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For several years now, Washington State University has been blessed with something it has often lacked throughout its history; an exciting, contending basketball team, led by a successful head coach who not only won games, but was coveted by other, less successful schools. Some might say that Tony Bennett was too successful, as he has now been lured away from the Palouse by big money from the University of Virginia. For a fantastic perspective on the situation, I refer you to Nuss from CougCenter, who whips through the five stages of grief in under 750 words. Some selected highlights:
Tony Bennett is just like every other coach.
And Washington State always will be a place where successful coaches come to build a resume and move on.
There's really no other way to explain what happened today. We gave Tony everything he asked for -- and even some things he didn't -- and it still wasn't enough to keep a guy we wanted to keep, a guy who professed wanting to be here. We thought we could escape our history, convincing ourselves this was a different era in Cougar athletics as we bought Tony's schtick hook, line and sinker.
Yes, he lied to us, but it's our fault for believing him. You might find that language harsh or too strong, but he's the one who said all those things about Pullman, about Sterk, about the program ... and then bolted today with only a short players' meeting. Those were his words, not ours.
We've all heard this story before; it's one of the most tired storylines in college sports. The knee-jerk response might be to demonize Tony Bennett for using WSU and lying to everyone about his intentions, or to bemoan the slanted college athletics playing field where big money (and the donors who provide it) rules everything, but I have another, broader target.
What particularly struck me about this story was that while it is an unfortunate situation for many of those involved (the players who came to Wazzu to play for Bennett, the administration that worked hard to support and stand behind him, the fans who believed Bennett when he said he was in it for the long haul), there is no one person who can really be labeled an 'antagonist' here. Everybody involved acted in their own best interest; indeed, I will argue that if Tony Bennett misled the Washington State Basketball family about his long-term intentions, it was because it was in both his and their immediate interest that he do so.
For the vast majority of us, our work agreement with our employer is a temporary one; at some point, we will have outgrown the job, it will be time to move on, a better opportunity will come along, et cetera. Everyone understands this, and no one expects a lifetime commitment. To ask 99.9% of us if we still intended to hold the same job we have today five or seven years from now, and to moreover expect some sort of commitment as such, would be frankly quite absurd. The honest answer from those of us who have yet to attain our dream job is almost always "Not likely -- hopefully I'll have been promoted/moved up by then," or, at the least, "Maybe, unless something better comes along."
But college head coaches aren't allowed to give the honest answer. The system won't allow for it. A successful coach who says that he's 'happy where he is' and 'isn't looking for another job right now' all but but posts his résumé in newspapers across America. An honest, plausible 'out' just isn't good enough, as opposing college coaches will invariably use this as evidence against that coach when speaking to potential recruits. Hitting up donors for the funds to build a fancy new training facility? They'll want to know that they're giving to a winning team, now and in the future, and if a coach is less than 100% committed for the long haul, that pitch becomes that much more difficult.
So what's a head coach to do in this morally hazardous situation? If you tell the truth (that you're committed for now, and if a better job comes along next year, well, you'll see how much money they pile at your feet), you do yourself and your employer a disservice. You seem somewhat noncommittal, even perhaps disloyal. You hurt the program, making recruiting and fundraising both needlessly tougher. The truth serves neither interest. So you lie, and the only ones who believe you are the young and the naïve, and no one else is surprised when you jump for greener pastures two years from now. A regrettable situation, but it doesn't have to be that way.
The real cause of this situation is the savior-like importance put on a successful head coach, to the virtual exclusion of just about everything else that goes on at a successful Division I program. Assistant coaches, facilities, academics, alumni connections; these are all paid lip service, but without the genius head coach, they are virtually worthless. It is a tenuous situation, one that makes ADs across the country squirm in their seats.
Why do we let this happen? Why do we allow the fortunes of our beloved sporting programs to rest with one person? If Harvard or MIT were to steal away the head of one of our highly successful academic departments, would anyone panic that the program would then slide into mediocrity? No, of course not. It would be a blow, sure, but plenty of highly-prized professors would remain, as would the world class facilities and the extensive and valuable alumni network. A search committee would look for a suitable replacement, and someone plenty capable would be found. Perhaps the program would suffer a slight dip, but no more than that.
The key here is to build a program, and sell that to recruits, fans, and donors. Sell the assistant coaches and the academics and the facilities and the location and all those other things that won't change a bit should a pile of money lure away the head man. But don't just say it, build that reality. Build a wider foundation so that even if that dreaded day of "I'm truly grateful for the opportunity I've had here, but it's time for me to move on to bigger challenges" comes, it won't spell disaster so much as a minor speed bump.
And when coaches sell their program, they don't have to say that they're committed to it forever. They can actually tell the truth! "I love it here now, and while I'm not looking for other jobs, if I do ever leave, this program has so much going for it, it will go right on winning long after I'm gone." Not an easy place to get to, but a truthful one. One that players will appreciate even after the coach they signed to play for has left for greener pastures.
A great example of this is the Boise State football program. In 2006, Chris Petersen led the Broncos to a perfect 12-0 record and a berth in the 2007 Fiesta Bowl, where they knocked off heavily-favored Oklahoma. But Petersen wasn't a program-changing savior. While a good head coach, Petersen built Boise's success off the groundwork laid by his predecessors: the three previous head coaches at Boise are all guys I'm sure you've heard of: Houston Nutt (went on to success at Arkansas, now at Ole Miss), Dirk Koetter (had some success at Arizona State), and Dan Hawkins (now at Colorado). Additionally, both Hawkins and Petersen were Boise assistants that were promoted to the top job after the head man left, and Boise's dominance of the WAC didn't skip a beat in either case. However talented a coach Chris Petersen might be, does anyone honestly think Boise will immediately fall into football obscurity should Petersen leave for more money somewhere else?
Of course, it will always remain in the best interest of college head coaches to promote themselves as program-changing saviors; how else could they begin to justify their exorbitant salaries, often becoming a university's highest-paid employee? Building a strong program and a lasting legacy may also fall under the coaches' purview, but sharing the credit probably won't. This is why at least some of the program-building responsibility must necessarily fall to the Athletic Director and other university officials. As controlling and ego-centric as some college head coaches can be, the AD must ensure that the program could survive the loss of the head man. Some have already begun doing this, paying top assistants to stay and be head-coaches-in-waiting, though it is often only the richest, most successful schools who can afford this, and most of the head-coaches-in-waiting that I can think of are waiting for the Head Coach to retire, not to leave for more money.
Maybe it's just me, but I find lying and hypocrisy to be a much bigger sins than forthrightly chasing one's money-grubbing self-interest. If a coach wants to leave for what he considers a better job, that's his right, but he best have prepared his players for that eventuality. I would hope that the members of Washington State's basketball team are just as excited and proud to be there as there were three weeks ago, when Tony Bennett was still their head coach, as they are now, and would further hope that their decision regarding which college to attend rested on much more than the presence of one man. I wish them the best of luck in the future -- except against my Cal Bears, of course, when I hope they fail and fail miserably.
Maybe it's part of growing up to have one's illusions shattered by those you thought you could trust, but I'd just as soon as the players affected, as well as all of us fans, would wait and become jaded by politicians instead.
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nice post.
I agree very much that the hypocracy and hubris found in big time coaching are in fact bigger sins than the ‘greed’ ones.
Go Bears Go
I absolutely agree. And further more, who can really call this greed? I doubt any of these coaches would really throw their players under a bus for ‘a big pile of money’ — I mean it’d have to be a big pile of money and a very small bus. They’re working in their career, and as much as they may love Boise St, or Eastern Middletown U, they probably didn’t dream of being the head coach there for 30 or 40 years. IF you succeed, you want new challenges. Good for them…. “except against my Cal Bears, of course, when I hope they fail and fail miserably.”
I agree with your points, and I think more schools need to realize there aren’t very many true “destination” schools out there (so chances are whatever school we’re talking about probably don’t make the list), whatever the sport. BC with their ex-coach Jags comes to mind.
That said, I think you downplay the importance of a head coach. I believe a team like Boise can maintain it’s success through different coaches because each coach hires good talent for the program, essentially creating a coaching pipeline for when they ultimately leave. On the flip side, look at what getting a bad coach can do. Think UNC under Doherty. Obviously that school is a true destination school for basketball, and so they were able to hire Roy Williams to turn things around.
The problem is for the rest of the schools in the country (like Wash St.), they can spend 10 years building up the program into a respectable program, and one bad hire can set them right back where they started.
You’re right, I DO downplay the importance of a head coach. I’ll freely admit, good head coaches are very important. There’s a reason people around here deify Jeff Tedford; not only winning football games but turning around the pervasive culture of losing that infected the program was a monumental job, and while he had lots of help, Tedford was responsible for setting expectations, hiring assistants, directing the program, et cetera. Even the most history-soaked program won’t succeed without competent direction from the top (see: Kentucky in the NIT this year).
I suppose part of the point of my screed was that schools should build solid foundations so that they don’t live in fear of their coach jumping ship, which I suppose would cause the importance of the Head Coach to be downplayed. While plenty of power and responsibility must necessarily rest with the Head Coach, there is plenty an athletic department can do irrespective of the current coaching staff to boost a program. What I’m saying, essentially, is that the deification of major college coaches can be a very bad thing, and can lead to unreasonable and unsustainable expectations, and can place a program in precarious peril. Build a solid program, and you’ll be much better positioned to ride out the occasional poor head coaching hires (how many Sweet 16s did UCLA make despite the fact that Steve Lavin was the head coach?)
Now how does Washington State do all this? It’s a tough job, and I’m just a humble blogger, not an administrative professional. I suppose I’d start with the school’s surprisingly large and loyal fanbase, and build off of that.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
karma has a way of dealing with this
This Bennett guy reminds me of Tyrone Willingham and I wish him the same fate. Washington State did everything they could for him and he had a winning program. Not every coach can replicate the magic of a winning program somewhere else.
Stanfurd Delendum Est.
Is this the end of Wazzou?
- Pulman isn’t very desirable either academically or athletically
- CA teams are improving in football & Oregon is a bonafide Top 25 team
- Football team’s in shambles and has E. Washington’s coach.
- Bennett broke their hearts and any good coach will leave either the football or basketball teams
- Utah, BYU, and Boise St are improving
Will we see a realignment (Wazzou —> MWC, Utah —>Pac10?) or an expansion (adding two teams) or an expansion w/ ejection of Wazzou (add 3 teams) within 5 years? Within 10 years?
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
In Order: No, No, and No.
I am the Tyrant Boy King Of UC Eugene! An endless cavalcade of worthless inanities is my currency!
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While you may be right, I think my points have merrit.
How many shitty years would it take? 20? At some point it would be desirable for Wazzou fans to have competitive teams.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
Pop Quiz, Carp. When was the last time a non-USC team went to the Rose Bowl? And who was that team?
Spoiler Alert: IT WASN’T US!
I am the Tyrant Boy King Of UC Eugene! An endless cavalcade of worthless inanities is my currency!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
and when do you think will be there next Rose Bowl appearance?
Again, I’m asking people to look forward and not backward. How many future years of futility would it take? Obviously I’m not asking for a quick, irrational decision to be made. If Wazzou was a stock would anyone buy it?
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
I’d buy a shitload of it, because its cheap and it has nowhere to go but up. I appreciate your “Buy High Sell Low” investment strategy, but I tend to go in a different direction.
I am the Tyrant Boy King Of UC Eugene! An endless cavalcade of worthless inanities is my currency!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
What? You’re buying it as it’s on the way down. It can still go down (continued losing and move to another conference) and would need to before it went up, imo.
I’d buy it as rumors swirled that it would move to another conference as it would be both cheap and promising.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
your opinions on why WSU sucks notwithstanding,
in the two big sports, WSU has succeed at a higher level much more recently than we have. They have always had certain limitations and challenges, but have succeeded despite them. I don’t see how anything fundamental has changed – they are down right now, but it’s not like they just recently moved to a desolate location without a major recruiting base. They obviously know how to manage these limitations.
I think for us to say that a school will never again succeed athletically is very hypocritical, considering our history.
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yes, again, looking backwards I get that! I understand we sucked for a long time. But there was always potential (which perhaps continued to drive Cal fans crazy). I’m trying to look at this problem as a fan without allegiances (even though they lie with Cal). That’s what I’m asking others to do.
Personally, I don’t see the potential. I think it requires a “perfect storm” scenario for them to succeed and I think it will be difficult to repeat in the future despite their recent past.
They obviously know how to manage these limitations.
Maybe you’re right. Maybe it’s finding the rare perfect coach for this situation, watching them leave, then trying to find the rare perfect coach again. It’s like they can have the flash in the pan success, then it’s gone.
Maybe in a tougher conference, Utah/BYU/Boise St become Wazzou-esque. Personally, I think Utah has skyrocketed and, with a few more years, could field sustainable athletic teams in many sports.
Sounds like downgrading Wazzou to another conference is terrible, but perhaps that will get them to thrive, as Gonzaga and Boise St have done. They could get to bowl games and be BCS busters (or make the playoffs).
Again, I’m not saying to move them immediately. I’m asking how many continued unsuccessful years would it take?
Regardless, we’ll find out if this turning point leads back to their recent success or continued failure.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
You are Rishi-like in your odd stubborn-ness that WSU will never prevail again in the Pac10 and should be shipped off to the NorthEastern Siberian Football League.
I am the Tyrant Boy King Of UC Eugene! An endless cavalcade of worthless inanities is my currency!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
lol Hawaii. Nice destination, but that’s not going to cut it. I wonder if they considered going independent. I’m sure they could get like 7 home games a year.
I’m not necessarily sold on the Pac12, but I’d like us to start playing on an even field with the big boys.
What I really want to see are two teams in BCS bowls. The only scenario, I think, was OSU’s chance last year with a higher ranked USC team. Even that would have been relatively embarrassing for the Pac10 and would have led to a repeat game in the Rose.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
What we find amusing is your assertion that Wazzu will never again contend for a Pac-10 crown, thus the Pac-10 will always be looked down on as inferior by everyone else. There are plenty of reasons the Pac-10 is looked down upon, but I doubt what happens in Pullman has much to do with that logic. The SEC has had Vanderbilt, the Big 12 has had Baylor, and both of them have had no trouble overcoming this obstacle.
woah, I’m not saying “Pac10 sux cuz of Wazzou” but they’re certainly not helping! The Pac10 has many more issues to deal with that are much more important than wazzou. Personally, my hopes aren’t that high for Mr. Tennis man…
leaked Commish search committe transcripts:
Bowlsby: Condi?
Furd Prez: Nope, Bush loyalist.
Bowlsby: Sandy?
Furd Prez: Too expensive and questions our current practice.
Bowlsby: You know, this guy kicked my ass in tennis the other day…
Furd Prez: Really?
Bowlsby: Yeah he’s from Harvard, he runs Women’s Tennis, and he loves Director’s Cups.
Furd Prez: Sold!
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
Well, if you guys think they’ll prevail, I’d like to learn how that’s possible. Sorry, “cuz they did not that long ago” just doesn’t do it for me. What’s scary is that it’s more than just a payroll thing with their coaching turnover I think.
If I sound annoyed/stubborn it’s not because of Wazzou necessarily, it’s because I’m ready for this fucking conference to take off. There are myriad of problems to address and I’d like to see Mr. Tennis man in his N. Main St. office (is that where they are?) make some much needed changes.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
Indeed carp
What I would do is go to CougCenter and write a FanPost asking them why they shouldn’t be deported to the gulags of the NCAA.
I might, very carefully, do that. Maybe not. I like JonnyCoug, Nuss, and their website. I don’t claim to know the inner dimensions of Wazzou football & basketball so maybe they could provide some insight.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
That’s not a bad idea. WSU, SMU, Temple, NMSU, FIU, Baylor, Duke, and the Furd go off and form the Gulag 8 conference?
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions
Nah that honor goes to whatever team Mike Leach is coaching.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, if you guys think they’ll prevail, I’d like to learn how that’s possible. Sorry, "cuz they did not that long ago" just doesn’t do it for me.
Well then Carp, why don’t you explain to the rest of us how they have been to the Rosebowl twice in the last 15 years and made the sweet 16 last year?
This hypothetical argument is ridiculous, because we can look to what wsu ACTUALLY DID under the same circumstances!
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I think it requires a "perfect storm" scenario for them to succeed
This is where I take issue. They have been significantly more successful than us more recently and more frequently. It hasn’t taken anywhere close to a “perfect storm”. Just look at their ’07-08 bball season: top recruits? No. Down conference to take advantage of? The absolute opposite, one of the strongest and deepest Pac-10 bball seasons ever. Significant upgrade in facilities? No. Suddenly good PR or media attention? No.
They just had a good coach with some good, perhaps under-rated players and had a very very good team that went to the sweet 16. Right now they have one very good player (Klay Thompson) another good player (Castro) and some other guys that can develop. They are in much better shape personnel wise than they were whenever Dick Bennett was hired (5 or 6 years ago) and now a much more attractive coaching destination, given their returning players and recent success. There is no magic formula here or perfect storm, just a good team. And this is just their bball program – their football team has gone to 2 Rose Bowls in the last 15 years, which is more than you can say for any pac 10 team save USC.
Personally, I don’t see the potential
Well, that is all fine and good, but it’s irrelevant. Whether or not you see the potential, they’ve had plenty of success dealing with the same set of circumstances. I’m not sure I can explain why (why does any program have a good run?), but I can’t argue with results, and again, it’s not like they were doing these good things in LA and suddenly got relocated to Pullman.
To answer your question, I have no idea. 30 losing season? As Ragnarok said, OSU did that and they’re still in the Pac. Winless seasons for the next 10 years? But you’re asking this question with this view that they have nothing going for them and that they will never be successful again. For the reasons I outlined above, I find this ridiculous.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
Slow clap.
I am the Tyrant Boy King Of UC Eugene! An endless cavalcade of worthless inanities is my currency!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
again, your focus on history is nice and it has something to it. They are two coaches removed from their last Rose Bowl team and now have to find a hoops coach whose last name doesn’t end in Bennett (although maybe they can get Randy Bennett!). Certainly, the recipe for spiraling downward is forming and I wonder how long it will have to go on for changes to happen (<——-that’s my point). Not that they weren’t great, or that they can’t be great again – it’s that they’re headed in the wrong direction and they have certain intangibles (school, location) that can’t be changed. Hopefully the new hoops coach can build off of the Bennett’s success and help keep them strong in hoops. Bill Doba obviously couldn’t do that for Mike Price’s team.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
how long it will have to go on for changes to happen
again, I have no idea, but I think that any team (not just WSU) would have to be absolutely horrible for a very long time.
Again, their hoops program is in uniformly better shape (fan support, AD support, players, recruits, perception, coaching destination, etc) than it was before they hired Dick Bennett and those circumstances turned into a couple of NCAA tournaments, some very good Pac-10 records, and a very very good 2007-2008 season. So it’s no stretch to assume that these vastly superior circumstances will lead to even better results.
In football, we are, what, 10 coaches removed from our last rose bowl team? Obviously, Cal football is much healthier than WSU football, but we have to look at the big picture. WSU has certain disadvantages as we have both discussed, but Cal had a number of unique disadvantages following its 1 win season (alumni apathy, serious lack of institutional support from the university) and we have turned things around. It would have been shortsighted of WSU fans to assume we could never be successful in football back in 2002 (and we had not been to a rose bowl in 45 years then!), just as it would be shortsighted for us to assume the same now about WSU
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by CBKWit on Apr 10, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
so everyone knows, I think the best thing for the Pac10 is to see Wazzu to be competitive again in football, maintain their success in football, and retain some promising coaches. I’m certainly willing to see them attempt to get better, as they’ve been patient with us. In fact, they deserve extra patience for actually winning with Ryan Leaf and preventing him from being a nutjob while in college.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
I dunno, as bad as it may seem for Wazzu right now, they DO have both a Rose Bowl appearance and Sweet 16 appearance in the last decade, neither of which Cal has tasted. Things can turn around, and while I can’t think what their reasons might be, thousands of students do decide to attend Washington State every year. All they need is for a few of those students to be exceptionally talented basketball players, right?
I wonder what Gonzaga has going for it in Spokane that Wazzu doesn’t have that allows them to build a Successful Basketball Program that would almost certainly survive and even thrive should Mark Few finally make the leap everyone keeps expecting him to.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
Answer:
John Stockton. I think that little bit of basketball tradition helps. Beating up on teams in a weaker conference also helps. But you’re right, WSU can certainly achieve what Gonzaga has done.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
I’m not asking for people to look backwards, I’m asking for people to look forwards into the future.
Gonzaga’s also a bit different. It is private and thus attracts That Crowd. It’s in Spokane which is different than rural Pulman. It’s focused it’s resources into one sport and they play in the WCC.
The closest university to Wazzou is U. of Idaho and they play in the WAC.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by CalBandGreat on Apr 10, 2009 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
Wow, that is incredibly harsh considering that there football team had one terrible year, and there basketball team was quite decent this very year. By your logic, Cal would have been kicked out of the Pac-10 about 20 times.
by Tedfordisgod on Apr 10, 2009 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions
Wow, just doubled out on the wrong form of the word their. I’m an idiot.
by Tedfordisgod on Apr 10, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions
For all intensive purposes, it wood be who of you to check what you right be four you pose tit.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions
gah....one of my pet peeves is the non word "irregarless"
tit
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Apr 10, 2009 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t mean to be harsh, I’m just trying to have a discussion about an issue that I think is important.
No, by my logic Cal would stay because it always had that potential with the success of the university (No. 1 public university) and Berkeley being a desirable place to live. Pulman does not have that whatsoever.
No one has answered my question: How many losing seasons coupled with successful seasons of neighboring progams would it take for some type of Pac10 shift? I guess all of you are saying “never” and from a historical perspective I hope you are right. Things change and we have a new snooty Commish who has no previous ties to the Pac10 whatsoever. I imagine networks and bowl commisioners would be very excited about a lean, mean Pac10.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
To answer your question:
I imagine it would take a long, long time, and Wazzu would basically have to become non-competitive in a whole host of sports, including both Football and Men’s Basketball. Remember, Oregon State football had 28 consecutive losing seasons fairly recently, and they’re still around.
I think the Pac-10, because of its rivalry-based configuration, has a very solid membership roster, and it would take a fairly significant upheaval to change that. Remember, these 10 teams have been together since 1978, the longest stretch of membership stability in Division I-A. Wazzu wasn’t a charter member of the PCC in 1916, but they have been associated with the historical conference (almost continuously) since 1917, longer even than Stanford.
Wanna see what it would take to get kicked out of a major conference? Take a look at Temple, which was asked to leave the Big East a few years back. Not only were they consistently non-competitive on the field, but they really lacked the resources to even attempt to compete in terms of facilities and financing. It became a situation where the association of Temple with the rest of those schools no longer made any sense. I think Wazzu, even if things continue to go south for them, is still a long way from approaching that status.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
by ragnarok on Apr 10, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
5+ years without a win
That’s the kind of performance it would have to take. They’d have to go 0-9 in Pac-10 play for more than 5 years without any hope of coming out of the death spiral. Assuming they were reasonably competitive in other sports, those 5+ years would probably only get them a “hey, you need to get your football act together”. To really get the boot they’d have to have similar incompetence at both men’s and women’s B-Ball or more like 10+ years of no wins in football.
We often forget that there is a lot more to the Pac-10 than just football and men’s basketball.
To add to Rag’s Temple example, look at how Duke performs in football in the ACC. They routinely lose all of their games in conference play. But being a basketball contender, as well as in other sports, keeps them in.
by kencraw on Apr 10, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Well said Rag
I most definitely agree with the over-emphasis and the problems it causes. However, I think it’s very difficult to do it any other way. I commented at length about it on my blog:
nice response, Ken
Unfortunately, you make a very good case as to why this will probably never change. Identifying problems is often a lot easier than identifying solutions, isn’t it?
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
Cal football is the perfect example
The more I think about it, the more I think Cal is the perfect example for why it will never change:
-Great location.
-Incredible Academics (and diverse).
-Huge and wealthy alumni base. (Perhaps the best in DI football?)
-Through the 50’s a wonderful winning tradition.
Going into the 60’s it had everything a successful program needs. What more could you want? Nevertheless, it all falls apart with a string of mediocre head coaches. The only thing that brings it back is Tedford.
Of course with a couple of BCS appearances (hopefully) and completing the SAHPC in the the coming years, it will be a much more sustainable program where a good/proven coach can be lured to Berkeley when Tedford leaves (retirement, etc.), but it doesn’t change that it all started with Tedford.
You know, when I originally read that title, I thought you were putting out a job ad
“Will work for puritans and Buddhists only.”
If Harvard or MIT were to steal away the head of one of our highly successful academic departments, would anyone panic that the program would then slide into mediocrity? No, of course not. It would be a blow, sure, but plenty of highly-prized professors would remain, as would the world class facilities and the extensive and valuable alumni network. A search committee would look for a suitable replacement, and someone plenty capable would be found. Perhaps the program would suffer a slight dip, but no more than that.
I agree with this. It has, in fact, been a significant problem at Berkeley. As we all know, Cal’s the top public university, and is in the Top 15-25 nationally. It does, however, lose faculty to deep pocketed private schools.
Whenever you see professors with weird titles:
“Francis K. Bergstrom Professor of Chemistry”
it means someone donated a ton of money to the university to retain a faculty member whom the university deemed as important to the community. You see these type of professors around Cal at times, but they are much more common in private schools. In some cases it could increase their salary by 2-5 fold.
Cal, led by G.N. Lewis (of Lewis Dot Structure fame), had Ernest Lawrence and Glenn Seaborg among others make tremendous strides in physical and nuclear chemistry. Nobel Prize winners would literally be rubbing elbows as they advanced The Cause. Cal was THE PLACE for science throughout the 40’s, 50’s and early 60’s. This is not the case anymore. While Cal has remained at the top, it’s a significant step down. To use a football analogy, it would be like USC winning the conference every year with 2 or 3 league losses year after year.
Part of this is a change in focus: we needed nuclear bombs for WWII. Cal has 3 NP’s in Physics and Chemistry since ‘68 while it had 10 before that. I like that they’re trying to adapt to The New Thing (Energy), but I worry that’s a problem that won’t really get solved by academic scientists. It has been definitely hamstrung by state and federal government funds.
Heaps and Hinder...come on down!
Well, it could be argued that no university is THE place for any particular field, considering how much collaboration there is. It isn’t as though one particular university has stolen our thunder, more just that dozens of others have risen to relevance. Which, in the long run, is much more beneficial to society at large.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
it could be argued that no university is THE place for any particular field, *these days,
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
it could be argued that no university is THE place for any particular field, *these days,
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reply failing motherfucking piece of shit motherfucker
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions
Brain fail.
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by Spazzy Mcgee on Apr 10, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Maybe it’s just me, but I find lying and hypocrisy to be a much bigger sins than forthrightly chasing one’s money-grubbing self-interest. If a coach wants to leave for what he considers a better job, that’s his right, but he best have prepared his players for that eventuality.
What a nicely veiled dig at Slick Rick.
Honestly, it wasn’t a dig at any one particular coach, though it could be applied to far too many coaches to bother listing them.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
by ragnarok on Apr 10, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs

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