Cheap Shot By Oregon Receiver Lavasier Tuinei Exhibits Preferential Treatment For Offensive Players
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 6:19 PM PST
in California Golden Bears Football
Email
Print
(via calicali49a)
The Oregon Ducks have had a history of cheap-shot artists, Patrick Chung and T.J. Ward being the two most notable names. That has spread from the Oregon secondary to the Oregon receiving corps. Ed Dickson did it a lot last year, and in yesterday's game Lavasier Tuinei was not flagged or ejected for knocking out cornerback Marc Anthony early in the contest with a dirty play, and is not likely to be suspended for the action.
So technically, there's nothing in the NCAA rulebook that says Tuinei can't pick Anthony without getting thrown out of the game, but it should be in the rulebook. It's a cheap play that can lead to serious injury to the guy getting targeted. There are many problems with football, and one of the biggest ones these days is how the teeth has been taken out of NFL defenders for going high to the head. While I don't disagree with the decision--it's important to protect the safety of the players--why does this go only one way in protecting players?
Look at what NCAA plays are technically frowned upon.
- If the quarterback has already handed off the ball to a teammate from the line of scrimmage and does not attempt to participate in the play anymore, cannot be targeted.
- A kicker in the act of kicking the ball, until he has had sufficient time to regain his balance after the kick, should not be targeted.
- A passer in the act of passing the ball should not be targeted until he has regained his balance after letting go of the ball.
- A receiver who is in the act of catching the ball, or if the pass receiver has already relaxed and shows no indication that he can still catch the pass cannot be targeted.
- The kick receiver who is in the act of catching the ball as it hurtles downward cannot be targeted. Likewise, the kick receiver cannot be targeted once he has touched the ball for a fair catch.
- Any player who has shown no intention of getting the ball once the ball is declared dead cannot be tackled.
- Helmet-to-Helmet contact or head-butts are illegal in the NCAA.
You see a trend? Anyone on the offensive side of the field (and the scoring side of special teams) is being protected from nasty hits. But what about defenders who are getting laid out on illegal picks? If you're going to go after defenders for knocking around quarterbacks, where's the protection for them when the tables have turned? Don't they deserve similar treatment?
Apparently not. Jeff Maehl was openly bragging about receivers setting picks like this in the press conference.
Maehl on his TD:
"Just a great play call by Chip [Kelly], scheming it up coming out of halftime. They were playing man the whole game. It was just a crossing route to try and get a pick and Darron [Thomas] put it on me."
Sweet. Nice to see Oregon is no better than USC in exploiting the rules. What's worse is that if Tuinei had been laid out like that by Anthony, it'd have been fifteen yards and an automatic first down. The double standard is baffling.
It's incredibly ironic that Oregon fans will boo players for "cramping up to stop their offense" (and apparently Anthony, who was definitely injured), but will happily ignore hits like the one Tuinei laid on one of ours. Oregon has had a long-standing history of dirty actions on the football field that have knocked Cal players out of the game. The NCAA should take a long look at punishing the program or suspending players because of these infractions. Anthony and Kevin Riley have already fallen prey to these shenanigans.
It's time for the Ducks to be punished for their actions before someone gets permanently injured. A suspension to Tuinei would be a good start. It'll never happen though. Enjoy the ride to the title game boys, don't knock out too many players on the way.
375 comments
|
2 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Kelly is the one who should be suspended
He coaches picks. It is no different, IMO, than a coach that teaches illegal chop blocks (while engaged with a lineman). The plays are dangerous, but because serious injuries rarely occur, they are only called on WRs when the “pick” happens close to the line of scrimmage.
I got in several arguments over this, especially because so many people are whining about the fake injuries (which do have a cost in terms of the player needing to sit out a play), which I was a bit put off by how often it was done yesterday. They complained over that but had no problem with a guy’s season potentially being ended because their team practiced inherently dangerous, illegal, plays.
I doubt penalties will be issued on WRs with any regularity (especially when it happens down field) until someone is seriously hurt.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
Great points.
Kelly is the one who should be suspended
Exactly. He calls the plays, the receivers just run them.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Like what? Proof? We have proof of the illegal pick. We have proof that 10k+ fans booed the guy who got a concussion after a well coached cheap shot by your players.
BTW Avi I don’t think there was a need for this post.
In other words, Go Bears!
If you were at the game maybe you didn't see the telecast
But the announcers shows multiple times in replay how the Defensive lineman walked back to the ball, looked to the sideline, got the call, then dropped to the ground.
It was so obvious, the announcers were making fun of him.
Well, it was pretty funny
to see them draw a big red circle around the guy and chortle when he looked to the sideline then sat down.
it was also funny
to hear your fans boo Mark Anthony as he’s down with a concussion.
…is funny the right word?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Sadly,
When there are a lot fakes, you can’t always tell the difference immediately. It’s a slippery slope debated among Duck fans.
yep
which is why the right answer is to boo all of them, assuming every injury is a fake.
Right?
And for the record, most duck fans on the blogs have said that they shouldn’t boo. Sadly, these enlightened blog folk are not representative of the general fanbase.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
well, you know who doesn't?
all of the duck fans at memorial last night!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 14, 2010 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Please don’t put all your money into duck food futures again. It’s a highly volatile market, and I really see the market for it going south this winter.
8
still a dick move
y’all looked like your offense needed the extra time anyway.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
You ever suffer cramps after exercising before?
Sudden muscle tightening can happen out of no where. Is this what happened? I don’t know. But, you don’t either.
I also know cramps usually take a while to go away
So, when the guy runs back on the field a play or two later, you know he’s full of shit.
I'd give the benefit of the doubt
If it didn’t happen so regularly and at the same time. It’s a strategy. Face it. It’s an unenforceable rule and people take advantage of it.
Kind of like holding Maehl to prevent a long TD pass. If the ref’s don’t catch it it’s just a good play right?
Regularly?
It happened 3 times. Two players. Hill and Payne twice. Both of whom were already nursing minor injuries coming into the game. First quarter Hill goes down. Payne goes down twice in the 3rd and in the 4th. That’s it.
You know, if we’re faking cramps to slow the game down, we did a PISS POOR JOB of it.
Kind of like holding Maehl to prevent a long TD pass. If the ref’s don’t catch it it’s just a good play right?
Just saying that
because nearly every Duck opponent has done it this year I feel comfortable in saying that it is clearly a tactic used in an attempt to disrupt the offense. And no, it doesn’t always work.
well, you won't find any sympathy here
we’re all communist
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 14, 2010 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Doubtful. Tedford wouldn’t cook that up.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 3:03 PM PST up reply actions
Not necessarily.
Your muscles have to be worked to the max to suffer persistent cramps that require hours for full recovery. When I played tennis in high school, I might feel this way after a full practice session involving copious amounts of sprinting. However, if cramps hit during a match, i could stretch my legs and shake it off and be right back into it. It’s not like your muscle overshortens and stays that way for more than a few minutes.
good point
I played hockey last night and I hurt my knee. I was very slow to get up but made it out for the rest of the game, didn’t miss a shift. After the game, my knee really tightened up and I could barely walk.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
No, no, no. You were faking it.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:44 PM PST up reply actions
This injury looks fake. I can tell by some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few fake injuries in my time.
Today's the day the California Golden Bears have their picnic.
by zoonews on Nov 15, 2010 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Legitimate question here. Did this happen? I know I saw at least a couple of cases of guys going down, getting booed, and then staying off the field for the rest of the drive. I also noticed one instance of a injured player going back in later in a drive, but after a few plays. After seeing tv replays of Cal players falling to the ground, I guess I can’t be too surprised if they went back out on the next play, but I never witnessed it.
Also (and this is true regardless of perpetrator and victim), lowering your shoulder and blindsiding a guy without the ball is a whole different class of offense than falling to the ground because you can’t catch your breath. Trying to compare faking an injury to making a dirty hit and causing a concussion is ridiculous.
I would guess
that this is probably exactly what happened.
Running a high speed offense tires other players. Shocking, I know. You know what the coaches probably told them? Don’t try to play through a cramp, go down and get out. Since normal teams plays slow enough that they could normally limp off in time to sub out, they don’t have to go down. Because of the way that Oregon plays, the only way a team can get an injury sub (even a minor injury like a cramp) is by stopping play. Stop whining.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Seriously?
because they spend literally months practicing and playing at that speed
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
No, it’s because Nike would strip their scholarship and sentence them to living out their lives in Eugene if they dared to show weakness in front of supreme leader Phil Knight.
Recruiting updates on Twitter
by CaliforniaEternal on Nov 14, 2010 8:17 PM PST up reply actions
Phil Knight always needs new people to sew in his sweatshops. You get cramps during a game, you get a new job making shoes!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Cal's defensive players
Were the fastest I’ve seen all year. Obviously in great condition. Hell, Tedford said themselves that their extra conditioning paid off and that their guys weren’t gassed at all.
So why so much “cramping”? Are you saying Oregon’s players are just that much better?
Well we’re .500, you’re #1 in the country – so I think yes.
by LeonPowe on Nov 14, 2010 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
because [the ducks] spend literally months practicing and playing at that speed
Have you not read all the articles about the ducks amazing conditioning and speed? This is not a difficult concept.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
This whole argument, this whole 2 site back and forth, is beginning to tire.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 14, 2010 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
I feel like we should find something new to bitch about regarding Oregon. But what should it be?
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
so many options!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 14, 2010 8:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Pump your own gas - go to prison.
That’s the worst law EVER!
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the Farm, after they've seen Berkeley?
by CalBear81 on Nov 14, 2010 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You don't give your team enough credit
Cal’s defense was awesome. The weren’t worn down at the end of the game like everyone else.
If Tedford could get them to play consistently, you’d be contending every year.
That and if you had a QB.
I think it's pretty obvious
that Cal’s d was worn down at the end of the game, since they could not get off the field for the first time all game.
Really, all those articles about oregon’s practice and game speed…do you think it makes no difference?
All of the guys who were “faking” it had existing injuries. Not very surprising.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I do believe
That Oregon is the best conditioned team.
But, It is pretty obvious that their opponents are faking it. They wait until the offense approaches the ball so that the sideline gets a look. Then they go down. Almost every time other personnel are substituted with the “injured player”.
At this point in the season, what player doesn’t have an existing injury?
again
You know what the coaches probably told them? Don’t try to play through a cramp, go down and get out. Since normal teams plays slow enough that they could normally limp off in time to sub out, they don’t have to go down. Because of the way that Oregon plays, the only way a team can get an injury sub (even a minor injury like a cramp) is by stopping play
So, not only does the speed of the oregon offense create more injuries (like cramps), but players aren’t able to get off the field in time to get a sub without going down.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Dude
I really hope you get the chance to see the replay. It will be added to the youtube collection of greatest faked injuries that is compiled weekly.
The guy is walking around normally after the play. He looks to the sideline, gets the call, then sits down. There was no evidence of a cramp, prior to him looking to the sideline.
fair enough
I have not seen the clip, and it is very possible you are correct.
But, since you still won’t admit that your receiver lowered his shoulder and hammered our player…I mean, you should debate in good faith, no?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
As I say lower down...
I think it was a “standard” pick play (if you will) that went awry.
I really don’t think Tunei was trying to blindside him. You have two Ducks crossing, with 4 defenders in the area. It looks possible that Tunei’s vision was obstructed by the two safeties and it looks to me like he tried to bail out on the collision at the last second.
It’s clear they were trying to execute a “pick” play, but I don’t think it was drawn up like that.
i think we're both right
It seemed pretty clear that the “cramps” might have been faked. I don’t think it’s a very honorable strategy, but it is a strategy.
The same goes for throwing dangerous blindside picks downfield. They are both strategies that are dishonorable. So both Ducks and Golden Bears could complain.
But only one of the dishonorable strategies tries to win the game in a way that could cause serious injury.
Flyduck, if we agree that the cramping was a cowardly move, will you agree that the pick that took out our corner was malicious and dangerous?
by slaphancock on Nov 14, 2010 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
Dangerous yes,
But I don’t see the malicious intent. Sorry, having watched Tunei play for two years now, seen him interviewed, I don’t think he was trying to hurt the guy.
I really think they were trying to set up a pick play, but Paulson got in the way and Tunei tried to bail at the last second, injuring both players.
well then
couldn’t we say the same about Tedford and our players? I mean, Tedford is the longest tenured coach in the conference, and everyone, and I mean everyone, acknowledges and discusses how honorable he is. Even his detractors, of which I am one from time to time, will readily admit that he tries to do things the “right” way.
For you to assign motivation for our coaches and players, but absolve those of your players, is hypocritical. This is especially true when it comes to Tedford, who has a much longer, much more public track record than Tunei.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Gassed and getting muscle cramps are two different things. Our players might have been in great aerobic shape but that doesn’t necessarily mean their muscles could handle that pace just the same. Not to mention, all the extra conditioning they did this week also likely fatigued their legs more than usual.
Woohoo Quoted by CBKWit
I feel like a winner today.
by jali on Nov 14, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Assuming that's true
which is the worst safety issue?
penalize Tedford?
If there is a rule you can point to, sure. The player must miss the next play, and I believe that is the extent of the NCAA’s rules on a player going down and asking for assistance.
Tuinei’s hit was an illegal pick by Kelly’s design and arguably a 15 yard personal foul for leveling an unprotected player via unnecessary roughness.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
by The Wisdom Cow on Nov 14, 2010 10:25 PM PST up reply actions
I was under the impression that hits like this, even if they aren't personal fouls by the rules, are considered offensive pass interference.
Here’s what the rule book says (warning: PDF):
Offensive pass interference by a Team A player beyond the neutral zone during a legal forward pass play in which a forward pass crosses the neutral zone is contact that interferes with a Team B eligible player. It is the responsibility of the offensive player to avoid the opponents.
Seems like the play should be illegal for multiple reasons, but apparently the Ducks use it as a viable offensive strategy. Not sure what to make of all of this.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
They take advantage of officials being out of position I believe to make a call
To set said illegal picks. It’s why they’re rarely called out for them.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Chippy probably gave Lavasier some Courvoisier to celebrate their cheap shot tactics.
Recruiting updates on Twitter
by CaliforniaEternal on Nov 14, 2010 6:53 PM PST reply actions
1. Under Tedford we’ve run pick plays before too (I clearly remember DJax running a defender off so that the Hawk could catch a touch down).
2. I would harbor a guess that most teams have pick like plays in their offense. Either that or pass routes which route WRs to run interference between the d-backs.
3. I haven’t seen very much defense of the cheap shot Tuinei took at Marc Anthony.
4. The officials missed it – I don’t think that entails a preference for offensive players over defense. I think its incompetence (or missing the play) rather than design.
by LeonPowe on Nov 14, 2010 7:02 PM PST reply actions 3 recs
You're correct
It’s standard route running versus man coverage. The intent is not to lay someone out, rather make them run around you to create some separation. I believe Tunei was out of control and tried to bail at the last moment when he saw the collision coming. Remember, he was knocked out of the game too.
Now, you are sounding like us trying to defend the muscle “cramps” as being legitimate. On the tape Tunei lowers his shoulder and LUNGES for Antony. If he’s trying to bail, he sure doesn’t show it.
by slaphancock on Nov 14, 2010 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
All teams do . . .
The ultimate question is the degree to which they take it. It is one thing to run a route where your path goes in front of a DB, you beat him to a spot, and he has to slow to avoid contact. That, in my opinion, is a type of “pick” which is legal. Contact is where a line is crossed.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
by The Wisdom Cow on Nov 14, 2010 10:11 PM PST up reply actions
Even in basketball, you have to be standing still, not running full speed at someone.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 4:01 PM PST up reply actions
Avi: I hope you are ready to be pecked to death by angry ducks.
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the Farm, after they've seen Berkeley?
Every team should ‘fake’ cramps against the quacks from now on to piss off their team and fans. The booing only encourages the tactic.
Recruiting updates on Twitter
by CaliforniaEternal on Nov 14, 2010 7:12 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
“It is certain.”
I just asked my Magic 8 ball.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
by The Wisdom Cow on Nov 14, 2010 10:12 PM PST up reply actions
Exploiting the rules, really?
I suppose faking injuries is okay then? Seriously. I really believed Tedford would have more integrity than that.
But, alas, these were some of the worst examples to date. When a lineman walks to the ball, looks to the sideline, then drops like he was shot you know it’s reached ludicrous proportions.
As for the “pick” play…every team runs that against man coverage. It’s standard. You don’t typically get collisions like that, you just want to make the guy run around you. So, I don’t believe Tunei was looking to hit the guy like that. In fact, it looks to me like he tried to bail out at the last moment and ends up injuring himself as well (he never returned). He probably should have just risked the penalty and laid the guy out in order to protect himself.
If want to see an attempt to injure a player here is your guy leading with his head into Walter Thurmond’s knee last year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2Y9UUnVPFU
I suppose you think that holding Jeff Maehl on the opening drive that kept him from a long pass reception was just good defense? After all, it wasn’t flagged…
So, I don’t believe Tunei was looking to hit the guy like that
Uhh, he lowered his shoulder and ran right into him.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
There are 4 defenders
in that immediate area. watch the clip again. tunei clearly turns his body to bail out and hits him with his left arm/side.
Just watched it again
Nice body check! Yeah, still obvious it was extremely intentional.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Take off your green goggles, he lowers his shoulder into Anthony, and the impact makes him turn around because his left shoulder is lower than his head causing him to rotate making him appear as if he’s bailing out, when it’s obvious he’s not, he just got turned around by the impact.
I think he was trying to pick the guy
but I don’t think it was his intention to collide with him like that. Otherwise, he’d have remained square and drilled him with his shoulder pad, not taking the brunt of the impact on his arm.
Again, he injured his arm on the play and never returned.
He plays for offense, I doubt he knows much about how to tackle a defender let alone squaring his shoulders. His eyes opened up wide and you can see him looking straight at Anthony as he sprints towards him lowers his shoulder into his chest.
He might have injured his arm, but as far as everyone is concerned, it was a purposeful, cheap hit. If he was really trying to avoid him, he would have sidestepped him.
At full speed?
There was no way to “sidestep” him. Please. Tunei also has played special teams and is a ferocious blocker. He knows how to tackle.
Tackling and blocking are two different things, first of all.
He is going full speed, but I doubt his vision is so poor that he can’t see the Cal player right in front of him from 5 yards away. It is futile to argue that it was a legal hit. He runs right towards Anthony and looks at him and lowers his shoulder at the moment he’s right next to him. You’re arguing it was all coincidental, which I doubt it.
Not coincidental
But certainly not an attempt to lay him out. I think it was a “standard” pick play that went awry.
Maybe
But since it went awry, he deserves to be punished for it. A one-game suspension at least.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions
We don't need rules either then
because we have pads.
California Golden Blogs! "Woeojuwejhdjwe!!!"... But what does it MEAN?!
It went awry because he lowered his shoulders into a defenseless defender on an ILLEGAL pick.
by ShajBear13 on Nov 14, 2010 9:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
and I watched that video
it’s pretty obvious he’s trying to, you know, tackle the guy who has the ball. Not sure how you can compare that to an illegal pick or, my personal favorite, your player jumping on our player’s back in the 06 game.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
here's the bottomline
one instance of so-called cheating or illegal play was a strategical attempt within the course of the game. Cal is not the first team to employ this tactic and will definitely be the last considering the final result of the game. The other situation is a player, who by performing an illegal act, was in effect greatly endangering the safety of a defenseless player. The severity of these two acts are on completely different levels and therefore cannot be compared. I’m not blaming Tunei or Kelly or anyone but nonetheless those two actions are not of equivalent magnitude and can’t be measured next to one another.
What did i tell you...didn't I say they would win? Yeah that's right I did didn't ? Wait.. what? They LOST?!?!?
'strategical' should be strategic
What did i tell you...didn't I say they would win? Yeah that's right I did didn't ? Wait.. what? They LOST?!?!?
Ok, W.
I agree though – pick plays are “illegal” but every passing team runs them. We run them too – just not very well.
On this instance, I thought Tuinei went beyond just a rule violation and into dirty play – just for this instance. I don’t think Kelly, as arrogant a coach as he is, told him to knock Anthony the fuck out – that was an individual decision, I would suspect.
On this instance, I thought Tuinei went beyond just a rule violation and into dirty play – just for this instance. I don’t think Kelly, as arrogant a coach as he is, told him to knock Anthony the fuck out – that was an individual decision, I would suspect.
Good point. He surely drew up the play, but probably did not tell his player to attempt to injure a Cal player
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
That Thrumond clip
is a great example. Pot meet kettle.
"We aren't into making statements, we are into winning games" -Chip Kelly
What?
That Walter Thurmond tackle was definitely legal. Are you really saying that tackling low on someone while they are running, with the ball, and not engaged with anyone else is an illegal hit? I’d like to see where in the rulebook it says that.
I think everyone forgets that in tackling you are supposed to lead with your shoulder. If Moncrease is going low to take out Thurmond with his shoulder, things like this happen, it is definitely not illegal or meant to injure.
by Mallrat92204 on Nov 16, 2010 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
Shit
That is so much worse than it seemed in person. Still, it all worked out for the ducks. They got to boo our concussed player, and the winning touchdown was thrown to a receiver being defended by Anthony’s replacement. Yay.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Ya know
It also knocked out the receiver (Tuinei) for the rest of the game.
I kinda doubt that the plan was to go completely into the guy so that both people get injured. It was a pick play, and it should have been called, but saying he went out of his way to intentionally hurt someone when he actually got hurt is a bit naive.
I didn't say he went out of his way to intentionally hurt someone
now, upon watching the video, it appears to me that he actually changes his trajectory to completely level Anthony, instead of trying to avoid him, but I’m not trying to ascribe a motive here. I doubt he was trying to give him a concussion.
Now, the ducks have a pretty robust recent history of taking dirty, cheap shots at our players and knocking a fair amount of them out of games, but I’m sure that’s just coincidental.
Fact remains: most duck fans heartily booed him, and the winning td was thrown to a receiver being defended by Anthony’s replacement. Well done!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I miss the old days when Cal fans and Oregon fans got along.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 14, 2010 8:23 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
I like Cal fans!
Last year at Autzen there were a number of really cool ones. And a few really smelly ones. But mostly cool ones.
It’s their own damned fault. If they hadn’t started winning Pac-10 titles and built their bandwagon, we’d still be buddies.
I get the feeling Oregon fans will take the bandwagoners and dirty play over being our brothers in suffering.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
We Cal fans aren’t helping any in the process. That and I’d make the same trade re bandwagon fans any day of the week.
Here’s my problem with the dirty label – it reeks of sore-loserism. I mean, I think the individual play in this post was dirty (or at least, the result was) but I don’t want to label an entire team dirty without seeing significantly more evidence.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 14, 2010 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wide receivers admitting to setting picks is a pretty damning indictment. You’re not supposed to hit the guy on a pick.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:00 PM PST up reply actions
Are we arguing that Oregon is dirty for cheating (i.e. intentionally setting illegal picks) or dirty because of Tuinei’s hit?
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
Intentionally setting illegal picks is the disease. Tunei’s hit is the symptom.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:03 PM PST up reply actions
Faking injuries and grabbing wide receivers is also illegal
but it happened a lot in that game. Tunei is not a dirty player. He’s a pretty soft spoken kid. No one likes to see anyone get injured and I’m sure that wasn’t what was supposed to happen.
Blount is a pretty nice guy from all accounts. I’m sure he didn’t mean to lose his temper and punch that Boise kid.
They both did illegal things and need to be punished.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
What proof do you have that the injuries were faked? That you saw them on TV?
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
One could say the same thing
About the illegal pick. What proof do you have that he went after another player with the intent to hit him? Or hurt him? because you saw it on TV?
Sometimes reasonable people can come to a reasonable conclusion based on evidence, even if it isn’t a smoking gun or a written affidavit.
He intended to hit Anthony because he was quoted as saying such. I don’t think he intended to hurt him.
But the difference is that I didn’t boo Tuinei after he got injured.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
Whuh?
Where’s the quote from Tuinei saying that?
Are you referring to the quote by Maehl, which wasn’t even about the play where Anthony went out?
Man, some people have really gone off the deep end about this. Imagining quotes, inventing some long and sordid history of Cal players being taken out by Oregon cheap shots…remember to recycle all that tinfoil when you’re done with it.
by grimc on Nov 15, 2010 7:40 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oregon players do have a robust history of cheap shots against Cal
there’s the Rosario kung-fu kick from 06, the late, low shot on Longshore that derailed our 07 season, the helmet to helmet hit after Riley slid by ward in 08, and now this illegal, cheap shot (not to mention the cheap shot on our punt returner that also wasn’t called). So yeah, there is plenty reason for us to call a spade a spade.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
the helmet to helmet hit after Riley slid by ward in 08
Riley was in a slide like Triple Rock was the first brewpub in the country.
I'm tellin' ya,
it ain’t. However, in the interest of allowing the healing to begin, I’ll pretend that it was.
Well son of a bitch
That fucker Bates lied to me. I stand corrected!
And to clarify to Ward hit: Riley was already down on the ground after diving forward when Ward hit him helmet to helmet…so, you are correct, Ward’s hit was actually dirtier than I originally said.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I wasn’t trying to make a point. I was just trying to figure it out.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
no, you are right though
I was definitely misremembering that play. My schlect!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Here’s the thing, norcalnick. Duck fans are on a Cal board saying that Tedford encouraged player injuries. If the Ducks who posted here wanted to be classy, they would take their win and leave well enough alone. Posting on htis board regarding a completely irrelevant topic to the outcome of the game is at best whiny and at worst, well, use your imagination.
Fuck anyone who doesn’t root for Cal.
/Looking at you DCTrojan
"Too much awesome on my feet."-Brian Wilson
"Time for the laser show, boys!"- Aubrey Huff
2010 World Series Champions San Francisco Giants
I have to believe that he secretly roots for us. Very secretly.
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the Farm, after they've seen Berkeley?
Not against SC or Oregon (family reasons), but otherwise I thought I was openly pro-Cal. Third on the list for no reason other than regrets about my misspent youth your collective charming company seems pretty fair.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
My brother went to Oregon.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
This.
Can’t we stop the fussin and a’fuedin?
Cal Football: I loved them once and they broke my heart. Let that be a lesson to you. Never love anything.
by CalBandGreat on Nov 14, 2010 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
I'm pretty sure most of the AtQers, esp the JShufelts, will be nice and normal
Winning creates bandwagoners and there are always going to be there who don’t know how to act.
8
That was when they were pot smoking hippies like us. Now they are pot smoking hippies under the mind control of Phil Knight.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
by The Wisdom Cow on Nov 15, 2010 8:13 AM PST up reply actions
Oddly enough...
…the current likely BCS opponent for Oregon is Auburn, who is downright proverbial for dirty play – ask anyone in the SEC about chop blocking and then hold your ears. And that’s even before taking Nick Fairley into account, who plays in a manner that Ric Flair thinks is underhanded…
"Well, if that ain't a show, I'll kiss your ass." - Gov. Jim Folsom Sr. (D-AL), 1948-52
While there’s no defending Tuinei on this play, and while you might be able to make the case that Chip Kelly’s teams make more use of illegal picks than most, I’m not sure you can really describe Oregon as a program that historically specializes in “cheap shots”. Can we find anecdotal examples from the past? Sure. But look hard enough, and you’ll find plenty of Golden Bears who’ve done the same over the years.
To be honest, I thought the hit by Costanzo a couple weeks ago vs. ASU was a bit over the top. Legal, sure, but unnecessarily aggressive given the game circumstances and the fact that Anthony was already headed out of bounds. It strikes me as hypocritical for us to celebrate Big Red DJ Mike’s violent hit while being so offended by Tuinei’s. Yes, one was legal and the other was not, but both hits unnecessarily endangered an exposed player.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Nov 14, 2010 8:35 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
good point
I missed that hit at the game. Yeah, it’s legal, but unnecessary.
Of course, there is a difference between legal and illegal, and designed and free form during a turnover.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
The only difference is Kelly’s team practice these cheap shots, whereas Costanzo’s action is an individual act—not planned, not practiced.
Kelly’s teams condone these acts to take advantage of them. Tedford’s teams will work to play the game clean.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s what I meant.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:11 PM PST up reply actions
No way
In fact, it looks like Paulson drives the other defender backwards, right in front of Tuinei. At the last second I think he tries to bail out and ends up body checking him.
Against the rules? Yes, as are all commonly used pick plays. But it wasn’t particularly dirty. If he had led with the crown of his helmet or put his shoulder pad into his head, it would be a dirty hit.
It appears the answer is no
I mean, you should debate in good faith, no?
It wasn’t particularly dirty to lay out a defenseless player, giving him a concussion? I think we have reached the end of this debate.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Come on...
I’ve watched that clip thirty times now and it’s even more apparent to me. Paulson drives a defender backwards, right across the face of Tunei. As soon as Paulson and the defender clear the area Tunei is on a collision course with the guy. He turns at the last second.
Do you really lay someone out by turning your body and hitting him with your unprotected side? That just makes no sense.
you're just seeing what you want to see
the guy lowers his shoulder and decks a defenseless player.
I think we have reached the end of this debate.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Do me favor....
Pause the clip right when Paulson drives the defender backwards and they are both in the lower right of the frame. Look at the direction of Tunei’s helmet. He honestly may not even have seen the guy coming based on the position of Paulson and the trajectory of the defender.
Now play it at full speed. There’s a half-second between when Paulson clears the area and the two collide.
ha, you're right though!
at the last second, instead of continuing on his current trajectory, he turns upfield…right into Anthony. He might have avoided him if he had continued on his original path.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I think this debate is over...
just kidding!
Tunei’s not a dirty player. Two guys run into each other. Sorry they both got hurt and missed the rest of the game.
Two guys run into each other.
I’m not sure if you’re blind, delusional, refuse to accept reality, or just plain fucking stupid.
Two guys run into each other? Try, “One guy is tracking his man and the other blindsides him at full speed with the intent on taking him out of the play.”
Fucking Ducktard.
Being an Old Blue means fearing any athletic success.
Just wanna let you know, there was a dude who was mugged in my town earlier today and he’s in critical condition. Just in case, you know, you wanted to go to Highland Hospital and boo him.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Do you have video evidence of all these other cheap shots that the Oregon WR's were dishing out?
Because I am pretty certain that was the only one I’ve seen all year. It was a bad play and most Oregon fans would completely agree with that, but this response is completely ridiculous.
by ppilot on Nov 14, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I have not watched enough Duck games to say whether it is a pattern, but I do know that the duck fans who choose to post on this board — a Cal board, mind you — are not saying that this was a reprehensible cheap shot.
Some of us have, but we haven’t been posting it on this site. This isn’t exactly the best place for a rational duck fan to be right now. I figured I would wait until the perpetual argument somehow shakes loose.
But for what it is worth, I am particularly embarrassed at people trying to defend Tuinei in that play. That wasn’t a clean hit.
I have my exceptions to the article and comments here, but I don’t want to get caught in this rather silly back-and-forth debate.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
What about this rather silly back and forth debate?
YOU SMELL BAD!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Have I said that you’re the best Duck fan? Why couldn’t you or your clones come to Berkeley? Why did you outsource your fans to USC?
In other words, Go Bears!
Still reading this blog, FYI.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
And considering the number of Indians with whom I work, I’m not completely convinced that I’m getting the full story here.
After all, it’s well known that I am just a figurehead being used to cover up the slow retribution against the UK and the US via help desk chaos.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Sometimes the obvious answer is the hardest to see.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
You’re my favorite DC Trojan, for what it’s worth.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
He wrote, putting the knife squarely between the shoulderblades.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Also, this thing will pass. By Wedned, everybody will wanna talk Stanfraud. And years from now, we’ll allsit at the blog old folks home drinking an ice cold lemonade reminiscing about those great flame wars of the past.
“Nobody fights these days the way we used to! Remember when I said you smelled!”
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 15, 2010 9:09 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
But I wanna talk about the Furd now :(
"Remember the Maine! TO HELL WITH STANFORD!"
by CruzinBears on Nov 15, 2010 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
Oh yeah, I didn't mention your right tackle holding Kendricks for most of the game
And only getting called for it once.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 9:19 PM PST up reply actions
teaching to hold and laying a guy out on a pick is not even close to the same , number 69 on Oregon was holding all day long
Outcomes are not the same
No, it’s not OK for a defender to hold a WR or O-lineman. However, they inevitably happen and we don’t pay (that much) attention when they get missed by officials. Currently, it seems that the argument is that pick plays are different from the aforementioned illegalities because they can result in SEVERE INJURY.
Seriously, he should really needs to be more caution when he runs into some guy trying to purposefully lay him out on an illegal play.
It was obvious his concussion was a fake. He looked over to the sideline before the play!!!!
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
oh by the by
if you guys care to look, you’ll find a video within the string of videos posted along with the youtube video of Tunei’s hit on Anthony. It’s the video of a UVA player taking a horrible cheap shot at a BC player. It’s at the very end of the string of videos. I would say that one was pretty bad.
What did i tell you...didn't I say they would win? Yeah that's right I did didn't ? Wait.. what? They LOST?!?!?
Every once in awhile I get a little envious of Oregon; the fanbase/stadium experience, the cheerleaders, the crazy offense and the recent success is all impressive.
But then I realize I don’t want a d-bag coach who wears a visor and who runs program full of cons.
I’ll take Coach Tedford and the 8ish win seasons if it’s the only way.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
by carp on Nov 14, 2010 9:39 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
Awww
You sound like an OSU Beaver fan.
flyduckfly is full of compliments today :-)
Fair enough
I’ll leave you to commiserate.
For the record, I was truly impressed with Cal’s defense. That was a very hard fought game.
If any of you make it to Autzen next year, I hope you have a good time.
You sound like an Oregon Duck fan.
(That’s not a compliment.)
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:53 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
You know who I know that wears a visor?
My Grandma. That is all.
recd
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 14, 2010 11:52 PM PST up reply actions
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Here's what Oregon fans are thinking
“Evacuate, in our moment of triumph?”
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
Here's the thing..
It’s not just this one play. Oregon has a history. 2006 Dante Rosario Kung Fu?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoF1GYRKQgE
Not to mention all the other crap that goes on at Oregon. Let’s not forget:
If it were one isolated incident, perhaps you could debate it. But this seems to be the sort of thing that’s allowed (encouraged) there.
With that said, I don’t know if I’d call it illegal. It’s more like watching Hines Ward play. Definitely dirty.
Everything you said throughout the post (and you said a lot) has just been undermined. Congrats.
by dchu on Nov 14, 2010 10:17 PM PST up reply actions 7 recs
Hey,
if you want to pull the Blount card, I can get snarky.
that whole thing was an embarrassment and I’m on the record as saying Blount should have been let go.
but, since this whole thread centers around “cheap shots” we have a special place of hatred for BSU who are the ultimate cheap shot artists. Having lost Masoli to a concussion two years ago and nearly losing Ed Dickson to a helmet to helmet by BSU safeties we’re not exactly fans.
Gotta be fair here
That WAS great television. No one was seriously injured, so we can have a laugh about it, but I don’t know of too many Ducks that consider the punch acceptable.
Once a duck has a few beers, they’ll usually talk playfully about the Blount punch. It’s not something you can embarrass them about anymore.
It’s just become one of those things that we were so ashamed of, really – it was one of the lowest points in our school’s fandom life. But now, it’s one of those things you just have to laugh about.
Not laugh out of encouragement or endorsement, but laugh because the whole thing was ridiculous.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
and so out of character!
It’s not like Oregon was a contender for the Fulmer Cup, after all…
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I looked up how we got those Fulmer Cup points, who was this “Masoli” kid? Is he related to that awful QB at Ole Miss?
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
weird that Cal was the team to choke, since LaMike…
I guess I have to shelve that joke until next year. And believe you me, we will find a new, creative way to choke next year.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
That was exactly my thought. All his talk about how the Ducks and their fans are on the high road, is completely undermined by this comment about how much everyone must just love watching a Duck player sucker punch somebody.
How ya gonna keep 'em down on the Farm, after they've seen Berkeley?
I laughed. But I’m sure this only serves to confirm people’s biases about… well, whichever group I belong to that you don’t like.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Probably.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Surely there are not still any questions about me being one.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I knew you weren’t a USC fan!
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
I AM AN SC FAN! I AM AN SC FAN!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Oh, you are in such denial!
It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-A-L-I-T-T-L-E-T-I-G-H-T-A-T-T-H-E-H-E-E-L"
Am not!
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
I need an adult! I need Andre Carter!
Wait, that’s not going to work here.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
"When the seagulls follow the trawler, it's because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea"
Sure it will.
Please state the nature of your Cal fandom emergency.
Press 1 if you despair that we will ever reach the Rose Bowl.
Press 2 if you’re cramping up and need to be talking through the SOP for keeling over.
Press 3 if you’re lonely, so lonely, and just want someone to talk to.
Press 4 if you feel like confessing that you paid for players and feel just awful about it.
Press 5 if you feel like you’re being repressed for being a man and/or Scot and/or Trojan fan, and/or east coaster.
Press 6 if you really think we give a flying f!!ck.
Press 7 if you’re drunk enough to miss 6.
Press 8 if you’re confused why ‘2’ has some extra squigglies.
Press 9 if you want to return to the main menu.
Press 0 if you want us to thank you and come again.
Old Toothwrangler
Seriously…there’s nothing enjoyable about watching that. What dchu said x10000.
I had a random game on in the background earlier in the day on Saturday and I stopped a conversation mid-sentence when a player went down motionless…not to relish in the guy’s pain but out of concern. The mindset conveyed by your post is concerning (and very telling).
thank you for linking that
that’s the cheap shot from the 06 game I was referring to above.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
BTW the fake injury argument
is complete BS.
Look. Oregon was not trotting down the field like they were against all their other opponents. IF THEY WERE THEN THEY STILL WOULD’VE SCORED 50 POINTS. But, oh wait, they didn’t. No, it wasn’t because injuries stalled the WHOLE game. It’s because the Cal defense stopped them.
Or are you telling me that a few 30 second injury time was enough to stop your offense from scoring any more than they did. Really? If so, you guys do NOT belong at #1.
And, the final irony, is that you guys ran down the final 6 minutes of the game! You had NO CONFIDENCE that you could score and maintain the lead. You instead chose not to turn the ball over. It’s ironic that you have Thomas and the O-line staring at the sideline for instruction when really everyone knows they’re running the clock. And that’s a case where burning time actually made a difference in the game.
by freshfunk on Nov 14, 2010 10:08 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
No.
The fake injuries serve as a time out, allowing the defense to assess the offense without burning a time out. It also allows them to substitute.
We ran out the final 9.25 of the game. Because Cal couldn’t stop us, scoring was unnecessary.
scoring was unnecessary.
Sounds like my fraternity’s formal!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
Splitting hairs are we?
You seem to completely miss the first point. There was no need to fake it. You simply could not get through our defense. If you could, then what stopped you from scoring the rest of the game? It’s not like we took injuries and then the game was suddenly over.
Perhaps you conveniently shut it out of your mind but during all the other series where you had the ball and we did not have an injury, LaMichael James was shutdown. Your passing game was barely there and you couldn’t make any FGs.
Yes, it’s obvious why you ran out the final score. Because Kelly had no confidence that either: 1) you could score and maintain the lead or 2) your defense could maintain the lead if you turned the ball over. I don’t even know if Thomas threw or held onto the ball the final quarter.
It’s pretty pathetic that your tactic to win is "scoring is unnecessary" with 9 minutes to go in the game with a 2 point difference. Really? #1?
Running out the clock with the lead is a good strategy. Nothing pathetic about it, and it was too bad that we were not able to stop it.
Don't get me wrong.
The tactic, in itself, is fine. I have no problems with it.
I’m just saying that it’s ironic that they boo our players because they think we’re faking an injury to buy us some time as if that was what saved us and, how in the end, they had no confidence to win it other than burning time. Also, the charades.
In other words, why is it bad sportsmanship for us to use clock to our advantage when they used clock to theirs?
Consistently running for 4+ yards a carry to move all the way down the field in 9+ minutes is entirely legal. Faking an injury is not. Staying on the ground if you are feeling tightness seems within the rules, but I can understand the theatrics of dropping to the ground after looking to the sideline causing Ducks to make fun or question injuries. I cannot understand using that as a defense for booing Marc Anthony after he got taken out on a clearly dirty hit. That was just disgusting behavior from a whole lot of Ducks fans.
Return to my original post..
.. I don’t think we were faking injuries (except for that questionable one with Tipoti). Why? Because they weren’t exactly marching down the field and scoring anyway. How many injuries did we have all game? 4? 5? How much time did that take up? 3 minutes? 5 minutes?
Where were they the other 50+ minutes of the game? With the speed of the Oregon offense, they can score in less than 1 minute flat. Or were the injuries (fake or not) enough to stop their offense the rest of the game? Were the injuries (fake or not) enough to turn the game?
It’s bogus. Completely bogus. Even if it is fake, you’re ranked #1. How does that really stop you?
You’re assuming the injuries are faked. I’m not. Given Oregon’s conditioning and rapid style of play, I think it’s conceivable our players were cramping. We don’t play or practice at this same pace. Also we had Hagan and Anthony go out the 1st half never to come back. Those are our star d-backs!
I think you need to reread my post (not to mention take a look at my user name, and guess where my allegiances lie), rather than the other way around. I was initially just responding to the running out the clock thing, which weakened your argument.
While watching the game (from the student section), I did not notice faking of injuries. But I have seen replays of players going down, and the point I made was that Tipoti and hill dropping to the ground after looking at the sideline is pretty questionable. I don’t doubt that they were gassed, but it still looks ridiculous. I don’t think any of it changed the flow of the game either, since our defense was in control for pretty much until the final ten minutes. But comparing this behavior to a long drive is nonsensical.
Also, what do Hagan and Anthony have to do with this at all? Booing either of them was idiotic and poor sportsmanship (a point I was trying to make). The way you bring it up in this post makes it seem like I suggested otherwise.
Even if the faking injures was true – and there was one time where I considered it but mostly (read: 99% of the time) legit – it’s an excellent strategy. It doesn’t hurt anyone physically unlike the pick or (as linked above) Rosario’s kick or the Oregon DB who took out Longshore’s knee or Ward’s helmet to helmet that knocked Riley out in 2008. The list goes on
In other words, Go Bears!
Splitting hairs are we?
You seem to completely miss the first point. There was no need to fake it. You simply could not get through our defense. If you could, then what stopped you from scoring the rest of the game? It’s not like we took injuries and then the game was suddenly over.
Perhaps you conveniently shut it out of your mind but during all the other series where you had the ball and we did not have an injury, LaMichael James was shutdown. Your passing game was barely there and you couldn’t make any FGs.
Yes, it’s obvious why you ran out the final score. Because Kelly had no confidence that either: 1) you could score and maintain the lead or 2) your defense could maintain the lead if you turned the ball over. I don’t even know if Thomas threw or held onto the ball the final quarter.
It’s pretty pathetic that your tactic to win is “scoring is unnecessary” with 9 minutes to go in the game with a 2 point difference. Really? #1?
Avi, I'm in agreement with you... but I don't know that this post was really necessary
8
by Rishi on Nov 14, 2010 10:32 PM PST reply actions 4 recs
And in this
I totally agree with Rishi.
I don’t want to be tagged as a sore loser, whatever the merits of this pick. In the final analysis, its a bad hit (illegal or not) that did not decide the game. End of story. Avi baby, you shouldn’t have done it.
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
Heh, it might have had some impact
Say that call is made and we get offensive PI. Then Cal might’ve been able to defend the Maehl TD better (I believe Hill was picked there) b/c Oregon might’ve been hesitant to set that pick.
But yes, it didn’t really have an effect on the game. But that wasn’t the point of the post. The point of this post was to emphasize that defensive players aren’t getting the treatment offensive players do in getting calls for illegal hits.
Come on, read the title!
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 10:43 PM PST up reply actions
None of our posts are necessary
Except for yellow fever’s. We’d be in the dumps without him!
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
You know what I mean; I’ll say it straight up — I personally don’t think it’s a good idea to post this up. And I’m saying this as someone who agrees with your main point re: rules favouring the offensive players.
8
For once I’m in full agreement with Rishi. Surprising coming from me as I’m not the shining light of cool headedness but this post was unnecessary. It seemed solely to anger Duck fans.
In other words, Go Bears!
Duck fans are 10-0 and on the way to Glendale. If they’re angry, it reflects more on them than on us.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
This.
Especially when you’re getting called out on BearInsider. I agree with the broad point but there’s little good that can come from this discussion other than inciting flame wars. Granted what came has been pretty civil as war as interweb flamewars go, but I don’t see the need for it. I understand you have your the blogger hat, the Cal fan hat, and the sports columnist/analyst hat from SBNation… but when you have that last one, the standard you’re held to changes.
Rishi, I’m in complete agreement with you. It’s a big leap to jump from calling a play dirty to an entire program. I’m not comfortable making distinction.
or even
a dirty play to a dirty player. I don’t know anything about this guy, except that he took a cheap shot at Anthony. He wasn’t running that route by choice: Kelly designed the play. He lowered his shoulder and really let Anthony have it, but just because that play was dirty, it doesn’t mean he’s a dirty player in general.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Tell you what...
I think Arizona and OState should work this new tactic into their flowchart: on the first play from scrimmage, wait until Oregon sets up on the ball, then have everyone on defense fall over and grab their right knee and roll around. Once the offense sees this and looks around, have the entire sideline follow suit. Hilarious.
Also, Kelly is a smug fuck. I can never stand watching his condescending interviews.
California Golden Blogs! "Woeojuwejhdjwe!!!"... But what does it MEAN?!
This would rock, I’d die laughing. I’m one Duck fan that thinks the hoorah over faked injuries is redonkulous. It hasn’t slowed us down yet. Awesome defense, yes. Faked injuries, no.
But I don’t get the Kelly-hate. I’ve always disliked the stupid questions sports reporters feel compelled to ask, and I hate the stupid boilerplate coach-speak that comes out in response. I think Kelly is a non-nonsense guy that feels the same way and is just going to call it like he sees it. I think it’s refreshing, but maybe my glasses are tinted green.
Nonsense questions like, “hey, you guys usually score 50+ points a game, but you were only held to 15, can you elaborate on what happened?”
“No.”
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 5:46 PM PST up reply actions
let's be honest
the guy is a dick. Oregon fans (understandably) love him because their team is so good. Other fans don’t love him because he’s a dick, and also, partially, because he’s winning.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I hate OSU, but Riley is not a dick. Tedford is not a dick. From what I’ve seen of Harbaugh and Kelly, those guys are dicks. Harbaugh moreso than Kelly, though. Harbs is in his own league of dickishness.You don’t have to be a dick to win.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I honestly don't see how people want to fashion him an asshole. The only people he's a dick to are the shit for brains reporters in the local media.
He was only five-foot-three but girls could not resist his stare... Chip Kelly never got called an asshole.
While everyone is here...
Anyway I can change my name????
Try sending an email to support@sbnation.com. We can’t do it, but they should be able to help you out.
Old Toothwrangler
Apparently I've angered our site members by deciding to discuss a controversial topic
This is disappointing. I expected more guts from our community, but apparently we all want to drink wine and ignore the fact that multiple Oregon players have injured or deliberately gone out of their way to hurt Cal players over the past half-decade.
I’m sorry for sticking up for our players. I won’t do it again.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 14, 2010 11:54 PM PST reply actions
Avi, I think people are just tired of arguments and flame wars. And frankly, I am too. You don’t need to agree with that opinion, but it would be nice if you respected it.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
I don’t get this. If this was the Big Game we lost and it was the Furd we were complaining about, NO ONE would complain about a post like this. Just because we like our friends at AtQ doesn’t mean we can’t overlook the dirtiness of the team’s program.
We have a thousand comment flame wars in the DBD daily on the dumbest subjects, and when we get to football everyone says “I don’t wanna argue.” This disappoints me.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 12:07 AM PST up reply actions
Nothing is going to come out of this argument. No one is going to suddenly change their opinions. People are just going to hunker down and believe (even more fervently) in their original opinion. So, this incessant back and forth gets tiring because it doesn’t accomplish anything.
Not many posts on the Internet accomplish anything.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 12:13 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly. I get no enjoyment out of this flame war (and I suspect others feel similarly). If it doesn’t accomplish anything, and you don’t get any pleasure out of it, it seems perfectly reasonable to want it to end.
I can’t stand 95% of what happens on the DBD, and it doesn’t accomplish anything. But you don’t see me going on there telling commenters to stop what they’re doing.
The fact that people are telling me I shouldn’t write about a topic I’m passionate about makes me not want to write for them anymore. The hypocrisy from our members is baffling.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 12:22 AM PST up reply actions
I think you’re generalizing. I think there are some people who are fine with your post, and others who aren’t. The ones who are fine with it aren’t gonna post “I’m fine with this post” because their lack of comment is approval in and of itself. Don’t worry about it too much dude. Everyone has a right to get fired up. Honestly I’m just as pissed as you. I’m fine with our teams’ skill getting knocked, but when our players get called cheaters by spoiled fans, it just rubs me the wrong way.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah I probably am
But seriously, the moralizing I’m getting rubs me the wrong way. I can’t point out when the other team does dirty things because they’re irritated that a few Duck fans yapping at us? To be diplomatic, FUCK THAT.
(The same thing happened when Duke eliminated us in part to their dirty bag of tricks last year. I called them out and I got the same smug attitude from some of our commenters. Rubbed me the wrong way then, rubs me the wrong way now.)
But it’s a good perspective you bring about the silent majority. I’ll take that to heart.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Nov 15, 2010 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
And honestly, I like the direction your title implied this piece was going in. I also am a little pissed at the double standard that glorifies the skill guys while ignoring that head to head contact is not always the defenders fault. Some NFL RB (I think it was Adrian Peterson?) said there was no way in hell he was going to stop lowering his head. Then collisions are going to happen, and the defenders will get blamed even if they’re not solely culpable. But anyway, moving from that topic (the double standard) to a rip job on the entire Oregon program isn’t fair, in my opinion. That’s where I’m taking offense.
by boomtho on Nov 15, 2010 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
“In your heart, you know he is right” – the precursor to the “silent majority”.
I missed most of the game (caught some of the second half on a creaky internet feed), and I missed this play and the instances of so-called fake injuries. I read the comments on this site to get a sense of what happened in the game. And there was a lot of moralizing there, mostly about this play and the instances of so-called fake injuries. So, I was interested to see the clip and here an assessment. What I’d like even more is to see more analysis (things like facts, context, and relevance) and less rhetoric (things like cable news and talk radio). You have great analytic skills: use for good, not for evil. (How’s that for more moralizing?)
Jason Hafemeister
Well I’m not gonna go so far as to say it’s a majority, but just to take the population to be as heterogeneous as a population will be.
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 10:39 AM PST up reply actions
I have no experience with the guys at AtQ so I have no opinion of them, neither good nor bad. I just think this discussion was better suited for the bar after the game. I don’t think there’s enough evidence here to point to institutional sanctions against Oregon. Maybe with more evidence the point could be made, but by going half way it just inflames the opposition.
I’m cool with it =P
oregon fan: ALL teams have faked injuries against us!!!
cal fan: and you’ve blown all of those teams out?
oregon fan: yes.
cal fan: but you didn’t blow cal out?
oregon fan: no.
cal fan: but the faked injuries were our secret ingredient?
oregon fan: yes.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 15, 2010 12:01 AM PST up reply actions
No, I think this was a good article to post, and I agree with the thrust of it. If the refs miss something, they need to be called on it. But I have to agree with some posters that it is mostly an enforcement issue with the refs. Oregon likes to take cheap shots. It’s something that has become institutionalized there. The refs need to call them on it, but they are number one, so they will get A LOT of leeway. It’s unfortunate, but true.
And all the bullshit about Cal players faking injury is bullshit. And completely irrelevant to the illegal pick. Oregon bandwagon fans be trolling.
I did not have a problem with your post, as the play seems like a fine time to make a point about defensive players not getting proper protection from the rules. I think your point about penalizing the entire Oregon program is kind of weak. There have been a few plays by Oregon players in recent years that stick out as being pretty bad, but I don’t think that suggesting it is institutional is merited. That is the only real complaint that I can make, but even that is pretty slight. I think an actual discussion of why the rules are applied differently might have been interesting, but it did not turn out that way.
I think your point about penalizing the entire Oregon program is kind of weak.
I agree with this. Nothing like that is going to happen (there’s no precedence). What should happen is the refs should, you know, flag these hits during the game. I understand that they missed the pick because it was designed to be behind the ref (classy, Chip), but taking out our punt returner? Come on.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I think this post was fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion and the double standard is annoying. This made a great point, but I think people missed the point and focused on some of the smaller parts of the post.
If you want to get your point across without creating huge flame wars, then there are a few ways you could accomplish this:
1. Take out an editorial angle. Instead of “Cheap shot shows preferential treatment for O Players” make it “Does this call in Saturday’s game illustrate a preferential treatment?” Make it an open ended question rather than a “This is the way things are” situation. then, the focus will be more on the general football situation than this specific situation, which is what I think you were trying to focus on.
2. Avoid using controvrsial terms, such as “Cheap Shot.” Especially in the title itself. It was a cheap shot, I think we can all agree. But thats a controversial statement and its only going to inflame tensions. Then, people dont read the rest of your story. They just focus on a few words.
Avi, you know that everybody here loves the work that you do. And you have free reign to write about pretty much anything and everything. Nobody is going to tell you how to write your posts. But if you are confused or concerned about how people seemed to “miss the point” there are other ways to frame it that will get the point across.
Believe me, my entire job consists of crafting ways to tell people to go fuck themselves that actually make them MORE likely to want to work with me. I know how difficult it can be to walk that tightrope.
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 15, 2010 7:28 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
A more objective and rational title would have been:
“Cheating Whoregon Cheap Shot Artists Who Are Instructed to Headhunt by the Dirty Chip Kelly Show Bias for Offensive Players, and Pete Carroll Stands Idly By Doing Nothing to Combat this Nasty Cheating”
Costs STILL assessed against Twist
by CALumbus Bear on Nov 15, 2010 7:50 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Dollars to donuts, Pete Carroll taught Chip Kelly everything he knows!
CGB's Jimmy Carter
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
I'm cool with the post too...
Although I’d note that I think Cal gets most of their injuries in OSU games. OSU games always seems to result in someone going down from our side.
As an OSU fan I’ve hated seeing this the past two years. Seeing Best and Riley go down wasn’t cool and both injuries were scary. That said, you gotta admit there’s a football nature to both injuries, meaning OSU players are trying to make plays, not just knock someone out, hurt someone or do something dirty. Right?
I think the Best one was a bit freakish, but the Riley hit, it looked like the OSU player went RIGHT for the knees.
by atomsareenough on Nov 15, 2010 5:55 PM PST up reply actions
Clone?
I went back pretty far, but still couldn’t find a picture of him when he was young, so it is hard to tell if Chip Kelly is really just a clone of him or not. The personality is screaming same person, though. If anyone has a picture of Dick Cheney before the dark side drained him, I’d like to compare it to Chip.
"A new day will dawn for those who stand long." - Led Zeppelin
Pick
The pick play is in every football playbook. A pick play is when 2 receivers cross paths with the hope that defenders and receivers will get in each others way thereby allowing a receiver to run free. Any contact by receiver on defender before the pass is touched is illeagal. Tuinei’s play was illeagal and should have been flagged. As a duck I’ve never seen such a blatant illegal pick. It’s not the way it’s taught or usually performed since it’s 15 yards. Bad miss by refs. On the other side, anyone watching the video of the injuries can see they’re fake. Actually funny if you remove the homerism. Reverse which teams were faking and picking and each side would be reversing their opinions. Go ducks and thanks bears for your fandom. It’s what makes it fun. And great game too.
by Autzy on Nov 15, 2010 9:34 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sigh, I like you Avinash, but you're better than this.
He was only five-foot-three but girls could not resist his stare... Chip Kelly never got called an asshole.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
GoldenBlogs' FAQ and Community Guidelines
Related FanPosts on California Golden Blogs
Related FanShots on California Golden Blogs
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recommended FanShots
Recent FanShots
I recorded the entire last out as Cal clinches the first ever PAC12 Softball Title! It was also a...
Pac-12 On SBN
Pacific Takes (Pac-12) NORTH AddictedToQuack: (Oregon)
UW Dawg Pound: (Washington)
CougCenter: (Washington State)
BuildingTheDam: (Oregon State)
Rule Of Tree: (Stanford)
CaliforniaGoldenBlogs: (Cal)
SOUTH
BruinsNation: (UCLA)
ConquestChronicles: (USC)
HouseOfSparky: (ASU)
Arizona Desert Swarm: (Arizona)
TheRalphieReport: (Colorado)
Block U: (Utah)
Golden Bears Football Schedule
| Fresno St. | Sat 09/03 | W 36 - 21 |
@
Colorado
|
Sat 09/10 | W 36 - 33 |
| Presbyterian | Sat 09/17 | W 63 - 12 |
|
@
Washington
|
Sat 09/24 | L 23 - 31 |
|
@
Oregon
|
Thu 10/06 | L 15 - 43 |
|
USC
|
Thu 10/13 | L 9 - 30 |
|
Utah
|
Sat 10/22 | W 34 - 10 |
|
@
UCLA
|
Sat 10/29 | L 14 - 31 |
|
Washington St.
|
Sat 11/05 | W 30 - 7 |
|
Oregon St.
|
Sat 11/12 | W 23 - 6 |
|
@
Stanford
|
Sat 11/19 | L 28 - 31 |
|
@
Arizona St.
|
Fri 11/25 | W 47 - 38 |
|
@
Texas
|
Wed 12/28 | L 10 - 21 |
