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Translator please?

It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.

by BeastMode on Mar 17, 2010 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions  

Crap, I’d make jokes but this isn’t the DBD….

?

by turkey on Mar 17, 2010 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

MAXIMUMPUNTEN

CGB: Preventing the rest of the Cal blogosphere from getting press passes since 2006.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 17, 2010 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

He approves of the post and sympathizes with the travails of Chip Kelly.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's my man right here!

I love you too DC, . . . . . .not like I love Twist though.

Fight On! (forgive me CGB)

btw: DC, Chelsea got SPANKED! and by Mourinho, no less! ouch!

"As for being a Raiders fan, I wouldn't wish that fucking shit on anybody." [the venerable OTS at Roll Bama Roll}

by BixBeiderbecke on Mar 17, 2010 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions  

And then John Terry ran over a security guard. When it rains, it pours, etc.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 2:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Another thing that is interesting to me (that in retrospect I should have looked more into in the post itself) is that you could argue very seriously that all 3 of the actions were the WORST of the 3.

Blount – Punched a dude on national TV.
James – Any physical action against a woman is going to be pretty bad in my book
Masoli – Only premeditated one and lied to police and coach.

It’s like a race to the bottom, really.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:33 PM PDT reply actions  

In fairness, you could probably make that argument about pretty much any crime that warrants attention. They’re crimes for a reason!

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, no, I just think there are 3 different aspects to these 3 crimes that stand out. One is the victim, in James’ case. One is the audience, in Blount’s case. And the other is the post-crime actions, in Masoli’s case. Kinda like comparing apples and oranges and bananas, really.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions  

All I’m saying is kiwi’s and strawberry’s could be argued as part of the conversation if they were included.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

My opinion:

Blount wasn’t charged with a crime, but obviously committed one on national television and caused great embarrassment to the university and the program. However, since it was the heat of the moment and he was deliberately provoked, I wouldn’t say it’s unforgivable. In fact, I’d say Kelly probably gave him, if anything, too harsh a punishment in retrospect. I would have suspended him for 6 games, which is half a season.

LMJ was charged with a crime, and it was a misdemeanor, but it wasn’t premeditated, and it was not serious and there were no injuries. Grabbing someone and tackling someone you know because you’re arguing and having a tussle is bad, but it’s not the same as actually hitting another person and landing physical blows that cause damage to that person. If anything, Blount’s punch was probably the worse action, in that he punched someone pretty hard in the face. Still, LMJ was charged with a crime, and he should suffer the consequences. I’d give him at least 6 games, and maybe up to a year.

Masoli I would kick off the team immediately. You can say that Kelly is trying to “rehabilitate” him, but first of all, that’s not Kelly’s job, and secondly you can mentor and keep in touch with him without keeping him on your football team and having him continue to represent your institution. He committed a deliberate, premeditated criminal act, and then lied about it or tried to cover it up. Also, if Embry is kicked off, there’s no reason why Masoli shouldn’t be. That’s completely inconsistent and sends the wrong message to your team, that there’s a double standard and stars get treated differently.

"atomsareenough—cleaning up CGB one day at a time until we finally get that press pass." - Berkelium97

by atomsareenough on Mar 17, 2010 1:42 PM PDT reply actions  

Looking at why some of the other Oregon players got treated (which we decided to keep out for space considerations), it is obvious that stars get treated differently. One player got kicked off the team for an insulting Facebook message!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Jamere Holland was no gift to a football team. He was a malcontent at USC and a malcontent at Oregon.

by DC Trojan on Mar 17, 2010 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

Let’s keep in mind that LMJ’s crime he was actually charged with was just harassment. Not sure if that changes your opinion on anything.

by Missing Barry on Mar 17, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would be curious about the Hydro/Twist analysis about the guy who got kicked off the team for the DUI (I can’t keep track of all the names). How does his crime and punishment fit into the Blount/Masoli/James analysis?

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Oh yeah, and the facebook guy, too — although I heard that he was already on some sort of “final warning” status, which, if true, would make his situation different.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions  

He was. He had been held out of multiple games and didn’t even travel with the team to the Rose Bowl. His facebook outburst was simply the final straw.

--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog

by jtlight on Mar 18, 2010 7:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

He wasn't kicked off...only suspended for the season

Kiki Alonso got a penalty for being stupid enough to be caught Drinking and Driving less than 10 hours after Kelly addressed the media.

by ppilot on Mar 17, 2010 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

What was the penalty?

Do you think Kiko Alonso was celebrating Kelly’s press conference when the DUI happened? How ironic!

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

Doesn’t he still have a “not guilty” plea pending? Unlike Masoli and James who have both pleaded guilty?

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 1:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but with James, I would say he changed his plea because he risked being declared ineligible by the NCAA due to being unable to go to class. For his future, time was not an ally for him to fight the charges.

Masoli – his plea was surprising being that he told the cops and Kelly that he wasn’t anywhere near that frat house. I personally expected him to say not guilty.

its spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-O-B-L-I-G-A-T-E-D-T-O-D-O-I-T"

by JShufelt on Mar 17, 2010 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

I bet he then told Chip Kelly that he had previously misled him and Kelly said that if he fought the charges at all, he was off the team totally.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, the DA may have offered him a one-time only deal: plead guilty now, and we’ll drop the charge to a misdemeanor. That would be a pretty big incentive, if Masoli’s lawyer thought there was sufficient evidence to get a felony conviction.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions  

That would seem to validate you thesis that the punishment should be about harming program, rather than the nature or severity of the crime. He gets a severe punishment because: (1) his timing really, really embarrassed Chip Kelly, which harms the program, and (2) he is also more expendable than the other guys, so his suspension won’t hurt the program as much as the suspension of the other guys. Whether a DUI is as bad as burglary or harassment or punching an opposing player, and even whether he ever gets convicted, is beside the point.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

You could argue that a DUI is much worse than any of the 3 crimes listed, because, unless Blount REALLY packs a punch (!), nobody could potentially die in those 3. But a DUI can be fatal.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions  

Well, as discussed above, burglary is a serious crime precisely because it inherently involves risk to the lives and safety of the persons who are burglarized. And DUI guy has pleaded not guilty, so isn’t his suspension premature? Masoli and James didn’t get suspended until they pleaded guilty.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions  

I don’t think Chip Kelly’s suspension powers are in any way tied to the Court of Law.

CGB's Jimmy Carter

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 17, 2010 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions  

Sigh.

Snobby Chick - Senior Division

by CalBear81 on Mar 17, 2010 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

What about the Food Court of Law?

CGB: Preventing the rest of the Cal blogosphere from getting press passes since 2006.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 17, 2010 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

The Food Court of Slaw?

by sec119 on Mar 17, 2010 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions  

unless Blount REALLY packs a punch (!), nobody could potentially die

Under the circumstances, probably a true statement. But when reading that, I was reminded of this case:

Appellant Benjamin Vanover got into a brief argument with his friend, Timothy Mayo, while the two men stood on a Proctorville street one night in May 1998. The appellant ended the argument by punching Mayo in the mouth. Mayo fell backwards, hit his head on the pavement, and died from a resulting head injury. The appellant was convicted of involuntary manslaughter for causing Mayo’s death by committing a felonious assault. The trial court sentenced him to the maximum term of ten years imprisonment.

State v. Vanover, 1999 Ohio App. LEXIS 2357 (Ohio App. 4th Dist. May 16, 1999)

I am a Vereenian.

by Ohio Bear on Mar 18, 2010 5:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

The California Sports Website that's .....different from all the rest.

GoldenBlogs' FAQ and Community Guidelines

More great SB Nation Blogs

Pac-12 On SBN

Pacific Takes (Pac-12)

Pacifictakes-165x74_medium

NORTH

AddictedToQuack: (Oregon)

UW Dawg Pound: (Washington)

CougCenter: (Washington State)

BuildingTheDam: (Oregon State)

Rule Of Tree: (Stanford)

CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: (Cal)

 

SOUTH

BruinsNation: (UCLA)

ConquestChronicles: (USC)

HouseOfSparky: (ASU)

Arizona Desert Swarm: (Arizona)

TheRalphieReport: (Colorado)

Block U: (Utah)


Marshawnthusiasts!

Bear_small ragnarok

Script_cal_small HydroTech

Cal_football_2005_09_16_roll_07_012_small CBKWit

Cstcst3644_small TwistNHook

1262541127_small yellow fever

Avinash4_small Avinash Kunnath

Jahvidtician

Bear__small norcalnick

Monty_in_cal_gear_small Ohio Bear

Giorgiorope_small Berkelium97

Ajoceywcalhatpic_small Kodiak

Mbc_small ManBearCal

Members Of The Follettariat

Sofele20squarecal_stanford2011_small solarise

Rugby_split_small RugbyVet

The Hit Squad

1129748640_small LeonPowe

Atom_small atomsareenough

Basketball_desktop_small CALumbus Bear

Humpty_dance_1_small Cugel