OC Discussion Part II: How do Oregon Fans Feel About Andy Ludwig?
(via HawaiianBear)
"MY GOODNESS."
After hearing a Ute weigh in on his feelings about his old offensive coordinator, we turn to Duck country. Addicted to Quack seemed a little too happy to voice their opinion of their experiences with Andy Ludwig from 2002-2004. Perhaps some residual bitterness? I didn't really know whether they were serious or not. Maybe they felt like they could rib us.
As it turns out, they were quite serious. Deadly serious. I guess when you follow up Jeff Tedford and Urban Meyer, that's how it goes.
The interview is below. Our questions are in bold.
He definitely underachieved. He had Kellen Clemens as his QB, Demetrius Williams and Sammy Parker as receivers, Tim Day as TE, an underrated Terrence Whitehead at running back, and solid O-line. Unfortunately, his offenses just didn't produce. What's odd about Ludwig's time at Oregon, while his yards per game increased each year, his points per game plummeted.
2) What type of plays did Ludwig run at Oregon that might be new to the Golden Bears offense? What were your favorites, trick or otherwise, that utilized his players in the best ways? What plays did he run that made you tear your hair out?
Nothing really. Moving from Tedford to Ludwig was like having your playbook contract. One thing specifically I liked was getting tight ends involved, which seemed to be lacking quite a bit with the talent we had at the position, while we saw a great deal of runs up the middle, which was more than frustrating.
3) Ludwig was also the quarterbacks coach. How well did he develop QBs during his tenure with the Ducks, especially Kellen Clemens? What were the improvements you saw with Clemens during Ludwig's time there?
This was one problem, is that we really didn't see improvement in any of Ludwig's QBs. While completion percentages for QBs went up, that happened at a sacrifice to yards per attempt, which in my opinion led to the anemic 2004 results. Was this the QBs fault? I'm not really sure. The playbook became much more conservative in 2004, which is born out in the stats. Yards per attempt dropped by a almost a yard along, which led to less explosiveness, but with a slightly increased completion rate and a slight interception rate drop. In the move from 2004 to 2005, even with to sophomores taking the reigns near the end of the season, yards per attempt went up, INT rate dropped, touchdown rate increased, and completion rate as well.
I'm not exactly sure what to make out of all of this, and maybe we were simply spoiled by Tedford's magic, but Ludwig just didn't lead to the QB growth we had come to expect.
That was one of the best quarterbacking games of the season. But looking a bit deeper into the numbers, we can see that it wasn't all that unusual. Though TD's were high, completion rate and yards per attempt were nothing to be too excited about. And in the 2nd half, Oregon managed a pathetic 44 yards, 36 of that on the final, futile drive. But in a lot of ways, that was indicative of the 2004 team. They were few games they were out of, but when it was really necessary, they had a tough time getting the ball in the end zone.
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Aren’t short accurate passes were exactly what characterized much of the best OB’d team in the Tedford Cal regime (that’d be 2004 AR led team)? Or am I just over emphasizing the epic USC loss?
Think you’re right. Aaron didn’t really throw many deep balls that season, only when he needed to and when the opportunity was open. His accuracy was his biggest weapon in college (and as it turns out, in the pros).
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by Avinash Kunnath on Aug 27, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions
Here is your new playbook--
1st down—run up the middle
2nd down—run up the middle
3rd down—screen or draw.
That’s about it. He was called Andy Puntwig for a reason.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
With Cal’s personnel, that ironically might be the best playcalling possible in many situations.
Of course, predictability is bad.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
predictability was my biggest issue with him
Javhid best is awesome. But if you know exactly where he is going 75% of the time, makes it a bit easier to defend him.
Though it was on third down where Ludwig really ruffled me.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 27, 2009 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions
Total predictability is bad, but total unpredictability is not much better. The Bill Walsh 49ers offense was pretty damn predictable, and the old wishbone offenses from the days of the Big 8 were entirely predictable. But they worked because they were efficient. Efficiency and execution is far more important than play calling.
Football is not partly—but only partly—a chess match between opposing coaches trying to outguess or outthink each other. Regardless of what the defense is expecting, a “run up the middle” on first down is a perfectly fine play call if your linemen execute their blocks and your back finds the hole and evades his defender. Moreover, that “run up the middle”, even if it results in no gain, becomes a great play call if it reveals a tendency in the defense that can later be exploited for a big play.
Sincere question to the Oregon fans: Without the tired complaint about play calling, how efficient was the offense under Ludwig? When plays failed, why did they fail? Did someone miss his block or blow his assignment? Did the QB simply make an inaccurate or ill-advised pass? Or did a talented defender simply beat his man to blow up an otherwise well-designed play?
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
typo
please delete the “not” in the first sentence of the second paragraph.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions
Look
What does it say that nobody has been happy with him everywhere he’s been. He was run out of town. Utah was 13-0 last year, and their fans were still giddy that he left.
At Oregon, it wasn’t this case of genius playcalling that the players screwed up that you seem to be fixed on. Since Bellotti took over as coach in ‘95, we’ve had many OCs—Borges, Koetter, Tedford, Crowton, Kelly. Ludwig sticks out like a sore thumb. His three year stretch at Oregon featured easily the worst Oregon offenses of the Bellotti era—all those OCs, and he’s the only one who didn’t produce. He had the players—Clemens, Parker, Whitehead, Adam Snyder, Tim Day, George Wrighster. Those were all NFL guys who produced under either Tedford or Crowton, but were stagnant under Ludwig.
Its true that predictable doesn’t always mean bad, but Ludwig was both predictable and inefficient. Even things that didn’t work were run to failure over and over again. The rest of the offensive staff—Campbell, Greatwood, Zoumboukas—has been the same all of Bellottis tenure. And those other OCs did more with far less (those guys were winning games with QBs like Ryan Perry-Smith, Jason Maas, and Tony Graziani). And our defense is never very good. The only variable that is different was Ludwig.
Our three worst seasons in 20 years, and Ludwig’s offense was the only variable. Bellotti is a super loyal guy, and Bellotti ran him out of town. See what we’re getting at.
We don’t wish you any ill will (except when you play us), and maybe Ludwig has grown as a coach since his time here. But his time here was putrid.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 27, 2009 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions
What does it say that nobody has been happy with him everywhere he’s been. He was run out of town. Utah was 13-0 last year, and their fans were still giddy that he left.
If Utah fans are sincerely giddy that he left town following last year’s perfect season, it tells me that Utah fans are idiots.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions
Everyone hates “run up the middle.” Typical lay football fans want to see double reverses, trick plays, and hail marys all day long………. woo!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
we don't hate run up the middle
we hate it when its called 40 times a game.
You can live in denial all you want. Maybe he’ll pan out for you. Maybe he won’t. He didn’t for us.
We weren’t bitching about Borges, or Kotter, or Tedford, or Crowton, or Kelly. They got the job done. Ludwig didn’t, plain and simple. Trying to insult us isn’t going to make things better.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 27, 2009 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions
I’m not living in denial. I have no opinion about Ludwig. My point, which to any neutral eye was apparent that you missed until you clarified things with “we hate it when its called 40 times a game”, was that typical college football fans want the exotic flair plays all day long.
And I’m not insulting you. But if you want to think that I am, go ahead and live your fantasy. I’m not going to stop you.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I’d still rather live in denial than in Oregon…
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
As much as I’ve enjoyed these two posts, I also am inclined to discount them because I just don’t trust any fan’s assessment of the job being done by an assistant coach—the OC, especially.
I think thoughtful fans are, potentially, very well equipped to critique the play of individual players. We can observe them in action on the playing field. But we don’t spend any time in team meetings or at practice, nor do we have any opportunity to observe—or even have outlined for us—a team’s game plan. The best we can do is make inferences based on our often-selective memories of an accumulated body of work.
Now, over time, it might become rather easy to conclude that certain units of a football team consistently perform well, while others do not. Thus, it seems reasonable for most Cal fans to think Ron Gould is great and Pete Alamar, not so much. But when it comes to the OC, we tend to be tripped up by every armchair quarterback’s favorite activity: second-guessing play calling. Nine times out of ten, I believe, that “terrible play call” we believe we saw, was instead a problem of poor execution and/or one or more players simply getting beaten by their talented opponents. Likewise, we tend to be myopic in our assessment of play calling, not seeing the bigger picture of how it fits within the larger game plan to set up something later. The only person who I believe can give an honest assessment of the OC, then, is the head coach himself.
I understand why Oregon fans are so down on Ludwig; I’m a bit more bewildered by Utah fans, though, coming as they are off a perfect season. Nonetheless, I remain very excited about Ludwig’s prospects at Cal because, based on everything we’ve read so far, he and Tedford are on the same page in a way that hasn’t existed in Berkeley since the Cortez era. Finally, it seems JT has a guy he can trust.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 9:21 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
the "knowledgeably ill-informed" as I call them
But when it comes to the OC, we tend to be tripped up by every armchair quarterback’s favorite activity: second-guessing play calling. Nine times out of ten, I believe, that "terrible play call" we believe we saw, was instead a problem of poor execution and/or one or more players simply getting beaten by their talented opponents. Likewise, we tend to be myopic in our assessment of play calling, not seeing the bigger picture of how it fits within the larger game plan to set up something later. The only person who I believe can give an honest assessment of the OC, then, is the head coach himself.
Basically, anybody who ever complains about “predictable” play-calling has yet to surpass the lowest order of football acumen. These people also commonly suffer from the why-don’t-we-ever-fake-a-punt syndrome.
There’s a huge difference between the two…because there is such a thing as predictable play-calling. If the defense knows what’s coming, they have a higher chance of stopping it. That’s all that “predictable” means.
by HolmoePhobe on Aug 27, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
There is no such a thing as “predictable play-calling” in D-1 football, only (false) tendencies. But exploiting tendencies is a two-way street. In as much as the D seeks to defense a play based on prediction or tendency, the offensive coordinator counter-acts that reaction with a different play out of the same formation or specific personnel. This predictability, or more precisely, the illusion of predictability, is the modus operandi of every offensive coordinator. If there is no predictability, then the OC cannot match strengths against a defense and its weaknesses (if they don’t know what you’re bringing to the field, how do you expect to know how they are to react?).
When everything works and the team wins big, “predictable play-calling” does not exist in the mind of the fan because it is not an issue. When it doesn’t work and the team loses, it becomes a sorry, overly-simplified excuse deployed by many fans, then and only then does it become an “issue.”
by ttgiang15 on Aug 27, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
In as much as the D seeks to defense a play based on prediction or tendency, the offensive coordinator counter-acts that reaction with a different play out of the same formation or specific personnel.
Except when the offensive coordinator doesn’t call a different play, but rather calls the very play that the “D is seeking to defend based on prediction or tendency”. That’s the definition of predictability. If the defense is able to stop an offensive play from succeeding because they correctly anticipated what was coming, that means the play was predictable.
I realize that it gives your ego a boost to sneer about how dumb other fans are and how much better you understand play-calling, but unfortunately that doesn’t change the meaning of words in the English language.
I realize that it gives your ego a boost to sneer about how dumb other fans are
…
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Aug 27, 2009 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions
Could be wrong here...
But I think what ttgiang is referring to is that a defense predicting the exact play the offense is running is rare. How do we know whether the defense predicted the exact play based on the results? They could be anticipating a play that might be similar in formula and function but not exactly what the offense was looking for.
So the playcall might not have been predictable, the result just might not have turned out as well as we expect. Fans seem to base “predictable playcalling” on results, not on process.
Chill with your ad hominem attacks. They don’t contribute anything.
Contact info for tips, inquiries, or if you want to chat: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Aug 27, 2009 9:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Chill with your ad hominem attacks. They don’t contribute anything.
Uh, he’s the one who said that anyone who disagrees with him has “yet to surpass the lowest order of football acumen”. Why don’t you tell him that?
He was making a generalized statement that was targeted at no one, whereas you made a specific statement targeted at him. The former could be construed as condescending, but not ad hominem, and he was fairly respectful and constructive in his response to you.
Contact if you want to chat: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Aug 28, 2009 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions
You don’t understand. HolmoePhobe had his feelings hurt and was just lashing out.
ALL HAIL SUPREME LEADER AVINASH!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
EAT DICK. FFFFFUUUUUUUCK.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 28, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions
I realize that it gives your ego a boost to sneer about how dumb other fans are and how much better you understand play-calling, but unfortunately that doesn’t change the meaning of words in the English language.
I realize I am now the pot and you’re the kettle, but can you please stop being a dickhead ALL the time? Or at least if you feel the need to be a dick, make us laugh while doing it? Seriously.
No, seriously.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Know you’re trying to help dude, but considering the recent history between you two, you’d probably be best sitting on the sidelines on this one.
Contact if you want to chat: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash Kunnath on Aug 27, 2009 10:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree 3% with your first 100 paragraphs. Yes, I went back and read them all.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I’ve got low standards. Anything over 2% is fine by me.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions
Dudwig
The fact that anybody would hire Dudwig makes me laugh.
He was a cancer on the program, and while technically “left”, he left the program before he could run out of town. He was subpar as a QB coach, and the offense was so predictable I could tell about 2/3s of the time what Oregon was going to run before the ball was snapped…If I can read it, better believe most DCs in the country could as well.
Everywhere that he has gone since, the people I’ve spoken with have said much of the same thing…even when Ludwig-coached teams do really well, Dudwig still only gets timid at best reviews.
Welcome to the Dudwig era at Cal, Bears fans…Give it a year or two, enjoy the underachievement. I know expectations are high in Berkeley, but I can guarantee right now on the sole basis that Dudwig is there to meddle and corrupt from within, Cal will consistently be an underachieving predictable wreck as long as this cancer is on your coaching staff.
Your point would be more strong if you didn’t use the ‘Dudwig.’ Maybe it’s just my personal pet peeve, but am I the only person annoyed by lame rhyming insults? LA Fakers, Hater Nation, forty whiners. They all strike me as a way of being dismissive without any real analysis.
Also: cancer? Even if he’s bad that strikes me as a strange description.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
Maybe it’s just my personal pet peeve, but am I the only person annoyed by lame rhyming insults?
Norcalnick? More like BOREcalnick!
"It’s spelled S-H-U-T-U-P-I-M-S-M-A-R-T-E-R-T-H-A-N-Y-O-U"
by JShufelt on Aug 27, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 5 recs
rec'd for making me laugh
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Aug 27, 2009 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Way to be a NorcalDick!!!!
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions
Embarrassing confession
My middle name is Richard. Kids pretty much had the insulting name handed to them on a silver plater.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
From the files of Dr. Seuss
Thing 1 and Thing 2 went on a picnic with Nick Dick
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 1:43 PM PDT up reply actions
I once went to a camp where the director was named Richard Less.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 2:37 PM PDT up reply actions
With a name like that, I’d have chosen a career other than directing a kids’ camp. What are the odds he was a substitute teacher during the school year, too?
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions
good. the odds are good.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions
“Is there an Asswipe Johnson here?”
“That’s Az-wee-pay!”
Costs assessed against Twist
by CALumbus Bear on Aug 28, 2009 7:19 AM PDT up reply actions
Does Ludwig excite me? No, not particularly. My hope is that Tedford and Ludwig will combine to be effective much in the way that they were effective together when they were both at Oregon.
If Cal’s offense is awesome this year, I doubt that it will be because of Ludwig’s influence. Conversely, if Cal’s offense falters, I doubt that all or even most of the blame will actually fall to Ludwig. Frankly, if Riley fails to develop that would probably fall more on Tedford.
Tedford still has too much involvement in the offense for any offensive coordinator to destroy offensive production in my opinion.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
Does Ludwig excite me? No, not particularly. My hope is that Tedford and Ludwig will combine to be effective much in the way that they were effective together when they were both at Oregon.
You mean that you hope Tedford will handle the Cal offense while Ludwig coaches at a completely different school?
I was under the impression that they were together for a time at Oregon. It appears I am mistaken! Tally ho to Wikipedia!!!
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
Oooh … Ducks are flocking to take their pecks at poor Ludwig.
Okay enough really awful avianisms. Once again, I’m not entirely convinced that Ludwig is either the right or wrong guy for this position. On the one hand, both Oregon and Utah fans seem to not be enamored with him – yet on the other, I have this strange, almost faith-based belief that Tedford knows what he’s doing. Though, the recent OCs make me think twice about the whole In Tedford I Trust thing.
Still, Ludwig must have some skill and knowledge and ability to have been in the game as long as he has. And, apparently, he had success at Fresno State. Perhaps Ludwig’s real shortcomings have more to do with following such impressive coaches (i.e. Tedford at Oregon, then having to come in after Meyer left in Utah) and facing some elevated expectations. And, with our recent OC history, that certainly shouldn’t be too big an issue.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
My outsider's, purely statistical, look at the Ludwig years in Oregon
I’m not trying to be a Ludwig apologist; I just am looking for more solid rationale why people are so down on him, and why, as a Cal fan, I should be more worried. I understand that, in terms of wins-and-losses, the Ludwig years were subpar in Eugene. But when I look at the game-by-game results—especially in ’02 and ’03—that appears to be more a product of crappy defense than ineffective offense.
Here’s what I get from looking at the teams’ offensive stats from 2000 through 2008.
Yards per play: The Ludwig years were lower than average at 5.3-5.4. This pales in comparison to 2001 and 2008 (both years well over 6), but is otherwise not much different from all the other years.
Yards per rush: Here’s where the Ludwig offense appears to be its worst, at less than 4 yards per carry. There were similar struggles pre- and post-Ludwig in 2000 and 2005, but most of this decade Oregon has had a very good run game averaging at least 5 yards a pop.
Yards per pass: Ludwig years no different that the rest. Not higher. Not lower.
Completion : 2002 was on the low side (52), but 2003 and 2004 were fine, and Tedford’s 2000 offense was actually the worst this decade.
Passes per interception: Ludwig years were middle of the road with one INT in roughly every three dozen passes. But they had the misfortune of following a very tough act— 2001’s ridiculously efficient 67 passes per interception.
Total Yards per game: Ludwig years were indeed the lowest—the only years this decade under 400 per game
Points per game: Not dramatically different from the rest of 2000 to 2006. But there was a declining trend—32 in 2002 to 27 in 2003 to 26 in 2004. In 2002 and 2003, inconsistency was the problem, as both seasons featured a lot of excellent offensive performances, but both were also flawed by a string of 3-4 games later in the season where the offense sputtered. In 2004, clearly the Ducks’ worst, this was more of a season-long problem, so no surprise Bellotti went in a different direction in 2005.
rushing % of total plays: Like the rest of the decade, very balanced at 52-53%, just like the Tedford years before. Only in the last four years have things changed, from the pass-heavy years of 2005 and 2006 to the rush-heavy years of 2007 and 2008.
My bottom line: It does appear that the Ludwig years were indeed Oregon’s worst this decade. I’m not sure the difference is quite as dramatic as some folks in Eugene seem to think, but I fully understand why Ludwig’s not a popular guy up there. The question then becomes, why? What caused Ludwig’s offenses to struggle.
My reading of the stats suggests that the primary problem with Ludwig’s offenses was the run game. The passing numbers are fine, no better or worse than his predecessors. But the Ducks simply couldn’t consistently run the ball during Ludwig’s three years. Was it poorly designed game planning? Offensive line problems? Running backs? I have no idea. Much, most, or even all of the blame maybe does deserve to be laid at Ludwig’s feet. But I’m not yet convinced that he isn’t being made a scapegoat for a bigger set of problems those teams may have had.
This does, however, raise a big question for us Bears fans. Can Cal run the ball consistently in 2009? We’ve been taking the run game for granted, focusing on worries more on Riley and his receivers. Maybe that shouldn’t be the case?
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 11:21 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Make that Completion % above, with 2002 at 52%.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Aug 27, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions
He was also Ludwig von Beethoven’s less successful, half-retarded stepchild.
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions
He also harrasses princesses...
Ludwig Von Koopa

by DavidsonBear on Aug 27, 2009 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Looks like Bowser narrowly edged out Travis Henry for most fertile.
ALL HAIL SUPREME LEADER AVINASH!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
LETSA GO!
What happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. What happens in California makes the world go round.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 27, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions
Don't forget, Tedford isn't just another coach who knows a little offense.
Tedford is an offensive guy. Period.
I have to take the comments in stride so while I’ll wait to pass judgment on Ludwin as the season progresses on my almighty armchair that gives me the authority to make coaching and player assessments, I think the key variable people might be overlooking is Tedford.
The offense isn’t just Ludwig. It’s Tedford+Ludwig. Ludwig was SPECIFICALLY hired b/c he complements Tedford’s offensive philosophy. Not because we needed more trickeration, unpredictability, less stagnant offense.
by nickle on Aug 27, 2009 11:48 AM PDT reply actions 2 recs
While Oregon and Utah fans' concerns are genuine, I don't think it matters for us
The reason being that in both cases Ludwig had to take over with his OWN playbook for two legends, Tedford and Meyer.
But at Cal he takes over for a nobody called Cignetti. Furthermore he isn’t using his own playbook as he’s using Tedford’s. You know the same coach he disastrously tried to follow at Oregon.
I think he’ll be fine.
In other words, Go Bears!

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