Who Were the Worst Performers in the Pac-10 in 2009?
by Avinash on Dec 16, 2009 6:30 AM PST
in Football
102 comments
It's always hard to measure the value of good teams in football. It almost always starts with a good quarterback, followed closely behind by an offensive line and a running back. Then you want a strong front seven, with receivers and secondary coming somewhere after that. You can build a good team around the front four, a great one with everything else coming together
So in determining a football MVP (or I guess for college football, Heisman), we're looking at people from the first three or four categories strongly. In the next two days we'll start counting down the best players and o-line/defensive units in the conference to try and figure out who deserves to be the Pac-10's most valuable player
That's right, instead of doing a national college football consensus (which would be tedious and terrifying), let's go with what we know well. This is all Pac-10.
Because most of us are sick inside, we'll start with the worst Pac-10 performers. What player or unit (offensive line, particular aspect of defense, coach, other thing, etc.) do you feel played the worst this season? Did I leave anyone off that requires mention? Discuss in the comments!
USC--Matt Barkley
Wait a second. Didn't Barkley just beat Ohio State in the Horseshoe? Nothing can stop him now! He's on his way to college football greatness!
Anyway, it seems like Carroll's petty anger at Mark Sanchez was a bad sign of things to come. I'm not saying that Sanchez could've saved USC from the avalanche at Autzen, but he should've outdueled Luck and Foles with essentially the same offense from last year. It would've been a B- version of the 2005 team, all offense and average defense. And they'd probably have ended up in Tempe.
If Sanchez was like an ice cream sundae at Fenton's (a little bad here and there, but still a tasty ride the whole way), Barkley was like a strawberry cream pie shake at Sonic's (tantalizing at first taste, but man would it make you sick down the road). He threw the most interceptions in the Pac-10, more than Sullivan, Prince, and any of the Wazzu troupe. His four turnovers in the Cardinal romp led to 28 Furd points, and he threw another killer pick against Arizona that led to what turned out to be a crucial seven points for the Wildcats. His 4th quarter stats were abominable--50% completion rate, one touchdown, SEVEN interceptions, 83 passer rating, which is good for 117th in the country, only about a drop of about a hundred in the rankings from the season before. His most memorable touchdown throw of the year was only meaningful in the sense that UCLA's defense will be headhunting him in eleven months.
Add in these continuing rumors from Thoroughbred that many of his teammates despise him, and all is not well at Heritage Hall for the first time in...well, a decade. The rest of the Pac-10 couldn't be more delighted.
Note: Thought about the Trojan run defense here, but come on, those guys got DECIMATED (entire front seven gone, plus another four or five guys injured). They had no chance against the Quack Attack or the power run game of the Furd.
UCLA--The entire Bruin offense
Man, it was brutal watching these guys this year.
- 3.55 rushing YPA (97th)
- 116 rushing yards per game (99th)
- 34% 3rd down conversion rate (100th)
- Around 18 first downs per game (99th)
- 5.1 yards per play (87th)
- 339 yards per game (88th)
- 113 passer rating (102nd)
- 56% completion rate (84th)
- 21.3 points per game (99th)
- 25 touchdowns (109th)
- 36% touchdown conversion rate in red zone (119th)
- There were four teams in the Pac-10 (Oregon, Arizona, USC, Cal) who had two rushers that ran for more than UCLA's leading rusher (Johnathan Franklin)
- The Bruins leading man in yards for scrimmage was Nelson Rosario, who finished 19th overall. There were seven teams in the Pac-10 with two or more players with more yards from scrimmage, and four (Furd, Oregon State, Arizona St., Oregon) with three.
- Navy threw the ball 96 times this year, Army 161 (http://www.cfbstats.com/2009/leader/national/team/offense/split01/category02/sort06.html), Kevin Prince 267. Navy and Army scored 5 touchdowns apiece on those passes. Prince scored 6. Somewhere Norm Chow is wringing his neck (could be either Prince's neck or his own).
- The USC game perfectly encapsulates UCLA's offensive abilities: To prevent from being shutout by their crosstown rivals, the Bruins needed a 13 play, 65 yard, five and a half minute drive that included two fourth down conversions, and two forced fumbles.
- Bruins fans are actually calling on Kevin Craft for the bowl game. Yes, THAT Kevin Craft. (Okay, they only want him to start because he wasn't happy at playing hookie, but still). You know your offense is in desperate straits when your fans are ACTIVELY CALLING for Kevin Craft.
Exactly the same thing we did for UCLA. Let's just rattle off the numbers...
- 4.49 rushing YPA (89th)
- 252 passing YPG (105th)
- 63% completion rate (104th)
- 139 passer rating (95th)
- 396 yards per game (85th)
- 52 tackles for loss (111th)
- 7 interceptions (103rd)
- 6 yards allowed per play (T-92nd)
- 42% 3rd down conversion rate (90th)
A few examples of their defensive fails:
- Their defense never forced a fourth down in the first half at Corvallis; five times Oregon State got the ball, five times they marched down the field and put points on the board, 31 in all.
- The Cardinal surrendered not one, but two 40+ yard rushing touchdowns to Arizona to blow a two score lead in the 4th quarter, the last one on a 50+ yard scamper by Nwoko on THIRD AND SEVENTEEN.
- The Cardinal took a 14-0 lead on the Bears with 6 minutes left in the first quarter; Cal responded by holding onto the ball for 35 of the final 50 minutes, including ripping off 24 unanswered points and scoring on five of their next six drives.
Yeesh. Maybe Gerhart did deserve the Heisman. But we'll get to the MVP candidates soon enough.
Oregon State's September swoon
This isn't really a unit fail as opposed to a team fail; the Beavers suck in September EVERY SINGLE YEAR. They could never get going against Cincinnati even though they were at home. They allowed Nick Foles in his starting debut in Corvallis to complete 74% of his passes at 7.5 YPA with 3 touchdowns and no picks. And they needed a last second Kahut field goal to beat a 5-7 UNLV squad. And these guys plan to play TCU in Dallas and Boise in the Smurf Turf next September? Cal's pass defense not named Syd'Quan Thompson
108th in passing yards given up; 103rd in completion percentage; 81st in passer rating. The Bears dropped from 3rd in the country in INTs to 71st, from 1st in the country in passes defended to 47th. So let's say they regressed a little.
(You might say the offensive line deserves this...but Cal still ranked top 40 in rushing yards per game and top 25 in yards per attempt. You might even say the special teams, but they didn't have as much impact as our defense, plus their general incompetence over the past half-decade deserves its own post. A lot of that had to do with Best and Vereen, but that's still only a mediocre unit, not an awful one. Nothing hurt the Bears more in 2009 than their pass defense...the offensive line just exacerbated the situation.)
Ultimately though, Holt's defense still provided us with the most comical college football moment of 2009, which could've been the difference between Locker and his first bowl game...
I retract anything positive I said about Danny Sullivan. Not only are you not physically talented enough to start for a Pac-10 team, but as you proved last night, you’re what we call in my family a "mental midget."
..
Instead, you exhibited the same physical problems we saw in each of the Sun Devils first three games. You sailed balls, you completely missed wide open receivers and left your pass catchers out to dry with several horribly thrown balls. Your most accurate pass was one you threw away in the 3rd quarter that perfectly nailed the "C" on the Muscle Milk sign on the side of the east bleachers.
Oregon: LeGarrette Blount?
He's probably the Ducks Least Valuable Player. I'm not happy stating it since the dude got a huge punishment for a totally surreal moment, but he redeemed himself, so that's always good.
But I put a question mark there...because for not-so-obvious reasons, you could make the case that he's the unintentional Pac-10 MVP. Why?
1) The Punch changed the whole Oregon running dynamic. For nearly a month Oregon struggled to get past the rust, but slowly things started to click and their offense got back in sync for the Utah game; once James and Masoli started operating in tandem the Quack Attack began rolling.
So...does Oregon win close games versus Purdue and Utah if Blount is in the backfield? Do the Ducks slow the pace down against Cal, USC, UCLA, Arizona State, Arizona and Oregon State instead of attacking, attacking, attacking? Does James get going at all? Does Barner break out as a pure speed demon? Would Oregon have gone 10-2 without the Punch? I doubt it. In a strange way, Blount's actions made his team BETTER in the long run--the Ducks were able to play that fast up-tempo offense that Kelly relished, and they blew through the Pac-10 relatively unscathed.
(I will always believe that if the Bears had played Blount and Masoli that we could've snuck that game out--not necessarily won, but the opportunity would've been there. We could've bottled up Blount the way we held Gerhart in check, play deliberate 3-4 football and wait for Blount to find the hole before matching him at the line of scrimmage. Of course, we still wouldn't have been able to defend Ed Dickson, but at least it's a step up from defending no one.)
2) The media hatefest gave the Ducks an 'us against the world' mentality. You can't underestimate the power of ESPN and the Internet on these guys--when Oregon became the dominant storyline of the opening college football weekend, when they heard about how they stunk and that their coach should be fired...it's not implausible they didn't rally around the hate and use it to fuel their overall mission. It's hard for me to say that Chip Kelly didn't use that to motivate the Ducks to play better, execute better, keep the pace going; they only let down once (the Cardinal), rolled everyone else and delivered in what amounted to Rose Bowl quarter and semifinals against Arizona and Oregon State.
If it had just been an awful loss the Ducks would've been forgotten by the national media--the Punch gave it the attention, gave Oregon the fire they needed to run through the rest of the season. It was the perfect black swan event. Everything went wrong on the first day of the season, and the Ducks spent the next three months trying to prove that it was an aberration. Didn't do too shabby, did they?
Of course, you could say he would've been theoretically least valuable; were the Ducks a better team if Blount wasn't playing? We'll never totally know, but the fact they barely missed a beat without him says a lot. They probably beat the Furd with him, but do they blow out USC, Cal, Arizona State, Washington and UCLA? I'm not so sure about that.
So Blount gets his team's LVP...only because the rest of the Ducks played like MVPs the rest of the year. For some reason, I feel he won't mind it that much.
Tomorrow: Pac-10 MVP honorable mentions
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Matt Barkley
Do you mean to suggest that it’s actually difficult to find and develop good QB’s on a consistent basis? No way.
Dude, didn’t you watch the Ohio State game? He’s a legend in the making. ESPN told me so.
Plus Jesus talks to him. Jesus talked to Tebow too. Coincidence?
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Dec 16, 2009 6:56 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
+1 haha.
I believe that was in the Book of random ESPN announcer 3:16
by USAFGoldenBear on Dec 16, 2009 12:05 PM PST up reply actions
Is K-rizzle up in this? No? Huh.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
He wasn’t great, but he wasn’t that bad either…made some weird throws, doesn’t complete enough throws and had a stinkbomb against USC, but other than that he’s been around average (the big thing is he doesn’t throw picks and he can scramble alright).
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Well the way I see it, his Oregon (39%) and Washington (44%) games were stink bombs too. Zona was a 2-pick-in-the-red-zone game, and OSU featured Riley completing 56% of his passes when his team needed him most. That’s 5/9 ‘bad’ league games. He had nice games against 3 bad conference teams and 3 bad OOC teams, and a gritty (“fuck it, we won”) game vs. Stanfurd.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Factoring in the Barkley’s a true freshman and Riley’s a RS jr (iirc), then I think I’d be inclined to take Riley over Barkley in this game. Neither are as bad as Danny Sullivan though.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Barkley’s OL was thousands of times better than Riley’s… it’s hard even to compare the two given the amount of time Barkley got to chill in the pocket and the number of times Riley had to run screaming like a chicken with his head cut off (i have no doubt this affected him mucho). Riley was lights out for most of the Furd game (some sportswriter even tweeted he was ‘on fire’ for a few of those drives — much better than his opposite who had been wanked off all week). Come on, dudes…can someone come up with the sacks against stats? i remember Barkley not getting sacked by Oregon for a long time, whereas Riley got walloped on the very first play and pretty much ever drop back thereafter.
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
Thank you
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions
i forgot to mention that USC’s receiving corps have two 1st/2nd round picks THIS YEAR in Williams and McCoy… can’t really say the same about our WRs, although I felt they improved a good deal this year
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
I’m fairly certain Riley could throw the ball 10 feet over their heads too hiyo!
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
you act like he does this every play… are you really this hardheaded about it?
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
No, but I can’t say he’s above Barkley on this list Pac10 disappointments.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I’ll grant you that. My opinion is that Riley disappointed big time in the USC game, but I think Barkley’s end to the season (against ASU, Zona, Furd) was more disappointing apples to apples.
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions
Um, the title of the post is:
Who Were the Worst Performers in the Pac-10 in 2009?
Not:
list Pac10 disappointments
by Missing Barry on Dec 16, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions
Why can’t he fall under both?
Look, all I’m saying is you can’t rip Barkley if you don’t rip Riley. As I said before, he had 5/9 bad league games – 5/8 if you consider everyone has a fairly good game against Wazzu. He did have a very nice game at UCLA which featured a defense with Price, Carter, and Verner. This year it appears he’d be a very good non-BCS conference QB…hopefully next year he can show he can be a very good BCS conference QB.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
There were outside factors to Riley having trouble this year-bad offensive line play, receivers struggling to run routes and dropping balls, etc. He didn’t have a fantastic season, but he wasn’t terrible this year either.
Barkley had a great O-line and great receivers, and although there were some injuries this was still a pretty talented team. He killed the Trojans down the stretch with his mistakes.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
You’re really annoying the fuck out of me with your Riley hatred. You have almost no basis other than you want Sweeney
In other words, Go Bears!
I think he’s just joking around…
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 17, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I’m sorry I’ve annoyed the fuck out of you. I’ve liked your input, DBD tweets, etc, and I didn’t expect this reaction from you. I don’t think I’ve said anything that’s not true about Riley. I haven’t mentioned Sweeney in this post but I’d be happy to now that you brought it up.
My points on Sweeney, I believe, are misunderstood by you and perhaps others. During the 3 awful Riley performances (and they were awful) and two OOC blowouts, I would have liked to see Sweeney throw more passes than he did. The point of this is the following:
- You don’t REALLY know what you have until you give someone a shot in a packed house with a real opponent. Practice is great and all, but it’s not the same. One could look at Shaun Hill (poor practice performer for the 9ers, average-above average gameday QB) and Shane Vereen (definitely option 1b or 2, but looked very impressive as option 1a/1) as examples of this.
- It allows the backup to build on his strengths and improve on his weaknesses over the offseason
- You might really have a gem
- Lights a fire under the starter regardless of their performance
- I suspect, and it’s pure speculation, that the other underclassmen are more accurate passers. I think Tedford values this, but values leadership, command of the huddle, etc moreso. I think I disagree with him on this if this is in fact true, but I have no idea.
I should note that my idea is NOT what Tedford did in the 2008 season with Riley/Longshore flip flopping whoever had the better practice week, threw INT’s in the 1st half, or couldn’t get away from the pass rush.
Critics, I suppose, would say that it messes with the continuity of the offense (as it likely did in 2008). However, in blowout losses either a) the starters don’t have continuity anyways (see: scoreboard) or b) they’re being pulled or rotated in/out with others. Ibid the latter point regarding blowout wins.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
You put it that way and I understand. I will disagree with you on the last bullet point mainly based on what I saw at the Spring Camp but since we both know next to nothing that’s not saying much.
What I was under the impression was that you believed that Riley was just not that good and we should cut our losses and put in Sweeney/Mansion. And that you believed his performance against USC/OR/UW proved that. My disagreement was that in all of these losses he was not helped by his O-line, WR drops, stupid penalties, a defense that was like swiss cheese, etc. Yes he was atrocious against USC but keep in mind this was his first start against USC (only played about 1/2 a game last year IIRC) and this is his first year as a true starter.
Sorry for the misunderstanding.
In other words, Go Bears!
by royrules22 on Dec 17, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
They also hurried Riley another six times, along with the five sacks…hard to have a normal game when you’re always eating turf.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
They’re kept at cfbstats.com under the Misc. defense category for each team…and I think you can find them on some statsheets.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Ahh they have them by team but not by conference…thanks.
by HolmoePhobe on Dec 17, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
how about including Riley/Cal’s O-line then?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
what are you asking?
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions
to include Riley/Cal’s o-line in Pac10 worst performers.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Statistically Riley was the #5 Pac-10 quarterback (a few quarterback efficiency points off of #3), and managed that behind lousy pass protection. So basically what I’m saying here is alright we get it you don’t like Riley. Get over it.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
Hey I like Riley just fine, I’m just not a homer.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Maybe you aren’t a homer, but you sure as fuck are thick headed. Riley is a middle-tier Pac-10 QB (and that’s saying something) is mere fractions away from being one of the top. And he accomplished this despite playing behind one of the worst O-lines in the conference!
In other words, Go Bears!
And your evidence for him being “middle-tiered” is supported by what performances in the Pac10 play? UCLA game was a good one, as I acknowledged here. We agree that performances against Wazzu aren’t noteworthy. That leaves us with 3 awful Riley games (USC, Oregon, UDub), two other poor games given his results wrt what was needed (OSU, Arizona), a gritty game vs Stanfurd that I acknowledged, and the nice game vs. 9-loss ASU. If that’s middle-tier for you, then I’d say I was incorrectly expecting a bit more out of the QB position. I’m going to go out on a limb and say Canfield, Masoli, and Locker are in the upper third, Sullivan’s the worst, Teul, Luck, and Barkley are a step ahead of Riley. Teul might not be, but he sure looked good against Cal! :) He at least looked accurate when he came to Berkeley. I suppose you’d have to throw the same excuses in for him as well (line, WR, running game, coaching).
Your point on the o-line is a good one and reasons why it’s pointless to single out one player. If the point of this post was to pick out an LVP/position group for each Pac10 team, I’d go with Cal’s O-line and not Cal’s secondary, passing defense, or Kevin Riley.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
*statistically middle-tier
But if you want to look at it subjectively then by far I’d put Canfield at first with Masoli just barely trailing followed by Locker. Luck/Riley/Barkely is a mixed up jumble in the middle mainly because they all had great performances and horrid performances (USC/UW for Riley, Cal/OSU for Luck, everything after Oregon for Barkely). Tuel is not better than Riley, he only had one good performance: against a depressingly bad Cal defense that happened to take it easy because of the huge lead.
Your point on the o-line is a good one and reasons why it’s pointless to single out one player. If the point of this post was to pick out an LVP/position group for each Pac10 team, I’d go with Cal’s O-line and not Cal’s secondary, passing defense, or Kevin Riley.
I agree with you, which is why I’m telling you to stop calling for Riley’s head! I highly highly doubt that Sweeney could’ve done much better.
In other words, Go Bears!
ahh, I don’t want Riley’s head. I’d be happy if Riley graduates to the next level of QBdom. I have nothing against him. He’s even potentially as dreamy as Kyle Boller.
See my point above re: Sweeney. I hope it clears up my take on our QBs.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
while his o-line play was atrocious at times, there were other times where he held onto the ball too long or failed to quickly go through his progressions which caused him to get a sack.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
Sure, but this didn’t happen nearly as often as the OL failing to protect him… Just like Aaron Rodgers deserved some blame and tweaking to his execution on a few of his sacks but nowhere close to the majority of them.
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
I do agree on one point: The pressure on Riley throughout the course of a game caused him to get scatterbrained and panic even on plays where there wasn’t pressure. I suppose the ability to overcome this fear is an acquired skill, and here’s hoping he puts it and several other ingredients together for 2010 (or that Mansweeney wins out!)
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
So you don’t agree on the points that USC’s OL played at a much, much higher level consistently throughout the year and that his receiving corps has a # of NFL prospects (although this second point doesn’t matter as much in college)?
Football is a team sport, and to me, the blame has to be spread around because each position relies on another. That’s all I’m saying. Riley didn’t have an All Pac-10 year, but he wasn’t close to being horrible in my view considering overall team play.
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
“horrible” is too harsh
but “good” is too strong
“sigh” feels about right
and if I could take Riley or Barkley for the 2010 season (and that season only), it would be Barkley.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
I dunno if one would outperform the other more than marginally. Given USC’s OL this year, I would’ve taken Riley, but I can’t predict how Barkley will perform next year. I still think he’ll be #1 overall pick at some point, so your point makes sense
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions
Riles isn’t, but carp is on my worst performers of the year list…. step up your game, son!
Like cocaine straight from Bolivia.
by Thoroughbred on Dec 16, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions
Barkley
I’m not going to argue that Matt Barkely didn’t drop off down the stretch of the season, because he plainly did, and reignited some people’s fears that the interception machine from his senior year at Mater Dei was more representative of what we had than the 14 year old who was able to start as QB for Mater Dei’s varsity squad (who could give a number of Pac 10 teams something to worry about, most years).
However, I will suggest one mitigating factor was something that was out of his control – the injuries to McCoy (at TE) and Havili (at FB). I can’t conjure up numbers at the moment, but one constant in SC’s offense over the last several years has been the use of the tight end as an additional receiver, to allow an extra alternative in case of pressure from the defense. Havili also plays that role, as well as being a first rate blocker. Take away those two outlets, replace McCoy with Blake Ayles’ defiantly pedestrian performance – missing catches that I might have had a chance at – and you put your 18 year old wunderkind in a position where he’s more likely to stare down receivers and make stupid passes.
Any way you slice it, it was a disappointing season. I need to refresh these numbers for the whole season, but I took a look at offensive and defensive output here, and you can see why Pete Carroll was so miffed about Sanchez leaving early – there’s a clear improvement for every year of continuity with starting players, and Sanchez’s first year was a noticeable improvement over Booty’s second year stats even with fairly conservative pass calling.
Totally fair point
Which is why I kind of skip over the Oregon game; Barkley played alright with what he got.
But the Furd and Zona games…weren’t Havili and McCoy both back? Barkley made some horrible decisions in both games that really took his team out of it. The offense was dead against UCLA and ASU wasn’t much better.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Meh, Freshman QBs always look mortal
Did Barkley ‘disappoint’? I guess it depends on how you define ‘disappoint’. I certainly didn’t buy in to the fact that he was going to be all-world – he’s a true freshman QB.
I think the impression of him underperfoming were some of the ridiculous expectations that were placed on his shoulders, and a lot of sports columnists going “He started at Mater Dei when he was 14! Of COURSE he won’t miss a beat when starting as USC’s quarterback!”, and then suddenly people realizing, hey, college football may actually be kinda’ hard. Duh.
Was he Mark Sanchez this year? Uh, no. But no one should have expected him to be that. I figured he’d have more INTs than TDs this year, because that’s what true freshman QBs do. He actually had 13 TDs and 12 INTs.
I don’t know that Barkely himself was the source of a disappointing season – it was a team effort. It looked like Barkely was making dumber throws by the end of the season but perhaps that was just to try and spark some kind of turnaround. But really, the vast majority of problems were coaching in nature.
Avi,
I really liked your comments about Oregon’s season benefiting from the fallout from the falcon punch; has the ring of truth (or at least plausibility) to it. Hard to imagine a more compelling us-against-the-world narrative for Kelly to use.
Am I known as Cugel the Clever for nothing?
I second Cugel’s thoughts on the falcon punch. LGB as the primo back in that offense is stoppable. He’s a good change of pace back, but too slow to be a key cog in that E-W offense. Point 2 is interesting as well…can’t overestimate emotion in CFB.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
That's Nuts!
This isn’t some rookie receiver or running back. This isn’t some rookie corner that gets picked on by opposing offenses until they torch him. This is pretty much the leader of the team as a 19 year-old…
Any other TRUE freshman QB’s start almost every game in the Pac-10??
{{{{{crickets}}}}}
Yeah, I thought so…
I think Barkley performed better than expected because of the much more difficult level of competition and talent in the Pac-10
Anyone who thought Barkley was going to have a better than average season is out of their mind. You knew at some point he was going to hit a wall. Couple that with a rookie QB coach in regards to being new to the college game (who DID NOT have final say inn the play calling) and there was bound to be a drop off.
The kid played great up until late in the ND game and that pick that changed the momentum of the game was not all on him.
As for PC…
Petty anger?
Really?
It may not have been PC’s finest hour but you gotta love his honesty. He isn’t going to blow smoke up some kids ass like that clown Neuheisel.
Has Pete handled every player move perfectly? No. Is he stubborn to the point of frustrating the fan base? Yes, but I think he kind of knows what he is talking about…He has kind of put a few guys in the NFL the past few seasons and regardless of his success as a head coach he has a very solid feel for the pro game. Living in NYC myself and seeing EVERY Jets game over the past 10 years I think Pete has so far been spot on in regards to how Sanchez would perform.
I get it…Sanchez owed USC nothing. He got his degree in 4 years and he had a great senior season but that doesn’t mean he was ready for the NFL…and because the Jets have sucked for so long there was no doubt that he was going to start. Clemens has been in NY for 3 (?) years (I lost track) and he couldn’t get it done so they bring in the kid…we have seen the results. Yeah, Pete was pissed that Sanchez left and now we know why…he didn’t trust Corp or Mustain and he really wanted Barkley to have one year “carrying the clipboard” before throwing him to the wolves.
Pete has built more than enough equity at USC for all the good he has done than any other coach out there so I will cut him some slack if he lost his cool over Sanchez or if he blew smoke up the media’s ass with his man crush on Barkley.
He protected the kid pure and simple. Tedford, Kelly, Riley, Sark and even Harbaugh would have done the same thing…
But to say Barkley was the worst when you look at all the facts I think is misguided. He is an easy target because 1) He is a true freshman and 2) everyone hates USC so they love to dance on our grave.
I think you could have just as easily picked Taylor Mays for all the hype that was thrown his way if you want to talk about pure production…Anyone think Kevin Ellison who is now playing a significant role on the Bolts had a hand in making Mays look good last year…I do. Mays is a freak of an athlete but Pete had him playing way off the ball and so he was out of position on a lot of plays and went for the blow up hit instead of making the play on the ball or the solid tackle.
But the Furd and Zona games…weren’t Havili and McCoy both back?
Do you think they were 100% I don’t, and neither was Williams when he came back form his injury.
DC was spot on in regards to injuries…I don’t think any other team had as many injuries as much as SC did…that changes the dynamic significantly
Barkley is only going to stay at SC for only 3 years…he is that good and because Corp and Mustain just were not up to snuff (we could have had 6 losses with either of them) PC made the only move he could. It was a roll of the dice and for the most part I think it went OK.
The expectations for USC are higher than any other program in the Pac-10 so it not surprising that when things don’t go as expected people throw themselves out a window or jump off a building. Anyone who saw this team in training camp saw that 4 losses were a good possibility and that is exactly what happened…
Like I said any other player in Pac-10 have a more high profile role or significant impact on his respective team…AS A TRUE FRESHMAN?
{{{{{crickets}}}}}
I though so…
I mostly agree on barkely.
it’s to bad for $c that he seemed to be the only choice.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Dec 16, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions
Paragon
Are you really throwing Mays under the bus? He’s a safety, how much can he affect the game on the defensive end? Plus the USC pass defense was pretty good this year…it was the running defense that got away from them.
Barkley was the worst performer on the team this season. The O-line was good, the receivers were okay, the run defense had a few bad performances but shut down everyone else. Barkley was not very good the last half of the season. It’s nothing against him, he’ll probably come out and kick everyone’s asses in 2010 and no one will remember how bad he was this season.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
I think there was more hype than substance when it comes to Barkley
I think there was more hype than substance when it comes to Barkley. Like I said he is an easy target because of the position he played, the team he is on and the expected result of starting a true freshman.
As for Mays…I am one of the biggest honks for Mays out there. But, I think his poor tackling ability directly attributed to his being injured in the tOSU game and it affected him for the rest of the season thus a poor season. That is not new and I do not think he progressed as much as many as hoped. UW would not have beat us if MAys is in that game…Locker would NOT have had free reign.
There were some other factors as well but I don’t think I am throwing him under the bus. Others see it as well…
Remember all those comparisons to Eric Berry?
How’d that work out??
Safety or not, Mays as a senior and was the leader of this team and such he was one of the most visible players on the team. Go back and look at how the defense gave up against Stanford…
Anyway…just the way I see it. I’m cool if you disagree…
So Mays not being on the field hurt USC? Doesn’t that make him MORE valuable?
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
He was still their best performer on the defense, and they lost their front seven to the NFL and a half-dozen more to injury…I really can’t knock him down.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Agreed...
and because the defense did not perform well in a few games it put a TON of pressure on Barkley (and Bates) to perform with little margin of error.
I realize we can go round and round on this but I think it was a collective lack of all around production that produced a down year. I have a hard time saying a true freshman at the most visible position on the most visible team in the Pac-10 is the worst performance…I mean what did you expect given all we knew going into the season.
Like I said any other player in Pac-10 have a more high profile role or significant impact on his respective team…AS A TRUE FRESHMAN?
Andrew Luck, right?
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 16, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
Whoops you’re right, my mistake, apologies.
Look Paragon I know your reputation, I’ve read your stuff and you’re a classy guy. But honestly, this whole being-pissed-about-Barkley-article-thing? I dunno about anyone else but I’m kinda at care level zero. You guys have had your time to shine. Barkley sucked this year, get over it, there’s another 5-star waiting in the wings.
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 16, 2009 6:20 PM PST up reply actions
Oh we will be back, count on it...
You guys have had your time to shine. Barkley sucked this year, get over it…
Easy to say from your vantage point…
Yes. Yes, it is VERY easy to say from my vantage point. If we had Barkley instead of Ayoob in 2005 we’d be in a BCS bowl!
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 16, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
Wha?
You serious? Barkley wasn’t much better than Ayoob this year.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Is it that far fetched? We were 8-4 that year, and the Pac 10 was very strong…you really think we couldn’t have won 2 more games with not-Ayoob (I’m thinking OSU, UCLA, even Oregon)? That puts us at 10-2 or 11-1 with a loss to #1 USC going into the final weekend…
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 16, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
er going into the bowls….
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 16, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
10-1 (2005 was the last 11 game regular season) with a loss to #1 USC going into the bowls didn’t do Oregon much good that year, to be fair.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
That’s true but did not we have a higher preseason ranking coming out of 2004? Either way, it would have been incredibly close and definitely a hose job if Cal didn’t get in. The point is, we had NFL talent in Stevens, Lynch, a killer OLine including Gibson/Mack, Hawk, Djax, Mebane, Bishop, Hughes. Either way the team was just stacked but for one friggin position, QB, and I definitely think it would have made the difference vs. Oregon and OSU certainly.
I still remember Starkey’s call just before OT against Oregon when our WR was in the endzone: “….and he could not have been more wide open were he standing in the middle of the Willamette River.”
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 17, 2009 12:39 AM PST up reply actions
Good point on the preseason ranking. I don’t think Oregon was ranked at all post getting blown out in Autzen by SC.
(The stars of the o-line that year were Merz/O’Callahan/Phillips, instead of Mack and Gibson. Can’t argue with the quality, though.)
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
I think Barkley performed better than expected because of the much more difficult level of competition and talent in the Pac-10
Anyone who thought Barkley was going to have a better than average season is out of their mind. You knew at some point he was going to hit a wall. Couple that with a rookie QB coach in regards to being new to the college game (who DID NOT have final say inn the play calling) and there was bound to be a drop off.
Is the title of this post dealing with expectations? No. It clearly states:
Who Were the Worst Performers in the Pac-10 in 2009?
That doesn’t take expectations into account. It’s quite simply asking…who performed the worst, and there’s a case for that player to be Barkley. He’s a true freshman….so? Does that mean he played any better than he actually did? No. He may or may not have had more pressure on him. Again, does that mean he played better? No. An interception is an interception, regardless of whether or not it’s “expected”. WSU was supposed to be horrible, are we all of a sudden going to say they don’t deserve a spot on the “worst performers list” because they were expected to be bad? Obviously not, that doesn’t change the fact that they were, in fact, bad.
by Missing Barry on Dec 16, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
I think that is right.
1. There are some interesting issues raised — the virtues of Coach Pete Carroll (or CPC as they say down south), team was decimated by injuries (all the more reason why it needed more from the quarterback than just handing off), Sanchez is struggling (but sure would have been nice to have him back), Barkley’s future greatness (likely), etc.
2. But with respect to the question of performance of the USC quarterback, my sense is that better quarterback play would have gotten them a couple more wins (disclaimer, its not like I actually watched many of the games, so don’t ask me to name which ones) and how many other players in the conference can say that? (Kevin Riley, what do you think about that?) With the strength of the USC factory, lagging at quarterback is a unique vulnerability. Is wins effected a useful metric? Cal’s kick-off team was possibly the worst performers in the conference across all units, but I don’t think they cost any games.
3. More importantly, I have crickets in my basement, too. How can I get rid of them without endangering my baby daughter? Bonus points for environmental responsibility and minimizing cricket carnage.
jh
In re: #2 – the Washington game, and the Arizona game. Actually, giving Stanford 28 points off turnovers was pretty sub optimal as well, but people were so busy watching the defense failing to stop the same 2 plays over and over again, QB turnovers got a bit lost.
As for #3 – if these are cave crickets, you’re never going to get rid of them completely, but glue traps along the wall in high transit locations will cut the population dramatically. If your daughter’s of crawling age, you’ll still have to keep a close eye on her anywhere near the traps, as they tend to be citrus scented.
concur...
8-4 is suddenly 10-2 and that is more than respectable with a TRUE freshman QB.
It is symbiotic, If the defense does their job in some these games it takes the pressure of Barkley to try and do too much.
OTOH if Barkley doesn’t throw 12 picks it would have taken the pressure off a young and decimated defense to make plays.
Heck, you can even point to the coaches as well…
Both matter…which is why I said you could have easily point to TM and the Defense as a an underachieving unit for all their hype. Barkley is an easy target because of what I said above…the player in the most high profile position on the most high profile team in Pac-10 (and most of CFB BTW). My 3-year old could have picked that too.
Exposure is everything…
I’m confused. This defense was hyped? They lost their front seven!!!! Everyone knew they would take a step back this year.
And we’re not arguing perception (i.e. who got overhyped the most?), we’re arguing reality (who killed their team the most with their play?). Oregon and the Furd ran over almost every team in the conference, so it’s hard for me to look at the defense as being the killer.
Barkley’s troubles this season killed the offense. Watching USC’s offense in November and December was like watching Cal’s offense with Ayoob in November. Run run, AGGGH WHY ARE THEY PASSING NOOOOOOOO!!!!
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
How may times have we heard that SC "reloads" not rebuild?
God, I read so much of it I choked…
Regardless of the talent lost there was a ton of talent ready to step up but they didn’t perform as advertised. This could be for many reasons…one reason that I buy into wholeheartedly is that PC was spending so much time on the offense shepherding Bates into the college game that our Rookie DC was not getting the needed attention HE needed to be comfortable in his new role. The message wasn’t getting passed down to the players effectively…see the Oregon game.
There are a lot dynamics here…too many to waste your time on and too many to go into. But they are there…
put the shoe on the other foot...
if this post was about Riley three years ago what would you have said? Performance is always tied to expectations. Rightly or wrongly Barkley was hyped…probably too much, but that’s the way it goes.
Perform better than expectations then you are the hero. Perform worse than expectations then you are the goat.
Yes, an INT is an INT but whom would be more forgiven when that crucial, game changing INT is thrown?
The Kid or the Veteran?
Perspective changes because of expectations, exposure and hype.
Mark Ingram comes to mind…he wasn’t even the best rusher in the SEC but he won the Heisman as a sophomore. But that is a whole other can of worms…
This has nothing to do with hype, it has to do with who the worst performer for each team was this season.
Look at those 4th quarter stats! No one else on USC performed that badly; not the run game, not the run defense, not the special teams, not the pass defense. Barkley was the worst performer on the team, by a wide margin.
Cal’s special teams, their passing game, their offensive line were all suspect, but nothing was as bad as their pass defense, which is why they got the nod.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
I don't need the stats to tell me what I knew BEFORE the season started...he was going to struggle and probably bad
Look, you see it your way I see it mine…
The kid had a lot of hype put upon him, I think that matters when examining the whole result.
You see it differently…that’s cool.
I think we just got
I SAID GOOD DAY SIR-ed
So what can you say?
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 17, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
You see it differently…that’s cool.
I don’t think anyone is really arguing against your point, it’s just that you came over here, to a post written by Avinash about the worst performers in the Pac-10, and argued points that were not in line with the objective of the post. It’s not that you’re wrong – it’s that you (at least initially) were arguing against Avinash’s point based on different criteria than his post laid out….
by Missing Barry on Dec 17, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
Well, better here with the guy who wrote it...
whom I respect tremendously instead of on CC where it would be essentially preaching to the choir…
Paragon, we respect you CC guys so don’t take this the wrong way. This post is to point out who was the worst performer in the Pac-10 in 2009? Avi says it is Matt Barkely. I happen to disagree and say it is Wazzu as a whole, but that’s the easy answer.
Now your argument is that this post is loco because Barkley is a true frosh and thus was expected to struggle. True, but that does take away from the fact that he was mediocre to terrible.
Now if the post was “who were the most disappointing performers in the Pac-10 in 2009” Barkely would not cut it. By far it would have to be Cal’s defense.
In other words, Go Bears!
I don't know... the SC defense looked horrible in a lot of their games this season not just the losses.
Avi says it is Matt Barkely. I happen to disagree and say it is Wazzu as a whole, but that’s the easy answer.
Both are easy targets because of the profile…Barkley because of all the (misplaced) hype Wazzu because everyone knew they were bad.
What about ucla’s D. they looked bad too but because that program as awhole is supposedly in “rebuilding” mode there is a certain amount of slack given. They had some studs on that defense that played horrible at times better in others..
Again, given a choice a heat seeking missile will go after the hottest target…Barkley definitely fit that mold…
…This post is to point out who was the worst performer in the Pac-10 in 2009? Avi says it is Matt Barkely. I happen to disagree and say it is Wazzu as a whole…
Avinash chose a worst performer for each Pac-10 team. He hasn’t handed out a All-Pac-10 dunce cap to the worst performer in the whole conference.
Although, since Barkles and USC are at the top of the list, I can see where this confusion comes from.
Perhaps Paragon’s reaction would have been less vehement had Barkles not gotten first billing in this post. So many what-if’s!!!
"Roll on, you goddamn Bears. Roll on." - Charlton Heston
by Ploppity Drown on Dec 17, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Wait a minute
There was no order. I didn’t rank these guys 1 through 10. It was the worst performer on each team.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
Explain? Other than a few dropped passes against Oregon what else did he fuck up?
In other words, Go Bears!
Didn’t block and didn’t catch, which doesn’t make him much use as a TE in USC’s scheme. He had the chance to step in to the limelight with McCoy’s injury, but his season “highlight” was flipping the bird to a couple of Notre Dame students while they were having their picture taken.
Barkley came unraveled as the season went on, Ayles was never a ball of yarn.
And I’m not trying to discourage you from coming over here to discuss a post, just trying to discourage coming over here and trying to change the subject from “worst” to “biggest disappointment”. If you’re here to argue the case for someone else on the “worst” criteria….well, the more the merrier, right? :)
by Missing Barry on Dec 17, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
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