Cal vs. Oregon State Post-Game Thoughts
(1) To send more pass rushers or to not send more pass rushers? For most of the game Gregory was sending 4 pass rushers. Sometimes he'd send 5 if he was feeling a little frisky. But for the most part, only 4 pass rushers were devoted to pressuring Canfield. I agree with this strategy. I do not think more pass rushers should have been sent to pressure Canfield.
I'm sure that last sentence is quite shocking to a lot of Cal fans - especially the ones advocating for a more aggressive defense that sends more than just three or four pass rushers. Even I, initially, in the CGB podcast last week, suggested that perhaps this is the game where Gregory just needs to get crazy ultra aggressive and send lots of pass rushers because Canfield is so good that he can pick apart 7 and 8 man zones anyways.
I made that statement prior to seeing film on Canfield. Subsequently (but still prior to the game), I was directed to some video of Canfield's completions against USC's defense over at Trojanfootballanalysis.com. After seeing that film, I decided that blitzing Canfield was not really the correct strategy. Why? Canfield gets the ball out so quickly and efficiently. He hits his TEs and RBs on short check-downs to neutralize the blitz. When an offense's QB can get the ball out quickly against a blitzing defense, it just neutralizes the blitz and allows the offense to gain big yardage (see the final Cal drive of the 2009 Cal vs. Arizona State game for a pretty good Cal example of this). Blitzing against an offense that can get the ball out that quickly and efficiently is extremely risky, and has much less reward than normal blitzing strategies. Canfield was getting the ball out extremely quick - and against USC's very fast pass rush too! USC's pass rush is much faster than Cal's pass rush, yet Canfield neutralized them. It doesn't matter if Cal was sending five or six pass rushers per down to get a quicker pass rush, Canfield still probably would have been able to get the ball out. He did it against USC's faster defense and I have little doubt he would have done it to Cal's defense.
So what do you do? How do you defend such an efficient QB? Play really good coverage. Tighten up those zones. Make Canfield hold onto the ball longer and pray that your pass rush gets to him. Perhaps man up, play man coverage, and a little bump and run to knock the QB/WR timing off.
But I'm sure most of us are thinking that Cal is no good at playing coverage. That is true. But Cal is pretty bad at pass rushing the QB too. Essentially Gregory is presented with two evils: (1) Blitz Canfield with a poor pass rushers in hopes that pressure does get to him and open yourself up to big gains; (2) cover the field with some poor coverage defenders, and hope that Canfield makes a mistake or your pass rush gets to him. Gregory had to choose the lesser of two evils.
Both strategies have their pros and cons. But I think that option #2 is the safer option that gives Cal a better chance to win. Option #2 would force Canfield and the OSU offense to drive the field for longer increasing the chances they'd make a mistake. Option #1 could lead Canfield to drive the field in only a few plays leaving little chance for them to make mistakes.
But Option #1 comes with greater possibility of sacks, say you! True. But did you watch that film of Canfield? Did you see how quickly he got that ball out against a USC defense that is faster than Cal's defense? I'm sure Gregory had little doubt that Canfield could repeat that performance against us. Thus, Gregory opted for option #2: cover the field with some poor coverage defenders, and hope that Canfield makes a mistake or your pass rush gets to him.
FYI, Canfield's was only sacked by USC 3 times on 47 pass attempts against USC (43 pass attempts + 1 positive rush gain + 3 sacks) for a percentage of 6.4%. That's a pretty low success percentage. A very low success percentage. It's just about not even worth it to blitz when the success rate is that low.
In summary, our pass rush sucks. Our coverage sucks. OSU's passing offense is great at neutralizing blitzes. Gregory was presented with two options: (1) blitz and get defeated quickly; or (2) not-blitz and get defeated slowly. He opted for option #2 in hopes that the slow death might result in OSU mistakes which would kill drives (penalties, turnovers). I can't blame Gregory for his decision. I think it was the right one. It was the lesser of the two evils.
Tedford understands this concept of not being overly aggressive against great offenses that can get the ball out quickly. In yesterday's press luncheon he said:
On how to pressure Arizona's quarterback against a line that has only yielded four sacks so far this season and whether that is a concern
"There's no question. I don't know that you're [going to get to Wildcats QB Nick Foles]. You can try to get to him, but they get the ball out so fast, that I don't know. [Even] if they just let a guy run free off the edge, they probably get the ball off. So there's a lot of times where they get the ball out very quickly. But that doesn't mean you just abandon the rush. There's going to have to be times that we mix it up and we pressure and we cover. So that's how we're going to have to go into it."
Clearly, Tedford is conflicted. Of course he wants to pressure the Arizona QB, but he's afraid that it would be futile in some instances. Nevertheless, he does surrender to the idea that you're just going to have to roll the dice some times and bring the pressure - although he seems to imply that the use of added pressure via additional pass rushers is something very strategic and something that will happen judiciously.
(2) It's even harder to sack Canfield because he takes really deep drops even from shotgun. Most teams don't have their QBs drop back much more when the QB is in shotgun, but not Oregon State. Canfield, while in shotgun will still perform a pretty deep three or five step drop, dropping back up to an additional 6 yards from the shotgun location (so he's 11 yards from the LOS) to pass. That makes it especially hard for your pass rush to get to him as since they have to cover more yardage.
(3) My Sunday Morning Couch QB advice for the defense. (Please take this advice with more than a couple of grains of salt, or perhaps more appropriately just ignore it as since I'm not a coach) Clearly, Cal lacks the pass rushers to merely rely on three or four pass rushers to get pressure. Clearly, Cal lacks superior zone coverage players both at the linebacker, cornerback, and safety positions. Despite Arizona's ability to get the ball out quickly on offense to neutralize the blitz, one of the few remaining options I see for the defense is to play tight bump and run man coverage with the cornerbacks, and send five to six pass rushers at the QB fairly often. While blitzing does open yourself up to bigger completions down the field, this should hopefully be minimized with this strategy by the tighter man coverage and applying a quicker pass rush. The quicker pass rush will force the QB to hopefully throw the ball earlier than he wants causing more inaccurate throws, or for him to throw the lower percentage throws. Alternatively the tighter coverage on the receivers may cause him to see nobody as open and hold onto the ball longer thus allowing the pass rush to get to the QB.
Using various pre-snap looks and disguising the coverage and pass rushers can help cause confusion for the offense. The defense already does this, but it should continue to show more pass rushers than it actually pass rushes, and vice versa. Throw in some defensive line stunts for some added spice. Overload blitzes, maybe. Some of these strategies can achieve pressure without actually sending more pass rushers.
I think such a strategy might come as a welcome relief to Cal fans. Of course, it is not guaranteed to work at all. But just the mere fact that Gregory is trying something else will be a relief to fans. It seems as if many fans are desperate for change. Any sort of change. Anything. But even something that perhaps is even worse than Cal's current strategy? Many fans who advocate for a more aggressive offense seem to assume that the results will be better than the current results. Such an assumption may not be true. I understand that when X isn't working, it seems like there is no harm in trying Y. But it is possible that X > Y, and that Y will be more harm than X.
(4) Our offensive line kinda sucks. Against Oregon State, it was pretty bad in the interior positions, namely at LG, C, and RG. I think in general, that is where we are the weakest from week to week.
In the podcast, CBKWit makes the argument that this is one of our highest star rated offensive lines perhaps ever during the Tedford era. CBKWit made this comment in response to my remark suggesting that the OL's poor performance could be a talent issue. It seems that CBKWit might have been disagreeing with me. If that is so, CBKWit is clearly making the assumption that the higher the star rating of the player, the more talented they are. Such a notion is generally true, but not always. CBKWit seems to make it a forgone conclusion that is always true and thus this year's highly rated OL suckage cannot be due to lack of talent; hence obviously a coaching problem. I disagree. I think it's possible that there is a talent issue here, perhaps as well as a coaching issue. I have not discounted the talent issue, whereas CBKWit seems to have done so. CBKWit points to last year's OL which started Guarnero (prior to injury), Cheadle, and Boskovich (after Guarnero's injury) as evidence that this OL shouldn't be this bad due to the fact that so many of this year's starters saw playing time last year and were fairly productive. Last year, I personally thought Guarnero was doing fine at guard. However, I was not that impressed with Cheadle or Boskovich. Furthermore, last year's line was anchored by Alex Mack and Norris Malele who were both three year starters or so. Thus, I am not convinced that just because he have players from last year's OL, which performed decently well although not great, means that this year's OL cannot be suffering from lack of talent.
To summarize my position, I do think we are lacking in talent at the offensive line. However, I am not adverse to the idea that the problems could also be a coaching problem too. Last year, Tedford stated that Cignetti didn't focus on technique with the QBs because as an NFL coach, he was more interested in schemes rather than technique (NFL teams usually assume you have the requisite technique to perform in the NFL already). Marshall is an NFL guy too, and perhaps he's having this same problem.
Prior to this season, I didn't think the entire OL as a whole would be this bad. Although I knew nothing about Marshall, I had hopes that he was proficient enough to sustain an offensive line that can give Best and Vereen 5+ yards per carry even against some of the tougher defenses of the Pac-10 just like the OL seemingly did under Coach Michalczik. But things are pretty bad. The run blocking isn't there. The OL has little explosion off of the line. Power schemes aren't working. Inside zones aren't working. We don't use outside zones any more. Pass blocking is probably the better of the two but still nothing to brag about.
So is it time to fire Marshall? I don't know. I think it's a bit early for that kind of talk. I don't know what he's teaching the kids so I am going to refrain from saying he should be fired. Many Cal fans who want him fired are pointing at the on-field results as evidence of his incompetence. Perhaps that is indicative. Or perhaps we're just lacking talent.
In the past, Cal has had been pretty lucky to have diamond in the rough NFL guys on our OLs. Cal seemingly has always had one or two NFL guys on the offensive lines for most years. But this year, do we have NFL players on the line? Nope. Doubtful. As of now, I don't really see NFL futures for any of these guys. It's possible that one or two could break through and make it big on Sundays, but they sure as hell aren't playing well right now for the 2009 team.
So what do you do when the offensive line sucks? You work around it. You use more deception. Hence the fly sweep fakes - although those have disappeared quite a bit in the past few weeks. You use the wildbear (more flysweep fakes). You use playaction deception to buy the QB time. You don't do a lot of 7 step drops because it requires your OL to pass block longer. You get the ball out quickly. You call short passing plays.
Basically, with the OL not doing that well, you have to limit what you do. Not a lot of deep drops and long developing plays. No straight dropbacks without some sort of deception to buy the QB some time. In other words, our passing game has been limited in its diversity due to the lack of superior offensive line blocking.
(5) Missed tackles still a problem. Missed tackles have been a pretty big problem all year. I guess that's one thing I personally took for granted with having Follett, and especially Felder and Williams around, was that those guys squared up on the ball carriers, and dropped them cleanly. But the current set of guys, they're not quite squaring up perfectly. They're nicking the ball carriers who then squirm away for a few more yards of gain. They're reaching and arm tackling. Have we really seen any of those big square-up hits that Williams and Felder used to always deliver? Nope.
Why is this a problem? Probably due to inexperience, but also because they're not reacting on the ball quick enough. If they were getting there on time then squaring up shouldn't be a problem. But these guys are getting there a bit late, reaching, and arm tackling.
(6) The key to winning this game was through the passing game. Here's the gameplan for the opponents that Cal plays: shut down Cal's running game and force Cal to pass. It's that simple. Cal's passing game has to be clicking for it to win. But Riley and the passing offense were only successful 55.9% of the time today (completion percentage).
Cal's running game was averaging 2.53 yards a rush between Best, Vereen, and Holley. Cal's passing game was averaging 5.9 yards per pass attempt. Game theory says that Cal should have passed more. On the day, Cal ran the ball 24 times, but some of those were sacks so we'll say 22 times. Cal passed the ball 34 times. That's a passing 60.7% of the time, and rushing 39.3% of the time. That's markedly different from usual Cal gameplans that involve rushing the ball anywhere from 55%-65% of the time. Nevertheless, I don't think Cal was passing enough.
I know Tedford and Ludwig like to establish the run first to open up the pass. But it because quite clear early on that OSU was looking to stop the run, and they were being successful in their attempts. You have to just give up on the runs when they're not working at all that early on. You have to use the pass to open up the run, instead of vice versa. So, I am being a bit critical of Ludwig for not pass enough; however, I do understand that when the offense as a whole kind of sucks, no matter what you call you might be screwed six ways to Sunday anyways.
(7) A little slide protection. Cal's first play of the game featured what looked to be a little slide protection. This is something that we have rarely seen in the past 4 years or so. This scheme put Best on the end blocking a defensive end. Best quickly lost this battle which resulted in Riley getting rushed, Riley shoveling off the ball to Best, and Best running for a loss of 4 yards or so.
(8) Magic Numbers revisited. Well, a long time ago I made a prediction on Cal's season based on how well the QB's completion percentage would be. Basically, my reasoning was that Cal's success would be very closely correlated with Cal's passing game success which can more or less be measured via the QB completion percentage.
Here's what I predicted:
If Cal's starting QB can complete greater than 65% of his passes, Cal will most likely have an 11+ win regular season.
If Cal's starting QB completes between 62%-65% of his passes, Cal will most likely have a 10 win regular season.
If Cal's starting QB completes between 60%-62% of his passes, Cal will most likely have a 9 win regular season.
If Cal's starting QB completes between 58%-60% of his passes, Cal will most likely have a 8 win regular season.
If Cal's starting QB completes between 55%-58% of his passes, Cal will most likely have a 7 win regular season.
If Cal's starting QB completes less than 55% of his passes, the 2nd string QB should probably be starting.
I haven't looked at this prediction in a while. And when I just looked at it now for the first time in over a month, I cringed. Right now, Riley is completing 55.6% of his passes. That means, I think Cal could be aimed at a 7 win season this year. Ouch. It hurts even more when you think about how highly ranked we were pre-season and how much we were hyped as the team that could finally beat USC. But in all honesty, all that preseason hype was a bit much. People gave us too much benefit of the doubt. So if you ignore all the pre-season hype, it doesn't hurt as much and it actually makes sense.
Cal had questions at QB, WR, and OL. Simple measures of all their success (or lack thereof) can usually be seen in the the RB's production and the QB's production.
In 2008, Jahvid Best averaged 8.1 yards a carry. This year he's averaging 6.1 yards per carry.
In 2009, Riley completed 50.7% of his passes. This year he's completing 55.6% of his passes.
While the QB completion percentage has gone up, it's still bad. To put things into perspective, Kyle Boller only completed 53.6% of his passes in 2002. Cal clearly is having offense problems. So what are the causes of the problems? For the most part, I think it's talent talent talent.... err, lack thereof.
Passing and rushing begins in the trenches. It starts with the OL opening up holes and sustaining pass blocks. They haven't been getting that production. There haven't been holes. There haven't been great pass blocks. Whether the problem is due to incompetent coaching or lack of talent is debatable but I think the problem is mostly just lack of talent. In a couple years we'll probably have our answer when we know if any of this year's starters are playing on Sundays, but I'm already pretty sure the answer is going to be no.
(9) Coach critique. I'm not too fond of dishing out tons of coach criticism because I'm not at practices. I'm not seeing what the coaches are teaching the kids and how they are handling things. All I can do now is look at the on-field results and try and make some sort of judgment from that. But even then, on the field results aren't always indicative of the coaches. As good as a coach may be, some players just aren't talented enough or just make untimely mistakes. Sometimes there's nothing more that you can do about it. Some players have it, and some don't. Some players perform better than others regardless of the coaching they receive. That is one of the truest facts in any type of performative sport or performance. The greatest coaching in the world can't make up for the lack of innate talent and innate consistency.
But as Ragnarok said in the podcast, if we merely step aside and don't critique the coaches because we lack the requisite knowledge or because we're not at practice, we're simply putting the state of the program in Tedford's hands and admitting our own ignorance. Ragnarok calls this a "cop out" and seems to think it's an unsatisfactory alternative. It seems as if he thinks fans should have a voice despite our lack of knowledge and connectedness to the program. I know a lot of fans feel the same way. I am not going to argue that we can't critique the coaches. Certainly, fans have the freedom to do so. But that doesn't mean the critique is accurate or even warranted. You'd never think that from reading some of the critiques though. By the sound of it, a lot of us are genius football coaches. Go ahead and critique the coaches, but I just wish there was a little more self-awareness of our lack of substantive football knowledge and knowledge of the situation.
With that out of the way, allow me to critique the coaches. Please disregard everything from here on out because, well, let's face it, I'm a cook not a football coach.
Alamar. He has to get it together. Special teams have sucked for a while. I've been pretty tolerant of it. But now I'm finally growing tired of it. Kickoff coverage is below average. Kick return blocking sucks. Our field goal kickers haven't been great despite supposedly getting some of the top kicking talent in the nation. Our place kickers have been unsatisfactory for the past few years too. Perhaps Alamar should just do TEs, and we should bring in a dedicated special teams coach?
Ludwig. I'm a bit perplexed why the offense seems to have become less diverse over the past few weeks than what we saw earlier on in the season. Perhaps Ludwig was merely trying out new things early in the season. Maybe that's all he was doing, but I think it was working too. It gave defenses a lot to think about and it kept the off guard. But the offense as of late has seemed to become less diverse and I find it a little disappointing. I also would like to see a bit more down-field passing. I think Riley is best throwing the deep balls, such as gos/flys. He's pretty good at posts too. He's perhaps shown the most accuracy with the seam routes. We've been very successful with the seam throws against opponent zones and even man coverage (Minnesota game, ASU game, OSU too). We have the TE to make those tough catches too, in Anthony Miller.
In regards to Ludwig is calling bubble screens and easy swing passes, I understand those are generally easy passes and a safe way to keep the defense honest and from stacking the box completely, but I'm not sure Riley's even that good at those throws. I have no idea who Zennie Abraham is, but he has noted that Riley's best throws are the routes which do not require "leading" the WR. In other words, routes without a lot of lateral movement. I hadn't quite thought about it like that, but I certainly had noticed that Riley's best routes were the deeper down-the-field routes (which require little lateral "leading" of the receivers). As Mr. Abraham notes, Riley consistently misses those bubble and swing passes. Sometimes the passes are behind the receiver (backward passes), and thus laterals which can be fumbled and recovered by the defense. The passes need to be forward passes. Riley is also just a bit slow to throw the bubble screen passes. He doesn't get the ball out to the WR quick enough.
Does Ludwig need to be fired? I don't think so. Not yet. Going through so many offensive coordinators has hurt the offense. As I reported in my Emerald Bowl Pep Rally and Luncheon report, one of Cal's notable starting offensive linemen of the 2008 squad felt that the team was still not 100% confident and proficient in the new pass blocking schemes that Cignetti brought to the offense in 2008. Ludwig has shown promise. And I think with more talent, we can do just fine with him. For now, I think we should keep him to maintain some continuity for the Cal offense that it has needed for a long time.
Gregory. I do think he's a better coach than most people think. Nobody was complaining about Gregory in 2008 when the defense was dominating. But people are complaining this year. What's the big difference between 2008 and 2009? The loss of three great linebackers who all had multiple years of starting experience, a decline in Hagan's abilities (he missed some of fall camp, and I think he self-admittedly stated that he wasn't quite pushing himself as much as he could), and a decline in Ezeff's abilities (missing practices to take a class). Oh, and a pretty crappy offense which isn't giving the defense any help. I don't think this year's defensive struggles are really due to lack of defensive coaching. I see it mostly as a talent issue. The guys just aren't as talented as last year's players, and they aren't as talented as we all hoped they would be at the start of the season. The DL is fine. But the LBs only have about half of their game together. They're pretty good at stopping the run but they're pretty bad in pass coverage. The DBs have been pretty bad except for Syd. Overall, I think the defensive woes are more a talent issue, than coaching.
Tedford. Many of us might not like how he runs the program, or how he keeps certain positional coaches or coordinators around. Nevertheless, I do think he's still the right coach for Cal. Few could have done what he did with our shoddy program. Even fewer would have stuck around like he did through the thick and thin. He is completely dedicated to this program. That shows. That helps sell this program. It sells it to recruits. He also has honor and a reputable reputation. He raises the kids first and foremost to be good upstanding people in the world. It's life and academics first; football second. Football just isn't about winning games. Tedford recognizes this. He hasn't sacrificed morals, or jeopardized the University's reputation to win a few more games unlike other notable coaches around the country. Tedford has shown a willingness to challenge himself, reflect, and learn from his mistakes. Not all coaches have the courage to set aside their own stubbornness and pride to say they were wrong and that changes need to be made. Perhaps Tedford still has to make more changes within his positional and coordinating coaches ranks. Perhaps he will. But of all the coaches on the Cal Football team right now, I do think that Tedford is the most important of them all. There should be little talk of firing Tedford. Things have not gotten that bad yet at all. He has set the program in the right direction. With more time, talent, shiny new facilities, and a supportive fan base, I do think he can officially get us to a BCS bowl or the Rose Bowl.
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162 comments
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Comments
Great post, as usual.
I’ve read naysayers on this blog who have posted that when the defense does well, it’s due to their talent and in spite of Gregory. When the defense does poorly, it’s entirely due to Gregory. In other words, Gregory can do no right. Ignoring the unintentional comedy of this viewpoint, there’s an interesting question therein with regard to how much a defense can change based on the abilities of one player. Stating the obvious, part of the DC’s job is to put the player in a position to succeed, and part of the player’s job is to execute his defensive assignment.
How would you apportion the successes or failures in pass coverage between the two? If the zone coverage fundamentally is incapable of handling a Canfield-type QB, then we should be looking upstream to the pass rush instead of at the secondary. This is an argument in favor of more pass rush. Alternately, if the players were missing their zones and missing tackles, then obviously the players didn’t play well last game but the scheme was ok. And in reality, I know it’s a combination of both. Assigning 100% of the responsibility to one side or the other makes no sense.
There’s bound to be room for improvement; I’d just like to know where it’s going to come from.
by sec119 on Nov 11, 2009 6:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do you have the percentage breakdown of times we rushed 3, 4, 5, or more?
I’d be curious to see this statistic. I’m guessing we rushed 3 more than we did 5 and 3 almost as many times as we did 4.
Also, even if Canfield is able to effectively check down to avoid and neutralize the blitz, he is more than capable of destroying a defense that gives him 5,6, or 7 seconds to get rid of the ball. I think I could find someone open given the ammount of time he had out there.
Nice post as usual even though I disagree with point 1.
by 33SwisherSweet on Nov 11, 2009 8:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
No, I don’t have that percentage. That would make for an interesting post. It’s something I would do if I had more time.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And….I pretty much agree with everything, especially this:
But for the most part, only 4 pass rushers were devoted to pressuring Canfield. I agree with this strategy. I do not think more pass rushers should have been sent to pressure Canfield.
4 is the optimal number of rushers. That’s why base defense involves a 4 man rush. Of course you need to mix it up some, but that doesn’t change the fact that most times we should look to rush 4 guys. If only we could find a good rush linebacker…
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Your post basically alludes to Gregory's ability
Gregory. I do think he’s a better coach than most people think. Nobody was complaining about Gregory in 2008 when the defense was dominating. But people are complaining this year. What’s the big difference between 2008 and 2009? The loss of three great linebackers who all had multiple years of starting experience, a decline in Hagan’s abilities (he missed some of fall camp, and I think he self-admittedly stated that he wasn’t quite pushing himself as much as he could), and a decline in Ezeff’s abilities (missing practices to take a class). Oh, and a pretty crappy offense which isn’t giving the defense any help. I don’t think this year’s defensive struggles are really due to lack of defensive coaching. I see it mostly as a talent issue. The guys just aren’t as talented as last year’s players, and they aren’t as talented as we all hoped they would be at the start of the season. The DL is fine. But the LBs only have about half of their game together. They’re pretty good at stopping the run but they’re pretty bad in pass coverage. The DBs have been pretty bad except for Syd. Overall, I think the defensive woes are more a talent issue, than coaching.
Not many complained last year because the LB corps were among the best in the conference, but this shows the D solely relies on experience. Coaching here clearly makes the difference with inexperienced players.
by ultraseven on Nov 11, 2009 9:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think it’s fair to say it solely relies on experience. Experience generally helps any defense, but it’s as much about just being a good player as anything else. Look at our secondary for instance, that’s the exact opposite of our linebackers – the experience isn’t helping them any, they just aren’t all that good. Our linebackers last year, simply put, were just talented. That will help any defensive scheme, and hurt any defensive scheme when you lose them.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
These are the same tired arguments used to defend Longshore. Just as tired as my argument/position
that defending Gregory is akin to defending Longshore. Does anyone suck or can we rationalize any and all shortcomings?
by 33SwisherSweet on Nov 11, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not experience, it’s turnovers. Look at the interceptions last year vs this year and 2007. In 2006 Hughes was ballhawking all over the place. BBDB is great when you have key turnovers to end those long drives. But when an interception turns into a long gain on 3rd and 9, well you’re screwed. Schemes have to be able to adjust to what’s happening on the field. I’m sure a lack of talent plays a role in this as well this year, but there comes a time when you have to be able to put people in place to make a stop.
I’m also thinking that rotating the LBs around this season hasn’t helped. They’re still thinking about their roles vs reacting and playing fast.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, Turkey!!!
Gregory, has shown a constant/persistant/demoralizing inability to make adjustments.
Also, how the hell do you give up 440 yards + to WSU. De la Salle could probably beat that team.
by 33SwisherSweet on Nov 11, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, turnovers is a factor, and talent leads to turnovers. Perhaps schemes can be better, but talent is still missing.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with your statement for the reasons set forth by Missing Barry.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m kind of concerned, it seems we’re pretty much in agreement on every point out there…
I don’t know if that’s good or bad, I just don’t like agreeing with someone that often!
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I never thought I would see the day that this Blog dare criticize a coach…all those years with the CGB’ers sitting in their ivory tower, looking down at the poor layman fan. Welcome to the masses boys, enjoy the stench.
by ryandrew on Nov 11, 2009 9:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
We have an ivory tower? How come I’m forced to live in my mother’s basement, then? What’s up with that? Where is our ivory tower, RyAndrew, I gotta move!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You not knowing about it was deliberate…
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like ryandrew is my only friend on this blog. Thank you, ryandrew. Your delightfully snotty comment has opened my eyes to untapped potential for condescension.
And to think, I was being insufficiently condescending before!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“FIRE GREGFORDWIGAMARROPEGUY”
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 11, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FIREGREGFORDWIGAMARROPEGUY.com
Cal Football: It could happen!
by CalBandGreat on Nov 11, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will sit on my throne in the ivory tower
And ask you to go fuck yourself
In other words, Go Bears!
by royrules22 on Nov 11, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why are you always like this? Not only are your comments intentionally inflammatory, but they lack anything remotely close to wit. Yes, I get it, RyAndrew didn’t exactly make any friends with his comment here. But you have to ask yourself, are you helping diffuse the situation or inflame the situation?
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In other words, being funny allows you to get away with being an asshat. Be funnier, or be less of an asshat.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
by ragnarok on Nov 11, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m still a little unclear on the whole “asshat” thing, but once that gets cleared up, I think I’d agree to this.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, ryandrew, I’ve criticized the coaches before.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Making comments against this blog is fine, but making comments against this blog without actually reading it is just being an ‘asshat’. Because, if you weren’t an asshat, you would realize that there was a front page post that essentially said ‘this coach sucks’ in the title within a week of your comment. However, you are an asshat and thus do asshatty things.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 12, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like we’re going to see a whole new level of frustration if Cal loses to both Zona and Furd by 14+.
Also, I hope Tedford’s allowed the payroll flexibility to hire the right people. Could he spend 600,000 on a defensive coordinator like Washington did with Nick Holt?
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
by carp on Nov 11, 2009 9:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Under the best circumstances it would be kind of early to call that money well spent, and we are talking about a guy whose defense gave up a last second hail mary to Danny Sullivan.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Nov 11, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
Under the best circumstances it would be kind of early to call that money well spent, and we are talking about a guy whose defense gave up a last second hail mary to Danny Sullivan inexplicably let ASU’s best receiver run wide open in the middle of the field on the last play of regulation to lose the game.
Praise be to Tedford!
by Ohio Bear on Nov 11, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While I see your point, you do realize we were about 3 feet from losing that game. Josh Hill, I believe, saved it?
And that 80 yard bomb was all kinds of crazy.
"We lose to Stanford in many sports, but if you want to make a Cal team quit, bring a weapon."
--Coach Clark
by carp on Nov 11, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Essentially, your argument in defense of Gregory is that he suffers as a result
of a lack of talent. The counter to this position is that last year he benefited from supreme talent. Our D has been average to below average the majority of his tenure. Wouldn’t change be a good thing here? Change we can believe in.
As Bill Clinton said in a speech to the Senate yesterday, “the worst thing you can do is nothing.” Let’s keep running Longshore out there because it’s everyone elses fault and while we’re at it let’s keep running the same tired/ineffective defensive game plan out there because, hey, it’s not Gregory’s fault.
by 33SwisherSweet on Nov 11, 2009 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Agree in two different ways
One: Re: saying we don’t have the talent this year. Who recruits these players? Who is responsible for making sure we don’t have feast or famine (i.e. enough returning starters where the defense isn’t all freshman in an extreme example)? The coaches.
Two: What is the one constant in this equation? Players come and go, some stay 4-5 years, some don’t, etc. What is the one constant? The coaches. (and yes, I understand that Assts come and go too—but my point here is with Gregory specifically. You could also argue that Gregory/Tedford hires these Assts, so they are responsible for how good/bad these coaches are as well)
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am a major believer in the opportunistic blitzing theory to yield maximum pressure on the opposing QB. What I am frustrated w/, or do not understand, is why Gregory hasn’t been showing any creativity since last year. For example, in 2008 we saw db blitzs coming from Ezeff or Syd. Fast forward to this season the Cal D has had virtually no success penetrating the line the scrimmage because there’s a pattern that Cal would only pass rush 3 or perhaps a LB and drop into zone coverage. This symptom gets even more apparent when Cal falls behind. Granted, the idea is not to let the big plays beat us. Let me counter and argue that predictability is the enemy here and variability keeps the opposing offense off-balance. Let’s at least try to line-up, shift, or jump as if we are going to blitz from the late Jimmie Johnson schemes. The worst we could do is drop back into zone again, but the rewards could be false-starts or sacks.
by solarise on Nov 11, 2009 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well, we have used some corner blitzes earlier this year, but for some reason they seem to have disappeared from the gameplan lately. To be fair to Gregory, we still rushed 3 last year too. The only difference between the results of rushing 3 last year and this year is we had higher performing players on the team last year.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there were several big plays in the OSU game
BBDB, or should I say, patented Bob Gregory defense didn’t work.
It’s not a recent development, buy many fans have started calling for his sack since the 2005 season short of putting Ayoob on the guillotine.
by ultraseven on Nov 11, 2009 10:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Bob Gregory does not run a bend but don’t break defense That’s a made up term. No defense wants to give up yards. The goal is to get the ball back without allowing points. Consistently giving up yardage will lead to points.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Consistently giving up yardage while not generating any turnovers leads to points.
BBDB is a way of saying my defensive game planning sucks, but I need to explain away my ineptitude somehow.
by 33SwisherSweet on Nov 11, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure if you mean Gregory explains his defense as BBDB or what?
I heard an interview with him a year or two ago, and when he was asked about BBDB, he said that was absolutely not his philosophy.
Just trying to clarify
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Playcalling
I truly appreciate the time you all put into this blog. It has made the pain of this season just a little easier to bear.
There was one definitive moment in the game that made me cringe, and made the Sierra Nevada in my pint glass start to go down two to three times as fast.
Cal was down by 7 in their third series of the game (3:43 to go in the 1st quarter). Starting at our 36, Jahvid ran for 5 yards, then 4 yards, leaving 3rd and 1 at our 45. You need one yard to keep a key drive alive after OSU just got the first score of the game. One of the best running backs in the nation just ran for 5, then 4 yards. And the call is to give the ball to the fullback and send him straight up the middle for no gain. The defense is obviously expecting run. That play put way to much faith in our offensive line. Give the ball to Best, and even if his hole does not materialize, odds are he finds another way to get the yard.
Time and time again this season there have been questionable calls at key moments. At a time like this, we needed to pull a “sure-thing” play out of our pocket. I like Holley a lot, but sending him up the pipe is not that play.
But what do I know? I played water polo.
by MBbear on Nov 11, 2009 10:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I remember that play, that was very frustrating. We generally have a history of success on that play, tho.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the Holley play call was good, that usually is a sure thing for 2 or 3 yards. The interior oline just simply limits what plays can be called, it seems.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. It was a good call. What if Best got stuffed? Then people would be complaining about how horrible the playcalling was and calling for a handoff to Holley.
On this play, Cheadle fell down and the MLB who was his responsibility came in and made the play. WHile I’m picking at the OL, Guarnerno fell down, too, and Bosko was moved back. The interior lacked any push forward on the this play.
by Cali49a on Nov 11, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One of the best running backs in the nation just ran for 5, then 4 yards.
He’s not one of the best running backs in the nation in 3rd-and-short situations; far from it.
dboneisloose
by HolmoePhobe on Nov 11, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is not one of the best running backs in the nation if he is running behind our offensive line, or lack thereof.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 12, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the call. Like others above had said, Best is unreliable in 3rd and short situations. If he doesn’t have a hole, it’s unlikely he’ll pick up anything (especially since, like you said, the defense is expecting a run). Holley seemed much more likely to grind out an extra yard or two.
Whose domicile? OUR DOMICILE!
by Berkelium97 on Nov 11, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One fair point is at least giving it to Best means we have a fullback paving the way to try to help create a hole…
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I normally like this call, but you may have a point. Our interior line simply hasn’t been getting it done all year, especially in the run game, so it may be fair to say we’re relying too much on them in that situation. For the majority of Tedford teams, though (or even if we still had Mack), though, I like that call a lot.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t have a problem with that playcall. The offense should be able to pick up one measly yard regardless of who is carrying the ball. I can accept the argument that Best or Vereen is more likely to gain 1 yard than Holley, but even with Holley carrying the ball 1 yard should be pretty automatic.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if a LB/DL meets the runner a yard or two behind the LOS, who that runner is becomes irrelevant.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, the problem isn’t hte runner, the problem is blocking at the point of attack.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm no football officianado.
I played in high school and am a casual fan of the college game in general. But when I can anticipate an unexpected play (my two examples this year are the halfback pass out of the WildBear @ ASU and the Holley run up the middle on 3rd and 1) then it’s probably going to fail for being too predictable.
My REAL frustrations with playcalling are how much we run between the tackles given the talent (!!!) of our O-line and those swing passes to the RB in the flat (OSU game a prime example) that didn’t work several times in the row and we NEVER did any variation of it (like a pump and go, sucker the DB/LB in and throw to TE over their head, etc.). Those become totally wasted plays at that point.
I'd like to smell the Roses before I die.
by BTown85 on Nov 11, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Have to agree here. Running between the tackles is just ditchable at this point in the season, sad to say
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I stand by my OL comments
Obviously star ratings are not everything, not remotely. Alex Mack is a GREAT example. But they cannot be completely discredited, and guys like Matt Summers-Gavin, Mitchell Schwartz, Justin Cheadle, and Chris Guarnero were considered to be more talented out of high school than previous offensive linemen. It’s not just that they were ranked higher by recruiting services – just look at who recruited these guys, as opposed to who recruited some of our previous offensive linemen.
This is consistent with what we’ve seen on the field: Mitchell Schwartz was starting at tackle as a freshman last year. Chris Guarnero was so good that they moved him to Guard last year so he wouldn’t have to sit behind Mack for another year. Cheadle and Summers-Gavin both beat out more experienced, lesser recruited guys at guard. These are things we just didn’t see from previous, less highly touted players.
I think a much greater issue than talent is experience. These are all young guys, freshman and sophomores with Guarnero a junior. Still, they are playing in front of experienced scholarship guys, like Teofilo and Prueitt. The coaches must feel the young guys are the better players at this point.
At this point, all I can say is let’s see what Tedford does in the offseason. He obviously is a better judge of coaching than I am, and he has had the benefit of seeing a very good offensive line coach, coach M, up close for the last 7 years. The jury is still out on Marshall, but so far the results have been very disappointing.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Nov 11, 2009 11:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I understand the lack of experience on the line is a factor, but that also leads to the conclusion there should be improvement as the season goes on. If anything, I feel like they’ve regressed….
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously star ratings are not everything, not remotely…But they cannot be completely discredited…
Kevin Bemoll is laughing now :)
I think a much greater issue than talent is experience. These are all young guys, freshman and sophomores with Guarnero a junior. Still, they are playing in front of experienced scholarship guys, like Teofilo and Prueitt. The coaches must feel the young guys are the better players at this point.
Agreed. This is what I was saying in a different blog post. We had a lot of recruiting misses in the 2005 and 2006 recruiting years and we’re paying for it now. I do believe these guys will get better – they can’t get much worse – but how much better they get will TBD.
by Cali49a on Nov 11, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pass defense
I appreciate and respect your level headed approach. However, I have to disagree with your assessment of the the defensive coaching. Aside from Rulon Davis (who was injury plagued and replaced by Cameron Jordan), the defensive front is the same. The secondary and secondary coach are the same. And while I’d admit Follett had an impact pass rushing from his LB postion, Mohammed often replaced Felder or Williams in passing situations. Sometimes Young was out there too; other times not. The point is, however you want to label their ‘talent’ level, it’s pretty much the same crew as last year and they are noticeably worse in all facets of pass defense. Ezeff is a senior. Missing practice doesn’t help but should it really matter that much? Their positioning and technique have regressed. I wouldn’t say they have become ‘less talented’. I’d say the coaching has failed them, or worse, their scheme. Remember, this unit was near the top of the NCAAs in picks last year. I just don’t think you can cite Follett, Felder and Williams’ departure as the reason why opponents completion percentage has skyrocketed this year. I don’t know what the answer is, but the question definitely needs to be asked.
by JDS21 on Nov 11, 2009 11:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I really don’t think a lot of folks understand the impact of losing one player can do to a defense. You are right that this is essentially the same DL and Secondary, but the LB is a lot different and less experienced than you think or want to admit.
Take a look at Follet’s numbers last year and compare them to the WHOLE LBer crew from this year.
Sacks
Follett: 10.5
This year: 7.5
TFLs
Follett: 23
This Year: 27.5
QB Hurries:
Follett: 4
This year: 5
Forced Fumbles
Follett: 4
This year: 3
Follett’s production from last year alone was almost as good or even better than the whole LBer crew up to this point this year. When you lose that kind of production from just one player one year and can’t generate it the next year, you are going to have problems. Add in the loss of experience from Felder and Williams, and you can see why the LB crew this year is a major step down from last year. The LBers in the 3-4 are supposed to be the guys making the big time plays. They simply are not doing that this year.
The scheme is not the issue. It’s players making plays. Bad tackling angles, no pressure from the LB rush position, mistackles, mistakes in coverage , inexperienced talent – it all adds up and can be seen in the OSU game.
by Cali49a on Nov 11, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Good stats. I agree that Follett was a disruptive force. I just have a hard time accepting that our coaches haven’t been able to find a way to compensate if there is indeed a talent ‘gap’. Isn’t that what they’re paid for? I just shudder to think what next year has in store when this defense loses it’s two most talented and productive players (Thompson & Alualu).
by JDS21 on Nov 11, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The obvious way to compensate is to bring more blitzers. But is that the best way? I rewatched the first 2 OSU drives vs our D and in the first 9 defensive snaps of the game, we sent 5 two times. Results? Two first downs and a 58 yard completion that set up their first TD. Blitzing can be good but it’s not always the answer.
The coaches are paid to find ways to compensate for the ‘talent gap’ but there’s only so many ways they can with what they have to work with. It’s kind of like a boss that tells you to produce 100 units of this but only gives you enough money to make 75 of them.
by Cali49a on Nov 11, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the thing is the Rush Linebacker is one of the things that makes a 3-4 work. I’ve said it elsewhere, you either need one guy that can consistently get it done in that position (think of Demarcus Ware or Shawn Merriman) or a few linebackers that are effective rushing but maybe not one elite one (like the Patriots tend to have). We’ve decided that’s the scheme we’re using, and last year it worked great because we had that rush linebacker. This year no one has stepped up in that role. We don’t have one guy that can get it done like last year with Follett, nor do we have a few guys that are effective enough to get it done when the defense doesn’t know which one will be coming. Basically none of our LB’s, at the current time, have the full range of skills to play LB AND rush the passer effectively.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The hope is that some of the underclassmen will get better; it IS college football after all, where there are big differences between upperclassmen and underclassmen.
by sec119 on Nov 11, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh dear god do not make me think about life without Tyson. He has been our defense at times this year.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 12, 2009 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I’m still going to have to disagree with you. You seem to be talking about the 3-3 last year, and how some of our more talented LBs came off the field. That is true. However, we still used the 3-4 in many situations and those talented LBs were on the field.
Missing practice doesn’t matter? I don’t know if you’ve ever played any sort of sport or performing art, but I have, and I’m sure anyone else that has will say that practice does matter. It really does. Some of the other Marshawnthusiasts were in the Cal Band during their senior year of college. Just because they’re seniors doesn’t mean they would learn the week’s show without practicing the new formations (scheme) and practicing fundamentals (marching).
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes, I did play many sports, football included and I was a DB. As far as their base formation, I know they play(ed) the 3-4. Young returned and Follett, Williams and Felder graduated. Mohammed was, I believe, one of the leading tacklers on the team last year. I didn’t say practice didn’t matter. What I meant was that he’s a senior in the same scheme as last year against teams that haven’t changed their scheme this year (versus last year — Pac 10 play). Therefore, their underperformance (lack of man recognition in their zones, ball recognition) surprsies me somewhat.
by JDS21 on Nov 11, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly, at some point you have to question the coaching, at least to a certain extent. Despite my previous somewhat snarky comments, I do love this blog. Its definitely one of the best sports blogs out there, and it does a great job breaking down film. However, I do have two minor quibbles. #1: Maybe think of toning down the patronizing attitude a bit. Far too many blogs entries start off with the premise of simply dispelling "myths" that are circulating around other boards (ie bearinsider board). For example, it will go "oh the "fans" think this, but they are wrong, and this is why." I think a lot of times you guys are right, but a lot of times you are wrong as well. I appreciate your efforts to educate the masses, but just tone down the condescending manner in which you do it. You guys do know a lot about football, but remember that there are other Cal football fans that know a lot too (and have been fans much longer than you), so their opinions may not be as absurd as you think. My #2 quibble is the tendency of this blog to refuse to criticize the coaching. Its always about how the players fail to execute, or how they lack the talent. Sure, a lot of times it is a lack of execution, but sometimes its scheme as well, or lack of coaching technique, or maybe the coaches simply fail to devise a scheme that will allow the players to be put in the best position to execute. The attitude that "we don’t see what’s going on in practice, so who are we to question the coaching" doesn’t fly with me. This may be an imperfect analogy, but the Bush White House probably knew a lot more about running the government than I did, but even though I wasn’t in on all of the meetings, I’m pretty darn sure they were doing something wrong. I’m glad though that things have gotten so bad with the team’s performance that the CDG’ers are finally starting to realize that maybe its not all of the player’s fault.
Now if they would just admit that Longshore sucks, that would really be something.
by ryandrew on Nov 11, 2009 12:05 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd. Right and Right again.
1st, this is the best Cal blog and there is no substitute. I’m on board with this blog.
And ryandrews points are totally correct. And Longshore sucks. :-)
Hydro, thanks for the long and thoughtful post. On your point #1, we just flat out disagree. I’d really like to see the stats on how many rushers we use, but even so, I just think you’re off on this one. The points and losses speak against you.
Yet your point #3 basically matches my thinking. So are we agreeing now? I feel like you do a 180 here. If trying some more risk with man coverage and varied blitzing is a good idea for AZ, why not OSU? Why defend the OSU choices?
Here’s food for thought – we lost. We gave up 31 points. If we tried something risky, I admit there’s a risk we do worse. So what? Give up 42 points? That’s not a solid argument alone, but if your defense is playing poorly enough, you can argue you might as well let the other team score faster. Get your D off the field, and tell them to give 110% on an aggressive scheme the next time they’re out. Get your O back on the field and let them try again and MAYBE they’ll get in rhythm. I’d rather see an aggressive D that breaks but doesn’t bend, and maybe gets some awesome sacks and INTs.
Let’s say that instead of giving OSU 4 TDs and a FG for X minutes of possession, you got 4TDs, a FG, an INT and two 3 & outs with 3 more possessions, but less total Time of possession for OSU. And our O got on the field 3 more times.
Where you’re playing from behind, it’s better to give up points quickly than slowly.
You have to play a different D when you’re at disadvantage! We play the same D as when we have advantage and it fails. When you have advantage you can afford to run that style of D, because the other team can’t quickly rack up points on you. And you MIGHT get a punt.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps when I have more spare time, I will attempt to look at how the percentages of how many times we rushed three, four, five, etc. pass rushers. This probably won’t be something that I get to until Christmas break though.
Regarding #3, I personally don’t like the way Gregory gets aggressive (sending more pass rushers). Most of the time, but not all the time, it seems as if Gregory blitzes and maintains the coverage as zone. I prefer, and this is merely my preference, blitzing and playing man coverage as since the bump and run and tighter coverage can make for very tough passes. So, my point is, if we are going to get more aggressive, I would like to see a change in the coverage.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here’s food for thought – we lost. We gave up 31 points. If we tried something risky, I admit there’s a risk we do worse. So what? Give up 42 points? That’s not a solid argument alone, but if your defense is playing poorly enough, you can argue you might as well let the other team score faster. Get your D off the field, and tell them to give 110% on an aggressive scheme the next time they’re out. Get your O back on the field and let them try again and MAYBE they’ll get in rhythm. I’d rather see an aggressive D that breaks but doesn’t bend, and maybe gets some awesome sacks and INTs.
I understand your point. But let the other team score faster to get your D off the field (b/c they’re playing poorly) just give the offense another chance? This idea seems to hinge on the hope that the offense gets into rhythm, which it hasn’t been. This strategy can quickly snowball into the other team scoring quickly and our offense 3-and-outing. Maybe we do get some awesome sacks and INTs. That’s always possible. But in general, even if your defense is bad, I think you want to keep them out there longer so they at least have more opportunities to get sacks and INTs. That’s the thing about being aggressive, is you usually reduce the amount of plays that the defense is out there (for better and for worse), reducing the opportunities they have for sacks and INTs.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s say that instead of giving OSU 4 TDs and a FG for X minutes of possession, you got 4TDs, a FG, an INT and two 3 & outs with 3 more possessions, but less total Time of possession for OSU. And our O got on the field 3 more times.
Okay, so the offense saw the field 3 more times. They have to score those three times. Otherwise, if they end up punting, we’re just giving the ball right back to the defense. I see what you’re saying though. This strategy can (1) either lead to a bit shoot-out, or (2) lead to us losing by a lot more.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My idea is only viable in a limited circumstance:
Namely that you realize your D is in deep trouble. Go ahead, come out for a few series on D with your favorite vanilla defense that you hope is executed well and wins the game. When the opposing QB lights you up, AND your offense is not keeping pace – CHANGE. PLEASE.
Central tenet of my philosophy: adjust to the circumstances, when you are down on points, and/or down on talent, DO something. Smart fans will recognize that on the field, and enjoy watching you try, and put your players in a ‘had a chance to win’ situation, even if you lose, and give up some big plays and lose by 7-14 more points than we did on Saturday. And if you win, you’re a genius.
In the press conference, you explain it, win or lose. “We went out there aggressively, we had to, the way that QB and OL was executing in the 1st half. We were behind and I told my guys we needed to make something happen, so we switched things up to man, brought a nice variety of safety and corner blitzes and overload packages, and…”
(case win:) “…it went our way. We get that nice INT in the 3rd quarter, we got 3 sacks and I think put him off his rhythm a bit. We got a punt after we got some pressure and he was forced to make short throws and the deep routes they hurt us with in the first half didn’t have time to develop. We did give up the long TD in the 4th, which was just a case of a well thrown ball, and a missed tackle in man coverage – that CB had no safety help because of the blitz I called, and he was that close to batting it away. But our offense put together a couple of really nice drives, gave us just enough points to win, and I think we set the tempo in the 2nd half instead of just getting pushed back.”
(case lose:) “… it didn’t go our way. Let me give credit to the other team, they really executed their offensive game plan. I was really pleased our guys brought a lot of pressure on the QB, but credit that young man with not being fazed and getting the ball off quickly so often. We played a lot of man coverage, and our guys did a great job, but when the WR and QB run things perfectly you can’t stop them without getting a flag for PI. I don’t blame our guys – they are really working hard out there, and I think I put us in the best position to get some turnovers and shake the offense up, but the other team really played a great game and I think it shows how strong the Pac-10 is.” (And then the head coach explains that he was proud of the effort on Defense, and just wished the offense could have kept up – they had a lot of chances with the ball, but couldn’t put points up on enough drives to win the game.)
Contrast this make-believe press conference with what you heard this week. Tedford said “we got out-coached”. Congratulations. That’s a mistake – you should be at LEAST on par with coaching, win or lose, in your mind, and everyone elses. If you got out-played, I understand, but out-coached? What the hell is your excuse?
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I’d rather see (1) or (2) then what I got Saturday. And you can’t predict it’d be by a lot more. How about we try it and see? If my method yields 60 points all the time, than OK, forget it. But I’ve watched a few other teams play aggressive defense like I have in mind (including Cal some years!) and I’ve seen it work sometimes.
Let me make sure I also back up your suggestion to switch to man sometimes in conjunction with pressure. If your zone is struggling, merely removing 1-2 DBs from it is not going to help (if that QB can get the ball off).
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
100% agree with this post
As someone who posts infrequently, but used to read this blog almost every day, ryandrew hits the #1 & #2 reasons I don’t participate more and have begun to read less frequently
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am the worst offender of your two points and perhaps the only offender.
I will not deny that I have often come across as patronizing and condescending; and I have refused to criticize the coaches.
I believe I set forth enough explanation of why I don’t like to criticize coaches in my post above so I will forgo that analysis again.
As for why I come across as patronizing and condescending… I don’t know a lot about football. I really don’t. However, I do know some stuff. Stuff I’ve learned from reading articles, reading books, listening to smarter people talk about football, watching games over and over, and from my experience with the team itself. But then I hear people critique the team or make comments about the team that are just plain incorrect and very poorly thought out, yet these people make these statements as if they are football geniuses and they have a complete 100% understanding of the situation and what’s going on football-wise. I find that laughable. So I try to set the record straight with what limited knowledge I have. Of course I probably should be very respectful and void of any condescending or patronizing tone, but sometimes I just lose patience with all of the fans who claim the knowledge to be able to fix what’s going on with the team.
So, I apologize if I offend people with my attitude. I’m pretty sure I’m the only offender of the Marshawnthusiasts. The others have much more patience than I do. I lost my patience with our fan base back in 2007 over the Longshore debate. Longshore certainly had some problems back in 2007, but there were other problems on the field too. Problems that fans refuse to see because they have vilified Longshore so much in their minds that they can’t stand removing blame from him.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:10 PM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd. I like that you make it a dialogue...
And in no way do I want to silence you. But all are open to criticism, and I gave it. Thanks for reading and responding. Keep up the good work (and continue to be prepared for criticism or praise as I see fit).
It is a blog.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hydro likes to claim that he’s the only condescending one here, but that’s a dirty, dirty lie. I’m the most condescending one! I’m so much better at being condescending than the rest of you guys!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU, on the other hand, might need silencing
JK.
Twist: being condescending to yourself doesn’t count, but you are much better at it than the rest of us. :-)
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not easy to look down at myself, but I’m getting pretty good at it.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That might be true. But nobody is worse than Nestor and the Bruin Nation.
Defending Jacquizz against Jahvid since 2008.
by The VD Special on Nov 11, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Far too many blogs entries start off with the premise of simply dispelling “myths” that are circulating around other boards (ie bearinsider board). For example, it will go "oh the “fans” think this, but they are wrong, and this is why." I think a lot of times you guys are right, but a lot of times you are wrong as well. I appreciate your efforts to educate the masses, but just tone down the condescending manner in which you do it. You guys do know a lot about football, but remember that there are other Cal football fans that know a lot too (and have been fans much longer than you), so their opinions may not be as absurd as you think.
Frankly, there are a lot of myths out there that need to be dispelled. BearInsider, for whatever reason, seems to be the board which produces some of the most mind boggling myths, as well as some of the most ridiculous and poorly thought out statements of all the fan boards. I don’t know why that is, but the level of discourse over there can be embarrassingly low at times, especially for graduates of such a fine University.
How long a person has been a fan tends to have little impact on my analysis. I rarely put out analysis which requires extensive Cal fandom. I put out writing which just requires some basic football knowledge, or analyzes the state of the Cal Football program during the Tedford era. Also, I must disagree with the statement that a lot of fans know a lot about football too. If this was true, I wouldn’t be hearing some of the remarks and suggestions I hear about the team.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know that people like to bag on Bear Insider and I get that, but I have to wonder the insanity that must lurk on some of the other boards. Like what is the Alabama Scout board like? Or Notre Dame? I mean the Florida board prolly had people demanding Urban Meyer be fired that one year he didn’t win the National Championship or something.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Any newspaper articles/blogs (like JO or Wilner) tend to be pretty bad, too…
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For example, it will go "oh the “fans” think this, but they are wrong, and this is why."
I do do this. I understand that it can come across as condescending or patronizing, but that isn’t really my objective. As I’ve explained in other places, I always seem to be in the minority of opinions – for whatever reasons. So I often like to state what the majority opinion is, and how my opinion, the minority opinion, dissents. So in other words, at times I’m certainly not trying to sound condescending or patronizing, but I know it can be interpreted that way.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the fans...
And would you discuss how f***ing horrible our fans were at the OSU game? I was going to write a thousand words on it but f*** it. Summary: they really really sucked. I had to leave section T and go stand with the students near the band to allow myself to stay in the stadium. We have the worst overall fans in the Pac 10 right now. Memorial is the quietest stadium in the Pac 10 right now – and we used to be regarded as one of the toughest placest in the country to play. Please.
Mic man tryouts were a bad joke. That aside, I don’t know why most of those fans showed up at all, to act like that. I’d rather sit in a stadium filled 1/3 of raucous, enthusiastic fans, cheering for a 2-10 team to get a first down or a punt in a bad loss than the tomb that was Memorial on Saturday. I may not renew my season tickets because of this.
I criticize not depress or discourage, but in the hopes of lighting a fire. If all of you would get your sections fired up and get people to cheer, the world would be a better place.
Cal fans unite and take pride in our house!
I criticize anything and everything I want to on this blog. On game day, I show up, I make a lot of noise on Defense, I celebrate everything good that happens, I’m a monster on 3rd down, I stand the whole time, and I stay to the end. It’s not rocket science, it’s called being a fan.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 12:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What I meant about renewing my season tickets was...
I didn’t mean I’m not coming to games anymore.
I have ‘good’ seats in Section T. I can’t afford to pay a gazillion to get into GG and I don’t think it’d be satisfying anyways.
Instead of renewing, at great cost, think I’d have better luck getting scalped tickets each game day (many friends do this with success each week and meet me inside), pay less overall, and maybe I can get into QQ which I can’t legally do any other way. Or maybe just get whatever and go stand with the students. It’s not hard.
I’m getting upset being near quiet fans and fair weather fans, who expect National Championship or bust. Every Pac-10 win is a big deal. If you can’t cheer for Cal vs. OSU at home, when the game is totally winnable, and we’re on D, it’s 3rd down, and the line of scrimmage is within 5 yards of your seat, you just plain suck and I can’t be near you. I don’t want to waste my energy being angry at people wearing blue and gold – I need to find others to cheer with.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cal fans are frontrunners. I’ve said this for years. When we’re leading, we’re great. When we’re down, we turn into Sunday at the Vatican. Once USC and OSU scored those first TDs, good luck trying to generate noise.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 11, 2009 1:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So that's it? Is that OK with you?
You don’t think it’s worth trying to get more noise?
I guess maybe I agree. I seem to be willing to give up on Section T instead of trying to improve it. I guess I’m hypocritical, asking others to fire their sections up, when I don’t want to anymore.
Sad state of affairs. Maybe I should stop posting.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he’s saying it’s ok, but that it’s been that way for awhile. Institutional inertia is difficult to overcome, and already the greatest impact Tedford could have on the fanbase and stadium noise has already happened by substantially increasing attendance.
by sec119 on Nov 11, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mixed feelings on this point
More fans = good, in general. But when enough of them are the strong, silent type, the net effect is ghastly, like Saturday. I personally think it brought the team down to have 50k people sitting and apparently not behind them because they weren’t up 21 points in the 1st quarter.
They would have been better off with less fans present, but the ones who did come being more enthusastic.
I’m glad enough people were motivated to buy tickets and show up, but the result was terrible. How do you get better fans?
I don’t think Tedford should start criticizing the fans (that works about as well as the fans booing the players), but I’ll say this:
I think Tedford has been pretty distant from the fans. Once in a while he has a statement saying he liked the noise, or he thinks our loudness is a big help, and he’s had some boring-as-hell PSAs where he says “come out on Saturday!” that are utterly unconvincing. He is aloof, IMHO.
I think he should use his time on the field to show a little more emotion and connection with the fans – look back up at the students and the band and wave and react to us some so we can rally to his causes.
Do some more down to earth off-field talk and discussion. Does he come to the student bonfire rallies? That would be awesome. Make a personal connection by addressing the student-fans directly and get them fired up. Happens at lots of other schools.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Question
Just a question—is the behavior you cite something you just noticed this year, or is is typical? I ask as a 20+ year season ticket holder with my own opinion on the topic and just wondered what you thought
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give you my data
Attended in person 1989-1995, a couple of games ’01 and ’02, and then 2003-present.
My highly-generalized statement is as the team had success after Tedford got it going, more and more annoying, quiet, fair-weather fans entered the stadium, and it seemed harder and harder to get the people riled up and loud. It’s like inertia/dead weight was added. They brought down the average.
There are some exceptions, sometimes I thought we had a great home crowd (Oregon ‘06, Tennessee ’07), but my feeling is it’s been in decline. And a bunch of home games in the seasons after Aaron Rodgers left have really stuck out at me as examples of lame fan-dom.
During ’89-95 I believe average attendance was a bit lower, though we had some good success on the field. The mic man was mostly this one guy (Ken?) who was pretty damned great, and I was in the student section or QQ and I thought we were pretty loud, and able to use “Hey Alumni, GO” or “Hey Alumni, make some noise” to a fairly reasonable affect.
I felt people were a bit more likely to stay til the end back then compared to recently, and they came in with much lower expectations – we were more often thinking of ourselves as underdogs, and minor successes or moral victories were claimed and frankly, enjoyed more.
And we lost plenty of games, some of them due to horrific special teams gaffes. Also some spectacular special teams scoring! Very exciting. Not a lot to show for it in the trophy room, but it solidified my future as an Old Blue.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve talked a little bit about how Cal fans are a little bit too much like pro fans, especially the new ones…and aren’t totally there for the game, more just because they can afford it. Not as much passion invested in what’s going on in the field. Lots of the passionate fans stay home because it’s too expesnive to attend.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 11, 2009 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Compared to Big 12 or SEC games, Cal games are a bargain.
by sec119 on Nov 11, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For Section T
We have to donate a minimum of $1200 for the 4 seats, plus the ticket cost of $305 per seat. At least we got 6 home games this year.
So that’s an average of $605 per seat, or a little over $100 per game.
Stubhub prices are WAY lower than that, except for rare occasions. And I’ve never tried a scalped ticket, but friends have said things like $20-$60 for good reserved seats, or $15 or even $10 for endzone seating on less popular games.
Do you think Big 12 and SEC pay a lot more than $100 a game?
Outside of being a season ticket holder, I think there are plenty of bargains to be had – but the box office prices are pretty bad.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the ticket prices are an issue, grab endzone seats. I went from the student section to the endzones, and sure the view isn’t as good, but it’s still fine.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 11, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If ticket prices are an issue, mooch the shit off your friends. It’s the TwistNHook way!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The price isn't the main point
The point is I’m pissed off at Section T, and it’s on like the 35 yard line. On the louder side of the stadium. I’ve been in EE/F and it was about the same tepid deal.
So I seek improvement in my seats. Ways to improve my seats: A) closer to the 50 B) better louder fans.
G/GG is the only section that does A. And my impression, from afar, is they are pretty old and quiet up there. Most of them have donated $10k or more per year, so I don’t want to talk too much shit about them, but I don’t think moving to G/GG would actually make me happy, even if I could afford it.
I’m most interested in RR/R/QQ, but they don’t sell RR/R (are those all student reserved?) and QQ is young alumni.
I had QQ in 2003. Pretty good cheering, but being next to the enemy every game wasn’t ideal. Sometimes downright unpleasant.
Of course people in every section sell their damned tickets to enemy fans every week, so I’ve suffered from enemies in my midst in T, F, and EE as well.
So I’m thinking buy scalped reserved and wander my way over to the best-looking crowd in R/QQ, or pretend to be a student and hang with them.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RR/R are student seats. RR is the section where the band is and that tends to fill up with students and a mixture of young alums, especially young band alums right above the band.
R is the section 1 to the South, which tends to fill up mostly with young alums. The students don’t really come that way, because they want to be North of the band where all the action is. So, us old farts can chill there.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
until you have to show a wrist band…..
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats why I go to Bear’s Lair before hand to snag a wrist band just in case!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I thought it was for the fine array of sodas.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, Cal tickets sound like a really complicated process. Now, I haven’t been to a game in a while, but when I used to go, I would just sit wherever I wanted…
I think the most recent time I’ve gone to a home Cal game was either 2004 or 2005, by then it was more full so you generally had to sit where your tickets were, but still, there was definitely some leeway if you really wanted….
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(Oh and it wasn’t expensive and buying scalped tickets was easy, hell, even walking up to the ticket booth to get tickets before the game wasn’t difficult)
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks for the response
Appreciate it
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a fanpost worthy topic!
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 11, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The times when I get to meet Tedford face to face (i.e. FanFest and Coaches Tour), I find him to be much more personable than his public on-field demeanor. I often wonder why he does seem so much more aloof out there.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I agree. It just seems like he’s constantly looking over his shoulder to make sure he doesn’t “get in trouble” in the press. Like he has a morbid fear of becoming one of “those coaches” like Houston Nutt and Lane Kiffin who are constantly in the press for some level one minor scandal or something. Part of this manifests itself as being a total robot to the fans, as though they’re a necessary evil, and the team would just be better off without their distractions. I really don’t like it.
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 11, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Monty is the best coach I’ve seen who balances being honest without saying stuff that would get him bad press. It’s an impressive skill.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 11, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sunday at the Vatican?
“HEY POPE, GO!”
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was sad to see so many fans leave early. I stayed there to the end.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me say something positive
For the 2nd half, after I abandoned my seats, I stood with the students, and I got to be really close to the field, and really close to the band.
The band continues to be awesome (Cal Band Great!), and their enthusiasm was infectious to me. The students were fairly drunk, but remained pretty easy to encourage to be as loud as they could. Despite the mic men, we made some noise that sounded good to me, and it felt good to cheer and I felt like the players could hear me and it counted.
It was really cool to see the players, band, field and cheerleaders up close and it reminded me of how awesome college football is. I just want to be with those folks at every game and GO BEARS!
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hydrotech,
I understand completely where you are coming from in trying to dispel certain myths that pop up at "other" cal football forums and fan sites. And I know you don’t purposefully attempt to come off as condescending, it just sometimes appears that way. And I’m also not trying to dissuade any blogger here from trying to dispel certain myths, because some of your posts are actually quite informative (such as the Ezeff/Conte blunder in the ASU game).
One thing though is that while there are certainly some kooky posts over on the bearinsider board, I don’t think its fair to necessarily paint every bearinsider poster with the same brush. Some posters on that site say some pretty ignorant things, but there are also some very intelligent posters over there. I find that the bearinsider board can be both informative and a great place to debate/argue about Cal football. So the type of bearinsider bashing that goes on in this blog may be unwarranted, and I’m not quite sure where it comes from. Its like you read one poster write on bearinsider that Tedford should get fired and everyone on this blog goes ballistic. I think you’d be surprised that the majority of posters on bearinsider are quite reasonable and that the current consensus on the board is to give Tedford at least another 2-3 years to play with his facilities and then go from there (which I think is the right approach as well).
Second, I also have to disagree, hydrotech, that how long one has been a fan has zero effect on their ability to talk about Cal football. Certainly it doesn’t effect one’s ability to break down film or talk about the X’s and O’s, but I do think that an older Cal fan may have a certain historical perspective on Cal football when compared to a relative newbie Cal fan. For instance, there is a great discussion on the bearinsider board about how much support the football program has received from the administration over the years. It talks about the dark days in the 1960’s and 70’s, Chancellor Tien, Bob Bockrath and his role in dealing with Bruce Snyder, etc. If I remember correctly (and I could be wrong) but most of the bloggers here graduated around the early 2000’s, so you got a taste of the holmoe era, but really, for the majority of your Cal fandom, you’ve only seen success. I think it would be an interesting study (or an interesting fan post) about the different perspectives from different generations of Cal fans. I think one’s opinion about Cal football (ie opinion about Tedford, opinion about the state of Cal football, etc) would be drastically different depending on when you started becoming a fan. Someone who has been waiting patiently for a rose bowl for 50+ years may have a differing opinion than say a current student. That’s just a long way of saying that its nice hearing different opinions from different types of fans, which is why I like reading this blog as well as bearinsider.
Hopefully, there can be some sort of accord reached between this blog and bearinsider. Cause there are certainly a few bearinsider posters who don’t have great things to say about this blog as well. I think it’d be great if more bearinsider posters could spend time here, and you bloggers could spend more time maybe discussing Cal football on the bearinsider site.
by ryandrew on Nov 11, 2009 4:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
…………………there are people who don’t like me.
Does Not Compute.
PS Ryandrew, thanks for your extensive thoughts. I know I was a bit (cough) of a dick previously. I apologize for all that stuff.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, I would definitely be more likely to post on the bearinsider site if it wasn’t for their set up there. It’s very confusing to me. Perhaps it’s due to my unbelievably epic stupidity, but it just seems very clunky and much more difficult to navigate. Also, I’m unbelievably and epically stupid.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The BI forums are much better with the ESPN format than back at Scout. The ESPN boards are pretty much the same as any other internet message board, in terms of functionality.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That may be the case, I don’t dispute it. But, that’s why I feel sBN has the premier functional board, while other boards cannot compete. Perhaps BI is at the same level of industry standard or even better. But SBN so outclasses the competition that it’s almost as if I get paid to write nice things about them or something.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the only SBN blog I really follow, so it threw me off at first. I dig it for what it can do, but overall I prefer vBulletin.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Western College Hockey Blog takes that comment as the insult you, most assuredly, meant it is.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They really need to change their tagline to: Western College Hockey Blog- the punchline of SBN.
All aboard the Jahvid Best rickshaw!
by rollonubears on Nov 12, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are quality posts on BI, but they are few and far between.
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 11, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree with this. There are a lot of quality posts, but they get lost in between the nonsense.
Email: bearsnecessities@gmail.com
by Avinash on Nov 11, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s more that the nuttier posters have free reign to keep pounding non-sensical arguments into the ground, and then people who would ordinarily be reasonable get caught up in the argument and the whole thread is derailed. To navigate the forum, it takes a lot of patience and an willingness to let arguments drop if they’re clearly not going anywhere.
Also, there are definitely more than a few manic-depressive folks on BI. When we’re 3-0, we’ve got the greatest team ever, but as soon as there’s a loss, holy crap, fire somebody! I admit to getting a bit of this feeling after the Oregon game (I honestly believed this team had BCS potential, and that got shattered pretty quick after one game). However, after that I just had to suck it up and realize the team wasn’t as good as I had hoped it would be and re-calibrate expectations. As such, I was able to be happy about the close win over ASU, while most of Bear Insider was totally p***ed off that we didn’t destroy them. Such an attitude (getting angry over a Cal win) puzzled me.
by sycasey on Nov 11, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, CGB threads NEVER get derailed!
Right, twist?
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, we never get derailed into non-sensical arguments, just because our nonsense is rarely in argumentative form. Unless you count “Which dinosaur would dominate on the football field” as an argument.
Which, of course, I do!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, there are quite a number of quality posters/posts on BI. it’s actually tamer than some other large school message boards there.
thanks for your thoughts.
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some posters on that site say some pretty ignorant things, but there are also some very intelligent posters over there.
That right there is the crux of the problem. I don’t want to wade through the stuff that either makes me angry or sad to find the good stuff. The positive doesn’t outweigh the negative for me. Plus, as Twist mentions, the format on BI is so inferior to the SBnation format.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 11, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly not everyone over on BearInsider is as bad as I may make it sound. I did not mean to intend it that way. There are some intelligent posters over there and I wish there were more. I am guilty of BearInsider bashing. I will not deny it. Why do I do it? Because, as I stated in another comment, some of the most ridiculous statements I’ve ever heard in my life come from that board. I’m talking about ridiculous conspiracy theories (“Tedford hates Riley,” “Longshore doesn’t want to win games,” “Gregory likes giving up yardage,”). Insanely ridiculous conspiracy theories, yet people are still willing to believe them over much more plausible and logical actual football explanations as to what’s going on. BearInsider also has the largest amount of lack of self control knee-jerk reactions of “Fire X coach,” “fire everyone,” “cut X player’s scholarship.” I’m fine with some talk about firing coaches, but at least back it up with some substantive analysis, statistics, or preferably actual football analysis to back it up. Yet there is little of that aside from “we lost, our defense sucks, fire gregory.” People over there just seem to want to have somebody’s head on a platter so they can feel better about the loss. It’s almost a selfish attitude; one of “Coach Tedford, fire someone, do something to make me feel better” type of approach. I think too many people over there just cannot suck it up. They can’t handle the truth that we don’t have the talent, and/or sometimes the players just make untimely mistakes. They want somebody’s head, yet somebody’s head isn’t going to change the lack of talent or untimely player mistakes.
I know that a lot of BearInsider people don’t have great things to say about this blog, and I’m fine with that. We all have our own opinions. Unfortunately, I doubt you will see me on the BearInsider board very often. Most BearInsider folk are not open to my ideas. I lost credibility with them in 2007 when I so vehemently defended Longshore. It’s been suggested over there that I’m related to Tedford (nope), that Longshore has pictures of me naked (nope), or that I’m a Bearant or close friend of a player (nope). I have no biases. I do admit, I often defer to the coaching staff and I explained why in the post. That may be my biggest weakness. But I have no interest in attempting to change the dominant majority opinion on BearInsider when so few are receptive to what I have to say. I don’t have the time or the interest. If they want to listen what I have to say, and be open to the idea that the majority fan opinion is wrong, then they can come here and read what I have to say whether it be right or wrong.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, Longshore threw away those naked photos of you, then?
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, I have commented there defending Longshore, but there is a picture of me naked at the last Tedford family reunion when he was recruiting my son to play for the team.
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 11, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What also bothers me about BearInsider, is that they seem so unbelieving of what Tedford says. They think he has no idea what he’s doing. They think he’s wrong and they know more than him. Let me share a story I heard (I have no idea if it’s true but this is what I heard from BearInsider posters and believe it to be true).
During the 2007 fall, some rich donors met with Tedford to discuss the state of the program and what was going on. These donors had it in their mind that Longshore was at fault for all the losses and that he needed to be benched immediately. During the meeting with Tedford, Tedford showed them film breaking down how things there were many problems on offense from bad OL blocking to WRs running wrong routes (mis-reading coverages) or running bad routes. This apparently made the donors furious that Tedford would even suggest that there were other problems on offense than Longshore. Many BearInsider posters shared this same sentiment as the donors. They were furious that the head coach was an apparent idiot and wasn’t seeing the problems with the team. I mean, here you had one of the greatest offensive minds in college football breaking down film to people, yet these people refused to believe what Tedford had to say. It’s mind boggling.
People will believe what they want to believe no matter whether they’re right or wrong. The same can be said of me. We all tend to see things in a manner which bolsters our beliefs and arguments. But when one of football’s definitive offensive minds says something, yet people don’t believe the coach??? That’s just utterly shocking and ridiculous. You’d think that would make people re-think their opinion and analyze why they might be wrong. But nope. BearInsider people just laid it on Longshore even harder and Tedford was an idiot.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
one of the greatest offensive minds in college football
one of football’s definitive offensive minds
Don’t get me wrong, I love Tedford as a coach. And I agree with your point—if he personally sat me down, I’d listen and take his word. But this seems a little over the top given the struggles of the last few years.
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be completely honest, I think Tedford was at his best when he was just an OC, calling the plays and coordinating the Xs and Os. He’s a dedicated football guy.
I personally love his pro-style schemes, and you can see how devastating they can be with the right personnel. Problem is, college teams are just that - filled with college players- and not filled with pros paid to execute and practice without the distractions of college. I mean, just look at how effective spread-options have been in college football.
Anyway, what we’ve considered ‘struggling’ the last few years has been far from the struggles of a Wazzu or UCLA, but your point is fair that given results.
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m leaning T-bred’s way here. I’m pretty up on Tedford, but to back up your praise, he needs more success on the field. I think he has lots of potential, but he hasn’t met his potential every year here at Cal.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he needs more success on the field
I’m not sure what you want from him, in this case. Since he took over Cal we’ve been the third best program in the Pac-10. I understand the desire to be like USC and dominate the Pac-10, but realistically you’re much more likely to be one of the 9 other schools. Tedford has been very successful at Cal, and I’m just not sure how you can see it any other way.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could be unrealistic in your expectations? Have you ever considered that? You haven’t, have you?
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let me be clear
I think Tedford has been very successful at Cal.
But to call him
one of the greatest offensive minds in college football
one of football’s definitive offensive minds
Seems a bit like bragging when these are the records:
2009 – 10-3 (best possible) to 6-7 (or 6-6 with no bowl invite at worst)
2008 – 9-4
2007 – 7-6
2006 – 10-3
2005 – 8-4
2004 – 10-2 (only 11 regular season games)
2003 – 8-6 (we had 5 non-conf games + a bowl game that year!)
2002 – 7-5 (deserved a bowl but ineligible)
You ask what I’d like from him…well for me to call him one of the greatest offensive minds, it would include more 2-loss (or better) seasons. And frankly, ’07, ’08 and ’09 have not been of such quality I would call him that.
I’d call him a very good coach who has had a lot of success, and some eyebrow raising letdowns that call into question the god-like status some want to confer upon him.
I’m behind Tedford, but I think we sound foolish telling other schools how incredibly great he is with our W-L records. We have to earn those bragging rights. Let’s go do that. Let’s beat Arizona, which is threatening to have a great season.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 12, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How many other coaches in I-A have had 2-loss or better seasons in the last 5 years?
It’s a fairly large number. A lot of coaches who I don’t think are necessarily better than Tedford, but they’ve put up some good numbers. Figured out how to win a lot of games with the hand they were dealt. They get some bragging rights for that.
Now personally I think the Pac-10 is always the #1 or #2 toughest conference, so 2-losses is hard work.
But there’s an additional list of coaches who have achieved 1-loss seasons over the last 5 years, and if you want put Tedford among them, I want to see the scoreboards to back it up.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 12, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it seems we’re kind of touching on different points, I guess. For calling him one of the greatest offensive minds in college football…I dunno, maybe, maybe not, but I don’t think his role as a head coach is really very related to that at all. I think the OC is more responsible for that kind of thing, so it’s just a seperate issue (in my opinion) to his head coaching. I guess I was just responding to “he needs more success on the field”, but looking back at your statement, you did say to back up the praise….so, fair enough.
It seems to me some Cal fans (not necessarily you) don’t even want to acknolwedge the success Tedford has had as coach.
by Missing Barry on Nov 12, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That wouldn't be me.
I’m splitting hairs. ’cause I get off on it. :-)
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 12, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the problem, one might even argue, is that on the back of that magical 2004 season, every year since then has been a “let down.” In many minds, Tedford was supposed to be a cinderella story, an offensive genius magically taking a backwards bumpkin program to the Rose Bowl in the span of one recruiting class. Problem was he ran straight into Leinart, Bush and co.
When the dust settled, turns out he isn’t some kind of mythical wizard, just a good coach at a program that was just a bit too stringent academically to recruit the players it needed, not academically superior enough to offer the best div 1-A education (that Hairball can sell), with the shittiest facilities in the Pac 10, and an angry, impatient donor base about to die. Result? Good, not great players, and winning records, but not Rose Bowls.
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 11, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s all remember the fact that Tedford basically has brought Cal to the Rose Bowl once (until Mack Brown whning/being a bitch got in the way)…
by Missing Barry on Nov 12, 2009 7:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, twice if it wasnt for DeSean’s big toe!
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 12, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we not do this?
The Lack of Mack's Imposition Attacks My Disposition.
by Spazzy Mcgee on Nov 12, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For what it’s worth, Tedford seems to have the respect of his peers in the coaching community (Urban Meyer is a good example), which I don’t think he would get if he weren’t schematically as good as advertised.
"Let me tell you a story. I was a political prisoner for two years. The instant I was released I ran to McDonald's. I had a Big Mac and a Coke.
It was fantastic."
-Toyama Koichi, US Presidential candidate from Japan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGZqOkeYbB0
by AERose on Nov 11, 2009 6:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I'd add...
It’s shocking and ridiculous that he had to sit down and explain himself to begin with. Must have been high donors. What an eye-opening story…I hadn’t heard this before.
by Trilogy44 on Nov 11, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, I don’t know if it’s true, but that’s what I heard from BearInsider people.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Nov 11, 2009 5:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is true.
When there are people who donate very generous sums of money, they want returns on their investments and absolutely will not listen to anything they don’t want to hear.
by Cali49a on Nov 11, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and if you think about it, if you’re dropping 7 figures on Cal Athletics, you’re basically a part owner. I have no problem with that getting people some access. I’m gonna put on a Barclay Simpson name tag one day and see if that gets me in the Hall of Fame room haha
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this to a point, but it seems to me through all I’ve read about college football (not just talking about Cal donors, talking about donors at every school) a lot of these people need to realize the limits of their knowledge and there are often times where it’s appropriate to defer to more knowledgeable people – in this case, it would be Tedford (who obviously knows football very, very well) breaking down film…but this kind of thing seems to happen at a lot more places than just Cal. Demanding accountability is one thing, getting overly involved when you don’t actually know what you’re doing is another.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right, they need to recognize they aren’t decision makers, but I’m totally cool with them getting some special access.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, that makes sense. If they’re donating that much money, you gotta make them feel special and make them feel it’s worthwhile somehow.
by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I need to figure out a way to feel that special without donating that much moeny.
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
charm and personality, time to give up the dream.
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One of these days I’m going to save up a whole shit load of money and donate it in two parts to Cal. One part to the CS department and one part to the football team. And then I’ll call such a meeting with Tedford and other donors. I’ll listen to Tedford. And then I’ll tell the other donors to shut the fuck up and if they leave, I’ll cover their donation with my money.
Ah what a dream
In other words, Go Bears!
by royrules22 on Nov 12, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, I wish I could go to one of these meetings. That shit’d be so epic(k).
President Emperor Warlord Of The Sun!
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Nov 11, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Firing coaches
While there are times when discussions on firing coaches are both warranted and perhaps even necessary, it always creeps me out the way people so casually talk about firing people. Even when Ben Braun was let go, something I understood and agreed with, it wasn’t a happy thing. So when people fly off the handle and propose firing people in an angry screed, even if I agree, I’m bothered.
I wouldn’t be sad if Alamar was let go. There’s an argument to be made to fire Marshall. I can understand being frustrated with Gregory. But I’ll never be comfortable with it. And it will always bother me that many people don’t care.
The #1 greatest threat to America: BEARS
by norcalnick on Nov 11, 2009 4:39 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Rec'd. I never take that stuff lightly
It’s far too easy to think that firing would help. Who do you get to replace the coach? How does the transition go? Total unknowns in most cases. Once in a while it becomes clear there is a great and better coach available, waiting in the wings, who for some reason is a great fit for your program. This is very rare.
The coaching has to get really bad before an instant firing and crapshoot into the available pool should be considered a strategy. Our coaches are definitely not at that point.
But they have made mistakes, they’re not perfect, and they are subject to scrutiny and criticism. Alamar continues to move farther from a happy place. The O line coach is not off to an impressive start. But I for one am not at ’let’s fire them’. Yet.
Stand the whole game, stay to the end, and start yelling while they're still in the huddle. GO BEARS
by JerrottWillard45 on Nov 11, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for all the posts in this thread. Great contribution
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The frustrations are very understandable right now. A lot of why coaches take the heat is that they are one person, instead of the 11 players on the field at any one time. It’s much easier to point the finger at that one person.
I’m also of the opinion that there should be serious looks at other options for Special Teams and Defense during the offseason (more on the ST but that’s not the point). However, different isn’t necessarily better so don’t go off and make a change for the sake of change, make sure it’s going to be an improvement. But then again, could Special Teams get much worse?
by turkey on Nov 11, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just a small point I’d like to make:
I’ve only been able to glimpse through a few comments here, and I don’t mean to put words into anyone’s mouth. But I’d like to add that one thing:
I’ve read HydroTech’s posts quite a bit and seen his discussions of football, and I can genuinely say just by reading his stuff for so long that he is sincere, nice guy and does this for a love of football and Cal and never has any intention of putting people down. I’m in no way saying anyone has accused him of this, but I’d just like that to be known. He does great work, and I feel his thoughts on all matters Cal are incredibly informative for the Cal fanbase.
All that said: GO BEARS!
STAY THIRSTY, MY FRIENDS
by Thoroughbred on Nov 11, 2009 5:42 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Very often when you point out that someone has made a stupid comment, the person who made the stupid comment thinks you are being condescending. There’s not necessarily anything condescending about being right.
“The Sun revolves around the Earth!”
“No, it doesn’t, you moron.”
“Why are you being so condescending?!”
by sycasey on Nov 11, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

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