BCS vs. Playoffs Debate
Not much introduction needed here. With Utah's destruction of 'Bama in the Sugar Bowl, this issue is at hand. Let's get to the nitty-gritty.
Current system--BCS #1 vs #2 for the national championship
Pros: Gives you a clearcut title game with the teams that pollsters and computers generally agree are the top two teams in the nation. Sometimes provides a compelling matchup like this season.
Cons: If there are a bunch of teams with the same record, how would you figure out who the best team was? 45-35? Didn't Auburn go 13-0? Nebraska lost their Big 12 title; why are they playing Miami for all the marbles? How is USC's loss to Oregon State worse than Oklahoma's or Florida's losses? How does Ohio State keep getting back in here (and in the BCS)?
And the questions go on, and on...
Who likes this system: Jim Tressel, Rose Bowl fanboys, Hydrotech (who I'm sure will argue his case willingly), General Grievous, Amitab Bachchan
Old system--whoever's ranked #1 by the pollsters/computers at the end of the bowl season gets the #1 seed.
Pros: Restores the traditional tie-ins. Big 12 champ goes to Cotton, SEC goes to Sugar, Pac-10/Big 10 in the Rose again. Creates classic clashes and revives local hatred, provides continuity to past rivalries and keeps the sports entirely regional.
Cons: The computers decide the national champion. That won't cause any conflict at all. Plus the midmajors get excluded. No one will object to this except everyone but carp.
(Of course you could argue for a +1 adaptation, where the top two teams after the bowls gets to go to a MNC, but that'd cause just as much problems, no?)
Who likes this system: Tom Hansen, Wilford Brimley, Ayn Rand, whales, British character actors.
+1 system--a four team playoff, where #1 goes against #4 in some BCS bowl and #2 goes against #3 in some BCS bowl and meet for the title game x weeks later. The additional bowls could be kept for the regular conference champs who don't get in.
Pros: Would end much of the painful lobbying that seems to follow the last two weeks of the season, since most of the grousers would get their chance (i.e. Texas and USC this year, Georgia and USC last year, Michigan the year before, Auburn two years before that, etc.). Would allow for two more compelling matchups of the top 4 teams and would definitely generate high ratings.
Also, the Big 10 commish hates it, so it must be good.
Cons: Great for the teams, but will the fans travel around to TWO sites in two weeks? Even if it was at one site how would they stay occupied for the time they were there? The only other option seems to be that #1 and #2 get a home game and they play it a week after the conclusion of the reg, but you'd have to think that's comically unfair to #3 and #4. Plus some big conferences would protest not being included (hint hint ACC/Big East) because their teams always blow.
Other issues; midmajors would still be excluded from this formula under most circumstances since their SOS barely cracks the Top 12. They would still be left out of the mix even if they ran the table, barring dramatic circumstances. The Utahs and Boise States of the world would be out of the party and calling for their own piece of the pie.
Who likes this system: Pete Carroll, Mack Brown, Bob Stoops--essentially, everyone who's won a BCS title already.
6-8 team tournament--Top teams from each conference compete against each other (plus two at-largers), probably first round would give the higher ranked team home field; maybe an option for top 2 teams to get a first round bye. Basically a +2 format.
Pros: Would allow every conference to get a representative, no one would feel excluded, so every conference would have its strength gauged against every other conference in that certain year;
Cons: OH NO KIDS GOTTA TAKE FINALS OH NO THEY'LL NEVER FIND A WAY TO TAKE THEM OH NO WHAT DO WE DO????
Well, more importantly, the more games you add on, the less likely fans will travel along; and because it's a college event, it's not likely to attract the huge sponsors and $10,000 boosters that will put their fannies in the seats like the Super Bowl does. In other words, the National Championship could take place in a half-empty stadium.
Who likes this system: Italian Spiderman, Cesar Milan, Mark Wahlberg, postmodernists, and the Geico Gecko.
Crazy ideas: Anything above 8 teams in a tournament. The Pirate suggested that the team with the best academic GPA should win tiebreakers (something that'd favor Texas Tech in the Big 12), which would be great because a Harvard-Yale title game would enthrall everyone at MENSA. Phil Steele wants a 64 team playoff, which I'm sure will be approved by the year 2509. The college football season would probably end around February 28.
My personal preference is to have a playoff system implemented overseas in Europe. BCS winners get a free study abroad program in Europe in the springtime, and they could play football games every week with random soccer stadiums. They could fill the stadium with rabid English soccer hooligans and studying abroad college students. Whenever they throw an incompletion fans could start throwing flares on the field, and then Rey Maulauga would run into the stands and start breaking them with his bare hands.
Pete Carroll would totally set up a pad in Amsterdam and start wearing a beret, Tim Tebow and the Pope could have a 'philosophical' discussion about Jesus, and ABC could dedicate plenty of reality show time to it to encourage Americans to travel overseas. I believe Barack Obama should approve this plan immediately. Me and carp would be all over that.
Who likes crazy ideas: Phil Steele, Mike Leach, Stephen Colbert, the cast of Monty Python, and Charles Bronson.
If you have alternatives, provide your proposals. And vote--which system do you like best?
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are, in every way, reflective of the opinions of every California Golden Blogs Marshawnthusiast. Moreover, they are reflective of every employee of SBNation, including Tyler "Blez" Bleszinski.
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A playoff works in the lower divisions of college ball
so obviously it can work at the this level. The problem has always been about money… the current system works best for schools in terms of making that dough… so no we won’t have a playoff any time soon.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
by Hey Bowles Hall! on
Jan 2, 2009 10:52 PM PST
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You are probably right
That being said, are you in favor of a +1 or a bigger tourney?
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 2, 2009 10:59 PM PST
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I personally would like to see...
an 8 team playoff. The 4 BCS bowls get played out… the winner of those 4 play each other… and then finally the last 2 teams play each other. Team that don’t make the playoffs get to play in the regular bowl schedule.
That being said no matter what kind of system we do there will always be detractors and complainers, but I’m one for improving the system… and doing even a plus 1 would be a hugh improvement over what we have now.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
by Hey Bowles Hall! on
Jan 3, 2009 1:18 AM PST
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the ncaa will never go for a tourney that doesn't include
the winner of all 11 FBS conferences.
so a 16 team tourney (like every other division) is the only real way forward.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on
Jan 3, 2009 9:10 PM PST
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How do we know that?
I hear people say that from time to time. Has the NCAA released some sort of statement about the issue? Or is it just assumed?
by norcalnick on
Jan 3, 2009 11:45 PM PST
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There is a bigger argument for this
Fans and media people shouldn’t have any influence on who wins the national championship, yet every year we have to construct arguments as to who the better team is based on strength of schedule, quality of opponent, tiebreakers, who beats who beats who, etc.
And most of these ‘arguments’ are asinine. They don’t really prove anything. Champions should be proven on the field, which is why the NFL playoffs provide a superior product to the BCS.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 2, 2009 11:31 PM PST
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I love the asinine arguments...
as Hey Bowles Hall will attest. It’s part of the culture and tradition of college football. If you can’t argue as to why your team is number one, then you’re not really a fan.
by classof87 on
Jan 3, 2009 9:33 AM PST
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So it’s about the fans and not the players and coaches?
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 10:21 AM PST
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Without fans, the players and coaches wouldn’t really exist…
Sheriff of the Welcome Team
In Spite of Twist!
by Spazzy Mcgee on
Jan 3, 2009 12:00 PM PST
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The fans would boycott a playoff?
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 12:01 PM PST
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I just mean to say that without fan dollars, the game would cease to exist in the form that we know it.
Sheriff of the Welcome Team
In Spite of Twist!
by Spazzy Mcgee on
Jan 3, 2009 4:44 PM PST
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When you ask for my opinion
it’s about the fans….until I become a D1 coach. I’ll bet there are players and coaches who love the asinine arguments as well.
by classof87 on
Jan 3, 2009 12:21 PM PST
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A Caveat
I think the NFL playoffs are a superior product to the college postseason, though their regular season doesn’t even compare to college football’s.
However, the NFL playoffs only determine the Super Bowl champion. That should be distinguished from the “best team.” The 18-1 Patriots team, as much as I despised them and rooted against them in the Super Bowl, was a better team than a 14-6 Giants team. That isn’t just a hypothetical resume comparison. The Pats beat the Giants in the last game of the regular season.
Secondly, a college football playoff is not a reasonable proposition, however much we might enjoy it, until the number of eligible D-1A teams is reduced. The college football schedules are just too incomparable. NFL playoffs work because there are only 32 teams in the NFL, NFL teams play every team in their division twice, and their remaining 10 games are against (usually) equally talented competition.
by Nashville on
Jan 3, 2009 11:08 AM PST
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If the Patriots were the better team than the Giants, they would’ve beaten them in the Super Bowl. The beauty of college football is the regular season upsets, the beauty of the NFL is playoff upsets on big stages.
The Patriots beat the Giants in a regular season contest that was meaningless to both teams (okay, you can argue it meant something to the Pats, but it only meant enough to the Giants to take a shot at the Pats).
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 11:16 AM PST
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That’s exactly my point. Playoff upsets crown Super Bowl champions, not “Best Team in the NFL” champions. How can a 3-4 game sample size be more valid than a 16 game one?
First, the Giants didn’t wipe the floor with the Patriots, they had to have a nobody receiver catch a ball on his helmet to even stay in the game. Second, the Patriots were quite clearly over the course of the season the better team. They just didn’t win the Super Bowl. I think that’s why the NFL playoffs, March Madness, and the College regular season are so superior. Because in each case you really only get one shot at the ring and if you screw up, well, congratulations on making it this far and life’s not fair.
by Nashville on
Jan 3, 2009 11:50 AM PST
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If the Patriots were the better team than the Giants, they would’ve beaten them in the Super Bowl.
Uh, not sure about that. I’m pretty sure that inferior teams beat superior teams all the time. Just because Team A beats Team B does not necessarily mean that one is better than the other.
So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!
by ragnarok on
Jan 3, 2009 12:52 PM PST
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A Caveat
I think the NFL playoffs are a superior product to the college postseason, though their regular season doesn’t even compare to college football’s.
However, the NFL playoffs only determine the Super Bowl champion. That should be distinguished from the “best team.” The 18-1 Patriots team, as much as I despised them and rooted against them in the Super Bowl, was a better team than a 14-6 Giants team. That isn’t just a hypothetical resume comparison. The Pats beat the Giants in the last game of the regular season.
Secondly, a college football playoff is not a reasonable proposition, however much we might enjoy it, until the number of eligible D-1A teams is reduced. The college football schedules are just too incomparable. NFL playoffs work because there are only 32 teams in the NFL, NFL teams play every team in their division twice, and their remaining 10 games are against (usually) equally talented competition.
by Nashville on
Jan 3, 2009 11:08 AM PST
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Funny breakdown - I must have missed Steven Colbert weigh in on the issue.
This year is interesting:
USC 11-1, Loss to Oregon St.
Penn St 11-1, Loss to Iowa
Alabama 11-1, Loss to Florida
Florida 11-1, Loss to Mississippi
Texas 11-1, Loss to Texas Tech
Oklahoma 11-1, Loss to Texas
Utah 12-0
1 team with no losses in a ‘non BCS’ conference and 6 other teams with loss to a team finishing in the top third of their conference.
If you think that voters, computers, public opinion or any other crazy method can distinguish between these teams, you’re fooling yourself.
Let’s assume ofr shiggles that Texas convincingly beats Ohio State. Then you have:
12-1 Texas
12-1 USC
13-0 Utah
12-1 winner of Mythical National Championship
Good luck picking the ‘best’ after all that.
I don’t really care if you pick a 4 team, 6 team, or 8 team playoff – It sure as hell beats the current system. Sure, there will be issues and perceived injustices (I’ll save that discussion for later). But it can’t be more wrong than undefeated teams given no chance to prove they’re the best (Boise, Auburn, Utah, etc.)
by norcalnick on
Jan 2, 2009 11:43 PM PST
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There are plenty of nightmare scenarios
Some of which will go away if Texas loses, but if Texas wins handily and Oklahoma wins handily, you have the possibility of
- Oklahoma
- Texas
That would be a BCS nightmare.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 12:11 AM PST
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You know, as nightmares go, with mine usually involving concentration camps and dragons and wading through ever-thickening mud and being chased by oompa-loompas with syphilis, 1. Oklahoma and 2. Texas isn’t really that bad.
Sheriff of the Welcome Team
In Spite of Twist!
by Spazzy Mcgee on
Jan 3, 2009 1:08 AM PST
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I’ve never played WoW in my life, and I’m proud of that.
Sheriff of the Welcome Team
In Spite of Twist!
by Spazzy Mcgee on
Jan 3, 2009 12:01 PM PST
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I am not entirely against adding a small (4 team or even 2 teams) playoff after the bowls, but I am against abolishing the bowls and replacing them with a playoff system.
Avinash from Bears Necessity is correct in stating that I do like the current system. I like the current system because it makes every game count. Even losing just one game can severely damage one’s chances at making the NCG. With a large playoff system (32 or 64 team), a team can lose 3-4 games throughout the year and still make the playoffs. The mentality of “win every game” now becomes “win most of our games.” With the prior mentality, the competition is fiercer. With the former, it is weaker. Another reason why I like the current format is that games across the country also have a huge affect on your team’s games. Everything becomes interconnected. What was a meaningless ACC conference game is now a critical game which can determine your team’s rankings in the BCS rankings or your team’s SOS.
I will admit the current system may not be fair. But I like it because it makes the regular season incredibly exciting every single week. I want excitement. I don’t want teams lollygagging to the finish line because they’ve already secured a spot in the playoffs such as what happens in the NFL. Teams should be fighting every single week for that chance to play in the NCG. That does not happen with a playoff system in lieu of the BCS.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on
Jan 3, 2009 1:08 AM PST
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Disagree
Hydro, you are arguing an extreme. No one is seriously arguing for a 32 team December madness poll with each team playing another 5 games to get to the ultimate level. Division I-AA, Division II and Division III don’t even go past 16-20 teams and 4 rounds, and their seasons start much earlier. While I don’t mind more games, we’ll just say that what these small schools do is impractical at large public/private institutions.
Also the NFL-NCAA analogy is faulty. There are 32 teams in the NFL and 120 in Division I. There are 12 playoff spots in the NFL and 10 BCS spots. Increasing the pool to the extreme cases of 16 or 32 would still leave the top college football teams at a disproportionate disadvantage to the leeway bad NFL teams can get from clinching early, so every game would still very much count.
A +1, maybe even an 8 team playoff would retain much of the urgency of the regular season; yes USC or Oklahoma could probably afford a hiccup and still very much be alive, but you’d still have to win your conference or at the very least be in contention at the end. In fact you could argue the better teams would be under more pressure to win their final games to preserve their playoff spots.
Just look at the boredom with which USC fans greeted their latest Rose Bowl berth and conquest. Take a look at the hideous BCS bowl matchups we’ve been treated with the past few seasons. And take a look at the clusterfuck that is approaching with Utah, USC, and perhaps Texas all laying claim to a piece of the national championship. Doesn’t sound like much excitement to me. Just discontent.
Note: I don’t know how much SOS counts in the BCS rankings.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 1:25 AM PST
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Disagree
Hardly extremes. I’ve heard people clamoring for a 64 team playoff which is beyond ridiculous. 32 is ridiculous. Even 16 is too many. If you kept the bowl system, it could be as low as 4 teams although 8 could be a decent compromise.
By having a playoff, plain and simple, every game would not count as much. Sure it counts… but “sort of counts.”
As I said, I’m not entirely against a +1 but it can’t be any bigger than 8 teams. I’d prefer even 4 teams. Yes, I do agree that a plus one would retain the “urgency of the regular season” (we’re assuming we’re keeping the bowl system and not replacing it).
Finally, I couldn’t care less about USC fans’ boredom. Whatever. That doesn’t mean we should change things for them. They are an extreme. They are a one in a million dominant team. No need to make a huge special change just for them. If they’re bored with going to Pasadena then perhaps they should (i) win all their games (WHAT A NOVEL IDEA!); (ii) purposely lose games to go somewhere else; (iii) or just not go to the bowl game and go somewhere else. Even in general, I wouldn’t say a fan base’s boredom is a good reason to change things. Fan bases are finicky.
As for the “hideous” bowl matchups, yes the BCS is partly to blame, but even more to blame are the teams. Blowouts happen. The BCS doesn’t guarantee blowouts. Nothing is guaranteed. The losing team is more responsible for the blowout in most cases than the BCS.
Anyways, I’m done arguing with BCS vs. Playoffs. It doesn’t accomplish anything. I don’t have any say in the issue. We fans don’t. If you’ll excuse me, I’m going to bow out of this argument because I’m tired of arguing in general – mostly due to the past two seasons of Longshore vs. Riley.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on
Jan 3, 2009 2:06 AM PST
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Dude, you’re creating a straw man. Who exactly has clamored for a 32-64 team playoff? Most playoff proponents have argued for a +1 or maybe 8 teams.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 8:38 AM PST
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Avi, just because you haven’t clamored for a 32 or 64 team playoff, doesn’t mean others have. Are we done?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on
Jan 4, 2009 1:12 AM PST
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you can have a "wine every game" mentality with a playoff system.
The two are not mutually exclusive.
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
by Hey Bowles Hall! on
Jan 3, 2009 1:20 AM PST
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oops, I meant win every game
wine at every game is not a bad idea though…
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory...
by Hey Bowles Hall! on
Jan 3, 2009 1:20 AM PST
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hey I made the fanpost!
not sure what I’m objecting too…but I object!
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are not necessarily those of the California Golden Blogs or any of its authors. However, they are just as important as the opinions of any of the authors. And doubly so as compared to TwistNHook!
by carp on
Jan 3, 2009 8:45 AM PST
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I like the study abroad thing
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are not necessarily those of the California Golden Blogs or any of its authors. However, they are just as important as the opinions of any of the authors. And doubly so as compared to TwistNHook!
by carp on
Jan 3, 2009 8:48 AM PST
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Utah vs Alabama in Sarajevo. Mormons trying to convert Muslims. It could spark this.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 10:04 AM PST
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plus sarajevo girls are hot
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are not necessarily those of the California Golden Blogs or any of its authors. However, they are just as important as the opinions of any of the authors. And doubly so as compared to TwistNHook!
by carp on
Jan 3, 2009 2:09 PM PST
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My two cents
1. A plus-one system will not fix things. In some years, there are two obvious candidates for the national championship, and a plus-one would work fine. But in other years, there’s a more obvious top one, or top three, or top something else after the bowl season. As NorCalNick points out above, this year’s post-bowl rankings appears to be headed toward a rather muddled top four. The only reasonable solution, in my eyes, is a playoff that includes anywhere from 6-12 teams.
2. It’s a myth that a playoff would destroy the bowls; they could easily co-exist. First, for an old-timer like myself, the bowls have already been destroyed by the BCS. New Year’s Day used to be a wonderful feast of big games pitting, in very straightforward, traditional fashion, the champions of the major conferences against each other. Win the Pac-10 or Big-10, and go to Pasadena. Win the SEC, and go to New Orleans. Win the Big 8, and go to Miami. Win the “Southwest” (i.e., Texas) Conference, and go to Dallas. No politicking. No worries about human polls and computer rankings. Just win your conference and go to your designated bowl. It wasn’t a perfect system, but it was better than the mess we have now.
Secondly (still under big point #2), a 3- or even 4-round playoff could be easily scheduled around the bowl season. If you begin the first weekend of December—when the conference championship games are now played—you could complete all but the championship game before Christmas. Then, just as is the case now, the two finalists play their championship the first week of January, and everyone else is available for their usual bowl games. Would that take some of the glitz off the bowls, turning them into mere consolation prizes for the tournament losers? Yes, but isn’t that what they are now? (e.g., Alabama in the Sugar Bowl, USC and Penn State in the Rose Bowl, Texas in the Fiesta Bowl)
What is important here is that the playoff games be played in seeded teams’ home stadiums. Not only would this be practical, but it reward better teams with home-field advantage, and it would preserve the special-ness of the bowl games as vacation trips. Only the National Championship game, itself, would be played at a neutral site.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on
Jan 3, 2009 11:01 AM PST
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Rec'd; very well thought out
This would probably increase the size of the season for some teams (15-17 games), but I don’t think there’d be a huge conflict with such an issue, especially if the homefield idea is implemented.
There is an issue with homefield though, which based on the climate could give cold weather teams who run the table a huge advantage over warm weather teams. Ohio State would have hosted a lot of their games in the muck of the December Horseshoe the past two seasons. There’s a reason the Big 10 ends their season two weeks early; they’re just unbearable conditions for football teams to play in outdoors. I don’t know how happy the SEC and Big 12 and USC would feel about such a proposition since they all have tougher conference schedules than the Big 10.
Would you eliminate conference championships for bigger conferences like Big 12/SEC/ACC since it gives them an advantage over smaller big conferences?
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 11:37 AM PST
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Yes, northern teams could have a big weather advantage. On the flip side, it certainly doesn’t hurt the Pac 10 or SEC, now, by having so many of their bowl games in their back yard.
The conference championship games definitely present a challenge. I guess I envision keeping the current system, but just re-scheduling all those games to Thanksgiving weekend. Whether that’s practical from a political/financial point of view is, of course, a whole ’nother question. Same could be said for the entire plan, perhaps, as Nashville discusses below. There is obviously A LOT of vested interest in the current system.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on
Jan 3, 2009 12:05 PM PST
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Sorry friend
Even given the fact that I agree with pretty much everything you say in point #2, this system wouldn’t work for two reasons.
1. There is no way that you could guarantee the financial windfall that accrues to BCS conferences and teams from the current BCS system. Who would guarantee a $17 million payout per team for a Round of 16 or Quarterfinal game? Sure the championship game might offer a significantly larger payout, but if your conference places two or three teams and they’re all out in the first and second rounds, suddenly your football program can’t support the rest of the athletic department as is frequently the case, including, I believe, at Cal.
2. The NCAA does not own the bowls and does not even acknowledge the postseason, choosing to view it as an exhibition instead. To support a three or four round playoff you would need an organizing committee that owned the rights to play in the stadiums, had television contract negotiated, sponsorship, etc because the NCAA does not have that for football. This is not to mention that the early round playoff games would probably be more sparsely attended than even the ACC championship game. The quick fix to that problem is to allow the higher seeds literal home games – ah the magic of a December vacation trip to State College, PA – but then the hosting school has to negotiate a television contract, sponsorship, etc. and has to do it in the week leading up to the game.
by Nashville on
Jan 3, 2009 11:38 AM PST
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I think we largely agree. A multi-round playoff only works if played in teams’ home stadiums. The politics and economics of neutral-field sites is certainly beyond my imagination.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on
Jan 3, 2009 12:08 PM PST
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Am I crazy for preferring the old, pre-BCS way of doing things? I like the traditional matchups for the big bowls. I like the mid and low level bowls that give a team like Cal something real to play for once the Rose Bowl is out of reach. I like random teams slugging it out in some random bowl in late December. I hear the ESPN blathering heads go on and on about how there are too many bowls, but tell me Alex Mack wasn’t pumped to win the Emerald Bowl, a game I’m sure those talking heads consider superfluous. It wasn’t superfluous to Mack and the hundreds of players like him on teams other than Texas, Oklahoma, Florida, and USC.
Having a split national champion and/or controversy about who is #1 isn’t a crime against the universe like some of the pundits would like to think. A 8 or 16 team playoff system just seems cold and boring to me, not to mention that it would severely diminish the importance of the regular season. Name me another sport that has a regular season like CFB. College basketball? The tourney is fantastic but the regular season doesn’t compare. NFL? Sure, there are some great late season matchups when a playoff spot is on the line, but for the most part regular season NFL games can’t match the intensity of a big time CFB matchup. The NBA and NHL regular seasons are a joke.
I don’t know what the solution is, and I’m fully aware that my beliefs are due to the fact that Cal isn’t really a player in the national championship picture yet. Perhaps my views would be different if we were consistently in the top 10.
The Bear Will Not Quit
The Bear Will Not Die
by joshiemac on
Jan 3, 2009 11:07 AM PST
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I'm with you
Embrace the uncertainty. Why do we need to prove who’s better? Plus it gives us something to talk about from January thru August.
by classof87 on
Jan 3, 2009 12:17 PM PST
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I don't understand this argument
8 to 16 teams would not diminish the value of the regular season; you’d likely either have to win your conference (which you already have to do with the BCS), or finish with a runner up slot and jockey for positioning for homefield advantage (which is huge in college football).
Honestly these games would generate more discussion and fascination rather than the BCS system or the old bowl system, which would never allow for the SEC and the Pac-10 to face off.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 12:27 PM PST
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I’m with you. Embrace the conference… ya know, the place where all the teams play each other and where an actual champion can be determined entirely on the field of play. The bowl games are exhibitions, nothing more, and having a bunch of rival conference champions duke it out makes for great sport. Even the current half-assed setup of assigning a single game as THE championship game diminishes the value of all of the rest of the product when contrasted with multiple (conference) champions slugging it out for super-regional bragging rights.
by zoonews on
Jan 5, 2009 12:06 PM PST
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My Playoff Proposal
I think that the best solution would be a ten-team playoff, with 6 bids for a conference championship and 4 wild-card at-large berths. The Conference Champions of the SEC, Pac-Ten, Big East, ACC, Big 12, and Big 10 would all get a bid. The 4 other bids can but don’t necessarily have to be from non-BCS conferences. Using this year’s rankings as an example, the 10 seeds would go as follows:
1) Florida, 2) Oklahoma, 3) USC, 4) Penn State, 5) Cincinnati, 6) Virginia Tech, 7) Texas, 8) Utah, 9) Texas Tech, 10) Boise State.
The wild-card games (#7 Vs. #10 and #8 Vs. #9) would be played at the home of the higher seed, so Texas Vs. Boise State in Austin and Utah Vs. Texas Tech in Salt Lake City.
Once the wild card week is over, there would be 8 teams left. There would be two wild card winners, and the one with the original higher seed would become #7, the one with the lower original seed becoming #8. The first round would also be played at the home of the higher seed, so there would be no danger of playing in a half-empty stadium in the later rounds. For the sake of this example. say Texas beats Boise St. and Utah beats Texas Tech. Texas is still the #7 seed and Utah is #8, the same as before. The first round matchups would look like this:
1) Florida Vs. 8) Utah in Gainesville
2) Oklahoma Vs. 7) Texas in Norman
3) USC Vs. 6) Virginia Tech in Los Angeles
4) Penn State Vs 5) Cincinnati in University Park
The NCAA would have to make sure that the home team allots a larger percentage of the total seats in the stadium to the visitors, say, 20%, so the fans of the lower seeds can get tickets without too much trouble.
Again, just for the sake of the example, say that all of the higher seeds win. There would be two semifinal games, and the national championship game, which could be played at shifting sites around the country. The NCAA could pick two sites before the tournament starts and assign the two games to whichever sites make more geographical sense. Say that the two sites are Phoenix and Atlanta. Florida Vs. Penn State could be played in Atlanta and USC Vs. Oklahoma in Phoenix. The winner would then move on to the national championship in wherever, say, Houston. You have a national champion with no controversy. And the other bowl games would obviously be diminished, but they could have maybe 15 bowls that are played during the week so they don’t interfere with the tournament on saturdays.
Go Bears!
by RollOnYouBears667 on
Jan 3, 2009 12:04 PM PST
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Looks good to me
But I’d prefer to see the semifinals played in home stadiums, too, just like the NFL and the lower divisions of college football. And play the semifinals before the bowl season, which would free up all but the two finalists to go to a season-ending bowl. The bowls and a multi-round NCAA playoff that is completely independent of those bowls can coexist. Indeed, it’s really the same exact system that’s in place now, but rather than relying on polls and computers to place the teams, we have a post-season, on-the-field competition do it for us. What a concept.
Go Bears!
by California Pete on
Jan 3, 2009 12:18 PM PST
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I’d like to see crappy teams like Va Tech and Cincy completely disqualified, or at the very least not get an automatic home game. If they’re the bottom two teams in the BCS rankings then they should go on the road and try to win, even if they win their awful conferences.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 3, 2009 1:04 PM PST
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Both Virginia Tech and Cincinnati are playing on the road in my proposal. The conference champions do get automatic byes into the first round, but Va. Tech is playing USC in Los Angles and Cincinnati is playing Penn St. in University Park. I personally think that Oregon, Oklahoma State, TCU, and Boise could beat both of those teams, and none of them have tourney berths, so the system isn’t perfect. I think the only truly fair system without controversy would be a 32 team tournament, but that isn’t possible for a million reasons.
Go Bears!
by RollOnYouBears667 on
Jan 3, 2009 1:15 PM PST
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Just from looking at it
I think at most a playoff could include 8 teams. Your plan seems the most practical, if there is enough money that would drive this system to higher profits than the BCS.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 4, 2009 1:06 AM PST
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Personally I think an 8 team bracket or a 6 team bracket ala the and NFL with two first round byes would be my preference, with a committee ala the basketball tourney to pick the teams involved.
I have no problem leaving out a V. Tech or a Cincinnati that lose multiple games.
And like others, I don’t see how the bowls are devalued. I think my interest this year’s Emerald Bowl would be consistent regardless of any BCS/Playoff events happening later.
by norcalnick on
Jan 3, 2009 4:30 PM PST
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what about the current regular season being the best regular season of any sport? Would that be the same with all of these playoff/bowl games? Will there be the same passion?
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are not necessarily those of the California Golden Blogs or any of its authors. However, they are just as important as the opinions of any of the authors. And doubly so as compared to TwistNHook!
by carp on
Jan 4, 2009 7:09 AM PST
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There are a lot of bowl games now. Seems to have plenty of passion.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 4, 2009 9:25 AM PST
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Bowl/Play-off combo platter
Trying to maximize this function:
1. retain interest in traditional bowls, and bowl rivalries
2. establish manageable play-off system
it always seemed to me you could do something like this:
1. Use the traditional bowl system of minor bowls leading up to just the big games on New Years Day (and none after)
2. Have four New Years Day games:
- Rose Bowl (Pac 10 champ v. Big 10 champ)
- Sugar Bowl (SEC champ v. some worthy challenger)
- Cotton Bowl (Big 12 champ v. some worthy challenger)
- Orange Bowl (ACC champ v. Big East champ)
Then have a two round play-off, e.g., Rose v. Cotton winners and Sugar v. Orange winners in first round (location: the two sides negotiate a neutral site approximately half way between!), then national championship game the next week in Arizona. Do it for five years and see if ACC and Big East (and Big 10?) can raise their game.
Virtues:
- Should be done by the middle of January, so football is still relevant and spring semester classes are not compromised.
- Only two more games, so players should be able to stay sharp and should get enough fans to attend.
- Retains impetus for teams to play well every week to qualify (only two wild cards for non conference champions, so you can lose either one non-conference or conference game to a good team and still keep hope alive).
- Leaves room for independents and non-BCS schools to participate, but they have to schedule tough opponents to merit one of the two wild card slots.
- Keeps all the rest of the bowls (and the money and fan interest) intact for those not in the play-off.
- Preserves the hallowed traditions of conference bowl rivalries (I think this is mainly a Pac-10/Big-10 interest).
- Even if seeding is perseved as biased toward Big 12 or SEC, any team wanting to be champion can’t complain about having to win to advance (and who cares about second place – this is to decide champions not national rankings)
Simulation: This year it would have had
- Rose Bowl (USC v. Penn State)
- Sugar Bowl (Florida v. Texas)
- Cotton Bowl (Oklahoma v. one of Alabama/Utah/Texas Tech/Boise State)
- Orange Bowl (Virginia Tech v. Cincinnati)
Alabama probably would have gotten it under most schemes, and that would have been painful for Utah and Boise State, but the lesson for them is schedule better teams so some one-loss power school can’t edge them out in the future.
Va Tech and Cincinnati seem a little out of place, but those conferences have had some decent teams and this system would put pressure on them to improve and merit their position or get shuffled out in five years. Moreover, college football probably needs the east coast to stay relevant for all the externalities.
by Jake88 on
Jan 4, 2009 11:18 AM PST
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How would Utah schedule any better than Oregon State and Michigan? They did play Utah St., but that’s a rivalry game. It’s certainly better than Alabama, who only played one non-conference team (Clemson) with a pulse. Alabama only played one more bowl team than Utah did.
It wouldn’t be unreasonable to say that Alabama has a better resume and deserves a spot over Utah, but it’s not because Utah scheduled a bunch of patsies. If Michigan had a typical Michigan year Utah would have had one of the strongest non-conference schedules in the country.
The bottom line is that I dislike any playoff system that leaves out an unbeaten team with a legit schedule for a 3 or 4 loss team from a “power conference.”
by norcalnick on
Jan 4, 2009 3:48 PM PST
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Again, the issue I have with trying to retain the bowl structure is will fans be willing to book their tickets to as many as three neutral sites over one month? It seems like you could have disappointing ticket sales and low turnout for several of these games, or maybe even depreciating value for the games as they go along because people can’t afford the massive travel costs of booking bowl tickets barely in advance of flight reservations.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 5, 2009 2:00 AM PST
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These are both legitimate concerns, and I think a reasonable accommodation could be found.
- For the Utah situation, you could establish a rule that if a team in undefeated and has beaten x number of teams from one of the celebrated 6 conferences, it has priority for one of the two at large berths. Or you could say under those conditions, and if one of the conference champions had more than two losses, that team replaces the unworthy conference champion. Or you could specify priority for teams that defeat bowl teams, or travel to ranked schools, and so on. Or you could dump the Big East (which may make the most sense if West Virginia does not bounce back). So a minor tweak could clear the way.
- For the fear of empty seats, you could seed the winners of the January 1 bowls and play the games at the higher seed’s home. It could mean traveling three times in three weeks, if the team is not given a home game. But the first game would be a marque bowl in a warm city that is known a month in advance, each individual game could be the last (so the fans could be strung along), and the second game you could fill the seats with boosters from the home school (and only limited tix would be available for the visiting school anyway). I suspect you could fill a stadium for a national championship game, date and place known well in advance. In fact, major advertisers would probably buy all the tickets if they were allowed to.
Again, it seems to me that prior to the BCS we had a system where with a rich bowl tradition but frustration on identifying a national champion. The BCS system has been an improvement on the national champion resolution, but not a whole lot, along with a weakening of the bowl tradition (but lots more bowls and lots more money all around.) The combo platter could strengthen both the bowl tradition and improve the identification of a national champion, and even generate more money by creating the extra three games, even if it is not a perfect fit.
Did not mean to take up some much space with this idea. I don’t follow this enough to know how likely it is to happen, and there probably are better ideas, but an improvement seems apparent on superficial logic.
by Jake88 on
Jan 5, 2009 11:27 AM PST
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I’m not sure about how people would feel about traveling to a neutral site, then traveling back home, then traveling back to another neutral site. The only way I think this could work is if the first two games involved homefield.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 5, 2009 1:00 PM PST
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There is the possibility of assigning proxy sites to NFL stadiums maybe (like Big 12 South teams would have homefield at a site closer to their college like Dallas or San Antonio or Houston, Big 12 North in Kansas City or St. Louis, Big Ten teams in Chicago or Indianapolis or Cleveland, Pac-10 teams in Seattle, SF or San Diego) where there’s a good possibility of selling out tickets to regional fans as well as interested yuppies.
by BearsNecessity on
Jan 5, 2009 1:03 PM PST
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Actually...
I believe it’s time to end the reign of the BCS and switch to a full-blown playoff. How could you justify not giving an undefeated Utah squad or a one-loss USC team that many believe is the best in the country a shot at the national title?
- Amitabh Bachchan
I have no new information on that at this time.
by Rishi on
Jan 7, 2009 7:30 AM PST
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