Cal vs. Oregon Post-Game Thoughts
by HydroTech on Nov 15, 2010 3:00 AM PST
in California Golden Bears Football
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(1) Tavecchio. Football, unlike many sports, is a true team game. It takes great performances from all players, all over of the field, and even away from the ball to win a play, to score, and to win games. So it's very hard to often pin the blame on one player's mistake and say "he lost the game." Nevertheless, after this game, I couldn't help but feel that if Tavecchio had made that field goal (or just not false started himself on the field goal he did make), that Cal would have won the game. The way our defense was playing, and with the added energy and momentum of taking a 16-15 lead against the #1 team in the nation at home ... I just don't think we lose.
But of course, it's not all Tavecchio's fault. Cal had other problem areas too.
(2) Vereen's fumble. Our captain of the team, our hero -- his mistake alone might have cost us the game too. Cal needed to not have a single turnover the entire game. Vereen's fumble gave Oregon a really short field to play with, and ultimately their only offensive touchdown of the game. If Vereen doesn't fumble, Cal maybe drives the field, and takes a 14-8 lead to start the third quarter.
But of course, it's not all Vereen's fault. Cal had other problem areas too.
(3) Mansion's passing. He was 10/28 on the day. That's 35.7%. That's horrible. He did have a few drops from his WRs which wasn't helping him out. However, he did also have some bad throws which weren't helping out his WRs. Again, like against WSU, Mansion seemed to be throwing high on a lot of his passes. Perhaps he was rushing things, shortening up his throwing motion, and getting under the ball a bit too much.
Mansion also surprised us with some *killer* (good) throws too. He had a few slant passes to Jones (Cal WR #1), and Allen (Cal WR #21) that were just MONEY. They were right on target. He also had a great pass to Calvin (Cal WR #11) on an out route, if I remember correctly, along the east sidelines when Cal was driving north that was just SICK. It was a rocket pass right on the money... and Calvin caught it too!
Anyways, for every great Mansion pass, there seemed to be a bad pass too. Obviously, he's going to have to work on his consistency to really be an adequate QB for the next two games and next year, but I think he's showing some promise.
(4) Did you see that rocket arm? I've been watching Cal Football since 2002. I've seen Kyle Boller. I've seen Aaron Rodgers throw. Those guys had rocket arms that produced blazing bullet balls. Longshore wasn't on par. Neither was Riley (although I think some of my fellow Marshawnthusiasts may disagree). But Mansion is not too far behind Boller and Rodgers. Some of those balls he threw tonight were freakin' lasers. It was an impressive show of arm strength. Now if he could just be a little more accurate too...
(5) Cal's two-point conversion play. This one had me scratching my head. A fade pass? Really? That's a bit low-probability, don't you think? I mean, I get it. Marvin Jones is our tall WR who can "go get the ball." I know what Ludwig was thinking. But fade passes in general are fairly low probability. I would have rather seen a run formation playaction pass, or just a run. I'm trying not to speak after-the-fact and with the benefit of hindsight. If I was an offensive coordinator, the fade passes is one of the last plays I would think about running for a two point conversion. Why? I want a play with options. A fade pass only has one option: the fade. I'd prefer a bootleg pass where the QB has the option to pass or keep. I'd prefer a zone read (QB has option to hand off or keep). I'd prefer an outside toss or an outside zone where the RB has his choice of holes to hit. I like options when it comes to two-point conversion plays. You don't want to put all your eggs in one basket (by choosing the fade pass). I just didn't get that play call.
(6) Pretty class-less of the Oregon fans to boo injured Cal players. I know, I know. A lot of teams fake injuries to slow down the Oregon pace and allow for substitutions and water breaks. But the Oregon fans have to give the injured players the benefit of the doubt. Oregon fans shouldn't just instantly assume that the players are faking the injuries.
I'm sure some of the Oregon fans might point to the fact that some of our players who were supposedly injured came back into the game later, or how one of the Cal defenders stood up and seemed fine after the play, only to fall down seconds later, as proof that the Cal players were faking injuries.
That's possible. But how many of us here have played competitive sports before? I have. Have any of us incurred significant injury during those sporting events? I have. I've torn a tendon. For those of us who have received significant injury from these sporting events, what is your natural reaction after sustaining such an injury? I'm sure I'm not alone here when I say: TO GET BACK INTO THE GAME.
A lot of times, players will get injured. They'll need a few plays off to collect themselves and allow themselves to recover, and then put themselves back into the game. This is possibly what happened with some of the Cal players who came out due to injury, but went back in.
Additionally, even when injured, a lot of players will try to play through the injury because they want to stay in the game. I know I did when I tore my tendon. I tried to stay in the game. I stayed in for another play, and when I realized I couldn't run any more, I took myself out. So that is perhaps what happened with the Cal player (I forgot who) who initially stood up, then fell down a few seconds later. He might have known he was injured, tried to get up to play through it and the next play, but then realized he couldn't keep himself up and thus fell down.
I guess a lot of Oregon fans haven't played sports before. Because this insight I'm providing here, isn't really insight at all. Anyone who has played competitive sports can easily imagine the aforementioned scenarios, or perhaps even experienced one those scenarios themselves.
Anyways, I think the booing is a real show of lack of class by the Oregon fans who did boo.
(7) There were some positives to this game. Now that I've hit on some of the negatives, I'll try and hit on some of the positives. Sunshine pumper haters and negabears can stop reading now.
(8) Dude, we just help Oregon's offense to one offensive touchdown on the day. And that was due to a short field from a turnover. Can the Cal defense get a little R-E-S-P-E-C-T? The Cal defense played LIGHTS OUT. It was unbelievable. I'll admit, I was expecting us to give up points, and give up points often. I was thoroughly surprised.
Even USC's head coach Lane Kiffen couldn't believe the score when he heard Cal only gave up one offensive touchdown to Oregon:
Lane Kiffin's eyes nearly popped out of his head when heard the Oregon score. "Are you sure Cal didn't have 15 guys on the field?"
So how did Cal do it?
On Friday, prior to this game, in a gmail chat with one of my friends, I said this:
3:01 PM me: if i were playing Oregon, I'd pretty much just play Man freeme: Man free or Cover Zerome: If doing cover zero, I'd have one DB per WR, then everyone else is in the boxone on onewith strict instructions to the DBs to not get beat by play fakesso no peekingme: have faith that the other guys will stop the runlet the guys in the box stop the runit's basically just 11 on 11 footballcover zero, or cover oneeveryone has a guyjust win your positional battle
Basically, in my incoherent shorthand gchat talk, I'm saying to beat Oregon you just play either Man Free (Cover One), or Cover Zero. The CBs have to play on islands with little to no safety help, because the safety will be in the box assigned to his respective man. The CBs have strict instructions to not peek at the play immediately after the snap to see if it's a run play and help out with run support because Oregon can playfake and beat you deep. Thus, the CBs/DBs just have to play their WRs who are taking them down the field, and have faith that the rest of the defenders in the box can stop the run themselves.
What did Cal do to stop Oregon? Cal safety Conte (Cal DB #7) explains in this rivals.com article:
"All the rest of the Pac-10 can take notes right now," Conte said. "We played zero-coverage the whole game. I was responsible for the quarterback. They do all that zone-read stuff, and my sole job was to be on the quarterback, and then, if I can help out late on pass, then help out. Everybody just accounted for a man. That was the key to success, right there." (emphasis mine)
Basically, Conte is saying Cal played Cover Zero (aka zero-coverage) the entire game, which is a man defense where there is absolutely no safety help in the secondary. The safeties are instead playing their own assignments within the box. Meaning the CBs are playing on islands -- by themselves and 1 on 1. Every defender had his own guy he was assigned to defend, hence the 11 on 11 football ("everyone just accounted for a man"). There was no doubling up on offensive players. There was no "reading" offensive players (which is what Gregory's defenses did). Thus, when Oregon runs its zone read, no Cal defenders read the play to see who gets the ball. The defender assigned to the QB just immediately goes for the QB. The defender assigned to the RB immediately goes for the RB. Having this strict assignment defense, rather than a read and react defense, quickens the defense. They just go. Get your guy, and have faith that your teammates will get their guy.
It's not hard to scheme against Oregon's offense, it just takes execution. And that's what Cal's defense did so well for 90% of the game. They executed extremely well. The defensive line was getting FANTASTIC push against the Oregon offensive line. Cal defenders were doing a great job solo tackling. Cal defenders were playing tight coverage on the WRs down the field (except for the TD pass and two other passes downfield where the Oregon QB missed open WRs).
Playing Nevada earlier this year helped prepare the Cal defense for Oregon. The concepts run by Nevada and Oregon are similar. Nevada just runs down-hill (north/south) more, and Oregon runs laterally (east/west) more. But they basically just run zone reads and options. I have little doubt, that if Cal had to play Nevada again this year (perhaps for a bowl game?), that the Cal defense would be extremely prepared and we could expect a similar shut-down performance of their offense by the Cal defense.
(9) The energy in Memorial was amazing and crazy. I haven't felt that kind of energy in the stadium since the 2006 Cal/Oregon game -- a game which I think had even more energy than the 2007 Cal/Tennessee game too. Prior to the game, Tedford came over to the student section to briefly rally the students. The students, were loud and persistent the entire game. They never tired out or stopped with the noise. The Cal players on the sidelines were really getting into the game too. They'd jump up and down, motion to the crowd to be louder, and emphatically cheered on their teammates. You could just feel it in the stadium, that and upset was brewing (until Tavecchio missed the field goal). Despite the loss, this was one of the most electric atmospheres I've felt at Memorial stadium during the Tedford era. This game is definitely up there with the 2002 Big Game, 2003 Cal/USC game, and 2006 Cal/Oregon game.
(10) I'm much more confident going into Big Game. If the Cal defense, and the Cal crowd can produce the same results next week against the top-ten ranked Stanfurd, then I wouldn't be wholly surprised if we upset Furd. We'll need our offense to score more than one touchdown though, but I'm liking our chances against Stanfurd.
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FIRST!
Its going to be twice as loud this week when we play spoiler!
Say Good Night, Gracie
The sad fact is that the Bears didn’t lose this; not even the FG kicker. Tedford lost it, just as he has on so many other occasions. He has consistently been outcoached by almost every other in the PacX and a number from elsewhere, as well and Saturday was no exception. Even sadder is that it ain’t over yet because with JT at the helm, the next 2 games are imminently losable.
Until the well-heeled alumni realize this and stop enabling him, Tedford’s losing ways will will continue to be the Bears’ losing ways.
I guess my favorite part of “Tedford’s losing ways” is all those losing seasons of his!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 15, 2010 7:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Just wondering
DId Jeff Tedford not autograph your underwear, or maybe fail to friend you on Facebook or something? You’ve got some serious and delusional bitterness going on here about him, and it may do you some good to seek professional help.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
by SoCal Oski on Nov 15, 2010 7:30 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Jeff Tedford, losing games by coming up with gameplans that hold the highest scoring offense in the country to one TD! Seriously, what an idiot!
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
Was that really Tedfords gameplan that held the highest scoring offense in the country
to one TD though?
I would argue it was Clancys gameplan. I am not sure but I would guess Tedford has little to do wtih the defensive game plan and leaves that up to his DC.
You can either have it one way or another. Tedford is ultimately responsible for the defense, or he isn’t. So either he doesn’t get credit for the successes but doesn’t get blame for the failures, or he gets credit for the successes and blame for the failures. The choice is yours…
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 6:51 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Good Morning, Jack!
You just made a bunch of assertions with no examples or anything to back up what you’re saying. I wouldn’t mind hearing you out, if you actually laid out an argument.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
u r rong
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:30 AM PST up reply actions
I’m am Jack’s pessimism.
In other words, Go Bears!
by royrules22 on Nov 15, 2010 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I am Jack’s ruptured colon.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Fight Club FTW!
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t mind the fade call . . . .under different circumstances. Rodgers to MacArthur. Longshore to Hawkins. Barr to Caldwell or Dawkins. Pawlawski to Dawkins. Heck, even Riley to Jones. But you need a QB and WR to be in sync and know exactly what each other is going to do. And that only comes with a summer of reps.
I hate the fade call. It’s a lot like calling iso’s in basketball – simply put, it’s a low percentage play, and gets called wayyyyyyyyy more often than it should based on how successful it is (or in better words, how successful it is not)….
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
agreed, I’d have liked a PA roll out with one or two TE options and either Jones or KA21 crossing, but se la vie
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
thanks… I took spanish, so french is not my four tay ;)
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:03 AM PST up reply actions
Meh.
I was hoping they’d go for an run straight up the middle in a power set or wild cat. Vereen wasn’t getting stopped and there was no reason to believe he would be on that play.
They’d figured out by then that our passing game was nonexistent, and they were stacking the box bigtime. I don’t think Vereen up the gut was going to be successful.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed
That’s why a play-action call could’ve worked really well. I liked that one misdirection play against Stanfurd in 2008 where the entire offense lined up like it was a run up the gut, Riley faked the run and sold a pass to the right and Cameron Morrah slipped out to the left and Riley hit him in the “O” of Golden Bears in the south end zone. In the north end zone, it’d probably be in the “A” of California.
by daveman on Nov 15, 2010 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought Mansion had a running lane. I would’ve like to at least see a run option for him.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
I was thinking run the play that Miller scored the TD on in the Emerald Bowl
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:04 AM PST up reply actions
i'm having a faster recovery from this one
than say……the fall from No. 2 Oregon State game when Riley muffed the down.
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.
by ak_A on Nov 15, 2010 6:14 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, no contest
This one sucks, and was a very disappointing end to a great game, but it doesn’t hurt like some of the other painful losses.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
like the what's his name stepping out of bounds on the way to a sure td
…was that arizona? funny how I black those out as they were vivid enough at the time.
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.
GIORGIOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Inspiring and completing since1997 since2010!
I thank the Giants winning the world series for my fast recovery from this loss. Any other year I’d be pissed well into Wednesday. But this year I’m just like, “oh well, they played hard and almost pulled it out.”
I hope this feeling continues. It makes sports (especially Cal) so much easier to follow.
Oh, and I’ve been saying this for the past few years: Oregon has the most arrogant, spoiled, smug, and classless fans in the Pac 10. Booing an injured player, whether you think he is faking it or not, is par the course for this bunch.
The Bear Will Not Quit
The Bear Will Not Die
This
The Giants winning the series takes the sting out of this loss.
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
2010 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants
The opposite of this
The Giants winning the WS makes this loss all the worse.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
As an A’s fan (and not living in the area any more), while I am generically pleased that the Bay gets to celebrate another World Series win, it really doesn’t affect me one way or another.
I would say it doesn’t sting nearly as much as either the 2007 OSU loss, and it isn’t as depressing as the USC and OSU losses this yera.
As a Bay Area resident, I am generically pleased about the boost to the local economy from a WS appearance by a local team. As a Dodger fan and A’s fan, I’ll take every opportunity to bitch about the damn Giants. :)
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
This form of Dodger-fan-bitching is like music to my ears, by the way.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
It’s fun for me too, in the sense of making the best out of an absolutely shitty situation.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
As I see it, there were three keys that cost us this game – two of which you covered:
1. Poor passing. While watching the game it seemed that only about 50% of Mansion’s throws were catchable, and only 50% of those were actually caught. That observation was obviously wrong, but not by much, as 35% completion isn’t really that much different from 25% (especially when there are only 30 throws). If KA or Jones hold on to some of those passes in the 2nd half we get a first down, the drive continues, and who knows. As it was, it just meant a lot of 3-and-outs.
2. Special Teams. Tavecchio’s epic miss cost us a lead, not the game. As much as you believe his FG gives Cal momentum and possibly seals a win, I believe all it does is fuel Oregon’s nextt drive in which they score – meaning we have to score again. In this case, the missed FG is more or less moot. But even worse than the FG fail was the lack of coverage on the duckies first TD. If coverage is there and the return held to less than 10 yards, Oregon likely doesn’t score in the 1st half (given the way our D was playing).
3. Defense. This is not meant as a criticism on the defense, as they essentially won this game for us. But, that Tavecchio flub came with over 9 minutes to play in the 4th quarter. And we never got the ball back. During that drive, Oregon was in several 3rd and double-digits, and 4th and 3 to 6 yard situations, and they converted. Nine minutes. After the FG miss I thought to myself that the D would hold the ducks and we’d get the ball back and win this game. I was sure of it. But that drive was pretty legendary, and we lost the game. Again, this isn’t blaming the defense, since they did their job – but one more stop and I honestly believe we win.
Overall I can’t even begin to describe how proud I am of the effort of the team. Despite the score, we beat those guys like an angry baker pounding bread dough. By all measurements, Oregon didn’t score an offensive TD (yes, their 2nd came on offense, but not off a drive), and looked completely befuddled. Sometimes the better team doesn’t win. See Cal – USC 2004.
And as an aside, I am really starting to get tired of seeing the dirty play by Oregon. Year after year we see cheap shots and headhunting by those guys, and it’s pretty clear that in most cases it is actually coached. And after watching a few of Kelly’s post-game chats, it’s also clear that this lack of class starts with him. Hell, even Harblow will give props to an opposing team, but Kelly just comes off as a real prick. And it shows in the actions of his players.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
by SoCal Oski on Nov 15, 2010 7:44 AM PST reply actions 2 recs
Man, I loved your analysis! Truly did. Right down to the last paragraph.
I know that you are disappointed. And, let’s not go where you went at the end.
Your guys just beat the shit out of our guys every place but the scoreboard. We did not play our best game and your defense frustrated our offense. We did some things out of that frustration which will be cleaned up. And, you went too far. I’ve watched hundreds of practices and Kelly not only does not teach/coach bullshit behaviors, he takes care to ensure that they won’t happen again (you may have heard about his ’Monday Night Lights.)
I hope that your team (including you and the rest of the CGB fans) has gotten their balls out of their wall lockers (that’s an Airborne term) and kicks the ever-livin’ shit out of every foe they face the remainder of the season and post season.
You may not think that we have the ‘class’ that you do. I urge you to reconsider the nature of that last paragraph with regards to class and/or truth.
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
I get your defense of your team, but I didn’t reach my conclusion about the type of play the ducks display in a vaccum. Time after time, year after year, whenever Cal and Oregon play I have seen some chippy (if not outright cheap) shots by duck players. The recent list has been posted somewhere else here, but a brief summary is:
2010: the dirty pick by your WR
2009: Riley getting head-hunted
2008: Longshore getting his leg targeted
2007: Dickson taking a cheap shot
and that’s just in games against Cal. If something like that happens once it’s an aberration. If it happens twice it’s a coincidence. Any more and it becomes a pattern.
The sad thing is your team is just too good to need to resort to that kind of thing, It’s a poor form of intimidation, lack of respect, and poor sportsmanship.and it does affect how other teams and fans relate to you guys. And it’s pretty clear it’s not just sour grapes by Cal fans — other fanbases have pointed the same thing out as well. Sure, it’s convenient and a salve to your ego to blame it on jealousy for your success, but that just isn’t true.
Perhaps me calling that kind of play dirty is too harsh. Maybe “over aggressive” is more appropriate. However, regardless of name you use to call a rose, it can still stink as bad.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
by SoCal Oski on Nov 15, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Not taking a side one way or another, but don’t forget the Duck player stepping onto the back of the Cal player during Desean’s punt return. That’s actually one of the first plays that come to my mind.
www.bearswithfangs.com
by bearswithfangs on Nov 15, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
yep
that was a fun one. You know what most of these plays have in common? The officials didn’t throw a flag. Awesome.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
In that case
they threw the flag and then picked it up. Awesome. I think maybe the head official and Bellotti have some friends.
Well, you've got the laundry list and it means a lot to you so I'm sorry that I disturbed your internal chaos.
And I am sure that some Duck fans have a list against the Bears, too. And I don’t want to go there, either. You do, it’s obvious and I don’t need your Anger (unless you’re willing to give up your most excellent punter) so, I will leave you with it.
Enjoy your college football experience.
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
by Famous Duck on Nov 15, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
To that I would add
During this game alone:
-Uncalled roughing the passer in which not only was contact made on Mansion but he was violently thrown to the ground. No one saw it because he threw a long pass, but our OL had his back and they had to be restrained by a classy Mansion before the ref threw a flag on us.
-A cheap shot in which an Oregon O-Lineman tomahawk chopped one of our DEs from behind RIGHT ON THE BACK OF THE FUCKING NECK. This was a power run right on Oregon’s last drive.
-MULTIPLE cheap shots from Oregon’s D-Line men after the play (mostly ticky tacky stuff but it adds up).
I have to say I was really rooting for the ducks this season (save this past Saturday of course), but after watching this horrific display of lack of class I’m almost ready to kick the Oregon Ducks out of the Pac-12. Only team I’ve seen who is worse is USC. That is really some bad company my feathered friends. Clean your shit up, this is the Pac-12 not the SEC where banditry, poor sportsmanship, and general asshole-ness is the norm.
That goes for the fans as well.
Although I would like to call out that moron Cal fan who crossed two sections looking to get his ass kicked. Don’t stoop to that please. You make us all look bad.
Say it like Ron Burgandy signing off: "Stay Classy, Bears!"
by PlayClassyBears on Nov 15, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
This is an ancient thing!
1979 – Daryl Skaugstad…
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is
research."
Don’t boo our injured players next time and we’ll consider it.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:33 AM PST up reply actions
2. Special Teams. Tavecchio’s epic miss cost us a lead, not the game. As much as you believe his FG gives Cal momentum and possibly seals a win, I believe all it does is fuel Oregon’s nextt drive in which they score – meaning we have to score again. In this case, the missed FG is more or less moot. But even worse than the FG fail was the lack of coverage on the duckies first TD. If coverage is there and the return held to less than 10 yards, Oregon likely doesn’t score in the 1st half (given the way our D was playing).
I disagree with this. I think Tavecchio hits that FG and we probably win. Instead of 17/18 running plays, Oregon plays with a bit more urgency to score, maybe tries a few more passes… and we’d been pretty much shutting down their passing game all night. I think if we had a lead, the stadium would be going insane, and our players would be playing with their hair on fire. I think we’d have gotten the stop(s) we needed.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
I tend to look at momentum as non-existant – not so much because I don’t believe in human emtions, but rather because I don’t think we can predict what the momentum “would have been” with even a small amount of accuracy. So I look at events like that (in terms of predicting hypothetical events of “what would have happened”) as momentum neutral, and the relevant information I think is: would starting their drive by receiving a kickoff put them in a more or less favorable position on offense? Do you really think their playcalling would have changed that much and it would have made that much of a difference? I mean, given their lack of success earlier in the game and their success offensively in the 4th Q, it seems to me their playcalling was probably pretty close to optimal – so not much reason to change it for different circumstances, right?
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I said very little about “momentum”. I do think that the crowd wouldn’t have been deflated by the FG miss and would maybe have made it a bit harder if we had the lead, and I think it’s possible the team would also have been a bit more amped as a result, but that’s neither here nor there.
But I do think the game situation would have been different. I think their playcalling would have been slightly different, yes. With the lead, Oregon didn’t even need to score; all they needed to do was kill clock. I don’t think it’s conclusive either way, but I do think it’s reasonable to believe that they’d have had similar field position, that they would have called more passing plays because they would’ve had more urgency to score, and that we would have had a better chance at stopping them. It’s not definitive, but I can see absolutely NO reason to believe that things would have proceeded exactly the same as they did in a different situation.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Here’s a small example; a kickoff could’ve bled 15 seconds off the clock. Maybe a couple of players who also are on ST could’ve been slightly more winded and gotten beaten on a play. I mean, it just seems ridiculous to think that in a different set of circumstances that things would have gone EXACTLY the same way.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
it just seems ridiculous to think that in a different set of circumstances that things would have gone EXACTLY the same way
The assumption isn’t so much that the different set of circumstances would have gone exactly the same way, as much as the mean of the possible outcomes is the same. The probability of getting a single observation in a continuos distribution is 0….so yeah, it’s not that I think it would have played out the same as much as the best guess is the results are in line with the average. That said, if we do expect different playcalling, logically that should change our estimate of the average.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Well, Oregon didn’t score. It’s not certain that they would’ve gotten into FG range and made a FG, and even if they had, they might’ve left enough time on the clock for us to respond… There are all manner of potential “ifs”, and I think that had we made the FG, we would’ve had a better than 50% chance of winning the game.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Your scenario may be correct, but you miss my point. Tavecchio’s missed FG didn’t lose the game for us, because Oregon would have gotten the ball back again and we’d have been in the exact same situation: the defense needing the stop.
In either case (Tavecchio making or missing the FG), if the defense doesn’t stop Oregon, we lose. If the defense does make the stop and then the offense scores, we win regardless. If the offense doesn’t score, then (and only then) would the Tavecchio miss have actually cost us the game.
As it stands, that didn’t cost us the game any more than the missed 2pt conversion, or any number of dropped passes.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
Right. There are many factors. I agree with that. Someone posted a rough blame distribution of something like 30% FG miss, 30% poor offense, 30% poor ST, 10% other, and that’s probably not too far off.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed on all points
Special teams in general didn’t help the effort, what with the punt return and the missed field goal. Also, it’s curious why Marv Jones can make really acrobatic catches with defenders draped on him, but drop otherwise routine throws.
I don’t blame Tavecchio at all. Sure, it’s easy to look at the score and say making that FG instead of missing it and Cal wins. It’s just as easy to say if Oregon hits one of the two FG’s they missed, it’s a moo point.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 8:32 AM PST reply actions 4 recs
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
by Redonkulous Bear on Nov 15, 2010 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
moooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
It’s like a cow’s opinion – it just doesn’t matter.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
I agree, plus who knows what the #1 offense in the nation would have come out with after that field goal.
They were looking like they could score on that last drive before taking a knee… Do I blame T-Vechs a little, of course… But Shane’s fumble and dropped passes on 3rd downs are equally frustrating… Either way we played the best team in the nation like no one else has and I’m damn proud of the Bears for that
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
I don’t know how much I blame Vereen for his fumble. Sometimes the ball gets poked out and there isn’t much you can do about it. He wasn’t holding the ball improperly or anything. Sometimes the defender just does a good job at poking it loose by hitting it at just the right angle.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Equal blame for everybody!!!! (Save for the Cal defense of course)
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
but
their field goals were from farther away. So it’s not a great comparison
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I hate this kind of dismissal of a point. If you’re going to dismiss my point, the least you can do is give som evidence that Cal’s chances of making one kick from closer were significantly higher than Oregon’s chances of making one our of two kicks from farther, especially given that one of Oregon’s FGA’s was from 37 yards (in other words, a high percentage FGA). I suspect the chances of them hitting 1/2 were fairly close to the chances of Cal hitting 1/1. I was going to do the work until Excel made it more difficult than what I wanted to deal with….
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
I’m pretty sure that 29 yard field goals have a much higher rate of success than 37 yarders, but perhaps you are right when you consider making at least 1/2 vs 1/1. I don’t know the odds.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Yeah I was hoping to do some odds but when I import the data, it’s in a 1-1, 1-2 (made-attempts) format, and Excel imports that as a date….soooo…..yeah. Anyone know a quick fix to that?
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
If it’s just a number format issue, you can select your cells and press Ctrl+1. Under the “Number” tab, under “Category”, you can change to “text” or “general” (you might have to re-type your number though because when data is converted to date format in Excel it gets translated to Excel’s internal numeric representation of a date).
If it’s not just a format issue, I’d need more info to help with the issue.
you might have to re-type your number though because when data is converted to date format in Excel it gets translated to Excel’s internal numeric representation of a date
Yep, ultimately this is the problem, and I’m not going to take the time to retype it. I can’t find a shortcut to turn it back into its original form.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Since it’s in 1-1 format, I assume its text. Under “DATA” there is a function that says “Text to Columns”. You can choose where to make the cuts, so cut each character into a column (i.e. make the dash a column too so you can eliminate it).
Nope, the problem is when it comes into Excel, it automatically gets inputted as an Excel date, which means it isn’t in text mode, andi f you try to convert it to text (or numeric), it spits out the number Excel associates with that date. I need to figure out how to stop it from translating it into an Excel date on input.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 6:53 AM PST up reply actions
Already have to paste special as HTML. It doesn’t seem to give me the same paste special menu I had in the previous version of Excel (I’m using 2007).
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 9:53 AM PST up reply actions
What's the status on Hagan & Anthony?
Hope they are both going to be ok
http://twitter.com/solariseCGB
That 2-pt conversion was a “fade”?? I haven’t looked at the tape again, but I thought Mansion though it high, but he threw it hard. It wasn’t a rainbow at ALL like a normal fade. It was like a “go up and get it” throw. Maybe it was a fade route though, and Mansion put absolutely ZERO touch on the ball. Or got rid of the ball late and had to zip it.
It was supposed to be a fade but it was terribly thrown. As soon as the ball left the hand I remember going AH FUCK
In other words, Go Bears!
yep, same here...as soon it left his hand...ack, too too much on a "touch" pass.
alaska A currently residing in northern Idaho.
Good stuff as always!!
100% agreeed on the atmosphere of Memorial. Wasn’t just the student section… I felt like the whole stadium was rockin! Go Bears! I was sitting in the fuddy duddy section and I only got asked to sit down once. (Right after an Oregon 2nd down that they failed to convert, which made it a 3rd down. So I got to say, dude it’s third down. GET UP!)
Fire Starkey. You... complete me.
I got asked not to “jump up and down all game” in section H, we came to an agreement that if he made noise on every third down I wouldn’t jump up and down… he did and I didn’t, it was a good trade
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Even USC’s head coach Lane Kiffen couldn’t believe the score when he heard Cal only gave up one offensive touchdown to Oregon:
Lane Kiffin’s eyes nearly popped out of his head when heard the Oregon score. “Are you sure Cal didn’t have 15 guys on the field?”
Hahahahahah, I hate Kiffy, but he’s usually good for an honest reaction. I can totally imagine him going “WTF?! We bent those guys over and went to town on them. And Oregon did that to us. DOES NOT COMPUTE.”
Oregon Fan Here
Great game guys, that was truly an epic performance by both teams. Thanks for the hospitality at your stadium, and the noise was great, makes the ’Furd games seem THAT much quieter
...GO DOUG...
by Your Favorite Team's Favorite Team on Nov 15, 2010 9:28 AM PST reply actions
I am an Oregon fan and I by no means condone our fans booing when a player from another team goes down. I would prefer our fan base coming up with a different way of showing displeasure when we believe someone is trying to stall the game. However, you are not being honest with yourself if you want to make the claim that those were legitimate injuries or cramps. Don’t you find it interesting that none of your offensive lineman went down with cramps? Or how about that none of our lineman went down with cramps? Right I am sure it is that special liquid we get from Nike. I played plenty of competitive sports but it only takes a set of objective eyes to see that B.S. If you want to say that you played within the rules and tell Duck fans to deal with it I am fine with that, but don’t try to accuse us of never playing competitive sports.
However, you are not being honest with yourself if you want to make the claim that those were legitimate injuries or cramps. Don’t you find it interesting that none of your offensive lineman went down with cramps? Or how about that none of our lineman went down with cramps? Right I am sure it is that special liquid we get from Nike. I played plenty of competitive sports but it only takes a set of objective eyes to see that B.S. I
You don’t have of “objective eyes” either, though. You’re looking at it through Duck-tinted glasses. I don’t think many Cal fans (if any) I’ve seen here are making ANY definitive claims that they were legitimate injuries or that they were fake. It’s hard to be certain either way. With the extremely fast pace of your offense, why is it hard to believe that a beefy defensive lineman might cramp up a bit? I think our players deserve the benefit of the doubt. Regardless, the fact remains that there were only TWO potentially questionable cramps/injuries out of SEVENTY plays on defense, so please feel free to quit griping already.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 9:58 AM PST up reply actions
Don’t you find it interesting that none of your offensive lineman went down with cramps? Or how about that none of our lineman went down with cramps?
This is because our offense only ran about 60 plays during the game, and your offense ran about 85 to 90 plays.
Or how about that none of our lineman went down with cramps?
Because your players are more accustomed to that fast pace, and ours aren’t.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I played plenty of competitive sports
Stealing is not a competitive sport by any measure.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
as someone who is on record as saying some of the cramps may have been exaggerated
there’s a perfectly logical explanation for why it was only our d cramping up. The ducks offense deliberately snaps the ball as fast as possible. There have been many articles written about this strategy, and duck fans have constantly reminded everyone how much better conditioned their team is than everybody else. Other teams, like ours, are not used to this pace, and as a result, our defenders cramp up. Your offensive players don’t, because they have been practicing/playing at that pace since spring 2009. Our offense, of course, goes at a normal pace, so cramping wouldn’t be expected among our offensive players.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not griping at all. I don’t have a problem with teams trying this strategy. I only had a problem with the claim that Oregon fans must not play competitive sports because we sense that teams are trying to stall the game. Don’t get me wrong I thought your defense played a great game and I am generally a fan of Cal. So, your telling me that if I go back and look at other games you played this year that if your defense played as many plays I should expect that you had several instances of D-linman cramping?
No, I’m not telling you that. I’m telling you that there’s no way to know if they were fake or not, and that they deserve the benefit of the doubt, and it is pointless to speculate otherwise.
Besides, even if they were faking a bit, big freaking deal. You guys won. Who cares.
Also, what if it wasn’t 100% fake or genuine either way, but something in between? Maybe the guy honestly felt off and needed to sit for a few plays, but he wouldn’t have been able to sub in or out normally because of how quickly Oregon was snapping the ball? I don’t see why he shouldn’t be able to get out of the game if he needs to.
Really, it’s ridiculous that you Duck fans keep bringing this up like it’s some huge conspiracy when it happened twice out of seventy plays and didn’t affect the outcome. Like I said in another post, it sounds like, “Waaaaah, you guys didn’t lie down and let us steamroll you!”
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Watch tape of our game @Arizona
We had quite a few defensive players go down with cramps, several requiring trainers to come onto the field.
It just doesn’t stand out as much when the offense isn’t trying to snap the ball every 15 seconds.
Cramps?
It sounds like Bear fans are feeling a little crampy and irritable this morning.
Welcome to SBN, whosoever sockpuppet account you are.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
No kidding, you must have skipped over the part where I said that I thought your D played a great game, that I don’t mind if teams use the strategy and and that I wasn’t griping. Just thought it was a bit out of line to blame the Duck fan behavior on their lack of knowledge. Best of luck the rest of the way.
Do you see the difference between you and me?
This is you: Cal players were faking injuries.
This is me: Cal players deserve the benefit of the doubt regarding their injuries and here’s why.
You claim that we’re not being honest with ourselves? Please. You’re not being honest with your self.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
The difference I noticed is you found the reply button….
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
haha rec’d
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s wrong for you to suspect that a couple of the injuries may possibly have been less than 100% legit. However, to be completely convinced of it based on no firm evidence is a slander on Cal players, and to boo people when they legitimately are injured is bush league. That’s what was out of line. Anyway, best of luck to you guys as well. I hope you go to the Rose Bowl or the National Championship and represent the conference well.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
If you read my initial post I specifically said that I wasn’t in support of Duck fans doing this. I only chose to post something because it felt to me like the implication was that Duck fans didn’t know anything about sports or have neer played competitively. You can call us obnoxious and arrogant, but don’t act like we don’t understand that game.
I don’t think I ever said you don’t understand the game. But you certainly don’t seem to understand why injuries may occur, and how a player may not seem to be injured when he really is. Instead, you’re just instantly assuming the Cal players were faking injuries. You attempt to justify your conclusion with interesting observations such as: (1) no Cal offensive linemen cramped up; and (2) no Oregon defensive linemen cramped up.
But what’s wrong with your observations? You seem to miss the fact that Oregon fan approximately 85 offensive plays during the game (upwards of 90 if you count penalty plays), and Cal only ran 60 offensive plays during the game (perhaps around 65 or so if you count penalty plays).
How is this relevant?
Hmm… Cal runs a slower pace offense allowing its players and Oregon players to rest more between plays. That would explain why no Cal offensive linemen cramped up. That would explain why no Oregon defensive players cramped up.
Sorry for using my brain here, but your observations aren’t really that conclusive at all.
Were the Cal players faking injuries? It’s possible, but I’m giving them the benefit of the doubt.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
ooooooooooooooooooooSee this button? ^^^ Click it.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
sbn reformatted
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
I faked my injuries.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
(6) Pretty class-less of the Oregon fans to boo injured Cal players.
Agreed. I was yelling at other Duck fans in my section to knock it off. Boo all you want when the guy comes back in a play or two later, but don’t boo a guy who’s down on the field. Not that it justifies anything by anyone, but Cal fans were booing a downed Oregon player late in the game…
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
Cal fans were booing a downed Oregon player late in the game
I was in the student section and we booed as retribution for your booing. Was it low brow and totally bad? Yes. But emotions were high.
In other words, Go Bears!
exactly
we weren’t booing the injured player -
well, let me speak for myself. As soon as that player went down, I turned towards the duck section and started booing at the fans. I was trying to make the point that booing for an injured player is ridiculous. I assume that’s what most people were doing, since there was a fair amount of booing.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I'm sure
that the guy on the ground who was injured could tell the boos were being directed at the fans and not at him.
Seriously, booing players who are down is bad. Period. It is shitty and shameful when the Duck fans do it. It’s shitty and shameful when other fans do it. Be the better fans and take the high road and don’t encourage it. The players don’t know the difference.
actually
I’m sure the players knew the difference at that point, since they heard the duck fans booing our injured players the entire game. It was pretty obvious what we were booing.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
When you’re writhing in pain and down on the ground, and you hear boos, you aren’t thinking to yourself about why someone is booing. You just hear the boos.
Seriously, why are you trying to defend this in any way? Booing injured players is classless. End stop. I understand why the fans did it and why they were pissed at the Duck fans – and rightfully so – but the people that get hurt by this aren’t the other fans. They’re the players on the field who are actually injured.
Don’t boo injuries. There’s no reason to go there. There wasn’t any reason for Duck fans to go there, and it’s a shitty thing to do. There’s no reason to reciprocate either. It doesn’t make Cal fans look better. It just brings them to the Duck fans level.
Is that what you really want to defend – that Cal fans can act bad as long as they do it second?
I (and I assume all Cal fans) were trying to make a point. I think the point was pretty obvious.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
You don’t think the Oregon fans were trying to make a point as well?
The point the Cal fans were trying to make is that booing injured players suck. They did that by…booing injured players.
The point that Duck fans were trying to make is that faking injuries sucks. They did that by…booing injured players.
The point that I’m making is that booing injured players sucks. I don’t see why this is being countered. Either you’re okay with booing injured players under certain circumstances (because injuries were faked or because other fans did the same thing or because you live in Philadelphia) or you’re not.
I agree that the point Oregon fans were trying to make is that faking injuries sucks. So, it is pretty counter-intuitive to boo players who are actually injured, or might be injured.
The point I was trying to make was how ridiculous it is to boo injured players. I did this through satire, which is (as you can probably tell from most of my comments) my preferred method for making my point. Oregon fans clearly weren’t getting the message before, so perhaps seeing how ugly it is on the other side informed them a bit.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
You and other Cal fans made the point by satire…but also by booing injured players. At some point the subtext doesn’t matter because of the text. Countering illegal pick plays that send players out of the game by doing more pick plays and sending players out of the game might make the point that it’s a classless move, but it also is doing that by being classless.
Either the action is defensible because it has a reason behind it or it isn’t. I don’t really see a grey area. I don’t think booing anyone on the ground is defensible. Boo them when they come back in after a play and look good as new if you like, but not on the field. And if other fans are behaving reprehensibly (as Duck fans absolutely were) stooping to their level to prove a point doesn’t make it better.
I think satire is a very effective way of making a point
but that’s my opinion and style. Other people prefer other methods. We can get into intent/effect and the purpose that satire serves, but that’s probably way too deep for this blog.
I think it was a very valid point to make and I would guess that many Oregon fans in attendance got the message. It certainly reached a larger audience than these arguments on the blog have.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
There are lots of effective ways to make points. You can, for instance, shoot all the Duck fans who booed. That would get the point clearly across that you don’t like booing fans. I don’t think that would excuse the shooting, however.
I think it was also equally effective by the Duck fans of making a point that faking injuries sucks. I think it was clear that that was why they were booing. That doesn’t make it defensible.
there’s a big difference between an action and satirizing said action. As I said, I think duck fans got the point. Maybe not. But I think it was a quite effective way of making that point. Us Cal fans, for instance, could not have said in unison “We think you guys are assholes for booing injured players and morons for booing them when you guys caused said injury on an illegal play,” but that, of course, would have been impossible to coordinate at the game. We can make that point here on the blog, but the audience we reach (a few dozen oregon fans?) is minuscule compared to the fans at the game.
As dense as some fans might be, I think Oregon fans got the message.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
There’s no difference to the player on the ground. When you’re hurting the wonderful awesome subtleties of your wit are a bit wasted.
It’s also a lot easier to get on a moral high horse and tell people how classless they are by doing X when you don’t do X yourself.
I’ll bet you a sig that next year’s game has Cal fans booing injured Ducks. I think it’s at Autzen.
Again, I would assume the player on the ground, like most of the people in the stadium, knows exactly what was happening. Maybe not. Not everyone gets satire. A lot of people think Colbert is actually a conservative.
As for morality…again, there is a difference (a big one) between an action and satirizing said action. If you don’t agree, that’s your right.
I don’t really know what happens next year. Maybe some Cal fans do boo an injured player. Maybe not. You guys really opened pandora’s box, and I’ll bet someone will boo some injured oregon player to express the same point. Regardless, I doubt that the majority of Cal fans will stand up and boo an injured Oregon player in unison (and yes, particularly if we injured said oregon player on an illegal play)
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
So by that logic – you would also assume that the Cal players understood why the Duck fans were booing too, right? They understood that other teams had faked injuries and the Duck fans were suspicious, right?
Again, if you satirize an action by doing the same thing, it ultimately doesn’t matter if that action is destructive. If you think an action is morally unsound, partaking of it for whatever reason is still morally unsound. If your friend sleeps with your wife sleeping with their wife satirically (possibly with airquotes as you do so) doesn’t really matter.
Again, want to do a sig bet? I bet Cal fans regardless of venue will boo injuries of Ducks the next game. You say otherwise. Winner sets the loser’s sig to promote the other blog. Deal?
Fuck the Ducks and the Oregon fans (just saying what needs to be said)
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
Well, Oregon fans were booing Mark Anthony because they thought he was faking an injury, when in reality he had a concussion from an illegal pick. Cal fans were booing to show Oregon fans how ugly it is to boo an injured player, and I think we accomplished that goal.
Again, if you satirize an action by doing the same thing, it ultimately doesn’t matter if that action is destructive. If you think an action is morally unsound, partaking of it for whatever reason is still morally unsound. If your friend sleeps with your wife sleeping with their wife satirically (possibly with airquotes as you do so) doesn’t really matter.
I don’t think you’re getting this, and I doubt going over this again is going to do anything, so I leave it alone.
As for your little bet, maybe there will be a few Cal fans who will boo an injured player. Like I said, you guys really opened pandora’s box. A more appropriate bet would be if Cal fans boo injured players from any other team (answer: no), or if Cal fans booed injured oregon player last year (no) or if the entire Cal section boos an injured player (I would guess not). Will there be one or a few cal fans who boo an injured Oregon player? Betting that no one individual in a huge group of people will do a specific action is generally a losing proposition.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I think he gets it, but he disagrees. Can’t you guys just leave it at that?
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
You summed it up nicely here.
Bad form by both sets of fans.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
so to recap:
it wasn’t really a pick, it certainly wasn’t intentional, cal players were definitely faking injuries, and us pointing out how ugly it is too boo players is as bad as, you know, booing a guy who got a concussion from what wasn’t actually an illegal or dirty play. Yes, reasonable!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I definitely didn’t read his initial comments that way. Sounded to me like he was just saying you shouldn’t boo when a player is injured, period….
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
fair enough
I read it as equating Cal fans’ behavior, in response to Oregon fans’ behavior, to Oregon fans’ behavior.
My greater point is that almost every duck fan that has come over to our blog since Saturday (and there have been a lot of them) basically take tow the Oregon view/party line at every opportunity.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
What?
So is the ‘party line’ that it was an illegal pick?
Is it that booing injuries is classless and wrong?
Is it that Cal had a great defense and played a great game and executed well, and if y’all had Riley Oregon likely would have lost?
Because that’s what I’ve said repeatedly.
power to you then!
you also didn’t boo our guy with a concussion. So, you are clearly the exception here. And, seriously, we appreciate that.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
That's not at all what I said.
It certainly was a pick.
It’s hard to say whether him lowering the shoulder was intentional. I doubt he wanted to injure the guy, because he ALSO got injured.
Pointing out that it’s ugly to boo injuries is fine. Pointing that out BY BOOING INJURIES is as bad as booing injuries.
well, that’s your opinion. And perhaps you think Colbert thinks Obama is a communist muslim terrorist too. That’s your call, not mine.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Right. A comedian on a network called comedy central using words like ‘truthiness’ is precisely the same as college kids at home booing when someone goes down with an injury.
How does this make any sense?
Equating satire with the action they are satirizing does not hold water to me. It does to you. Fair enough, that’s your view.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
If you can satirically boo, I’d agree. Actually, that would be kind of awesome. Maybe have everyone stick up air quotes or all say “Booo…uuuurns” at the same time?
That would be win. I’m totally in support of Cal fans all going ’Booo…urns" at the same time.
Yay!
If you can satirically boo
You can, I did, I guess we are finally in agreement and done here FINALLY! Peace has come to CGB!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
So you know for certain that the player that was injured knew you were being satirical?
Heck, you know for certain that the other students were all booing satirically?
Because, ya know, one of the comments from a prior post mentioned how he hopes Cal goes out there and breaks Darron Thomas’s leg. I don’t think that fan was booing satirically…do you?
what I KNOW
is immaterial at this point because no matter what I say, you are set in your beliefs. So, the end (please???)
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
No, there was an initial burst of boos within the student section, but when he got up, most students clapped him off. I know everyone around me did, that’s the difference between Cal and Oregon fans as far as I’m concerned. Students just go with the flow and as soon as some people started clapping other did too, it wasn’t a noticeable clap or anything but it wasn’t a parade of boos as Fletcher made it sound. A spatter of boos, mostly claps. I can’t say the same for Oregon fans.
I was in section H and booed then clapped… It was symbolic and I’m taking it to the grave!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Why do Ducks need to post here?
It is a Cal blog. We really don’t need Ducks coming here to stir up sh#t.
Either way, focus on what’s important… Beat Furd
They're all new accounts.
Someone thinks they’re being cheeky.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
Same reason that Cal fans come to our blog...
There are reasonable fans on both sides who enjoy discourse with the opposing fan base. There no reason not to when a basic level of mutual respect is observed.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
by M. Fletcher on Nov 15, 2010 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
plus our content is usually the best in the Pac-10… take that Nestor!
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
If you are talking about the comments that’s one thing… I think the content itself has been reasonable, save for maybe one of Avi baby’s posts… But it doesn’t help when you have people joining CGB today to troll and whine about faking injuries… Though page views are going up today I bet
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
yum alternate universes...
…can we find that box in that Futurama episode so I can jump in and find the universe where the ball bounces Cal’s way and we win the game? I want to live in that universe. Maybe that device from Fringe? I just hope our school colors are not mauve and teal in that universe.
aww crap…posted in the wrong article…now I need two alternate universes
by bluehenbear on Nov 15, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Too much divergence now. You're going to have to sacrifice a lot of Husky fans to get back.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
by M. Fletcher on Nov 15, 2010 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
I'm up for it.
Who wants to go on a road trip?
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Save some gas, they’ll be here in two weeks for you to sacrifice them
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yeah...
Three years now and I’m still not used to this whole “Big Game not the last game of the season” thing.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
I really wish they’d fix that problem… even next year ASU is our last game…
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
WHAT
Oh fuck that jazz, man.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
I’d probably try to find the box where Macarthur (if I remember right, but maybe it was Makonnen?) doesn’t slip on Aaron Rodgers 4th down pass against USC in 2004, and instead catches the game winning touchdown. But maybe that’s just me?
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 11:36 AM PST up reply actions
Sigh. I wanted to cry after that game. I threw my shoe at the television.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I guess that wouldn’t have ended Cal’s Rose Bowl draught, though. I still find the National Championship game v Rose Bowl debate extremely interesting!
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
What boggled my mind was that there was plenty of time on the clock, and we had JJ Arrington AND Marshawn Lynch on the roster. Why couldn’t we run the damn ball on 1st and goal??!?
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
we tried to "run" it on second down
we attempted to do our shovel pass to Arrington, which was generally very successful. Unfortunately, Mike Patterson blew it up and forced Rodgers to eat the ball. One of the biggest plays of the game.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Arrington never got a touch, is my point. I guess we tried to get it to him, but I don’t see why we couldn’t pound it down their throats once or twice.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
we tried to
that shovel pass is in effect a running play…think of it that instead of getting stuffed for a 2 yard loss on a standard run play, Rodgers had to take the loss.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I guess maybe we should have called a different running play, then?
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
well, that's hindsight
Patterson blew that play up, but the shovel pass was a very reliable play for us for a long time.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Makonnen slipped on 4th down
MacArthur dropped it in the endzone on an earlier down
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
This was shortly after Harbaugh's corpse was thrown into the shredder.
"Today's weather, excessively violent with a chance of dismemberment. Tune in later for our 5-day forecast!"
~ Three Dog - Fallout 3
by Swamphunter on Nov 15, 2010 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Cal played a great game, and I’m sure you feel like you should have won the game(rightfully so). The one thing that I do want to contest about this article is can you really honestly say you think your players were really injured? The versus telecast clearly showed players standing up fine one second, then they would look over to the sideline and suddenly drop to the ground. One play in the final quarter shows one of your players dropping then pointing to a few different places in his body as being hurt. And can you really blame Oregon fans for booing when this happens to us every game like clockwork? Don’t get me wrong, I am all about giving the player the benefit of the doubt because if they are really injured that is horrible. Anyway, great game your defense played great and you have a lot of really good athletes on your team. Good luck to you the rest of the way.
And can you really blame Oregon fans for booing
You know, I actually do blame Oregon fans for booing our player with a concussion. Call me crazy, but I do!
Of course, it’s extra funny that the reason he had a concussion was because of an illegal pick.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 15, 2010 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Seriously mods this is getting ridiculous. Can we start the “no commenting for 48 hours after account activation” rule in place in so many other blogs to prevent exactly this?
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Don’t get me wrong, I am all about giving the player the benefit of the doubt because if they are really injured that is horrible.
That’s all you needed to say and should have said about it, then. Thanks, and best of luck.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQnQwAVzZcE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4haUDu0fgYE
etc.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
Just curious
How is a late hit after the ball is thrown comparable to tackling a guy while he’s running?
I do think that Chung went a bit high, but it’s hard when the guy is going down anyway and he didn’t lead with the helmet. I don’t see the comparison.
I don’t see the comparison
Of course not. Take off the Green glasses and re-watch. In any case, that’s just one example. Chung was a headhunter, and there’s no denying that. You can try to rationalize, explain, excuse, or justify the litany of these dirty or cheap hits all you like, but at some point you need to open your eyes and admit that there is something wrong there.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
Again
How is tackling a player with a ball the same as hitting a player from behind without the ball?
How is tackling a player from the front the same as hitting the player from behind?
I already said that Chung went high. He does it in the NFL too. I don’t see how the two acts are at all comparable.
I’m not really seeing the comparison either, honestly. The hit on Riley doesn’t look that bad to me, at least as an isolated incident.
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2010 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
Why would you compare an illegal hit (fBSU) to a legal one?
Chung hit Riley with his shoulder while he was still moving forward and had not gone down.
Either you’re really reaching, or that is simply a poor example of what you’re talking about.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
And can you really blame Oregon fans for booing when this happens to us every game like clockwork?
Yes, yes they can. Booing a player down on the field is classless and unsportsmanlike. Boo him when he comes back to the field right after going out “injured.”
I’m sick of fans who rationalize shitty behavior with “BUT, BUT, BUT HE DID IT FIRST.” Fuck that, be responsible for your own behavior and stop blaming everyone else.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
by M. Fletcher on Nov 15, 2010 2:21 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
You.
I like you.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How about if we CHEER when a Cal player is hurt? Is that better?
For Crissakes, you’d think people with a Cal education would understand the difference. The Oregon fans aren’t booing the player because he’s hurt. They’re booing anyone who may have taken a dive. It’s guilt by association.
All you guys whining about how classless it is to boo injured players. Run out of other things to complain about ….like the last 9:25 and your offense is sitting on their asses on the sideline?
You don’t like it, play better.
How would playing better solve the problem of classless Oregon fans?
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
That is true. He’s three steps ahead of us.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
oh please
shut up.
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
All you guys whining about how classless it is to boo injured players.
Actually it’s lame duck fans like you coming in here whining and bitching about fake cramps or whatever. Never seen so much goddamned whining from a team that WON the game in my life. You just don’t like that you came within an inch of losing and have to prop up your newfound insecurity with excuses as to why you came so close to losing. Weak sauce…
by SonofCalifornia on Nov 16, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
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oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rookie Blues
Watching Cal Football since 2002? Boller, Rodgers, get some film on fellows named Morton, Bartkowski etc.
Oregon o-line play was nasty bordering on illegal, the secondary was playing, as they say, tight; but the fix was in.
Q: How do d-linemen keep getting high leg cramps?
A: By the o-line cracking back or leg whipping.
Q: When can a defender grab the brim of a helment and it not be called a facemask?
A: When the defender is a duck.
Cal lost because of poor special teams play, and a fumble.
Go Bears!
Beat Stanford!
Being a fan of the Golden Bears isn't an obsession, it is a curse.
I love these posts. I’d appreciate your thoughts on the 3rd down run by Vereen that preceeded Tavecchio’s FG attempt. I can’t remember the distance (3?) for a first or where they were (from the 6?), but I remember it was a run by Vereen to the left when the ball was originally spotted at the left hash. On the one hand, gotta like that they gave it to The Man who ran to the side of Schwartz/MSG, but on the other it left them running to the short side of the field which also left the ball at the left hash for GT. To me, if you go run, why not try a play that would put the ball at the center of the field if they didn’t get the first or the right hash mark. I’m thinking a reverse/fly sweep to Allen/Ross or give it to Vereen off-tackle?
BTW, I love the decision to not pass, as Mansion with a short field is highly questionable at that stage of the game. Also, do you think Tedford thought to call a TO to let GT kick it at the north side of the field when there were a gazillion duck fans in the SE end zone? Obviously, burning TO’s in a tight ball game isn’t ideal, but Mansion was already burning them early in both halves…and we still didn’t have enough TO’s at the end.
For the record, I’m of the belief that Cal need 10+, not 3 points, to win this game.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
So what you're saying is
Tedford should’ve centered the ball?
I thought that’s too conservative! Go for the touchdown!
Who knows. Tavecchio should have nailed it.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
No. The ‘centering’ bs was when Riley ran around a kneeled down in the center of the field. At least with Vereen it could be a real play with the possibility of a first or even a TD. Even if he makes it over to the right side of the field, I think it’s an easier kick (push vs pull). I don’t get running off tackle to the short side of the field on such a key down when the right side offered a better spot while still incorporating the positives of Vereen/Allen/Ross running it and Brock not throwing it.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Schwartz and MSG
They’re good. We need 2 yards, go behind the big guys.
(In case you’re wondering, it was blown up by a completely whiffed block by someone on the backside, Center or Right Guard, I forget)
Personally, I think it’s the correct move to improve the chance of getting the 2 yards rather than slightly decrease the chance of our kicker screwing it up.
I have a lot of confidence in our kicker screwing it up. I also have a lot of confidence in Vereen getting two yards. Therefore I run right and center the damn thing up in case I’m wrong on the second point. I knew as soon as we ran left that we’d screwed up badly.
by HelloBowlesHall on Nov 15, 2010 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Do we actually think what side the ball is on makes a big difference in FG%? Has this ever been studied?
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 6:56 AM PST up reply actions
I also like the idea of running to the open side of the field to increase the chances that the ball is centered even if you don’t get a first down. Either Ludwig didn’t think about that or perhaps he was hoping to catch Oregon off guard.
As for burning a timeout to kick into the north end zone, I’m not sure I would do that. Of course I would prefer to kick into the north endzone because there are less Oregon fans in that end zone, but I don’t think it’s worth using a timeout over.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Hydro wrote: “The way our defense was playing, and with the added energy and momentum of taking a 16-15 lead against the #1 team in the nation at home … I just don’t think we lose.”
__________________________
Well, here’s how the Cal defense DID play, at an even MORE important time: TRYING TO GET THE FREAKING BALL BACK:
Oregon at 9:25 left in the 4th Quarter:
1st and 10 at ORE 20 LaMichael James rush for 5 yards to the Oregon 25.
2nd and 5 at ORE 25 CALIFORNIA penalty 5 yard Offside accepted.
1st and 10 at ORE 30 LaMichael James rush for 5 yards to the Oregon 35 for a 1ST down.
2nd and 5 at ORE 35 LaMichael James rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Oregon 34.
3rd and 6 at ORE 34 Darron Thomas pass complete to Kenjon Barner for 6 yards to the Oregn 40 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at ORE 40 Kenjon Barner rush for 6 yards to the Oregn 46.
2nd and 4 at ORE 46 Kenjon Barner rush for 8 yards to the Cal 46 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at CAL 46 Kenjon Barner rush for 4 yards to the Oregn 48, OREGON penalty 10 yard Holding declined.
1st and 16 at ORE 48 Kenjon Barner rush for 5 yards to the Cal 47.
2nd and 11 at CAL 47 Kenjon Barner rush for 5 yards to the Cal 42.
3rd and 6 at CAL 42 Timeout OREGON, clock 4:26.
3rd and 6 at CAL 42 Darron Thomas rush for 7 yards to the Cal 35 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at CAL 35 Kenjon Barner rush for 2 yards to the Cal 33.
2nd and 8 at CAL 33 Kenjon Barner rush for 4 yards to the Cal 29.
3rd and 4 at CAL 29 LaMichael James rush for 5 yards to the Cal 24 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at CAL 24 LaMichael James rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Cal 25.
2nd and 11 at CAL 25 Timeout CALIFORNIA, clock 1:45.
2nd and 11 at CAL 25 LaMichael James rush for 6 yards to the Cal 19.
3rd and 5 at CAL 19 LaMichael James rush for 7 yards to the Cal 12 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at CAL 12 Victory Formation team rush for a loss of 1 yard to the Cal 13.
2nd and 11 at CAL 13 Victory Formation team rush for a loss of 2 yards to the Cal 15.
End of Game
Yeah, good luck with that hydro-thetical.
FAIL.
So getting the ball back is more important than….getting the ball back?
Genius analysis.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
There is an awesome forum for folks like you who have problems reading.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:45 PM PST up reply actions
Can we just put into place the 1 (or 2-3) day waiting period between joining CGB and posting? Lots of SBN blogs do this. It’s especially important when the mood has turned sour like it has now. It just attracts the the worst out of everyone.
I suggested this this morning actually.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
I think this will all blow over pretty soon. Don’t worry. We’ve moved up all of our Oregon content to get it out of the way asap
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
It is pretty standard policy for a lot of blogs, and pretty easy to implement. Not sure why the resistance.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 3:55 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t see good reason to do it. We’ve had a few Oregon fans come over to troll. If you have a problem, instead of further igniting a potential flame war, send an email to the Hit Squad with a link to the post and your reasoning as to action. I wouldn’t want a single Cal fan to come here and be unable to comment (and then potentially lose interest in commenting) when the Hit Squad can do the trick.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
plus spazzy, it’s not like you and I don’t like arguing.
(are we now going to argue about this sentence?)
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I like arguing about stuff worth arguing about, not douche after douche coming in here and telling us how our players cheated.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 4:08 PM PST up reply actions
It’s one thing for them to come in here and actually talk about the football played on Saturday, or the coaches or whatnot, but when they come in here and accuse our players of cheating, it really bothers me. It kinda seems like you’re to the point where the rancor on this site is like flies buzzing in the distance to you but I figured you’d stand up for our players more than that. They can read this site, you know.
It’s just such an easy thing to implement and done by so many sites that I really don’t see the downside. W/e.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you very much for your proposal, Spazzy. You make a lot of great points. I will consider it, discuss it with others (as I am not really the sole person who would make this decision), and then get back to you. Until then, feel free to email the Hit Squad should you have any concerns regarding posts.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Just to lend my (unsolicited) thoughts on the matter too. I think the decision about adding this delay for posting/commenting is really a balance with making it easier for new users to join and add to the community versus the risk of having trolls drag the site into a stupid fight. I understand that it’s not an obvious, no-lose choice.
I agree that this particular shitstorm will probably pass soon enough. However, I think that if discussions like what we’ve had the last few days continue, there is a risk of it altering the tenor of the conversation on this site. Besides the great analysis, one of the great things about the site is its ability to avoid typical internet shitstorms like this. There obviously are arguments, but it’s generally more reasonable than I have learned to expect on the internet.
Just my two cents but I’d love to hear your reasoning after you guys have had a chance to discuss.
Maybe the Hit Squad should hide troll comments? Or is that too BN-esque?
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 6:59 AM PST up reply actions
I’m not a fan of it, personally. Makes it difficult to get other fanbases viewpoints. Sure, trolls come with that, but oh well, don’t feed the troll. I think it’s very worthwhile to see what the other side is thinking.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 6:58 AM PST up reply actions
yeah, I agree
I don’t like bannings, but that is just my personal opinion.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Momentum
in your mind, it does not exist.
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
Ya
Can you imagine what that stadium would have been like on that last drive if we had the lead? It literally gives me goosebumps. To say that it would have occurred the same way as it did proves that the poster was nowhere near Memorial Stadium on Saturday night.
by HelloBowlesHall on Nov 15, 2010 6:23 PM PST up reply actions
Momentum exists. Except when it doesn’t. I’m pretty agnostic on the notion, personally.
by Missing Barry on Nov 16, 2010 7:00 AM PST up reply actions
Except that you can get any past player of college level football, including myself (J.C.), to tell you that it does indeed exist and can sometimes be sparked by what might seem like insignificant stuff to a fan. I have no doubt taking the lead would have lent an extra spark to our players and give them the momentum they needed to likely pull out a win.
by SonofCalifornia on Nov 16, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
but the change in playcalling does exist
Ryan Verdugo, my adopted son, strikes out 13.2 per 9 innings in his career. He has a 1.63 ERA in San Jose this year. Call him up to be a Flying Squirrel. He is also a member of the "Giants who went to LSU" club with Mike Fontenot, a.k.a Grant.
Stop being a dick on the Cal blog.
You make all Oregon fans look like assholes by association. Seriously, knock it the fuck off.
"It’s great with these group of guys. There is no panic in them." --Chip Kelly, Clearly NOT talking about members of ATQ.
oh this one's a real winner
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oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 6:29 PM PST up reply actions
Add a few very generous spots to that list!
by SonofCalifornia on Nov 16, 2010 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Man this post is clusterfuck of dickhead duck fans, it almost makes me hate my
Duck friends who I respect and usually (atleast say) they root for Cal when we aren’t playing Oregon.
After the game I talked to my Duck friends who wished Cal nothing but luck going forward. I said the booing was a bit bad and they agreed. They said, while the injuries may have seemed “fishy” they would rather give the players the benefit of doubt. They also said they would want their defenders to do the same thing if the situation were reversed.
Anyways, not really trying to make a point, just wanted to share my experience with my Duck friends.
I would rather use this post to talk about Cal issues, rather than whether a player was injured and booing.
Things I would like to talk about:
1. How can Tedford fix/improve this offense? I know we have a young QB but this offense had issues before Mansion even took a snap and continues to have issues besides Mansion missing WR’s.
2. I know people have been down on Clancy, especially after the OSU game. Does this last game change peoples opinions of him? Does this last game show that Clancy is indeed learning from past mistakes (such as the Nevada debacle, I know they are two different styles of spread but they have similar elements) and improving as a college DC?
3. What happened to Isi? I think a lot of people know I haven’t been the biggest Isi fan. I did see some improvement of him, however, with Isi not getting a single carry kind of reinforces my opinions of Isi not being the best choice as our 2nd string RB. Does this mean the coaches don’t fully trust Isi in a big game? If so that doesn’t bode well for us and Vereen next week against the furd, as well as next season.
4. I would like to see Ludwig let go but who would be a candidate to replace him? I in all honesty, I do not know coordinators very well so this one is a bit difficult.
Anyways, these are just a few things that popped in my head over the course of the day.
re: 1&4, only a dominant run game, suitable pass protection, and an accurate QB will get Ludwig/Tedford’s offense to work.
All that isn’t needed if the offense gets a bit more simple, less freakin shotgun, and well tuned. I’m tired of passes flying around in the general zip code of receivers. You don’t need 5000 fancy plays, you need about 5 unstoppable ones that you can run out of any formation. Spread the ball around, take what the D gives you, keep the ball moving forward.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Hey Kalon!
I guess you wandered over to UC Eugene/ATQ long enough to post this:
Oh, absolutely
They’re totally cowards if they’re faking injuries
Now, here’s what I think is cowardly: Dante Rosario jump kicking a defenseless player’s back in 06. Tunei lowering his shoulder on an illegal play (if Tedford is a coward, JLight, for ordering what you think are fake injuries, is not Kelly a coward for ordering picks on defenseless players?), all of the Oregon fans booing a kid with a concussion, your former RB sucker punching a player and then going after fans (fans!), your former QB stealing laptops, your current running back choking his girlfriend. Many more I could add to this list, but you get the point.
You know what else is cowardly? Pretending you’re so levelheaded and honest here and then going over to ATQ and posting shit like that. That’s both cowardly and dishonest.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 15, 2010 8:16 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Oh btw you’re an asshole, according to jtlight, for attacking for Dvieria the other night. I posted once to tell him that wasn’t true and got warned.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:38 PM PST up reply actions
yes, I know I am.
I went on Dvieria’s blog and called his team cheaters.
…or maybe that’s what he did? Can’t remember.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
You left out Josh Kaddu, Oregon starting strongside linebacker, and his attempted grand theft auto.
According to the Eugene Police Department, Kaddu was spotted by police around midnight as he attempted to open the door of a car that did not belong to him. When approached by an officer, Kaddu was “unresponsive” and showed signs of intoxication.
http://www.dailyemerald.com/linebacker-gets-mip-citation-after-trying-to-open-vehicle-1.1258651
http://twitter.com/solariseCGB
err...
Did you actually read the whole thing I wrote?
I was saying that faking injuries is good gamesmanship. It’s cowardly, but it’s still good gamesmanship.
Nowhere – not once – did I mention Cal. Not once! I was talking about faking injuries in general (which was the topic) and the practice as applied to Oregon. I was mentioning that it’s a valid tactic to slow Oregon down and let the defense catch their breath, even if it’s a bit underhanded.
I didn’t say Cal did it. I didn’t say that Cal was cowards for doing it. In fact, read what I wrote that you quoted me on again:
They’re totally cowards IF they’re faking injuries.
If they’re not faking injuries? They’re not cowards. I’m not sure how else to phrase it so it’s more understandable, but I apologize for the misunderstanding.
I went over there specifically because I was told I was causing problems here. I didn’t mention Cal, I didn’t say Cal faked injuries, and I even said that faking injuries was a valid (if underhanded) tactic. And the biggest thing I said was this:
More importantly, duck fans (and the Ducks) just need to get over it and accept it’ll happen and move on. Heck, I’d think it’s a sign of weakness and cheer a bit – just like home teams cheer when they get a false start. If you see that they have to fake an injury to stop you, you’ve already got them on the ropes. They’re going down soon.
But don’t boo.
For the record, and so ASU fans reading this can get irate: Burfict is a fucking coward and cheap shot artist. He’s the only one I have a real beef with, and that’s for a lot of other things aside from faking injuries.
For the record, Rosario’s ninja kick should have gotten him kicked out of that game. Fans booing anyone with any injury is lamer than hell, and I’ve not deviated one bit from that. Chung probably should have gotten hit with a flag for the helmet to helmet hit, even though I don’t think he did it on purpose. I was disappointed with LMJ but I also think he did his time for it. I was more disappointed with Blount and still am. And I’m hugely disappointed in Masoli, but he’s off the team; I’m not sure what else to say.
Anyway, I promised that I wasn’t going to post here for a while but you specifically addressed me by name. I would have been happy to post the same stuff I wrote there here.
But hey
since we’re bringing up awesome people, why aren’t you talking about this gem?
In the 1990s, Tessie Ford, who was eight months pregnant, along with her young son were murdered in their Sacramento home by her husband. Where is he now? – Anonymous, Sacramento. Mariet Timothy Ford (left in a 1998 photo), now 49, is in prison, records show.
A Sacramento Superior Court judge sentenced Ford – a former University of California, Berkeley, football star – in 1998 to 45 years to life in prison for murdering his pregnant wife, 3-year-old boy and unborn son, The Bee reported.
There are some others that are easily found (and more recent ones, if you care), but the point is that every college football program has shitty players now and then, because every school has shitty players now and then. That I don’t spend every waking moment condemning their actions and begging for my team’s absolution doesn’t mean I am accepting or excusing of it. And just because those players sucked doesn’t mean the school is a bunch of wife murderers or encourages that explicitly.
Very good!
There are some others that are easily found (and more recent ones, if you care), but the point is that every college football program has shitty players now and then, because every school has shitty players now and then
So for your mods (sorry, not yours, since you’re not a participant over there) the ATQ mods and you to call our players and coaches cowardly is preposterous. Like pretty much every comment that the deluge of duck fans have left on this site over the last 48 hours, it just reeks of hypocrisy.
IF they were faking injuries, IF! Well, we definitively know your coach draws up plays with illegal picks, and it looks like one said play just ended our player’s regular season, so I guess you guys are cowards too. I hope my point is absolutely crystal clear.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I don’t think you understand the word ‘hypocrisy’.
If I was saying that Rosario was not a coward for kicking a downed player, that would be hypocritical if I said that a Cal player was a coward for faking an injury.
I didn’t.
I never said that the pick play wasn’t illegal. I’m sorry it ended a player’s season, but chances are it ended the WR’s season as well. Those things should be better enforced. All teams have those crossing routes and run them; if you like, I’ll go back and watch the tape to specifically find a moment in the last game where Cal did that too.
I didn’t even say that the Cal players or coaches were cowardly. Not once! Find a quote where I say that, please. However, if Tedford coached Tipoli to go down after two running plays and fake an injury so that he had time to get in his pass rushers on a long 3rd down, that’s a pretty cowardly act. Doesn’t mean things that the Ducks do aren’t. Doesn’t mean that the rapists and murderers that were Cal players aren’t bad either. It’s a single point of data.
Enjoy the rest of your season, CBKWit. I am done with you as well. If you want to talk to me about points I make over at ATQ, do so via email or over there.
Good luck to the rest of the Bear fans and the Bears. I do hope you beat Stanford and Washington, and I really hope you get to go bowling this year. You’re still a great program and have a great coach.
Apparently my point was not clear. So let me try again:
How is Rosario/Tunei/etc. etc. etc. any less cowardly than someone faking a cramp?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
the secondary point
how can any oregon fan get on a moral high horse about any program, considering their recent history?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
the third point
how about we all cut out the grandiose moralizing, since all programs have dirty moments in their histories? Some more than others in recent years, but still.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Gee. And to think I used to actually like Oregon and its fans.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
I tell you, we're a sleezy bunch of mutha fuckrs. Fuck us all! That could be even funner.
And, you were/are right. You DO like to argue.
Rationally discuss? Not so much. BtW, how’s your blood pressure?
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
Bunch of morons
But they’re probably a bunch of high school kids with a 10th grade education, no football experience, and no real world/life experience. Meaning their opinions don’t amount to s**t. Dismissed!
by SonofCalifornia on Nov 16, 2010 4:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
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