Jahvid Best vs. Jacquizz Rodgers
So, I've been debating with the fellas over at Building the Dam as to which running back may be better.
Funny, it actually started out as me saying they (Beaver fans) should not take away from what Best was able to accomplish. Then it turned into a "let's defend Rodgers" session. lol
Anyhow, I think this is one of the better debates of the 2008 football season.
I wrote an article on my own site, Pac10Rivalry.com (you'll see it if you visit) and want to get a perspective of some Cal guys/gals.
The BtD post can be found here just for reference (not to jump in and bash).
I think Quizz is very deserving of the Offensive Player of the Year award, however, I believe Best was the better overall back and was every bit as deserved.
What is your take on Best vs. Rodgers?
The opinions expressed in a FanPost are, in every way, reflective of the opinions of every California Golden Blogs Marshawnthusiast. Moreover, they are reflective of every employee of SBNation, including Tyler "Blez" Bleszinski.
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40 comments
Comments
I don’t want to stop the discussion here at all. For the sake of completeness, though, I do offer our first discussion on this matter, found here.
And our second discussion on this matter, found here.
I also reiterate my statistical analysis of their Pac10 only common opponents:
Jahvid Best: Overall 174 for 1394
MSU 24 for 111
Md 10 for 25
CSU 11 for 85
Pac10 Only 129 for 1173 for an average of 9.09 (over a yard higher than his actual average, which is interesting)
Quizz: Overall 259 for 1253
PSU 22 for 99
Hawii 26 for 110
Utah 25 for 101
Pac10 Only 186 for 943 for an average of 5.06
And due to the legally mandated Fairness Doctrine, include Rishi’s counter statistical analysis:
Best v/ Quizz YPC
Wazzou: 14.3 v 7.3 Big Deal
ASU: DNP v 4.4
Zona: 6.7 v 5 (only four carries)
UCLA: 6.8 v 4.6
Oregon: 5.8 v DNP
USC: 2.3 v 5.0 (THERE WE GO)
Furd: 10.6 v 3.9 (Quizz’s first game)
UDub: 16.4 v 4.7
And, for fun, let’s pretend Maryland and PSU were the same team:
OOC: 2.5 v 4.5
Finally, to save you guys time of scrolling those through hundreds of posts, I offer the following synopses of the two camps’ seeming arguments:
Bestites: “Looking over the course of the entire year, Jahvid Best not only has more yards, but also over 3 more yards per carry. This is such an extreme differential that it counters the fact that Best racked up HUGE amounts of yards against weak opponents such as UDub and WSU. As a final note, he only played 1 half pretty much against those opponents, so it also sort of evens out AND Quizz got to play them, too, so he had his chance to rack up huge amounts of yards.”
Quizznos: “We take nothing away from the great year that Best had. But look at some key games, such as Maryland and USC. Best was held to minimal yards. Certainly, Best is more of a home run threat, but Quizz is the more consistent back. Even though Best has more ypc, some of that stems more from huge 60 yard runs than actually getting 8 yards on each and every run. I’d rather have the bruising consistency of Quizz than the explosiveness of Best.”
That said, do not hesitate to continue this conversation and I’m sure that this in no way undercuts our answer to the Roundtable when it comes out on Thursday.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 8:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think I jinxed myself by gunning for Quizz
Everything went wrong in lab over the last 3 hours. I’ve been at work since 9. I wanna go home.
Sheriff of the Welcome Team
In Spite of Twist!
by Spazzy Mcgee on Dec 9, 2008 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was probably all that spite that got ya.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh, that’s been me for the past 3 weeks. But have no fear, CGB is here!
by BleedinBlue on Dec 9, 2008 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
got bit by the shitty experiment bug, heh? I had that happen the other day with the Extraction from Hell. Anytime you end up busting out charcoal, celite, and mag sulfate…you know you’re in for a long evening.
What got met through it? Playing The Who’s Baba O’Riley as loud as my computer could handle….
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 7:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, nothing could be more pertinent after the insane discussion of today.
by Rishi on Dec 9, 2008 9:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
And weve got a post on this planned for Thursday, too.
IT NEVER ENDS!
PS I look forward to your Best v. Quizz DBD tomorrow.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is dependent upon me getting to work on time tomorrow AND my boss not having me do something immediately.
Should be fine, hopefully.
by Rishi on Dec 9, 2008 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If I wake up in the morning and get out here (prolly about 730) and dont see anything yet my neurosis will most likely cause me to do one. Just so you are aware. Gotta beat me!
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Le sigh, fine. I’ll at least put up a placeholder to show you I’ve started one.
by Rishi on Dec 9, 2008 9:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A placeholder? You can do that?
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Best just makes the big plays"
“and is not consistent”
That’s one of the arguments I’ve heard over and over as to why Quizz is supposedly better!
However, in my research (and I wrote this on my site) I found that Best had 44 carries of 10+ yards and Quizz had 41 carries of 10+ yards. So that theory goes out the window, in my opinion. And remember, Best did this with far fewer carries.
by Pac10Rivalry on Dec 9, 2008 9:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Just to have a specific link.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2008 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how many runs of over 35 yards for Quizz…zero.
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 7:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, thats not very good at all.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 10, 2008 7:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, look who has a newsfeed connected to CGB!
http://caldanceteam.berkeley.edu/index.php5
Why does this seem like a bad idea?
by Rishi on Dec 9, 2008 9:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
holla!
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All the Oregon State guys are stinky Beavers. Best >>> Quizz. Without a doubt, Best will get drafted higher than Quizz.
I say, forget the statistics. Just watch the film. Best is clearly better.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Dec 9, 2008 10:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Best is better in the open field, but he relies heavily on big run blocks to get him going. He’ll get you quick scores, but he’s less likely to be a down and distance power back. He is the closest thing to Reggie Bush you’ll see, although Bush was one of the best college receiver backs ever and Best is still miles away from doing anything there.
Rodgers can do more with a weaker o-line because he’s more elusive to defenders, so he can slip through smaller blocks and do more in a power run format. Unfortunately for his long-term capabilities Riley tends to overuse him.
Of course if you factor in Best’s receiving and return abilities it’s less of a contest.
by BearsNecessity on Dec 9, 2008 11:58 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
rec'd for actual intelligent commentary that I completely agree with.
I still say that Best>Quizz though.
Although… Longshore>Best>Quizz.
However… Mansion>>>>Longshore>Best>Quizz.
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by HydroTech on Dec 10, 2008 4:02 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
i would like to see best better utilized in the passing game…
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As for the argument about Pac-10 player of the year, I’m fine with ceding it to the midget. He was responsible for the signature Pac-10 victory of the year vs. USC.
Best’s playmaking ability is great, but he rolled much of it up on terrible defenses—subtract the two Washington games and he averaged less than a hundred yards a game.
by BearsNecessity on Dec 10, 2008 12:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yet, that is also a function of not having a lot of carries. Only once did best have 20+ carries. Best split time, to some degree with Vereen, a decent back in his own right.
I don’t believe I’ve argued Quizz shouldn’t be considered for Offensive POY. He was absolutely vital in OSU’s biggest win of the year. But, looking at their common opponents, and taking away the outliers, they performed similarly, and Best did it with less carries, had as many runs of 10+ yards as Quizz, and performed better in short-yardage.
by BeastMode on Dec 10, 2008 6:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and performed better in short-yardage
There’s the key. The Quizz lovers have been arguing that Quizz is the more consistent, the more likely of the two to get 4 yards when you need it. If that’s true, then why does Best perform better in short yardage situations?
Do you have any stats to back up this claim?
www.californiagoldenblogs.com
by CBKWit on Dec 10, 2008 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From AtQ:
For me, it comes down to options on offense and I think Best gives you the most opportunities on later downs. Best averages 7.6 yards on 1st down and 9.91 yards on second down. He picked up the 1st down on 63% of his chances at 3 yards or less. Quizz averages 4.97 and 4.89 yards per attempt on 1st and second downs respectively and averages 60% on his chances on 3rd down with 3 yards or less.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 10, 2008 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I propose all CGBers post with “j-” in front of their screen name when posting at AtQ
For example:
j-carp
j-TwistNHook
j-Maharg
j-Rishi
j-ragnarok
etc
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think we should use a different letter or symbol. Like ñ or Þ.
The Draddy Mack will make you jump jump
by Maharg on Dec 10, 2008 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
by JShufelt on Dec 10, 2008 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you have to be j-JShufelt
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When he is here, hes just Shufelt. And when hes at BtD, hes cocksucking motherfuckingelt.
Please disregard the above ramblings as those of a clearly delusional fan.
www.CaliforniaGoldenBlogs.com
by TwistNHook on Dec 10, 2008 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
o…that works too
The Maharg makes me look like an idiot.
by carp on Dec 10, 2008 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that’s how it’s spelled…
It's spelled "S-H-U-C-F-A-D-O-D-N-C-S"
Please, ask me about CFADODNCS.
by JShufelt on Dec 10, 2008 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it has more to do with the “How did they perform against top defenses?”
Best’s ceiling seems higher, but his floor is also lower.
Screw that, metaphors are stupid.
by Rishi on Dec 10, 2008 9:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have no problem with Quizz being Pac-10 POTY
I respect the hell out of Quizz. And I don’t relish the thought of us playing against him for the next 3 years. But I’ll take our guy — I think Best is best. The guy is a threat to house it at any time. I’ll grant that Best did not bring the A-game in high profile games, while Quizz did. (Which is why I can live with Quizz being POTY, notwithstanding Best blowing him away in all rushing statistical categories.) But I like having Best’s multiple dimensions — rushing, receiving, returning — and his KA BOOM capability.
Not that anyone needs to be a Best apologist, but let’s face it — we had OL problems this year. If Best were working with the O-lines we had in ’04, ’05, or ’06, we might have been looking at at a JJ type of year.
Realizing just how much Aaron Rodgers spoiled us.
by Ohio Bear on Dec 10, 2008 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You know...
For all that’s said about our o-line, we still have Mack Draddy. I don’t want to imagine next year without him.
by Rishi on Dec 10, 2008 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for all the o line issues
and Mack moving on,
I’m not really worried about the o-line. lots of guys got good experience, and for good o-line play that is very very important.
Go Bears Go
by Rocksanddirt on Dec 10, 2008 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Best is the better college back
but I think Quizz is the better NFL back.
The ability to evade tacklers in the first 5 yards is far more important for an NFL back than the ability to evade tacklers beyond 5 yards. Frank Gore doesn’t have game-changing speed, but he’s very difficult to tackle. Quizz is similar in that respect— he’s so small the defenders can’t get low enough to bring him down.
Your 2008 Athletics: It's Nothing Personal.
by PaulThomas on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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