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Riley vs. Longshore - My Take

After reading Danzig's excellent statistical analysis posted here and commentary on Glenn Dickey's surprisingly informative article posted by Hydro, I can't help but feel compelled to give my opinion on the subject. We're less than a month away from Cal football and I'm getting excited just thinking about it. For the first time in seven months my dad and I reignited the Longshore/ Riley debate.

I think the main difference between the Longshore camp and the Riley camp on this site is how one approaches football. Those who support Longshore point primarily to statistics which reflect his talent. I have to admit, after reading Danzig's post I was shocked at how well Longshore played in certain games. I thought Dickey's piece was particularly illuminating in the sense that it illustrates how Longshore obviously takes a technical approach to the game. His instinct is to check all five options as he searches for the hole that must exist in the defensive scheme. When he succeeds it's perfection (ie. offensive stats that are off the charts; see early 2007). When he fails it results in sacks and injuries. Besides being a classy guy (from everything I've heard), this must be why Tedford loves coaching him. He's the perfect student.

However, although Longshore is obviously very intelligent and has a strong understanding of the game, this is in fact his biggest weakness. He plays football like it's a video game when in fact football is something else. I played football in high school on the offensive line. I suffered from slow white man's syndrome and while I wasn't the biggest kid or the strongest kid, I was a decent player because I knew the play book inside and out. I understood how to operate with technical and tactical precession. Look at any intelligence survey from the NFL and you'll find that o-linemen are at the top. With that said, I was an absolute mess on defense. I spent my freshman year of high school as a third string middle linebacker and when I got in the game I was confused. My brain needs a strategy and I lacked the ability to read and react to what was happening. I was incapable of forgetting everything from practice and just hitting someone. To me, that has always been Nate's biggest problem. When a play goes wrong he's constantly thinking about what could have been improved. Perhaps the receiver should have run the route differently, or maybe he should have stepped out of the pocket sooner. It's all technical analysis. That's not playing football but rather it is thinking about football. Had Nate just reacted  to the situation he might have made a first down. Watch any Longshore game and when a play goes wrong you can see the focus on technical mistakes in his eyes as he politely tries to communicate to his teammates or Tedford what went afoul. The kid thinks too much.

So why Riley? Well, look at the Dickey article. Riley will look to option 1, and option 2, and then he looks to make his own play. That's what my coaches used to call "reading and reacting." The best football players learn the plays but understand that the game is technical only in a limited sense. This isn't Madden football and no play is going to work every time. Although I respect it, that's why statistical analysis is so silly in football. You can complete every pass on first and second down but miss every pass on third down and yet you'll still have a 66% completion rate. We all know that the game is determined by four or five big plays. Consistency is a factor, but is basically irrelevant in a close college football game. You only have to deliver on those important plays.

Nate's a nice kid but he doesn't have "it." There's a difference between being able to throw a sixty yard pass from your knees and leading men. Let's watch Aaron Rodgers this year. The ESPN pundits think he's going to be a disaster. I think they'll be in for a shock. As for Kevin, he blew one of the biggest games in Cal history and yet came back and won the bowl game against Air Force. The kid is a winner. Nate is a prodigy who would make a great offensive coordinator and maybe a decent backup in the NFL. My hunch is that Tedford sees Nate as what he could have been had he had the pure athletic talent. That's why he's so loyal to Nate.

-The Guy Who Used to Post as "Ted" on the Old Site

 

 

The opinions expressed in a FanPost are not necessarily those of the California Golden Blogs or any of its authors. However, they are just as important as the opinions of any of the authors. And triply so as compared to TwistNHook!

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Doesn’t have “it”? Doesn’t have what? A power level over 9000?

You don’t need a QB to be a great leader. Peyton Manning is probably the same breed of QB as Longshore—an efficient analyzer of rutes, a great arm and a plethora of receivers to choose from. He usually makes intelligent decisions, and his offenses are always among the best in the league.

However, he doesn’t necessarily inspire confidence in you as a fan because he’s suffered through so many weak playoff performances. Doesn’t make him a bad player, and it didn’t stop his team from winning a title. Other players can step up. It’s a big team.

by BearsNecessity on Aug 2, 2008 10:40 PM PDT   0 recs

the definition of it.

“It” is an exciting new g-string which zap its wearer with high voltage, when shivers are detected. That elevates the level of testosterone in the body which enables the wearer to display manly man virtues.

I've got enough man-love for Longshore and Riley.

by Jan K Oski on Aug 3, 2008 9:31 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Peyton Manning is a good comparison and I agree that many teams win championships without having a great quarterback. It seems like the SEC formula is solid defense, a good running game, and senior leadership. My view of the Tedford strategy is that part of the way we bridge the talent gap to USC is by having a really good quarterback to the lead the team. Then again, I made that determination by looking at many esoteric qualities such as “it,” several of which I’m not sure are possible to explain in words.

by The Hombre on Aug 3, 2008 12:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

so if Longshore is in the Peyton Manning mold of intelligent, efficient quarterbacks, what is Riley? it seems to me like your argument is that Riley is the sort of instinctual gunslinger who ‘just wins’. maybe he makes mistakes, or doesn’t go through as many progressions as he should, but his football improv skills more than makes up for that. did i get that right?

if that’s case, perhaps we could say that Riley is a QB in the Brett Favre mold. man, Favre threw a lot of interceptions, but he also won a ton of games with his improvised downfield passing. this is not of course to say that Kevin Riley is the next Brett Favre, only that the little we’ve seen of him seems to imply that that’s his style of play.

if we accept both of these comparisons, i believe it would now be relevant to point out that Peyton Manning and Brett Favre each have a Super Bowl ring. when it comes to quarterbacking, there’s more than one way to skin a cat.

So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!

by ragnarok on Aug 3, 2008 5:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ironically, when it comes to cats, there’s only one way to skin them.

I kissed Dumpster Muffin and I liked it. The taste of her hippie chapped lips.

by Maharg on Aug 4, 2008 1:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Ironically, when it comes to cats, there’s only one way to skin them.

That’s right: alive.

Kidding kidding. I like cats. We already have our hands full with the tree sitters. We don’t need PETA throwing red paint at us.

Seriously, though. Boiling makes the skin peel of with ease.

by Berkelium97 on Aug 4, 2008 1:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

...and now i know...

thanks guys!

So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!

by ragnarok on Aug 4, 2008 2:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And knowing is half the battle...

... GI JOE!!

(bonus points to anyone who can tell me what the other half of the battle is)

I kissed Dumpster Muffin and I liked it. The taste of her hippie chapped lips.

by Maharg on Aug 4, 2008 2:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is the correct answer ‘killing’?

by CalBandGreat on Aug 4, 2008 2:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

winning?
killing the opposing forces?
boiling their cats?

by Berkelium97 on Aug 4, 2008 2:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Porkchop sandwiches?

by Spazzy Mcgee on Aug 4, 2008 3:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Even though it’s too early, I would compare Riley to Favre or Steve Young. They’re all around 6’2, 220 and are mobile quarterbacks with decent arms. I’m not much of a Favre fan, but I recall that when he was in the business of winning and losing Superbowls (remember, he ran into John Elway and Terrell Davis the second time) he would scramble and pass/run for a first down much like Young did.

It seems like Favre has only been doing his “scramble 10-15 yards around the field, throw off his back foot across his body thirty yards” routine for the past five years. The only reason he could get away with it is because by that point he was “Brett Favre” and his no-name coaches couldn’t do anything to control him. I doubt Mike Holmegren, who coached Favre to both Super Bowl appearances, would have put up with his silly gunslinging antics.

by The Hombre on Aug 4, 2008 4:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like Riley, i think he is going to be Cal’s QB1 for a couple years, but let’s pause before comparing him to Steve Young or Brett Favre. First of all, unlike Young and Longshore, Riley is not Mormon. Second, Riley has yet to whine like an entitled brat like Brett Favre. Seriously though, there is not nearly enough data on Riley to make this sort of comparison.

http://sportingcontrarian.wordpress.com/

by BeastMode on Aug 4, 2008 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, but this is a sports blog and we still have a month to kill until Michigan St. I’ll take it one step further and say that Riley will be better than Young and Favre. . . combined!

by The Hombre on Aug 4, 2008 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like your gumption, The Hombre. You have a good supply of quality gumption.

"Save The Oaks: Overthrow Capitalism" said Dumpster Muffin sanguinely

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Aug 4, 2008 5:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree that part of the blame for lack of leadership should be on Nate. I also agree that there are a lot of players on the team and that weaker QB play was only part of the equation last year. I’d point to TOs and poor D before QB play.

by OskiMonsta on Aug 3, 2008 5:09 AM PDT   0 recs

I ran into Cignetti on my morning jog, and I happened to have a copy of your post for reflection.

I handed him the post, and he skimmed through it. Then, somewhere in the middle of it, a fire was set ablaze from within. He proceeded to throw it on the ground, urinate on it, lite a match, and it went up in flames! Basically, the man’s urine is flammable, so be careful, Hombre! Oh yeah, I woke up a few minutes later.

I've got enough man-love for Longshore and Riley.

by Jan K Oski on Aug 3, 2008 9:27 AM PDT   0 recs

Duddde Jan

You mean you dreamt of a middle aged man whipping it out… and you watched intently as he finished… then you watched him set a non-flammable liquid alight. You said you woke a few mins later… what happened in those few mins? hmm.

by danzig on Aug 3, 2008 11:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Now, now, danzig...

Stop projecting!

I've got enough man-love for Longshore and Riley.

by Jan K Oski on Aug 3, 2008 4:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow

So you hated my post so much that you printed it out to carry it with you while jogging . . . but that was just a dream. Wow, I’m flattered that my writing could anger anyone to that degree, but I guess that’s part of what makes the internet so fun.

by The Hombre on Aug 3, 2008 12:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That’s nothing! You should see what Olsonist does to Twist’s posts.

I kissed Dumpster Muffin and I liked it. The taste of her hippie chapped lips.

by Maharg on Aug 4, 2008 1:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It ain't hate, Hombre

Dreams are of the unconscious realm and form connections of memories that the conscious would not. So, anger doesn’t have anything to do with it. While this background protects me from receiving a restraining order, my main point was to show that Cignetti and Tedford will determine the QB, and your analysis will not have any effect on their decision, especially, if you can’t express the IT. Sorry for being the bringer of bad news, but those are the facts. Just the facts.

I've got enough man-love for Longshore and Riley.

by Jan K Oski on Aug 3, 2008 5:16 PM PDT   0 recs

my main point was to show that Cignetti and Tedford will determine the QB, and your analysis will not have any effect on their decision, especially, if you can’t express the IT.

Really? I thought Tedford was checking the fan posts daily for feedback to help him make his decision. I mean, this is like the most popular Cal sports blog and coaching is an egalitarian profession by its nature. Shocking. Anyone have JT’s email address so I can send him the link to my post?

by The Hombre on Aug 4, 2008 4:49 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I wonder what would happen if Tedford allowed comments on his blog.

"Save The Oaks: Overthrow Capitalism" said Dumpster Muffin sanguinely

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Aug 4, 2008 5:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

probably the same thing that would have happened had Longshore allowed comments on his blog.

So, basically, you gotta Go Bears!

by ragnarok on Aug 4, 2008 5:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

A short preview

That’s what she said.

Nailed It!

Somebody’s Bitter!

Random drivel from Olsonist

I kissed Dumpster Muffin and I liked it. The taste of her hippie chapped lips.

by Maharg on Aug 4, 2008 5:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You forgot “I want to punch you in the hair.”

"Save The Oaks: Overthrow Capitalism" said Dumpster Muffin sanguinely

www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com

by TwistNHook on Aug 4, 2008 5:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You have to audition to comment on Tedford’s blog. It’s like Deadspin.

by The Hombre on Aug 4, 2008 6:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn’t this pretty much the same debate between the likes of Tony Larussa and sabermatricians? And, in that debate, in diagnosing a problem and evaluating performance, I always tend to lean toward the data – the data does not lie.

In this case, I’m not sure there is a real data discrepancy and in all likelihood there just isn’t enough data on Riley to compare via statistics versus Longshore. Riley has faced a tough OSU and a not so tough Air Force. I give Riley a ton of credit for battling back in both games, but let’s get realistic here about his bowl game performance: a) it was against a slow and weak Air Force defense, and b) Riley was the beneficiary of having Desean and Robert because they were suspended or whatever in the first quarter.

In the end, all Tedford and Cignetti have is past performance and how they compete in Spring Ball, I think a few too many of us are projecting based on assumptions and some mysterious “it” that is frankly arguing without a basis.

http://sportingcontrarian.wordpress.com/

by BeastMode on Aug 3, 2008 8:09 PM PDT   0 recs

Amen brotha bear!

Every Longshore Hater I’ve met in person including a couple of good friends need to drop it a level in their expectations of their past-times. I think they’re looking for fulfillment in the wrong place. And, they get so worked up in their emotions that they’re completely unreasonable and condesceding to other’s with different perspectives. Plus, they can’t take a joke about their opinion which makes it even worse. Thank you, God for the sensible leaders of California Golden Blogs. Long live, the Fab-5! Go Bears!

I've got enough man-love for Longshore and Riley.

by Jan K Oski on Aug 4, 2008 6:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

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