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The 2009 Rose Bowl Race: Pac-10 Championship Scenarios


Pacific-10 Conference Standings

(updated 11.15.2009 at 1:20 AM PST)


Calcuating the percentages for who wins the Pac-10 title wasn't easy. There are a lot of complicated scenarios out there involving four legit contenders and one dark, burning, empty Trojan horse (yes people, Cal was officially eliminated last week with Oregon smashing ASU. Until next year...).

Anyway, for those who just want the approximate percentages, here they are.

Oregon--54.81%
Oregon State--
23.00%
Furd--16.04%
Arizona--
5.997%
USC--(1.02*10^(-3))%

Well well well. Could the Civil War end up being the Rose Bowl battle?

Explanations for how this could happen, as well as for the numbers (and why it's not fully 100%*) after the jump. Plus ragnarok stops by and we have a brief rundown about whether the Pac-10 will get two BCS bids.

Star-divide

Thanks to this nifty little gambling calculator (which translates spreads into winning percentages), I was able to calculate the relative chances of each team winning its games based on the lines set by Vegas.  Since the lines haven't come out for any games past this Saturday, I went ahead and guesstimated the lines based on previous figures. I totally expect these lines to shift a little, but I'm fairly confident that if the lines came out today these would be about the current figures.

Arizona St. at UCLA (-4)
Cal at Furd (-7)
Oregon (-5) at Arizona
Oregon State (-30) at Wazzu

UCLA at USC (-14.5)
Arizona (-4) at Arizona St.
Washington St. at Washington (-28)
Notre Dame at Furd (-8)

Oregon State at Oregon (-9.5)
California (-5.5) at Washington
Arizona at USC (-7.5)

I did have to adjust it for the super ridiculous Wazzu lines, which had the odds of Oregon State beating Washington State this week at 127% (that figure's probably accurate, but some Poindexter out there would complain).

Now onto the fun part--the probabilities! Big thanks to bruinhoo of Bruins Nation for breaking down all the realistic possibilities.

Oregon: 64.14% chance to beat Arizona, 75.47% chance to beat Oregon State

93065954

via cdn.bleacherreport.com

Likeliest Rose Bowl scenarios

Win final two (0.6414* 0.7547)=48.41%
Lose to Arizona + Win vs Oregon State + Stanford loss to Cal + Arizona losing at least one of its last two  (0.3586* 0.7547* 0.2899*(1- (0.6819*0.2702)))=6.40%

Obviously, the Ducks fate is in their own hands. They'll be favored in their final two games (albeit not by huge margins). The -9.5 line seems high against Oregon State, and I'll probably lower it after this week when the Beavers dismantle Wazzu, but we shouldn't take this line too seriously since the underdog covered the last three years.

Fall behind early to Arizona Saturday night though, and their fate is almost ironically placed into the Bears's hands. If Cal holds onto the Axe and knocks the Furd out of the picture, the Ducks are still very much in the hunt; a Furd win sinks them into the abyss, since they'd lose a straight tiebreaking scenario with the Cardinal and whatever Arizona throws into the mix.

Frankly Quackers, you'd better just win your last two.

Arizona: 35.86% chance to beat Oregon, 61.89% chance to beat Arizona State, 27.02% chance to beat USC

3831294310_medium

via wildcat.arizona.edu

Likeliest Rose Bowl scenario: Win final three = (0.3586*0.6189*0.2702)=5.997%

Last week's trip to Memorial was a deathblow to the Wildcats Pasadena dreams. Although Arizona's loss does not prevent them from controlling their destiny, falling to Cal now means every game is an elimination one now. Oregon beating Arizona would take them out of the hunt (the Ducks would only lose two conference games at that point), so they have no choice but to win their final three. Their chances do leap up if they win next week though, although the final game at the Coliseum still will depress their overall hopes at a New Year's Day trip.

So despite the fact that Arizona controls its own fate and requires no outside help, they have a far weaker chance of making it to the Rose Bowl than their counterparts in Corvallis and Palo Alto. They are current underdogs against Oregon and will probably be around a touchdown underdog against USC depending on how they recover against UCLA, and their rivalry game in Tempe is no pushover either.

Oregon State: 99.75% chance to beat Washington State (that's being generous to Wazzu), 24.53% chance to beat Oregon

1fab80e0-a021-4a83-8e5f-2bc09c3b6968_medium

via a.espncdn.com

Likeliest scenario
Win final two + Arizona NOT winning out = (0.9975 * 0.2453 * (1- (0.3586*0.6189*0.2702)))=
23.00%

USC's loss last week surprisingly helped out the Beavers the most, since almost any tiebreaker procedure with the Trojans involved would have eliminated Oregon State from the running. Now, all the Beavers have to do is knock off Wazzu (slightly manageable), root for Oregon--for just one week--or Arizona State to knock off Arizona, and the Civil War becomes the winner-take-all matchup.

This would be a classic Mike Riley situation, since the Beavers flew under the radar all season after being inflated with coverage last season, and falling apart in the Civil War in a bid for the Rose Bowl to Oregon. Now it's the Ducks who've been in the limelight all season. Can they handle it differently?

 

Furd: 71.01% chance to beat Cal

6376ada0-f27d-42bd-bab1-f68441e4837e_medium

via a.espncdn.com


Beat Cal + Oregon beats Oregon State + Arizona beats Oregon + Arizona does not win both of final two games =
(0.7101 * 0.7547*0.3586*(1-(0.6189*0.2702)))=
16.00%

Beat Cal + Oregon loses to Oregon State + Oregon State loses to Wazzu + Arizona does not win all three = (0.7101*0.24553*0.0025*(1-(0.3586*0.6189*0.2702)))=0.04%

Despite two smashing wins against the class of the conference, earlier failures against Arizona and Oregon State put the Furd as the third horse in the race. The best scenario is a Yojimbo situation--Arizona beats Oregon (knocking the Furd and Oregon into a tie that the Furd win head-to-head),  Oregon beating Oregon State (taking the Beavers out of the tiebreaker), USC recovering enough to take out Arizona.

However, the pieces only completely fall into place if they beat the Bears. Otherwise, they're out.

(Ironically, beating Notre Dame means nothing in this race, except probably the end of the road for Charlie Weis.)

 

USC: 86.77% chance to beat UCLA, 72.98% chance to beat Arizona

51729740-2830-4502-8443-036a7495c144_medium

via a.espncdn.com

Oh well, what the hell--some poor guy had to grab this last scenario, six way tiebreaker nonsense for the Trojans to grab the Rose Bowl, might as well set the odds in stone.

USC winning out + Cal winning out + Oregon State losing to Wazzu + Oregon losing to Oregon State + Arizona beating out Oregon + Arizona beating ASU=(0.8677*0.7298*0.2899*0.6513*0.0025*0.2453*0.3586*0.3811) = 0.00102%

USC should officially be eliminated the moment the Rodgers brothers set up a touchdown factory in the end zone of Martin Stadium. But if this shit actually ends up happening, no one but the Trojans deserves to win the Pac-10 for the next decade. It would be a monumental gagjob by every team in contention.

Actually, the most fun part of this was trying to guess what the lines were. How far would USC drop after getting totalled at home? On one hand, they're probably not going to be that great the rest of the season. On the other, they play UCLA (offensively inert against good teams) and Arizona (good shot they're playing for nothing), so I decided to be conventional for now. I'm still not sure how much last week's loss downgrades them in Vegas's eyes--the Oregon loss didn't seem to do much, which is why I'm holding out on this.

 

(*) Note: I know it isn't totally 100%; there's a 0.20 percent chance floating around there for various tiebreaker scenarios that I really didn't want to explore (I'm guessing some of them involve Washington State beating Oregon State or some complicated four-way/five-way ties that are really remote). rags decided to break down the most prominent scenarios, feel free to calculate whether most of the 0.20 is found here.

A five-way tie involving Arizona but not Cal (Bears lose to UW) goes Arizona's way.  A five-way tie involving Cal but not Arizona ('Zona gags vs. Arizona State) goes Oregon State's way.  And a four-way tie in which both Cal and Arizona lose to lesser opponents also goes Oregon State's way.

 

Epilogue: Will the Pac-10 get two BCS bids?

ragnarok: I took a look at the BCS situation, just to see how likely it was for the Pac-10 to get two teams into the BCS.  Problem is, we keep beating each other, so I'm not sure if any team is even going to be eligible for at-large selection.  However, the list of available at-large selections is pretty poor.  At this point, it comes down like this:

BCS:  Texas vs. Florida/Alabama
Fiesta:  BCS vs. BCS
Sugar:  Florida/Alabama vs. BCS
Orange:  ACC vs. BCS
Rose:  Pac-10 vs. Ohio State

That's four open slots.  The winner of Cincinnati vs. Pittsburgh will get an automatic bid, and at this point, TCU would have to have a massive FAIL to miss out on an auto bid as well.  That's two open slots left.  After the Sugar Bowl takes the SEC title game loser, the Fiesta Bowl gets the next two selections, so they get to set up whatever game they like.  However, I think they've got pretty slim pickings at this point.

At-large candidates:  Boise State, Oklahoma State(?), Cincy/Pitt loser, Iowa(?), Misc. Pac-10 team, Misc. ACC team

I tend to think the Fiesta will take TCU, but if so, they almost certainly won't take Boise State as well -- a mid-major matchup like that would ruin their TV rating.  They need at least one big name team to attract eyeballs.  Okie State might be an attractive choice to replace Texas, but the Cowboys are on the fringes of the BCS as it is, and if they lose at Oklahoma in the season finale, they'll probably get knocked back far enough to be out of the BCS Top 14.  Nebraska has a name, but unless they can win the Big XII outright, I can't see them in the BCS.  Basically, unless Texas loses the Big XII title game, I have a hard time seeing a Big XII team in the Fiesta Bowl.

The Cincy/Pitt loser has a pretty good shot at an at-large bid, assuming Pitt doesn't lose to West Virginia next week (no small thing), and assuming anyone wants these small-market teams.  Iowa is a candidate depending on how far they fall after losing to Ohio State.  An upset in the ACC title game might leave Georgia Tech as an attractive at-large candidate for the Sugar Bowl, but probably not the Fiesta.  Frankly, if the Fiesta wants some interest, they might do well to take a team like the Arizona/Oregon loser, or even USC if they can.

Me: Pretty sure the Pac-10 is out because the BCS is never about fairness. I'm guessing it'll go something like this:

BCS
Florida/Alabama winner
Texas

Rose
Ohio State
Pac-10 champ

Sugar
Florida/Alabama loser
Boise, Cincy/Pitt loser or Okie State if they win out, maybe even Georgia Tech if they lose the ACC championship game

Orange
ACC champ
Cincy/Pitt winner

Fiesta
TCU
Iowa

Poll
I'm rooting for ______________ to win the Pac-10.
Oregon
429 votes
Oregon St.
482 votes
Arizona
43 votes
USC
17 votes
You must be joking.
149 votes

1120 votes | Poll has closed

4 recs  |  Comment 32 comments |

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Comments

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Great post. Rec’d!

President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Nov 16, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

0.00102% 0.00102%!
Love this post, thanks for doing the work!

by Kai on Nov 16, 2009 11:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wow, nice work.

I think Oregon’s screwed since anytime there’s a most-likely scenario for someone other than SC to goto the Rose Bowl, it doesn’t happen. Also, I’ll be rooting for Oregon and any team I root for always disappoints.

Cal Football: It could happen!

by CalBandGreat on Nov 16, 2009 1:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oregon State wins the Pac-10, Oregon-Boise rematch in the Fiesta Bowl

by DougOLis on Nov 16, 2009 1:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’d be very surprised if there are two Pac-10 teams, but I’d be totally pleased with a scenario like this.

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash on Nov 16, 2009 1:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it’s been determined that bowl committees would do anything to avoid rematches, especially one like uo/boise (where boise could be easily excluded).

I’d love to see that scenario though.

by ArbyOSU on Nov 16, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oregon at 9-3 in the BCS?

I very much doubt that.

Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.

by The VD Special on Nov 19, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Go Beavs.

As an Oregonian, win or lose, it’s nice to see a PAC 10 title decided in our state.

Screw that, it’s only nice if OSU wins.

by ArbyOSU on Nov 16, 2009 1:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I declare you z key.

It's spelled "S-H-U-G-O-T-F-E-L-T-U-P"

by JShufelt on Nov 16, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Consider yourself declared “S-H-U-V-3-0-0-0”….

by ArbyOSU on Nov 16, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's spelled "S-H-U-G-O-T-F-E-L-T-U-P"

by JShufelt on Nov 16, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No facebook at work, but I can tell from the link location.

That’s both worth a rec, and a signature change.

It's spelled "S-H-U-V-3-0-0-0"

by JShufelt on Nov 16, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We’ll always have CGB…

by ArbyOSU on Nov 16, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Grooooooss. Keep your Oregon self-love to yourself, thank you.

by sec119 on Nov 16, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m okay with either the Ducks or the Beavers. So… congratulations Oregon and Oregon St., I’ve just screwed you over.

by Mister Pie on Nov 16, 2009 3:29 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

So what is the best case scenario for the Bears?

The best we could (realistically) do is tied for 2nd place and it’s not that much of a stretch. First off, of course, we need to win out. That knocks Furd down to a tie at 6-3 in conference. We need only one team to beat 6-3. The easiest solution is Oregon.

1. Oregon (now 7-1) beats Arizona (4-3)
2. Oregon (8-1) beats OSU (6-3, beating WSU is a no-brainer)

Whatever else happens, nobody is better than 6-3 so we’re tied for 2nd place.

If Oregon loses to Arizona, now I think the best case scenario is to root for OSU:
1. OSU (7-2, beat WSU previously) beats Oregon (6-3 with loss to Arizona and OSU)
2. USC (probably 6-3 by beating UCLA previously) over Arizona (probably 6-3 by beating ASU previously).

So let’s win out and be able to chant “We’re #2!” (not to mention make bowl selection interesting).

I think the first scenario (Oregon to Rose Bowl) is best for us in terms of bowl selection. We’ll have head-to-head (not that it means much) with two of the other tied teams – Furd and Arizona, while only having lost to one tied team – OSU. In the OSU wins method (which would have us tied with Oregon, USC, Arizona, and Furd for second place), I think we are not very appealing. The bowls get to choose, though, and with our devastating bowl losses all of this means just about nothing. But we’d still be #2!

by tmoran3020 on Nov 16, 2009 7:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Errr

Not devastating bowl losses (outside of 2004). That was supposed to say our devastating blowout losses.

by tmoran3020 on Nov 16, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

aggg

Another detail (this gets confusing). When I said we’d have two head-to-heads wins out of the three tied teams, I assumed Arizona beats USC. If USC beats Arizona then we still tied for #2 but we only have one head-to-head (Furd).

by tmoran3020 on Nov 16, 2009 7:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

All this crazyness is epic. I feel like the other conferences suck in comparison and have pretty much already figured it all out. What stupidity!

President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Nov 16, 2009 7:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And you don’t want to go up against USC for a bowl bid.

Write it in stone now: whoever they’re tied with, no matter what the head-to-head says, that bowl is picking USC. People forget that bowls don’t want fairness, they want money. And big programs bring big money for bowls. Same story with Notre Dame, Penn State, Texas, Oklahoma, Alabama, Florida, etc.

by kencraw on Nov 16, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Which is another reason the Oregon method is superior – we want to be able to root for Arizona to beat USC and not have it affect our standing but rather to knock USC down a rung.

Go Oregon!

by tmoran3020 on Nov 17, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You forget that USC is only big when they are winning. When they were bad, nobody cared about USC. You can already see the non-SC alums jumping off the ol’ bandwagon

Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.

by The VD Special on Nov 19, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve been pondering this too. I.e., expect post #2 on the topic soon!

Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com

by Avinash on Nov 16, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

To use your stats, my scenarios look like:

If Oregon beats Arizona,
Cal beats Furd (0.2899) * Oregon beats OSU (0.7547) * Cal beats Washington (0.6513) = 14.2% chance

If Oregon loses to Arizona,
Cal beats Furd (0.2899) * OSU beats Oregon (0.2453) * USC beats Arizona (0.7298) * Cal beats Washington (0.6513) = 3.4%

So we really want Oregon to beat Arizona if we want to come in second in the Pac-10, which is meaningless in and of itself, but would make the season feel a lot less sucky to me.

by tmoran3020 on Nov 17, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually you can tie for first if:

- Cal beats Stanford
- Oregon loses to OSU and Arizona
- WSU beats Oregon State (ok. You said realistically? Well if USC can hope… : )
- Arizona loses to USC or ASU.

Oregon State or Arizona, depending on variables I won’t enumerate, would win the Rose Bowl bid, but Cal would be in the tie for first.

Based on the percentages used above this is a 0.0053% chance, or five times USC’s Rose Bowl odds.

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Nov 17, 2009 8:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the info!

President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Nov 17, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be amazing, LoL. Thanks.

by CaliforniaCMB on Nov 17, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They spelled your name wrong, ouch!

by CaliforniaCMB on Nov 17, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My bad!

Will fix it now!

BCS Evolution -- Punctuating the Equilibrium - twitter

by utesfan100 on Nov 17, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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