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Pac 10 Freshman of the Year debate (w/Poll)

There are many storylines and subplots to consider as we head into the final regular season game.  One of the most interesting is the upcoming “Battle in Seattle” of two strong Pac 10 Freshman of the Year candidates.  I wanted to look at their cases, along with several other contenders for the award.  I am also interested in how fans of other teams vote, so I will put this FanPost on each site.

Star-divide

My first criterion is the Name Test.  Have I heard of you? I know this is the least statistically sound way to evaluate somebody, but it is necessary to cut down the field of freshmen to the at least occasional impact players. I have "heard" of some other freshmen than listed here, by the way, but I can't include everyone.  Here is the initial list (I did have to pore over rosters to remember some of the players):

Kyle Fogg (Arizona)

Jorge Gutierrez (Cal)

Garrett Sim (Oregon)

Michael Dunigan (Oregon)

Josh Crittle (Oregon)

Jeremy Green (Stanford)

Malcolm Lee (UCLA)

Jrue Holiday (UCLA)

J'mison Morgan (UCLA)

DeMar DeRozan (USC)

Leonard Washington (USC)

Isaiah Thomas (UW)

Klay Thompson (WSU)

 

Second, I think it is fair to eliminate any player who does not contribute at least fifteen minutes per game.  Obviously the top contenders will play much more, but this is more of an initial step:

Jorge Gutierrez

Garrett Sim

Michael Dunigan

Josh Crittle

Jeremy Green

Malcolm Lee

Jrue Holiday

J’mison Morgan

DeMar DeRozan

Leonard Washington

Isaiah Thomas

Klay Thompson

 

I think it would be fair to say that this list contains the only people who will receive any votes this year.  Next let’s look at some per-game statistics.  Before stat geeks sets their hair on fire, I didn’t want to sort through Ken Pomeroy’s tempo-free stats for 10 different players, but I will use his stats in narrowing the field eventually.  Let’s start with saying the players must average at least 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 2.5 assists. I kind of decided those arbitrarily, so I will include people which are much higher in one but lower in another (this also helps account for different positions).  Before I completely eliminate someone, I will double check things like defensive stats and efficiency (in this case, points per shot).

Kyle Fogg (slightly lower than cutoff in each category but very efficient)

Jorge Gutierrez

Garrett Sim

Michael Dunigan (lower assists, but good overall stats)

Jeremy Green

Jrue Holiday (more assists, fewer rebounds)

DeMar DeRozan (more points, fewer assists)

Leonard Washington

Isaiah Thomas (more points, fewer rebounds)

Klay Thompson (more points, fewer assists)

 

So we are down to six.  Now let’s start looking at tempo-free stats. I’ll list some relevant KenPom stats for each player. Unfortunately at this point I have to switch from conference-only statistics to against all competition.  Ken often uses stats that are adjusted for the level of competition, though not all of them are, but hopefully we’ll still get an accurate picture of how good the players are.  Red text is national rank for all college players. (Click on picture for larger version)

   3333033627_d37223e58e_o_medium

 

via farm4.static.flickr.com

 

Offensively, Fogg appears to be the best, but note that he is rarely involved in possessions.  He doesn’t shoot much, though when he does shoot he makes them, doesn’t do a lot of rebounding or assisting, but gives up a lot of turnovers.  Less than great defensive numbers just add to the arguments against him, so I’m saying he goes. 

Dunigan is more the opposite, with the best defensive numbers of the remaining players.  Note that he is the lowest in minutes, probably because he is the highest in fouls committed.  He also draws a lot of fouls, but judging by his TS% I would guess he doesn’t make too many free throws.  Great rebounder but a turnover machine.  Pretty much everything about his profile screams "talented but makes typical freshman mistakes." I say he goes as well.

Thomas and Thompson both take the most scoring opportunities on their teams and do pretty well with those chances.  DeRozan is close behind and Holiday shoots better but less often.  Thomas is the outlier (in a bad way) in rebounding.  Thomas and Holiday both have essentially the same assist and turnover rates, both high, while DeRozan turns over far more often, and Klay is better but not quite as good as the first two.  Defensively, it looks to be about a wash between Klay and Holiday, with Thomas a little behind and DeRozan bringing up the rear.  I think we can eliminate DeRozan now.

To pick a winner from the last three players is definitely subjective.  Just by the stats, I think you’d have to go with Holiday.  He is the best shooter, rebounder, assister and defender.  His only real downside is that he also has the most turnovers.  Considering more than stats, however, you have to note that he is probably the 3rd or 4th option on his team offensively, UCLA’s man to man defense is so good that Holiday can play the passing lanes to get a good steal rate, and he’s probably playing on the team with the most talent in the starting 5. 

Thomas’s main arguments statistically are that he plays more minutes than Holiday, uses far more possessions (thus is more important to his team), and draws a ridiculous 6.4 fouls per 40 minutes.  He constantly gets the other team in foul trouble, which is incredibly important against teams with limited depth.  Subjectively, he was "the missing piece" to the UW puzzle, leading them from 8th last year to 1st this year.  He has allowed Dentmon to slide over to his more natural shooting guard position, and consistently draws weak side help defenders, providing plenty of opportunities for Brockman down low.  Much of the support for Thomas comes from evidence that does not always show up in statistics.

Thompson is the best of the three in only four categories – minutes, committing fouls, blocking, and not turning the ball over.  Please note that each of these categories is a rate, meaning that his avoidance of fouling and turnovers is not directly related to WSU’s slow pace.  On statistics alone, he is close or ahead of Thomas in everything except assists and drawing fouls, and I think you could argue that Klay wins the statistical battle here and is only slightly behind Holiday. Judging from the minutes played, Klay is the most important to his team in terms of depth, as the dropoff after him on the bench is significant. 

So how would YOU vote? By the stats, Holiday is the winner.  By "importance to team," you could go with Klay or Thomas.  Thomas is the key to the UW offense, and UW is first in the league, but he also has a lot more talent around him than WSU provides (though less than UCLA).  Vote now!

 

Poll
Who deserves the 2008-2009 Pac 10 Freshman of the Year?
Jrue Holiday
6 votes
Isaiah Thomas
37 votes
Klay Thompson
3 votes
DeMar DeRozan
1 votes
Someone else
9 votes

56 votes | Poll has closed

The opinions expressed in a FanPost are, in every way, reflective of the opinions of every California Golden Blogs Marshawnthusiast. Moreover, they are reflective of every employee of SBNation, including Tyler "Blez" Bleszinski.

Comment 28 comments  |  0 recs  | 

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I don’t see Quizz Rodgers on that list.

JAI HO!

by Rishi on Mar 6, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions  

is that a wazzou flag on top of the Space Needle? Awesome!

Marshawn...if you're reading this...I'll JOIN YOUR POSSE FOR FREE! Dave Chappelle says every group of brothas needs a white dude for safety in case the shit goes down (which it allegedly has with you several times) and someone needs to talk to the pol-ece.

by carp on Mar 6, 2009 12:03 PM PST reply actions  

Yes it is

It was the reward for a competition between UW and WSU alumni for raising money for Hurricane Katrina victims. WSU won the donation war 11-2 ($$$$/day for 13 days), and the roof of the Space Needle was painted crimson and gray for Apple Cup Weekend.

GO COUGS!

Tony Bennett for Heisman!

by johnnycougar on Mar 6, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Flagged

For eliminating Jorge way too soon and not including him in the poll.

by danzig on Mar 6, 2009 12:05 PM PST reply actions  

Flagged

For pissing danzig off.

JAI HO!

by Rishi on Mar 6, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Flagged

because “Pure Mexican Gumption” is not a tempo-free statistic

Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson

by Thoroughbred on Mar 6, 2009 12:11 PM PST reply actions   1 recs

I voted for Jorge (someone else) obviously, but...

of the one’s you listed:
1. Thomas
2. Thompson
3a. Holiday
3b. DeRozan

Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson

by Thoroughbred on Mar 6, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions  

You know what

True Story: I included “someone else” specifically because I knew when I posted this that you guys would give me crap about not having Jorge.

Side Note True Story: Jorge was my “Spanish” name in Spanish 3/4 in high school.

Tony Bennett for Heisman!

by johnnycougar on Mar 6, 2009 1:17 PM PST reply actions  

Mine was Carlos. Carlos fucking rocks…

Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson

by Thoroughbred on Mar 6, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Mine was Jesus. It fits.

TYRANNICAL KING OF UC EUGENE! BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEATTLE QUACKER!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 6, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I got it on Netflix last week. Ill look forward to watching it.

TYRANNICAL KING OF UC EUGENE! BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEATTLE QUACKER!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 6, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Eight-year-olds, Dude.

by zoonews on Mar 6, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, well, that’s like, your opinion, man.

I'm Fijian. Yes, the water is like that.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 6, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

man, all i gotta say is, none of these kids would have been in the Top 3 last year. maybe not even Top 5.

So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!

by ragnarok on Mar 6, 2009 1:32 PM PST reply actions  

Tough to vote against Isaiah. He’s almost like the second coming of Isaiah Thomas.

TYRANNICAL KING OF UC EUGENE! BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEATTLE QUACKER!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 6, 2009 1:40 PM PST reply actions  

Thomas is going to win FOY going away.

Washington won the conference because of him.

I don’t even know who Klay Thompson is, so maybe I’m not qualified.

by Tedfordisgod on Mar 6, 2009 2:12 PM PST reply actions  

Klay Thompson is really good

He’s like Low, but with a better handle and more athletic. And only a freshman. Also taller.

www.californiagoldenblogs.com

by CBKWit on Mar 6, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions  

He is very similar to Jrue Holiday. Or at least his parents are. At spelling.

TYRANNICAL KING OF UC EUGENE! BRING ME THE HEAD OF SEATTLE QUACKER!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Mar 6, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

:::in Madden voice:::

That joke was there. And this guy just took it and ran with it.

Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson Robert Woods Anthony Jefferson

by Thoroughbred on Mar 6, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

well played.

It's spelled "M-A-R-C-H-I-N-G-B-A-N-D."

I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Mar 6, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions  

heh

I'm Fijian. Yes, the water is like that.

by Spazzy Mcgee on Mar 6, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

Jorge Gutierrez

This is the California Golden Blogs. Therefore, the guy from California wins.

by CalBear81 on Mar 6, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions  

If only defensive freshman of the year was a category!

Hip Hip Jorge would win that one going away.

Does the Pac-10 even have a defensive player of the year? If they don’t they need to fix that.

The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS

by norcalnick on Mar 6, 2009 7:42 PM PST reply actions  

damn straight

and now they’re on the same nba team, and i think it’s obvious who is the better defender!

Tony Bennett for Heisman!

by johnnycougar on Mar 7, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

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