The definitive Best vs. Quizz stats megapost
Given all of the discussion regarding offensive matchups in this week's game, as well as Danzig's suggestion that the two offenses are basically mirror images of each other, I thought it would be interesting to see how Best and Quizz stack up statistically.
Now, as we all know, Rishi is a strong proponent of Quizz over Best. However, Rishi is also a big fan of lemon drops, the show Friends, and bathing in Axe, all of which contribute to somewhat undermining his credibility.
Clearly the best way to resolve this debate is to look at lots of statistics. Because statistics never lie!
Note: Although I clearly have way too much free time on my hands, I didn't feel upto including all of their receiving data as well. So this is a comparison of Best and Quizz as rushers only.
The uber-basics:
| Carries | Yards | Avg | TD | |
| J. Best | 132 | 838 | 6.3 | 11 |
| J. Rodgers | 172 | 922 | 5.4 | 14 |
(What's with the Js? Is this part of a diabolical ATQ plot to win the Pac-10...?)
Ok, Quizz gets more carries, Best gets more yards per carry, nothing we didn't know. Let's look at their game-by-game records, after the jump...
| Carries | Yards | Avg | Long | TD | ||
| Maryland | 10 | 137 | 13.7 | 73 | 2 | |
| Eastern Washington | 17 | 144 | 8.5 | 30 | 1 | |
| @Minnesota | 26 | 131 | 5 | 33 | 5 | |
| @Oregon | 16 | 55 | 3.4 | 11 | 0 | |
| USC | 14 | 47 | 3.4 | 13 | 0 | |
| @UCLA | 18 | 102 | 5.7 | 93 | 1 | |
| Washington State | 13 | 159 | 12.2 | 61 | 2 | |
| @Arizona State | 18 | 63 | 3.5 | 8 | 0 | |
Jaquizz Rodgers
| Carries | Yards | Avg | Long | TD | ||
| Portland State | 16 | 103 | 6.4 | 43 | 3 | |
| @UNLV | 26 | 166 | 6.4 | 47 | 1 | |
| Cincinnati | 20 | 73 | 3.7 | 24 | 1 | |
| Arizona | 16 | 85 | 5.3 | 19 | 2 | |
| @Arizona State | 17 | 81 | 4.8 | 32 | 2 | |
| Stanford | 33 | 189 | 5.7 | 61 | 4 | |
| @USC | 20 | 113 | 5.7 | 32 | 1 | |
| UCLA | 24 | 112 | 4.7 | 16 | 0 | |
Obviously seeing more consistency from Quizz there, while Best is showing a lot more deviation. More statistics, courtesy of CFBstats.com:
Jahvid Best
| Split | G | Att | Yards | Avg. | TD | Yards/G |
| All Games | 8 | 132 | 838 | 6.35 | 11 | 104.75 |
| at Home | 4 | 54 | 487 | 9.02 | 5 | 121.75 |
| on Road | 4 | 78 | 351 | 4.5 | 6 | 87.75 |
| vs. Conference | 5 | 79 | 426 | 5.39 | 3 | 85.2 |
| vs. Non-Conference | 3 | 53 | 412 | 7.77 | 8 | 137.33 |
| vs. Winning | 3 | 56 | 233 | 4.16 | 5 | 77.67 |
| vs. Non-Winning | 5 | 76 | 605 | 7.96 | 6 | 121 |
| in Wins | 6 | 102 | 736 | 7.22 | 11 | 122.67 |
| in Losses | 2 | 30 | 102 | 3.4 | 0 | 51 |
| vs. Ranked (AP) | 2 | 30 | 102 | 3.4 | 0 | 51 |
| vs. Unranked (AP) | 6 | 102 | 736 | 7.22 | 11 | 122.67 |
| Situation | G | Att | Yards | Avg. | TD | 1st |
| All Plays | 8 | 132 | 838 | 6.35 | 11 | 28 |
| 1st Half | 8 | 86 | 674 | 7.84 | 7 | 22 |
| 2nd Half/OT | 8 | 46 | 164 | 3.57 | 4 | 6 |
| 1st Quarter | 8 | 41 | 351 | 8.56 | 4 | 15 |
| 2nd Quarter | 8 | 45 | 323 | 7.18 | 3 | 7 |
| 3rd Quarter | 8 | 24 | 139 | 5.79 | 2 | 5 |
| 4th Quarter | 4 | 22 | 25 | 1.14 | 2 | 1 |
| 1st Down | 8 | 81 | 465 | 5.74 | 4 | 15 |
| 2nd Down | 8 | 42 | 354 | 8.43 | 6 | 11 |
| 3rd Down | 5 | 9 | 19 | 2.11 | 1 | 2 |
| 4th Down | 0 | 0 | 0 | - | 0 | 0 |
Jaquizz Rodgers
| Split | G | Att | Yards | Avg. | TD | Yards/G |
| All Games | 8 | 172 | 922 | 5.36 | 14 | 115.25 |
| at Home | 5 | 109 | 562 | 5.16 | 10 | 112.4 |
| on Road | 3 | 63 | 360 | 5.71 | 4 | 120 |
| vs. Conference | 5 | 110 | 580 | 5.27 | 9 | 116 |
| vs. Non-Conference | 3 | 62 | 342 | 5.52 | 5 | 114 |
| vs. Winning | 4 | 89 | 460 | 5.17 | 8 | 115 |
| vs. Non-Winning | 4 | 83 | 462 | 5.57 | 6 | 115.5 |
| in Wins | 5 | 116 | 651 | 5.61 | 10 | 130.2 |
| in Losses | 3 | 56 | 271 | 4.84 | 4 | 90.33 |
| vs. Ranked (AP) | 3 | 56 | 271 | 4.84 | 4 | 90.33 |
| vs. Unranked (AP) | 5 | 116 | 651 | 5.61 | 10 | 130.2 |
| Situation | G | Att | Yards | Avg. | TD | 1st |
| All Plays | 8 | 172 | 922 | 5.36 | 14 | 35 |
| 1st Half | 8 | 96 | 462 | 4.81 | 8 | 21 |
| 2nd Half/OT | 8 | 76 | 460 | 6.05 | 6 | 14 |
| 1st Quarter | 8 | 49 | 299 | 6.1 | 5 | 14 |
| 2nd Quarter | 7 | 47 | 163 | 3.47 | 3 | 7 |
| 3rd Quarter | 8 | 40 | 345 | 8.63 | 3 | 11 |
| 4th Quarter | 7 | 36 | 115 | 3.19 | 3 | 3 |
| Overtime | 0 | 0 | 0 | - | 0 | 0 |
| 1st Down | 8 | 114 | 587 | 5.15 | 8 | 15 |
| 2nd Down | 8 | 45 | 301 | 6.69 | 5 | 15 |
| 3rd Down | 6 | 13 | 34 | 2.62 | 1 | 5 |
| 4th Down | 0 | 0 | 0 | - | 0 | 0 |
Note that Best has gotten a first down on 2/9 3rd down attempts, while Quizz has done so on 5/13.
To narrow things down a little more, there are two things we can do:
1. Look at common opponents
2. Adjust for opponent's average run defense
What the hell, let's do both.
Common opponents
| Carries | Yards | Avg | Long | TD | ||
| Best vs. USC/UCLA/ASU | 50 | 212 | 4.24 | 93 | 1 | |
| Quizz vs. USC/UCLA/ASU | 61 | 306 | 5.02 | 32 | 3 | |
Adjusted for Defensive Averages
Jahvid Best
| Actual YPG | Average | Index | Actual YPC | Average | Index | |||
| Maryland | 137 | 141.13 | 0.97 | 13.7 | 3.78 | 3.62 | ||
| Eastern Washington | ||||||||
| @Minnesota | 131 | 171.89 | 0.76 | 5 | 4.25 | 1.18 | ||
| @Oregon | 55 | 121.5 | 0.45 | 3.4 | 3.28 | 1.04 | ||
| USC | 47 | 118.75 | 0.40 | 3.4 | 3.41 | 1.00 | ||
| @UCLA | 102 | 157.5 | 0.65 | 5.7 | 4.09 | 1.39 | ||
| Washington State | 159 | 220.38 | 0.72 | 12.2 | 5.74 | 2.13 | ||
| @Arizona State | 63 | 80.13 | 0.79 | 3.5 | 2.56 | 1.37 | ||
| AVERAGE | 0.68 |
1.67 | ||||||
Jaquizz Rodgers
| Actual YPG | Average | Index | Actual YPC | Average | Index | |||
| Portland State | ||||||||
| @UNLV | 166 | 212.33 | 0.78 | 6.4 | 5.97 | 1.07 | ||
| Cincinnati | 73 | 115.88 | 0.63 | 3.7 | 3.11 | 1.19 | ||
| Arizona | 85 | 101.29 | 0.84 | 5.3 | 3.58 | 1.48 | ||
| @Arizona State | 81 | 80.13 | 1.01 | 4.8 | 2.56 | 1.88 | ||
| Stanford | 189 | 126.38 | 1.50 | 5.7 | 4.16 | 1.37 | ||
| @USC | 113 | 118.75 | 0.95 | 5.7 | 3.41 | 1.67 | ||
| UCLA | 112 | 157.5 | 0.71 | 4.7 | 4.09 | 1.15 | ||
| AVERAGE | 0.92 | 1.40 | ||||||
As you can see, Quizz does better in terms of YPG, although this is heavily weighted by the fact that he gets significantly more carries per game. The more important statistic is YPC - and interestingly enough, even in those horrific beat-downs against Oregon and USC, Best never got less than the average YPC against the respective defenses. His average YPC index is skewed somewhat by the Maryland and Wazzou games, but overall it's still pretty close to Quizz's.
This brings up an interesting question: who would marry TwistNHook? Seriously, who in their right mind would even consider doing that? What the fuck was she thinking?
Another interesting question: given that Best seems to do relatively poorly against tough defenses, while Quizz shows less deviation, is Best a "boom or bust" kind of back who is either going to break off a long run or get stuffed, but can't really be counted on to deliver a few yards when it counts? (Kind of the opposite of the NFL back who said "If you need one yard, I'll get you three. If you need five yards, I'll get you three.)
It's hard to answer that question because a large part of his problems against tougher opponents can be attributed to them stacking the box against us - but hey, this is CGB, not being able to answer a question correctly has never stopped anyone from trying!
| Best | Quizz | |
| Yards | 832 | 927 |
| Attempts | 131 | 172 |
| Mean: | 6.35 | 5.39 |
| Median: | 3.00 | 3 |
| Stddev: | 13.25 | 8.74 |
| 0/Neg: | 30 | 32 |
| % 0/Neg: | 22.90% | 18.60% |
| 10+: | 22 | 23 |
| % 10+: | 16.79% | 13.37% |
| 20+ | 12 | 7 |
| % 20+: | 9.16% | 4.07% |
| Avg TD: | 27.09 | 8.79 |
I found these numbers interesting on a number of levels:
- Best has a higher YPC average, but also a much higher standard deviation, which suggests that his YPC might be at least partially a result of long runs.
- This is reinforced by his relatively high % of carries that are either for negative yardage, no yardage, or for more than 10 yards. As a matter of fact: almost a third of his carries are either stopped at/behind the line of scrimmage or go for 20+ yards, which is a pretty ridiculous statistic.
- His avg TD run is also interesting, as it suggests that most of his TDs come from the long runs that he breaks off (keep in mind that average is in spite of the several TDs he's punched in from the red zone).
One more thing to look at - success rate. I'm using the Football Outsiders formula, which considers a play successful if it obtains 40% of needed yardage on first down, 60% on 2nd down, and 100% on 3rd or 4th down. This is possibly the best metric for evaluating running backs because it not only avoids being skewed by long plays, but also looks at each play in context: a 2 yard rush on 3rd and 1 is way more important than a 6 yard rush on 1st and 10. That being said...
Best is successful on 49.6% of plays this season.
Quizz is successful on 50.6% of plays this season.
Against common opponents (USC/UCLA/ASU):
Best is successful on 34.7% of plays.
Quizz is successful on 49.2 of plays.
So...I dunno. Looks like Best is more of a home-run threat, but Quizz is more reliable in terms of moving the chains and picking up yardage while retaining an element of home-run-threatness. In other words, I spend a bunch of time writing a fanpost that tells us absolutely nothing we don't already know.
Thoughts? Discuss! Berate! Mock TwistNHook!
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are, in every way, reflective of the opinions of every California Golden Blogs Marshawnthusiast. Moreover, they are reflective of every employee of SBNation, including Tyler "Blez" Bleszinski.
4 recs |
100 comments
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Comments
Good stuff, especially at the end. It’s always nice to have more numbers to argue about.
by Kai on Nov 6, 2009 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sort of missing receiving statistics.
Also, it is a difficult comparison because Jahvid gets fewer carries. And, that matters when Jahvid is such a homerun hitter.
It'll be just you, me, and Peter Nincompoop.
by BeastMode on Nov 6, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That’s the whole point of the “efficiency” stats – YPC, success rate, etc.
Unless you mean that sample size is small, in which case yes, it’s hard to compensate for that.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well done HolmoePhobe. Great stuff.
Maybe in the future you could also look at how their receiving numbers stack up too, since both Best and Quizz have shown great propensity to make important catches out of the backfield.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 6, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks. Maybe I’ll wait until the end of the season and then update this+add receiving stats.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This was my favorite part...
Looks like Best is more of a home-run threat, but Quizz is more reliable in terms of moving the chains and picking up yardage while retaining an element of home-run-threatness. In other words, I spend a bunch of time writing a fanpost that tells us absolutely nothing we don’t already know.
by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 12:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Question
I never post here, but read. Like it for the most part. Plenty of volume at least.
I’m also not much of a football afficionado, basketball’s my game. So I’ll pose this more as a question for response (but I suspect I’m right…)
Don’t you think Vereen is a big part of this too? Cal is a 2 headed monster at running back. And I suspect the coaches have different plays to fit their different skill sets. Maybe Best is used more for home run threat situations where he either breaks thru or is dropped at the line. Or at least a higher percentage of the time so it skews the statistics.
Might make more sense to compile both their stats and stack them against Quizz.
by MarinBear on Nov 6, 2009 12:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Vereen is a big part of Cal’s game for sure, one that OSU fans envy big time. Cal has two very, very capable, nearly interchangeable backs, but I think rolling out stats for two backs against Quizz starts to muddy the waters a bit, and not in the good Willy Wonka-chocolate-river kind of way.
by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with ArbyOSU and suddenly have a desire to get the 5 for $6.95.
Praise be to Tedford!
by Ohio Bear on Nov 6, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His comment looks like this to me:
Vereen is a big part of Cal’s game for sure, one that OSU fans envy big time. Cal has two very, very capable, nearly interchangeable backs,Get the new French dip sub now at Arby’sbut I think rolling out stats for two backs against Quizz starts to muddy the waters a bit, and not in the good Willy Wonka-chocolate-river kind of way.
by sec119 on Nov 6, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like someone’s thinkin’ Arby’s…
by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds yummy.
I’m going to Arby’s tonight!
Your wife can cook well, right Arby?
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Get out of here Shufelt! Go to the Stanford blog if you wanna hang out!
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen that tree?!? Hell no!

It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
You’re just using Takimoto’s photoshop skills. Pathetic
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey! That’s MY photobucket account! That’s MY work!

It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ouch, Shu, Ouch
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm… not bad, but not nearly as good as the fine folks at Arby’s.
Here, let me get you a coupon good buddy. Enjoy one hot lunch meat sandwich on CGB!

by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great to see you posting, MarinBear. We look forward to seeing you more often round these parts. And if you ever want to send constructive criticism about the sections other than the “most part” you do like, don’t hesitate to email us. GO BEARS!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, I will. Although my ‘constructive criticism’ is more of a general nature. You know, the whole blogging and internet thing. More ‘stuff’ doesn’t necessarily make for better communication.
Guess I’m an old fart in that way. Hey, I was there at The Play after all. Running onto the field as a crazed sophomore. You know, back when we wrote blue books with quill pens. Means I also remember the pre-Tedford times. Big fan of what he’s doing, despite the Cal curse hand-wringing tendencies. You could say it’s almost like he’s a glutton for punishment when you read all the crrrraaaaappp after a loss, even 1 funky play, for criminy sakes.
Speaking of which, there is such a thing as self-fulfilling prophecy. Maybe Cal fans get back the energy they put out. Not saying we should adopt the shit-eating grinness of a Pete Carroll, but it’s food for thought at any rate. Then again, I am Marin (woowoo) Bear. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
by MarinBear on Nov 6, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But I don’t own a pipe!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 6, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WHAT!!!
you’ve totally ruined my mental picture of you. all the other descriptions…i’ve always also pictured a pipe in your teeth.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahah, I actually do own a pipe. But I only use it for fashion. It’s a fashion pipe. To look classy. I dont smoke anything.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 6, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can you blow bubbles with it!?
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Nov 6, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you referring to actual bubbles, or this Bubbles:

For those who don’t know, that is Bubbles, from the hit Canadian TV show Trailer Park Boys. If you haven’t seen it, I suggest you try it. It beats most of what America is putting out there these days.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This Bubbles, actually:

"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Nov 6, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No. It’s just a fashion pipe.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 7, 2009 12:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that is a great point. The issue there is that there would be too many variables. For example, James Rodgers carries the ball for OSU as well. And it would be difficult to control for playcalling, etc.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the dump off threat...
kind of seems like the receiving stats will impact this game if you consider the talk of blitzing Canfield in an attempt to hurry him. They’ve thrown to Quizz 49 times this year, that’s more than Rliey has thrown to Jones (22) and Best (21) combined.
Just for posterity, here’s a brief comparison:
Quizz averages 46.38 yards/gm, Best averages 27.12 yards/gm.
Quizz: 371 rec yds to date, Best 217 yds to date.
Best: 4 rec TD’s, Quizz: 1 rec TD.
"He's so fast, he can turn off the lights and be in bed before it gets dark!" -- Lee Corso on Jahvid Best in NCAA 10.
by dirt on Nov 6, 2009 12:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The TDs thing emphasizes that Best is more of a home run threat than Quizz is.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 6, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and that we don't use best as the dump off guy.
the dump off in our offense is generally the fullback, or tightend.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it is definitely interesting that Best has so many more receiving TDs off so fewer receptions.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When Best is used as a receiver it’s often isolate him in the secondary against someone who’s inevitably slower than him, so it’s understandable that he can take it to the house more often.
by GBB4188 on Nov 6, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If this exercise is just to compare athletes, then I suppose you’re right. Although then it’s apples and oranges…or, should I say, chocolate and strawberry. Seems Vereen is a closer match to Quizz in terms of running style.
On the other hand, if this is about assessing which team has the advantage going into the game, then my point has validity. But I understand if you don’t want to run a bunch more numbers. You could just say that, you know (notice the attempt at cheeky like you all do. Look at the newby, talking smack).
by MarinBear on Nov 6, 2009 12:59 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd
You could just say that, you know (notice the attempt at cheeky like you all do. Look at the newby, talking smack).
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, you’re totally right. Their styles and usage are completely different. The reason I compared the two is that there have been a lot of “Best vs. Quizz” discussions — and also because comparing overall running games would be exponentially more work, since there would be more variables involved.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As stupid electrifying as Best is, I went with Quizz. When it’s 3rd down and you need 3 yards, you KNOW more often than not Rodgers can get those yards. The same cannot be said for Best. The YPC number is obviously inflated by the long runs.
That having been said, I think Best has better prospects in the pros, but as as far as productivity at the college level goes, Quizz wins out hands down.
by dchu on Nov 6, 2009 1:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Productivity at the college level hands down? Best is going to break Cal records (and has already broken single game and bowl records)… I think the only thing Quizz has hands down is his ability to break tackles, which is basically Best’s only soft spot (aside from some lapses in pass protection— he has taken huge strides over his career)
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
reply to dchu
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he means productivity in terms of moving the chains, helping win games etc. rather than in terms of raw stats.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still disagree. Best has helped us out greatly in those regards too… e.g. Emerald Bowl
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 6, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True, Jahvid has had some monstrous games, but he’s also had plenty of games where he’s been rendered irrelevant or been unable to get those tough yards when it mattered. That’s by his own admission. Granted, a lot of that has to do with the o-line play, but can you honestly say that that all things being equal, if it was 4th and 2 to sustain a crucial drive in the final minutes of a game, you’d rather have Best in the backfield over Rodgers?
I’d rather have the guy who gets you the “successful play” 50% of the time and can still pull off the big play than the guy who’s successful 35% of the time and relies almost exclusively on the big play to be a major factor.
On a tangent, I am personally very curious what would have happened if Jahvid were a WR rather than halfback. He’s exhibited alright hands, both short and deep. Personally I think it would have worked out well… he’s not built to pound the ball 30 times a game, but he’s too talented not to have on the field as much as possible. Might have been an interesting compromise.
by dchu on Nov 6, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thankfully there’s more to the game of football than 4th and 2.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Nov 6, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Best is only irrelevant if he’s off the field. He changes the way the defense must play just by being out there. If Cal had a passing game that could better exploit how teams load up against the run to stop Best they would be a scary offense.
by GBB4188 on Nov 6, 2009 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Best is only irrelevant if he’s off the field.”
Which has happened with all too much regularity in key drives in closely contested games (Minnesota, UCLA, ASU, etc.).
by dchu on Nov 7, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Best being especially key in the key drives in closely contested Minnesota. Best unfortunately hurt himself in the key drive in ASU. As for UCLA, that game was not quite as closely contested as the other 2. We had a solid lead for most of the game, but as Cal fans failed to realize it.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 8, 2009 8:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
an interesting evaluation.
that validated the general common wisdom.
breaking down the passing game also, would I think be very confusing as they are used SO differently.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
First of all, I'm glad we only play you once a year
Because reading these ridiculously nerdy, long, and stat-filled posts week in and week out would make my head explode. Perhaps, that is one reason I am at OSU instead of Cal.
As for this debate, one that has raged on for many years (roughly 1 and a few months), and doesn’t look like its going to end, now that LaMichael James has made an impact down at UO, let’s settle this once and for all.
Just like QBs can be “system QBs” now-a-days, gone are the days of the one-size fits all running back. Comparing statistics is almost meaningless (though I do understand its importance when making arguments). Quizz and Best are two completely different running backs, with two different styles of football that fit them perfectly. We’ve already talked about both, so I’m not going to beat a dead horse.
But one thing that fails to get mentioned is FUMBLES. Now, I haven’t been able to find Best’s statistics, but for those who don’t know, JacQuizz Rodgers still has not fumbled in his college career. That is 431 rushing attempts without a fumble. Add in his receptions, and that is 509 consecutive touches without DROPPING the ball. We’re not talking losing the football. We’re talking about dropping it at all, period.
Thoughts?
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
1. Not fumbling is good.
2. I hope JacQuizz fumbles this Saturday.
3. I hope Best doesn’t fumble this Saturday.
4. Don’t forget to study for the test at the end of the game.
by sec119 on Nov 6, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1. Yes, you’re right.
2. NO!
3. I hope he does.
4. I’m cheating off of Twist.
by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't recommend it
4. I’m cheating off of Twist.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You told me his wife does it all the time.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Quizz and Best are two completely different running backs, with two different styles of football that fit them perfectly. We’ve already talked about both, so I’m not going to beat a dead horse.
Beat dead horses is an underrated hobby.
Looking at the Football Outsider’s stats… Oregon State’s and Cal’s running game have had VERY – VERY similar success.
As you can see here…
With the rushing S&P, Cal ranks 41st in the country, and OSU ranks 40th in the country. So for what Best lacks in consistency, he makes up with more explosive plays, and for what Jacquizz does in consistency, his home run game isn’t as impacting. The end result is that the rushing games from both teams have had a comparable impact.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My contention is still that consistency > big plays in close games.
I just haven’t figured out a way to demonstrate it statistically.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And one of the big knocks on Quizz last year was his few TDs. Those are up this year and he has some big runs too. Not home run TD-scoring runs. But a few of over 30 yards, last year he had none
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d agree for the most part, but that’s why it is so nice to have both a threat that can go inside or outside.
I think a back that shows consistency forces the safeties to stack the box a bit is better than a big play back where it’s more important to have good open field tacklers. It compliments the passing game better.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could this very statement perhaps explain the inconsistency of Cal’s QBs?
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I sorta disagree.
in close games you have to eliminate the negative big plays on offense.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the contention is posed in a way favorable to and necessitating grinding things out. In close games you need consistent yardage, but a close game is a close game to begin with because you didn’t get many big plays. If you get many big plays, then you’re probably not in a close game, so grinding out a few yards at a time doesn’t matter as much.
Since the root desire is to win games, the interesting test would be if high standard deviation on yards per play leads to more wins than lower standard deviation. If only I had an undergrad assistant to pass this off on.
by sec119 on Nov 6, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a close game is a close game to begin with because you didn’t get many big plays. If you get many big plays, then you’re probably not in a close game
Dunno if I agree with this. Just off the top of my head, remember that Broncos-Chargers game a few weeks ago that had like 3 special teams TDs in one quarter? Those were all big plays but the score was still close.
Since the root desire is to win games, the interesting test would be if high standard deviation on yards per play leads to more wins than lower standard deviation. If only I had an undergrad assistant to pass this off on.
I considered doing a fanpost on this…but I’m not sure whether it’s that simple. Amongst other things…against a weaker opponent, you’re going to have more big plays simply due to the skill mismatch, so the data will probably show a correlation between higher stdev and bigger wins. I guess I could control for that by only using games between ranked teams or something…
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alternately, you could look at standard deviation on yards per play for a given weak team across all opponents , and then see how a greater or lesser standard deviation per game results in a win or loss. Or even more or less points, since more points is usually correlated with a win.
Hmm. Maybe not. I think the real lesson here is that it’s possible to try controlling for an infinite number of variables, but it’s not clear if it’s useful to do that. Maybe simple is best, since sometimes the weaker opponents do end up winning.
by sec119 on Nov 6, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON AND WHAT ARE YOU STILL DOING HERE?!
To quote Mr Henderson from Harry and the Hendersons “LEAVE! GET OUT OF HERE! NOBODY WANTS YOU HERE!”
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m a lover, not a fighter.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But you're also a fighter, so don't try anything
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, this thread is so going to turn into a lame Civil War.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 6, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who can beat Cal worse this year?
My bad, that was uncalled for.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
I just choked on my roast beef sandwich. rec
by ArbyOSU on Nov 6, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
CV3000, is that you?
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 6, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a special case of VD just for you.
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 6, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On one hand, the Oregon blogs are waging a civil war by proxy on a California blog. On the other hand, I suppose they’ve earned that right given our record against them recently. I guess I’ll go stand in line for the refugee camp or something.
by sec119 on Nov 6, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure that if people ever actually showed up at their blog, they could have the civil war over there. Until then, I guess it’s CGB’s problem.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 6, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can't sell out our stadium, or our blog :-(
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
You made me laugh. You earn a star.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just have one thing to say. I think the o-line gets discounted when we make these comparisons. Is this just Best vs. Quizz? If we’re just comparing those two, we all know what an effect the oline is going to have. If we’re talking about each teams running game with those respective backs, then say that. Here’s a quote from Steve Muench (one of my 3 favorite writers at ESPN along with McShay and Miller, for a reason I’m not going to name…)
Because California RB Jahvid Best has struggled against his team’s toughest opponents, we had an eye on him last week against Arizona State. The Sun Devils rank fourth in the nation in run defense (80.1 yards per game) and held Best to 63 yards on 18 carries, but the stats don’t tell the whole story.
The film shows that Best made the most of the blocking he received, making good decisions and getting downhill quickly to take advantage of whatever openings were available to him. Perhaps most telling is that Best did not have a single carry for negative yardage. That’s always a clear indicator that a back is running hard and taking whatever the defense gives him.
The stats might indicate Best is less consistent than Quizz – but I don’t think that’s nearly the whole story. I think a lot of it is on the Oline – if they don’t create space to run consistently, Best’s numbers are going to be inconsistent (which is exactly what we’ve seen). I think the above quote highlights just how big a factor this is for the Bears so far this season. I think there’s a reason Best is regarded as the top (or 2nd, him and Spiller seem to be pretty much even) RB in the nation from an NFL draft perspective – he IS better than guys like ‘Quizz (who’s obviously very good), and the lack of production isn’t something that has much to do with Best, really. So…that’s all I’m going to say.
by Missing Barry on Nov 6, 2009 2:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You’re whole post makes an excellent point. But coaches around the conference have said also that one of Jacquizz’s biggest assets is finding holes, often times when there aren’t any. I think they both excel in this area. But, since we don’t have film to hash out and break down, statistics are what we have to go by, and we have to take those stats and make the best possible argument.
Which is why I have figured it out. The YPI (Yards per Inch, stay with me).
Jacquizz Rodgers measures in at 5’6"
Jahvid Best measures in at 5’10"
Those are 66 inches, and 70 inches, respectively.
Their rushing yardage this year:
Rodgers- 922
Best- 838
Their YPI is:
Rodgers- 15.4
Best- 12
If Jacquizz was as tall as best, he’d have roughly 1,078 yards. And if Best was as tall as Quizz, he’d have roughly 792 yards.
Therefore, the difference is nearly 300 yards. Quizz wins.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, if Jacquizz would switch his dreads for Jahvid’s cleancut look, he’d move just as fast as Best!
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 6, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And if Jahvid had a receiver brother named Jason, then Cal would win the Pac10 :-P.
Or get really, really close to winning the Pac10, only to have Stanford snatch it from you right before your eyes :’(
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Oregon State were to have 3 different home jerseys with whiskers, they’d win the Pac-10 for sure.
DOOOOOOOO IIIIIIT!
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 7, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FUCK
We were hoping nobody would find these pictures
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 7, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. What can I say, that was the most amazing argument I’ve seen. I’m convinced.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 7, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Imitation is the most sincerest form of flattery, right?
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 8, 2009 8:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your calculation assumes that size is a disadvantage. But as everyone knows, Rodgers uses his small size to hide behind blockers and elude by being close to the ground. Whereas Best uses his speed.
In other words, it’s the Atom vs the Flash! Who would win in a Deathmatch?
by WifeisaTroj on Nov 6, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying being a 6’5" RB wouldn’t pencil you in for a Heisman? I disagree sir. I disagree with your decision making in general. Marrying a Trojan? Come on now.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow. What can I say, that was the most amazing argument I’ve seen. I’m convinced.
by Missing Barry on Nov 7, 2009 7:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll agree to this logic(k).
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 7, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree with you. I also have absolutely zero idea how to quantify o-line play.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 6, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Billy C has attempted it, and has something done… but the data is still rather subjective.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-U-N-S-U-R-E-O-F-H-I-M-S-E-L-F"
by JShufelt on Nov 6, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offensive lines. Let’s face it. Best is more of a threat. Quizz, less so. If Best had better run blocking, he’d be the leading Heisman candidate right now.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 6, 2009 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
when you look back at the Oregon game
there were plays where we blocked every guy on the field except the one who made the stop for no gain. and the guy who was supposed to block him, just got beat, or fell down, or something.
A few 30 yrd runs….is it the same game? even with the bad throwing and defense?
against SC….if we block a bit better, we don’t get away from the run ‘cause it’s 3rd and 3 (after a bad pass and a three yard run).
In both cases even if we lose….if Best goes for 100 and a score, he’d be at just about 1,000 for the season and 18-ish TD’s….dominating his position, like the qb’s are not.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What exactly are you trying to say?
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 6, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that if we had better oline play Best would be a Heisman front runner.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 7, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DDDOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMEEEEEEDDDDDDD
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Nov 6, 2009 4:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Styles of the games led me to vote for Best despite the apparent statistical advantage Quizz has.
Best was involved in several big blowout games where Cal didn’t really need him anymore. Thus his stats were during partial games (Vareen getting tons of carries) and so he doesn’t get monster stats versus our weaker opponents, he just gets good stats.
Then we got blownout by two teams, where again we can’t use Best. He doesn’t get carries when we are down big because we can’t afford to run the ball.
Quizz’s game against USC for example was close enough for them to use him longer than for our game.
by YleeXOtee on Nov 7, 2009 8:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
In Quizz’s defense we only handed it off to him 37 times that game, so I’m not sure where your logic is.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 7, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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