Ohio State 76, Cal 70: Bears Fight Back, Muzzled At the End
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 4:34 PM PST
in Basketball
68 comments
Can't really put a good spin on this. 0-2 isn't good, especially the way we played at the end. But the last 13 minutes were at least promising. Kind of like Cal's last trip East...35 minutes of horror with a moral victory at the end, if you believe in those things.
Quick thoughts.
- Zone defense, help defense. The Bears should practice attacking the former and utilizing the latter. They started to get a feel for it at the end (attack the middle with a slasher, kick it to the cutter, put a man at the high post).
- Randle had another fine game (played way better with only 3 turnovers), but is playing way way too much for my liking. Considering Nikola's performance (more on that later), we need Brandon Smith to develop big in the next few months or he's going to burn out in March.
- I'm starting to think if Theo was present, we go 1-1, with a 30-40% chance at 2-0. We definitely wouldn't have fallen behind this badly, and he could've switched off to Turner when Jorge struggled with the fouls.
- Sanders-Frison still lost on the inside.
- Amoke struggled early, but really picked it up late. Lots of nice cuts on the baseline, feeding off of Randle's passes or picking up boards. 11 points, 14 rebounds, promising sign as the season goes on.
- Boykin put up another alright performance. We're never going to get great games from him (he'll give something and take something), but if we're cancelling out on the inside, then we'll be okay.
- Outside of Theo, our slashers don't really have finishing moves. Jorge threw up some ugly shots, Amoke only could go baseline, and Seeley...meh. How else do Syracuse and Ohio State in zones pile up the blocks? Pass up on bad shots and pass out of the double teams.
- Really disappointing from Christopher. It was better than yesterday, but I expected a little better than 5-14.
- Like yesterday, pretty bad officiating. This time we had a general gripe, at the end it cost Cal a chance to punctuate the comeback. Still, being down 20 something, it's hard to complain about refs costing us this game (maybe a chance to win, but the win itself?)
- Jorge picking up his 4th and 5th fouls on ticky-tacks forced Golden Bears to see Michael Cera into an ignominous starring role as a white dude who can't play defense on anyone. The entire Evan Turner highlight reel is just him owning Nikola. Pretty much doooooooom.
Anyway, Cal will get to rest up the next few games before getting prepared for their trip to Lawrence. Hopefully we'll be at full strength for that one.
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Tough Tournament
I would have really loved to have gotten the split, but man, we lost to some great teams without a couple of our top rotation guys.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 20, 2009 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I've erased this from my memory...
On to Big Game…
by BlackandOldGold on Nov 20, 2009 4:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Amoke
Nice stats, son. Let’s continue this.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agree with your thoughts. This was a tough tournament for us – both Syracuse and OSU are bad match-ups, we had to travel a long way, and face programs that regularly play in tournaments like this. And on the injuries, and some amateur-ish officiating, and it was a tough combination for us. Better to have adversity now that three months from now. I think this can only held us long-term.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
oops, that should read, “only help us long-term”
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Theo was here I think we lose yesterday by maybe 10-12 and win this one. Too bad.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnson is lighting up UNC even more than he lit us up
Holy crap Syracuse-UNC is looking like a great game.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 4:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And UNC sure does make Syracuse look less physically imposing. Great first half.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, Thoroughbred
what do you have to say now?
I say – watch women’s game vs. Baylor on Sunday. They have a freshman who dunks like men and should revolutionize the women’s game. We have incredible freshman and are poised with those recruits and next year’s to compete in the final four for years.
Joanne Boyle gets the picture!
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 5:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think Monty nows a thing or two about big men It’s not so easy.
And Griner hasn’t done much her first few games. Put a college athlete on her and see how she responds
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uhhh….
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, we start the Pac-10 with 3 losses. So what?
Pretty much every other team in the Pac-10 has MORE questions marks than we do. We lost by 6 when we got absolutely nothing inside and horrible foul trouble/calls that should’ve never been made…not to mention two of our top three defenders out of the game.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Our shooting is going to win games in the Pac-10
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What are you trying to say? Don’t watch the men because they aren’t the best team ever in the history of the universe?
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 20, 2009 5:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what I’m saying is that I would like to have Mike Montgomery sit down and explain to us all his recruiting failures. Why he has been able to recruit only 1 decent big man (Richard Solomon) since his arrival at Cal. It’s been a gaping hole, and yet, he puts it out in front of our face every night. The result is predictable.
But tell me all about the near misses, and I’ll understand his plight, and then deal with it. In the meantime, I’ll continue to see the hole and wonder WHY?
If you asked me to bake some cookies, and I went to the grocery store and came back with
Milk,
Eggs,
Chocolate Chips, and
bread,
you’d surely scratch your head and say, “those aren’t the right ingredients”.
If I didn’t have anything to say for myself, you’d just be frustrated.
But if I told you that I got the bread b/c it was all they had left at the store, and I thought we might be able to ground it down, back into flour, you might shrug your shoulders and ask why I didn’t go to another store for flour. If I told you they were all closed, then you might say, “okay, let’s give it a try”.
Right now, I’m frustrated with the lack of depth on the interior. I guess you could make an argument that Kamp and Theo can both play the 4, but I was kinda hoping for the real thing.
MSF showed why he was at the JC for 2 yrs. That’s the best you could do, Mike? What about your Stanford success? What about your pro experience? Doesn’t that count for anything?
And then, 5 open slots for 2010, and you come away with only 1 interior player, and he’s a thin face-up guy at that?
GET SOME FUCKING FLOUR!!! ENOUGH WITH THE HALFWAY SOLUTIONS!
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can only treat it like he’s had one class to recruit. he didn’t come into his first year until after the early signing period ended. so, he had to work with that was left: jorge was the top unsigned player that he could get, really. and it’s not like Cal is a high profile program. you can’t treat us like we can throw a scholly at a kid and he’ll be impressed (like you could at a syracuse, north carolina, and ohio state). i mean, do you think we’d get so much pub after our stint with braun?
if you want a near miss, you saw him against syracuse: dashonte riley
last year, we also missed keith gallon
this year, we didn’t get james johnson, but he may be looking at other bigs for the second signing period.
you’re expecting results way too immediately. it’s a process at cal because we don’t have the name of a UCLA or other national elite recruiter. you’re also overlooking the caliber of class he brought in this year (size on the perimeter being very nice). there weren’t basically any good west coast bigs this year — i’m sure you can see that ,up and down the west coast, there is a dearth of talented big men. just look at the rest of the pac-10.
again, this is mike montgomery’s second year as head coach. don’t expect a magical big man just to appear at our footsteps. everyone went crazy when Braun couldn’t close on Drew Gordon of all people. i am telling you, though, that there are younger bigtime in prospects in Oakland that we’ll have a nice shot with, and montgomrey will get his men in here. he knows what ails the team
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
thanks, TB.
you are allowing me to vent, and calming me down.
I think it’s pretty funny how Bennett was able to get Johnson to follow him to Virginia. Now, THAT’S a recruiter.
And that brings up a good point, one that seriously refutes your point, TB.
Look at Josh Pastner at Memphis. He got killer recruits his first year.
Look at Sean Miller at AU – he seems to be doing pretty well and he hasn’t coached a single game either.
That’s the same situation Monty was in when he was hired!
And Johnny Dawkins got the tall Canadian (Powell), the talented wing (Anthony Brown) and even a tall guy Cal was looking at Gage out of Vashon Island, WA. Dawkins has been at Furd the same amt of time (less, technically) than Monty, and he’s got a better 2010 class going.
Explain those situations away. I’m not buying your argument that CAL is not a big enough name, or that Monty is not a big enough name. I think he should have been able to close the deal on star in 2010. At least fill the needs. As it is, we are going to have this walk on transfer from that little vermont school play in games next year after Boykin graduates.
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
stanford will almost always have a slightly better profile for the ‘recruit who wants the education’ because of rankings they can point to (‘harvard of the west’) and what a private university can lather on a recruit. it’s just a way of life based on perception, not reality. cal has a great sell in ‘top public university’ but this is no advantage over furd and UCLA when it comes to recruiting.
i’m by no means saying monty has killed it on the recruiting trail, but he never has. right now, you can’t say gage or james johnson are any better than richard solomon (i haven’t been able to look over any tape, but i may tonight). also, we needed to replace a bunch of wing players in this class. what are we losing: PG, SG, SG/SF, PF… our recruits: PG, SG, SG/SF, PF.
as for the guys you listed… pastner was an elite recruiter before he became head coach. that was pretty much why he was elevated to the position. the others: you can’t expect to win every battle!
and it’s pretty much always a rule of thumb: the young ‘sexy’ coaches will get ‘sexy’ recruits when they begin. only when they capitalize on this initial success will they be able to create a program that gets a piece of the biggest and the best every year.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also, just the way things shook out…our PG recruit this year is an elite player.
i know it’s disappointing. all i’m saying is there are maybe, say, 50 programs in the country who we can say recruit at our level and higher. that’s a lot of talent to spread around
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What we are missing
You know what?
We are missing just 1 single player both this year and next from being very nicely rounded out. We just need that 1 big center. Surely Monty knew that coming into this season. And he knows it again for next year. And it’s going to be the case until he resolves it.
So, let the issue sit on top of his desk and HE can deal with it.
by concordtom on Nov 21, 2009 6:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you could make an argument that Kamp and Theo can both play the 4, but I was kinda hoping for the real thing.
What about Kamp isn’t the real thing, other than being hurt? He’s strong, he knows how to post up, he rebounds, he can play post D…he might not be an impact player in terms of his overall quality, but unlike Theo (who’s really a wing), he is a legitimate post player.
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They have a freshman who dunks like men
I assume we’re talking about 6’2 white high school kids, right?
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
meaning, she can do a drop step and collapse the rim.
I don’t know many 6’2" white high school kids who can do that – we had no dunkers on my team. Not even the 6’3" star (league MVP) could dunk on a running start.
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 6:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s pretty bad (no offense), everyone on my high school team could dunk, and we were a small team and nobody went on to play college ball (except one kid who was a freshman who’s now balling it up in one of the major conferences, but obviously ended up being better/more athletic than the rest of us). I mean, most of us couldn’t dunk in a game situation or anything, but at the end of practice with a running start or whatever we could.
Any highlight clips of this girl?
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sure there’s a bunch of her on youtube. I think that’s where I saw it before. It’s pretty unreal.
Hey – we even won our league. Shows you what a bunch of technically sound kids can achieve. That’s what Cal is going to have to be this year. Cause they don’t have anyone who can dunk, either.
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you’re pretty angry after two losses, tom. there’s a lot of season left. we had the same problems last year and did much better than expected, and the Pac-10 was 10x as hard.
again, Griner’s going up against college defenders now. i saw her play on TV, and while her blocking skills were definitely impressive, she was taken out easy by a physical defender and looked out of balance.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Plus the two losses were to tough teams. Losing those two games is not a very negative mark on the team, at all…
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cause they don’t have anyone who can dunk, either.
Well, depends on what you mean. If you’re talking about Britney Grimer dunking, they can all do that. :)
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dunkers?
So, what percentage of the male population do you think can dunk?
I’d say its WAY below 1%.
So if you go to a high school with a student body of 1500, and half of them are girls, and half of them are shrimpy freshmen and sophomores, and half of the boys can’t even ball, then you are left with only a hand full of dunking candidates.
I tried my entire life, and could play some mean dunk ball on the 9 foot rims. But 10 feet is 10 feet, and out of my league, and just about everyone else at my high school.
Actually, there was a 6’3" junior on the team who was dunking easily in practice at the end of the season. And we were all – “where did that come from, Kevin?”
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I honestly don’t even have a guess as to what % can dunk. I’d guess it’s much higher for a high school population than the res of the population – no injury issues, a large population of in shape kids (who are playing HS sports), they haven’t put on weight most of them likely will as they get older….
I’m in my mid-20’s, I’m taller than I was in high school, I’ve put on some weight but not a lot…but I’m just not in nearly the shape I was then. I used to be able to dunk, I don’t even think I could come that close anymore…
My guess is a pretty good % of 6’2+ kids that play HS sports can dunk.
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the basketball team at my school can dunk, but I go to a private school that is a hotbed for athletes.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 21, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Where did you go to high school concordtom?
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 6:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm…it surprises me that no one could dunk. Need more non-white people I guess.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 6:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My team was full of non-white people
We only had 2 guys that could dunk.
Or did you mean non-white/latino/asian
Cause Craig and Don Bailey were the only non-white/latino/asian kids on my team. And Don Bailey was 5’7"
by LeonPowe on Nov 20, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ha we had a 5’5 kid on my team that could dunk. The funny thing was he couldn’t dunk on his own, but he could dunk an alley-oops. His hands were so small he couldn’t hang onto the ball well enough to dunk on his own, but if he didn’t have to worry about having the ball in his hands when he jumped, he could get up there and put it in.
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, dunking in a game is about 1000x harder than just goofing off after practice.
i went to a huge school with 4 starters who went on to play collegiate ball (only 1 in a major program though)… i think MAYBE 2 of them could dunk in game environment with any sort of consistency
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i guess we had more dunkers after i left, but those were 6’10-6’11 white guys who are playing on teams like pepperdine and USD now
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I used to play with a guy who started at Howard and another who started at Loyola (Chicago, not Loyola Marymount) – and both could dunk EASILY shooting around, but the only in-game dunking they did was on 1-0 break-aways or the Howard guy could dunk on alley-oops
by LeonPowe on Nov 20, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, and even being able to dunk in a game on a 1-0 fast break is different than being to dunk in a half court set or an alley-oop set play or in traffic in the middle of the key…
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
She can dunk big deal
She’s what 6’9 but she’s skinny as a stick.
by Rocky63215 on Nov 20, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it IS a big deal.
How many dunks have there been in the history of women’s college basketball. Heck, you can include the WNBA too for that matter!
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
she’s gotta be able to get to the rim though. she got out of balance very easily, and her gangliness has a lot of drawbacks.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, fair enough.
I’ll get to see it for myself in a couple days.
still, I ain’t never seen a chick drop step on 10 feet.
by concordtom on Nov 20, 2009 7:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, this is true. she’s youtube impressive. it may take a year or two before she is college-level crazy though. we got some physical, athletic, big freshmen too!
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i really can’t stand dick vitale.
by atomsareenough on Nov 20, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This is putting a damper on my pre-Big Game night
Quick, someone post something happy and shinny about how Cal is better than StanfUrd on the front page!!!!!
P.S. Shot gun races in the eucalyptus grove tomorrow at noon, you’re all going down!!!!!!!
Undefeated in Southern California since Oct. 2009...
by CruzinBears on Nov 20, 2009 5:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey, look! Cuse is rolling!
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
‘Cuse has some serious potential this year. Their big man is good, big, strong and skilled. Their other guys are real athletic, if they’re on their game, that’s going to be a tough team for anyone to beat….
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Two tough matchups, don’t get it wrong, these were 3 very good teams (and Cal, a decently good team) in this tournament. Going 0-2 isn’t ideal, but it’s nothing to be worried or disappointed by. Quality competition now should prepare the Bears better for the future. Also, Syracuse is looking very good right now – no shame in losing big to that team yesterday, they’re looking good.
By the way, I agree ‘Cuse was a bad matchup for Cal, someone else said OSU is, too. I didn’t get to see the game, curious as to why?
Also, not having Theo hurts, he’s by far the most solid all-around player on the team.
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Cuse is leading 57-40.
WHAT'S YOUR DEAL?
by Thoroughbred on Nov 20, 2009 5:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap, we ran into a steamroller.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, if only we had found a way to get past OSU (Why, Theo’s foot, whhhhhhy?) I would have felt really good about the tourney
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 20, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t they lose against a D2 team…
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 21, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Syracuse
So much for them not being that good this year, right?
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 20, 2009 6:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know anyone who said this team wouldn’t be good. It’s still Boeheim’s team.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well they lost to a D-II team in a scrimmage, so people were doubting them…
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but it’s a preseason game; UCLA losing to CS Fullerton seems like a way bigger deal to me.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the UCLA game was an exhibition. The Syracuse game was, and apparently they didn’t play zone in the exhibition.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, UCLA apparently only beat Concordia (who?) by one point in their exhibition game.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, not a big deal to me.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 6:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As in…UCLA lost a game that counted to a good, but not amazing midmajor. Syracuse lost a game that didn’t count. That sort of stuff you can rebound from.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 20, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I guess the difference is that come tourney time, Syracuse’s loss doesn’t get factored into their record.
by Tedfordisgod on Nov 20, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Michigan State
I thought one of the ESPN analysts made a pretty decent point after the game. Last year early on in the season, Michigan State was killed by Maryland by 18 points and then North Carolina by 25 points. At the end of the season, they were in the national title game. I’m not saying that we’re comparable to Michigan State, but it just goes to show that early season losses to great competition are nothing to worry about.
The Ultimate Opportunist
by Rated-R Superstar on Nov 20, 2009 6:07 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah I think, in some situations, the experience and competition is more valuable to the team than the losses are detriments.
by Missing Barry on Nov 20, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Signs of life
It was great to see us finally show some fight in the second half. One got to wonder how much better we could have played had we have Theo.
I think Amoke played better and more confidently by the end of this tourney, which is good.
by LEastCoastBears on Nov 20, 2009 9:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
THEO UPDATE NOT GOOD
http://www.sbnation.com/2009/11/19/1165969/cal-robertson-foot-injury
Cal forward Theo Robertson could miss weeks thanks to a foot injury.
Nov 19, 2009 – Mike Montgomery’s Golden Bears already went into their trip to the Coaches vs. Cancer semifinals without 6-8 forward Harper Kamp, who’s still recovering from a knee injury. Then came the news that 6-5 forward Theo Robertson would also miss the game because of an injury he suffered to his right foot on Tuesday.
Now it appears that California will be without Robertson for more than just the trip to New York. Seth Davis reported via Twitter that the injury was a stress reaction. That means Robertson, who scored an average 18 points in the first two contests of the year, will miss several weeks of the Bears’ campaign. Losing that kind of production would be a major blow to Cal, and If Kamp remains out, the Bears’ frontcourt depth will be significantly challenged.
by concordtom on Nov 21, 2009 6:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t see the game, haven’t read any comments yet. But I can tell this from the box score: any game where Nikola Michael Knezevic has the opportunity to get 4 fouls is a game we are not going to win.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 21, 2009 12:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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