HoF Round of 32: Ashley Walker vs The Play Players
by Avinash on Jul 15, 2009 2:00 PM PDT
in Hall of Fame
66 comments
In our afternoon matchup we pit one of Cal women's greatest hoopsters against the most memorable moment in Cal sports history.
For each athlete, you can vote in the poll; it closes a week from today at midnight. After the jump, you can read the athlete profiles written up by our commenters, and discuss in the comments your memories of each athlete and which one deserves to move on. (Check out the full bracket here. To check out the original nomination thread, click here. For those who want to track the CGB Hall of Fame posts exclusively, click here or right next to the timestamp where it says "Hall of Fame".)
Ashley Walker
Norcalnick has both profiles this time around, starting with an excellent post on Walker.
Ashley Walker came to Cal as the overlooked member of the class that revived women’s basketball in Berkeley. She wasn’t as heralded as Alexis Gray-Lawson or Devanei Hampton. She’s not flashy. She’s not particularly fast. Hampton and Rama N’diaye are both taller and bigger than Walker. And yet, after the most successful four year stretch in Cal women’s basketball history, it was Walker who emerged as the rock, the go-to player, the one who rewrote the record book with an amazing combination of constant growth and reliability.
Consider these numbers: Ashley Walker led Cal in the following statistical categories in her senior year: Minutes, points, rebounds, field goal percentage, free throw percentage, blocks and three point percentage. If she had two more steals she would have led the team in that category as well. And Cal was not a team of scrubs with one superstar – Cal was a consistent top 10 team with talent, depth and a good coach. Ashley Walker did everything.
Her profile from CalBears.com:"ranked first in Cal history in rebounds (1117), free throws made (506) and attempted (675)... tied for first in games played (130)...second in career points (2142), blocked shots (174) and made field goals (810)...third in scoring average (16.5 ppg)...fourth in field goal percentage (52.7)... seventh in free throw percentage (75.3), and ninth in career steals (177)...ranks sixth on the Pac-10 career rebounding list and seventh in Pac-10 career scoring."
My favorite memory of Walker is somewhat bittersweet. Not surprisingly for a player who seemed to get better each game over four years, Walker played her best in her final NCAA tournament. First, she shot 9-12 for 21 points in an easy win over Fresno St. Then she destroyed Virginia, shooting 14-20 for 32 points along with 10 boards. And for the first 14 minutes against #1 UConn Walker kept it going, hitting threes, getting inside, grabbing boards and generally frustrating Geno Auriemma. UConn still cruised to victory, but Walker finished with 21 points. I firmly believe that Cal would have beaten just about any other team in the nation that day the way the team, and Walker, were peaking.
Walker was drafted 10th by the Seattle Storm and will now show her talent in the WNBA, where I have little doubt that a player with her versatility and ability to improve will carve out a successful role for a long time to come. Meanwhile Cal will have to do without what I believe is the best female basketball player ever to wear the blue and gold. Vote Ashley for the Hall of Fame!
For those of you MTV people wondering what Walker's living conditions were like at Cal...let's just say they were pretty peachy (lots of cool images of her crib if you click!)
The Play Players
Norcalnick talks about The Play.
Moen to Rodgers to Garner to Rodgers to Ford to Moen. Like pi to math majors, every Cal fan should know the sequence. But how exactly did a last second victory in a game with no real national significance become so legendary, so mythical?
I tried to find a different picture, but apparently this was the only photo taken in the entire stadium.
When I was 9 I went to my first Big Game and watched Cal win. Having been hooked on Cal football, I then saw Cal lose 7 straight times. My Mom, the consummate pessimistic yet loyal Cal fan, would hold up The Play as our desperate Cal fan trump card. Lose 7 in a row to the ‘furd? So what, we have The Play. Go a decade without a bowl? Whatevs, we have The Play. No Rose Bowl berths in either of our lifetimes? No worries, we have The Play.
For 20 years between The Play and Tedford, it was our one shining moment in a sea of football pain and misery. Whenever the Big Game was in Palo Alto my mom would play a tape that analyzed The Play, including an introduction, the CALX call of the game (which is significantly more confusing even than Starkey’s call) and player interviews. We played it to piss off the Stanford fans, because THEY LOST ON THE PLAY!
Every once in a while ESPN or Sports Illustrated will have some silly internet voting for the greatest play in college (or sports) history. Despite a biased voting public, The Play almost always wins. Nothing can match 6 laterals against your biggest rival with the most insane band in America on the field.
It is here that we must mention the unfortunate part of our story: Mariet Ford, he of the psychic blind lateral, is currently behind bars for the murder of his wife and 35 month old son. The Chronicle has a long profile on Ford, detailing the glory of The Play and his fall from grace.
Now, in 2009, with 6 straight bowl games and perennial conference title contention, maybe The Play isn’t as important as it used to be. We don’t need to hang our hat on one moment. Or, maybe The Play will remain as a moment that defines Cal athletes and fans alike with the attitude that the Bear will not quit, the Bear will not die.
And if you ever wondered if The Play was ‘the most amazing, sensational, dramatic, heart-rending... exciting, thrilling finish in the history of college football,’ I’ll leave you with this:
For many years, John Elway was bitter, on both a personal level and on behalf of his team, about the touchdown being allowed: "This was an insult to college football... They [the officials] ruined my last game as a college football player."
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I vote for the loser of the Roth-Tedford matchup.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 15, 2009 2:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
How to pick your vote
Look, don’t worry about whether you watched every Golden Bear play, coach, do their thing; there’s no way you could have seen them all, and they all deserve some votes. But DO worry about whether you know their story. Do some homework. And DON’T be swayed just by popularity (don’t be a sheep)!!!!!
I saw BOTH The Play and Ashley in person (do the math; I’m older than you). I’ll NEVER get tired of watching Summer Sanders complain that the #1 play in sports history was against her alma mater and I LOVE watching Big Games in a mixed crowd of Cal/Stanfurd fans (like they do in Portland and San Diego) all because we have The Play. It’s a moment in time that I will ALWAYS remember; people were walking around the streets trying to figure out if what they saw was real, and the only evidence that it was, was all the other people doing the same thing.
But it was a fluke. We got lucky; lucky there was no replay; lucky Dwight Garner didn’t get called down; lucky Mariet Ford didn’t get called for the forward lateral; lucky the band flooded the field; lucky Elway liked 8 seconds………… I love, love, love it. It is a part of me………………
But Ashley gets my vote. Ashley BRINGS it, every day, every play. While she has range everywhere, she makes it HAPPEN underneath where she has to earn every basket by getting clobbered by the big girls. Coach Boyle is awesome, but Ashley is THE REASON Cal is a top 10 team. Ashley put us back on the map with every opponent knowing the ball was going to her and no squib kick or band on the court.
Ashley deserves this one EVEN over (and don’t think this is easy for me…..) The Play.
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Jul 18, 2009 6:33 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Ashley is deserving, but I think both of these candidates would lose in a landslide to either Tedford or Roth.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 18, 2009 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luck and The Play
Of course good fortune was involved in The Play. But I think you’ve listened to too many Stanford Whiners over the years and accepted their claims that it was, in some way, illegal. It may have been, but I don’t believe one can reasonably argue that the referees made an unjust mistake. In other words, Oski didn’t sneak one out of the cookie jar.
First, we’ll never know if Dwight Garner’s knee was down; the low-resolution video evidence is simply inconclusive. Any Cal fan who claims they can see that it wasn’t down, and any Stanford fan who claims they can see that it was down, are just deluding themselves. It was close, very close, and the refs easily and reasonably could have called it either way.
Second, I also believe the alleged “forward lateral” is subject to interpretation. Did the momentum of the ball carry it forward? The video evidence strongly suggests that it did. But here’s the thing: the college football rule book is actually very vague about what constitutes “forward”. First of all, it doesn’t recognize lateral passes; there are only “forward” and “backward” passes. Neither label is defined in the rule book. Now, we tend to interpret the rules of American football very strictly, so it’s probably fair to assume that “forward” and “backward” are best defined relative to the fixed gridiron of the field. But that is just an assumption. What makes the final Ford-to-Moen pass ambiguous is that it was very much “backward” at the same time. That is, Ford tossed the ball backward, behind his body to a player that was trailing him by several yards. As a result, if one isn’t fixated on the field’s yard markings, that final pass appears to have been backward, not forward. I contend, therefore, that the referees reasonably judged this pass to be legal, because there is absolutely no doubt that it was executed within the spirit of the rules. This, by the way, is exactly the way Rugby Union chooses to define a legal (i.e., not forward) pass. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RgMlDy2jP9s
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 18, 2009 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What he’s probably arguing is that the awesomeness of the Play in an otherwise relatively meaningless Big Game has come to define Cal athletics, and that we attribute too much importance to it because of the crazy amount of attention it brought to our otherwise obscured sports programs.
I’m not going to argue against the Players, but did they contribute more in those 30 seconds to Cal football than Walker did in the past few years to Cal women’s hoops? Ponder that question.
by Avinash on Jul 18, 2009 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I feel bad for not voting for Ashley.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 18, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, don’t feel bad. Another 20 people would have to change their vote to make a difference. Besides, there’s always next year!
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 18, 2009 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sort of....
I’m not saying Garner WAS down or that Mariet forward lateralled, but that those COULD have been called either way thus negating a wonderous moment. Yes, I get ALOT of back talk from Stanfurdites, but I don’t buy it, EVER.
The first whiner I heard was the Cardinal Coach (Was it Wiggins?) walking towards the lockerroom griping BIG TIME that the refs had “stolen” the game from him as pandemonium erupted all around. He’s probably still griping (is he still alive?). I’ll watch Summer Sanders gripe any time, by the way…..(mute button….)
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Jul 19, 2009 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An honest, serious question
In many of the other matchups, a lot of you voted based on having seen the player(s) in question. Such as Tony Gonzalez v Ryan Anderson. The same justification was even used in Tedford v Roth.
Fine. If that’s your criteria, I can accept it (even if I don’t agree with it).
So, how are any of you now voting for The Play? Some of you weren’t even born when it took place.
I don’t mean to be a pain or that old guy who constantly brings up the Great War to point out how easy you kids have it today what with your eeeny-pods and Interthingies. But I just want to understand.
Then I promise to go away and not bring it up again. Cross my heart and hope to die, stick a Stanfurd in my eye.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by SoCal Oski on Jul 15, 2009 3:42 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
That isn’t my method for voting, but to be fair, almost all of us have seen The Play (even if it wasn’t in person).
by Yes We Cannon on Jul 15, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I haven’t watched any women’s basketball the past few years, so I don’t really have any fond personal memories of Ashley Walker. Looking in the paper the next morning and being happy when the team won is the extent of my women’s basketball following.
Plus, The Play is one of the most iconic moments in the history of sports. You would be hard pressed to find a Cal fan who hasn’t seen it at least 20 times.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 15, 2009 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'd for truth!
Also, I plan on bringing it up as much as possible.
Let me state this clearly: JOE ROTH SHOULD NEVER LOSE A CAL FAN VOTE.
I’m frustrated and embarassed that he is.
by LeonPowe on Jul 15, 2009 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
dude it’s not that big of a deal
CGB: Optimism is dead to us.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Jul 16, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the contrary
Assuming that we all place some sort of importance on being fans of University of California Berkeley athletic teams and further more that one of the more important things about sports is the history and traditions that bind previous generations of Cal fans to current day Cal fans – and this is everything from cheers, to colors, to songs – and a lot of that is lore and history of the sports teams of the university.
If we all agree that traditions and history are important . . . and I think we have, then Joe Roth shouldn’t lose a Cal fan vote. If he loses, then it means we’re not doing a good enough job of education of a current generation.
Otherwise this should be the 1995 – Present Cal Hall of Fame.
by LeonPowe on Jul 16, 2009 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone is asking how they should vote (Should I have seen them play?, etc.) I think people should just vote however they want to. Sure, you may disagree with their votes, but they each have their own method. I don’t think it is that big a deal. I personally suggested (I am pretty sure at least) that Joe Roth should be automatically inducted.
And this just gives you one more Cal sports related topic to be bitter about.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 16, 2009 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
I’m saying that there is a poor job with education of current students or fans if they are not voting for Roth.
And if you think I’m especially bitter, you haven’t met enough Cal fans.
by LeonPowe on Jul 16, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I once met this 60 year old dude who kept on muttering “Longshore sucks Longshore sucks” walking home from a game. I always wondered later on if that was Olsonist.
by Avinash on Jul 17, 2009 12:19 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Leon – It does depend on what the criteria are (something nobody seems sure about). If you’re talking about long-term impact on Cal football, rather than importance within the Cal athletic tradition, there is a strong case to be made for Tedford over Roth.
by HolmoePhobe on Jul 17, 2009 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the confusion is the criteria for voting versus the criteria for selection. The criteria for selection was very clear and tried to include information about personally witnessing the person. That way the selections, the various people would be CGB’s true people. Our Hall Of Fame. As compared to the Cal official HoF which will include tons of people from many moons ago that nobody alive ever saw play.
Now, this initially trends it towards more recent players, especially in football and b-ball.
Once you get to voting, then its individual to each person. I am not going to tell you how to vote. Neither is Avinash. Again, I believe it will trend it towards more recent players in football and b-ball. But, yknow what, if that’s what CGB believes, then thats what CGB gets. Period.
Supreme Leader Ayatollah TwistNHook!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Jul 17, 2009 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, brother!
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
by SoCal Oski on Jul 17, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying that there is a poor job with education of current students or fans if they are not voting for Roth.
Very much agreed. If my Old Blue grandfather hadn’t given me a copy of Joe’s biography written by his mother I wouldn’t have had a very good idea of who he was and what he meant. I keep hoping that the Athletic Department will make a bigger deal out of the Joe Roth game.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 18, 2009 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this SHOULD be Ashley Walker by a landslide...
…but I know it’ll just be the opposite.
The Play is just that – A PLAY. One play. It is not a career, it’s not a season, it’s not even an entire game. What else did these players do in their Cal football careers? What records were broken by this one play? How did Cal even do that season? Rose Bowl berth? national championship? Nope. This is not to disparage their accomplishments, but we cannot deny that The Play is just one play. A spectacular one, a legendary one, yes, but just a play.
With Walker, we’re talking about an entire career. We’re talking about record-breaking career. She did it all over the course a career – scoring on the floor, on the stripe, defense, rebounding – a true all-around player, and an amazing career. Not just one game, not just one season, but a stellar career.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
by BearStage on Jul 15, 2009 6:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I figured The Play would win, but not by such a HUGE margin!
Supreme Leader Ayatollah TwistNHook!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Jul 15, 2009 6:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not surprised. I knew Ashley wouldn’t make the hall of fame this year, but I have high hopes for next year.
Ashley Walker is the best Cal women’s basketball player ever. There isn’t any doubt about the best Cal football and men’s basketball will make it. I wish it would be assumed about our female players as well. Oh well.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 15, 2009 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Colleen Galloway? One of the few jerseys retired by Cal basketball, the only woman to have a retired jersey?
by Yes We Cannon on Jul 16, 2009 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one nominated her. Elaborate on who she is!!
by Avinash on Jul 17, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wondered if anybody would argue with declaring Ashley the best in Cal’s history. Galloway is definitely a more prolific scorer, but I think I would pick Ashley for better defense, higher field goal percentage, and because Ashley’s teammates were better than Colleen’s so Ashley didn’t get as many shots to accumulate stats.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 18, 2009 12:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never saw Galloway play. Based on the players I’ve seen, the one player I would put up there in an argument vs. Ashley Walker for best player in Cal women’s basketball history would be Milica Vukadinovic. And I don’t know which one of them I’d choose.
Praise be to Tedford!
by Ohio Bear on Jul 18, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What’s up with your desire for equality?
by Missing Barry on Jul 16, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…I was actually hoping for a reply, I wasn’t being sarcastic. There’s a strong case there shouldn’t be equality in electing these sports figures to the HoF…
by Missing Barry on Jul 17, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I was on vacation and didn’t get the chance to reply back.
What’s up with my desire for equality? I don’t think of it as a weird thing to hope for, but the way you phrase that you make it sound unusual.
Let’s imagine that a Cal men’s basketball player put together the same stats Ashley had (#1 in career rebounds and #2 in points) and consistently had the male Bears ranked in the top 25 over a four year career. Ashley Walker is something like the Leon Powe of Cal women’s basketball, except she did it for 4 years instead of 2 and had more NCAA tourney success…and she may never be seriously considered for this hall of fame. Her popularity with Cal alums is at its peak RIGHT NOW. She will fade from memory the same way Colleen Galloway has.
If you don’t like women’s basketball (or women’s sports in general) it doesn’t bother me. I would never watch the WNBA. But even if you don’t watch it I wish people would recognize and appreciate Ashley’s achievements. Way too often whenever women’s basketball comes up for discussion here and elsewhere somebody will always make the same comments about how inferior the women’s game is to the men’s game as if we all didn’t know already that men are taller and can jump higher etc. etc. and I’ve never understood why people have this need to devalue women’s sports and those who enjoy it.
So yeah, it’s a pet peeve. I’m curious what you mean by this:
There’s a strong case there shouldn’t be equality in electing these sports figures to the HoF…
In the sense that we’re just voting for who we got more enjoyment out of as a fan? I know people are doing that. I’m just trying to provide a voice in her favor, even if it’s falling on deaf ears.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 18, 2009 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
It’s a fair thought, and I’m going to leave my own thoughts towards women’s sports out of this. I would guess at the college level things are more equal, but especially with basketball before the college level, the difference in the time commitment and dedication between women’s and men’s is huge. Holding the athletic advantage guys have over girls against the girls would be unfair, but I could see reasons to hold the skill level/commitment level against them. The guys have just worked a lot harder and put a lot more time in to their games than the girls (and their skills are better as a result), and possibly should be rewarded. The competition levels are also very different, a lot more guys play than girls so to stand out in mens basketball is a tougher feat.
Honestly, I don’t really one way or another on the issue, I just wanted to bring it up because I think a lot of people out there don’t realize what a huge gap there is between them. I don’t know if this could or should change the way anyone votes, obviously everyone can decide for themselves what they care about, I just like to educate. :)
by Missing Barry on Jul 18, 2009 6:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The competition levels are also very different, a lot more guys play than girls so to stand out in mens basketball is a tougher feat.
I don’t have any quibbles with that.
The guys have just worked a lot harder and put a lot more time in to their games than the girls
I don’t think I can agree with that unless you have some proof that male basketball players spend more practice hours at the gym or something. It seems like you’re making a pretty big assumption. I might be able to imagine that as a general rule male college basketball players have collectively ‘worked harder’ (however you would define that) but in Ashley’s case I think that would be biased to hold that against her unless you have specific, first-hand knowledge that Ashley hasn’t spent hours on the court working on her game.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Jul 18, 2009 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don’t spend more time. I don’t know where he is drawing all his conclusions from.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 18, 2009 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To expand a little on my statement, I don’t know what kind of relative time commitment they have on the college level, and I’m ok assuming they put in the same amount of time to basketball in college. As for pre-college, I’m not making any assumptions. I played high school basketball myself, was friends with a few of the girls players, and I can tell you, they’re not even comparable. Guys teams play year long (at least in the East Bay) – there are leagues in the fall, summer, spring, spring and fall open gyms, and then the regular season. The regular season’s are equal for guys and girls. Summer is somewhat equal, usually schools have both a girls and a guys camp and then play in leagues outside of that, though guys have more options and have more tournament options to go to and such. Fall and spring between leagues, open gym, and conditioning (if the program does it) is a huge time commitment for guys while girls barely do anything.
Overall high school isn’t even close to equal in terms of time commitment. On top of that there is a lot more stuff like AAU available to guys to play even more, and while some of it’s available to girls, the number of tournaments, practices, scrimmages, exhibitions, and whatever else aren’t close to the same.
by Missing Barry on Jul 19, 2009 3:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How old are you?
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 19, 2009 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fairly recent college graduate…so not too far removed from my high school days. To further elaborate on my own past basketball career, I started playing year round (games/leagues/tournaments) in 6th grade. Most girls high school players don’t play year round. They pretty much get the fall and spring off.
by Missing Barry on Jul 20, 2009 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definitely not true anymore.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 20, 2009 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would have a hard time believing anything has changed since I graduated high school. All 4 years I was in HS were in this decade, after all. I also knew a couple of girls that played at other schools, and again, their basketball commitments just weren’t comparable to the guys.
by Missing Barry on Jul 20, 2009 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The girls I know play pretty much year round. I think they had a few weeks off, and that is it.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 20, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not going to dispute exactly what weeks players have on and off. I am going to say guys basketball players, on average, have a much larger time commitment than girls, in high school and sometimes before that. I guess we could listen to the person (you) that didn’t play basketball and doesn’t know everything it entails over the person who did….or maybe we shouldn’t do that. :)
by Missing Barry on Jul 20, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, I was JV manager last year!
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 20, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but especially with basketball before the college level, the difference in the time commitment and dedication between women’s and men’s is huge.
I am in high school, so I know both girls and guys basketball players. Your statement is wrong. Very, very wrong. Girls have club teams too. They put in just as much work.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 18, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has very little to do with work ethic. It has far more to do with genetics. The top women college hoopsters could work 24 hours a day on their game and they would still probably get blown out by an average D-III men’s team.
It should not diminish the accomplishments of Walker, who has competed very well against her peers rather than some nebulous roundball standard that top men’s hoopsters set.
by Avinash on Jul 18, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The top women college hoopsters could work 24 hours a day on their game and they would still probably get blown out by an average D-III men’s team
Disagree heavily with that statement. There aren’t very many 7 footers in D3.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Jul 18, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re very, very wrong then. Guys high school teams are better than girls college teams. I think it’s unfair to hold that against girls though, as it’s as much a product of height and athleticism as anything else. Basically this point should not be held against girls at all.
by Missing Barry on Jul 19, 2009 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah dude, you’re sadly mistaken. I mean they put castoffs on local men’s community college teams to guard women during practices.
It’s just genetics. Organized men college basketball teams on any level can outperform the undefeated Huskies. They’re too fast and have more explosive moves.
by Avinash on Jul 20, 2009 4:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In all fairness, The Play is going to leave a lasting memory bigger than Ashley Walker’s entire career will.
by Missing Barry on Jul 16, 2009 7:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably true, but how many people will remember the names of the players involved? Even I have trouble remembering Moen/Rogers/Ford. The Play seems to be getting rewarded more than the Players.
by Avinash on Jul 16, 2009 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is exactly my issue.
CGB: Wasting Your Potential, Your Time, & Your Life Since 2006.
by BearStage on Jul 16, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Play seems to be getting rewarded more than the Players.
And that is why I voted for Ashley.
Praise be to Tedford!
by Ohio Bear on Jul 18, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True dat
Love ’em both, but Ashley gets my vote.
She’s all about hard work and determination; The Play was a fluke (apologies to Joe K., I know you “practiced” it). Cal W’s BBall is a Top 10 program BECAUSE of Ashley and that is causing a tide change resulting in one of the best recruiting classes in the country. She’s affecting the future of the program; The Play was merely F*@&ING INCREDIBLE !!!
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Jul 18, 2009 7:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Defending my votes for Tedford and The Play
The Play is winning for the same reason that Joe Roth is (or at least was) keeping it close against Tedford. They’re icons. No, The Play-ers can’t match Ashley Walker on the basis of career achievement—even collectively—but nothing is so prominently the face of Cal athletics as The Play. For this reason, combined with the very simple reason that I’m not a very big basketball fan, leads me to vote for The Players, even though they were (slightly) before my time. (That said, Ashley Walker was that much more after my time in Berkeley, and I never had the chance to see her play in person, either. Unfortunately.)
As for Roth, he’s an icon, too. While it’s hard to compare an individual player’s career to that of a coach, I think it’s easy to conclude that Tedford, already, has had a far more profound impact on Cal football than Roth. Looked at objectively, Roth had a nice career: an excellent junior season followed up by a very good senior season, with a rare conference co-championship to boot. I don’t know where exactly I’d rate Roth amongst the pantheon of Cal QBs, but I nonetheless think Tedford already occupies an even more prominent position within Cal’s coaching history, firmly on the podium alongside Andy Smith and Pappy Waldorf, head and shoulders above the rest. I’m not sure I can so clearly distinguish Roth’s career from that of Rodgers, Taylor, Bartkowski, Pawlawski, Kapp, Morton, and maybe even Barr, Gilbert, Barnes, Boller, and (dare I say) Longshore. Again, based purely on on-the-field achievement.
Rather than through his play alone, Roth reaches iconic status through his remarkable personal story of courage and dignity, one of the all-time greatest stories in the annals of college football, maybe even in all of American sport. He was the West Coast Brian Piccolo and John and Joey Cappelletti all rolled into one. There’s a reason #12 is the only retired number in Strawberry Canyon, and I hope it forever remains that way. This made it hard for me not to pick him over Tedford, but in that case, because I’m a football fan, because Tedford’s Cal legacy appears far from complete, and because Tedford is the face of Cal sports in the blogging 21st century, he got my vote. Barely.
I hope it’s clear that I don’t think there is a wrong vote to be made in either of the current matchups. And I can’t really argue with what SoCal Oski, BearStage, and The Show, have said above. But ultimately, we all have personal, idiosyncratic reasons for picking who we do. In the end, this really is a popularity contest, and I’m fine with that.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 15, 2009 7:55 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
Can't Totally Agree, Pete
Joe Roth is more than an Icon; he was an athlete who worked his ass off to be as good as he could be. You’re dead right about that with The Play, though. It’s glamorous but didn’t affect the quality of the program like Roth and Tedford did/are.
With that said, I voted for Tedford, too, because of the lasting legacy he’ll have on the program.
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Jul 18, 2009 7:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we actually agree on this. If the match-up were Roth vs. The Play-ers, I’d vote for Roth in a heartbeat. By describing him as iconic, I merely was claiming that his standing within Cal sports is far greater than a simple list of his (impressive) career statistics and achievements would suggest. And that’s precisely why he’s drawn so much support, even when matched up against Tedford. Because on paper, it’s not a close match-up: no single player has, or could have, as large an impact on Cal football as Tedford already has had as head coach.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on Jul 18, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now I see the light !!!
No argument with that, my friend.
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Jul 20, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Ashley
Pretty brutal to have to go up against one of the most prolific plays and play-calls in sports history, in the first round no less!
Gave her my vote, but it might be too little too late.
by AllPac10 on Jul 15, 2009 10:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, as a representative of the ENTIRE Pac10, your vote actually counts more.
Unfortunately, I am not sure it is enough to get Ashley to the next round.
Supreme Leader Ayatollah TwistNHook!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Jul 15, 2009 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Joe Roth & the play
I was incredibly fortunate to witness both. Joe was an amazing athlete with unbelievable courage. My first season watching the bears was 75. Joe dazzled and brought so much pride to Cal fans. An amazing young man loved by so many. My brother passed from Melanoma at a young age. I can’t imagine the courage and effort involved in honoring his athletic and academic commitments while being ill. What a great season with Muncie, Wesley Walker and co. Cal lead the nation in offense and I will never forget the bears beating 4th ranked sc with almost 500 yards of offense. The first memorial game in 77 was an amazing experience. Very emotional pre-game ceremony followed by another victory over sc.
I’ve had the privilege of attending nba and mlb playoffs, several world series games, mlb all-star games, numerous ncaa tournament games, etc. Nothing will ever come close to the madness of the play. I was in the opposite end zone, but will never forget the hysteria. I will never get tired of watching it and listening to Starkey. Joe and the play, both bring immense pride to the University of California.
by Bruins095 on Jul 16, 2009 12:20 AM PDT reply actions 4 recs
Firstly, there have been several in depth comments by readers in this thread and I’d like to thank all of them for sharing their thoughts. Great stuff, all around.
Secondly, Ashley is MAKING A COMEBACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Supreme Leader Ayatollah TwistNHook!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Jul 16, 2009 7:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Play and Ashley Walker
Ashley Walker is the greatest women’s basketball player in Cal history. Along with Joanne Boyle, Devanei Hampton and Alexis Gray-Lawson she transformed the women’s basketball program to a perennial nationally ranked squad. She is also one of the nicest people I have ever had the opportunity to meet.
But the Play is the iconic monent of Cal sports history, and perhaps all of NCAA football. It is exactly what you want Cal sports to be, winning over Stanfurd by outsmarting them. Forcing John Elway to whine like a baby for years about how Cal ruined his career by denying him a bowl. Never mind that Cal had a better record and didn’t get a bowl bid even with the win.
Ashley will make it in, but her class just graduated a month ago. The Play earns my vote.
by calbearman76 on Jul 16, 2009 7:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Tedford vs. Roth
Joe Roth was great. In my years at Cal, our quarterbacks included Vince Ferragamo (chased off to Nebraska because he couldn’t start at Cal), Steve Bartkowski and Joe Roth. Roth was the best of the bunch. His story is incredibly compelling and inspirational. In 1975, he led the Bears to a 48-15 destruction of Stanfurd down on the farm. That game should have put us in the Rose Bowl except for the choke artist that USC is
Tedford hasn’t gotten Cal to a Rose Bowl yet. Wait until he has done that before you put him in the Hall. The real point is that if you asked Tedford, I’m sure he would be embarrassed if he were chosen oven Joe Roth.
by calbearman76 on Jul 16, 2009 7:54 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great QBs
during that time period. One of my favorites will always be Rich Campbell.
by Bruins095 on Jul 16, 2009 11:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The Play
I have been reading this blog for more than two years, and finally felt compelled (got the courage?) to sign up and post. I really believe that as much fun and iconoclastic as the play was and is, in some way it holds us back. To be known for a wild play (some would say freakish) at the end of a rivalry game should not be what Cal Football is about. Maybe it will take a BCS win to put the focus on something that is more achievement oriented. I think this has the potential to be a special season, and maybe when the play gets put in its place, as fun, unusual, but not defining of the program.
by GoldenBear 77 on Jul 18, 2009 7:25 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Thank you for posting, we really appeciate your readership and look forward to seeing more of you around the site! GO BEARS!
Supreme Leader Ayatollah TwistNHook!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Jul 18, 2009 8:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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